Cops chase bike, cops abort chase, bike crashes, and some Nandos loving...

[Rhinosaur]

Really?
Your definition of due process is severely flawed, or your interpretation is wrong.

i understand that generally the sentiment is against hoon law seizures, as a person is significantly penalised prior to the matter being proved in court.

however; my point was alluring to the fact that hoon seizures are lawful (if not always deemed fair), and legislation supports that, therefore "due process" is adhered to. My understanding of "due process" is based on what is legislated, not "what i think is fair/due".

Its a matter of opinion i guess, as to what you mean by "due process".

[Rhinosaur]

I believe Goofy is pointing towards the hoon laws that allow cops to decide that you are going over the speed limit then punishment you by taking your bike without allowing you due process of having a judge decide your fate.

i get that, as above, my point is that seizure is lawful, and is in itself, following due process. so "due process" in this instance comes down to opinion.

[Shady7/8]

Sounds more like leaving the scene of an accident than an aborted chase.

Agreed

Yes I have, so yes i do.

And I can't think of a good reason as to why he ran, so yeah i'll jump to what i think is a safe conclusion.

I of course was kidding with the neck thing, but can't help at think he earnt those consequences.

Really kidding? Dude your initial response is always to wish death or significant harm on someone who does something you don't like.

You do NOT deserve to call yourself a rider. You are not one of us.

i understand that generally the sentiment is against hoon law seizures, as a person is significantly penalised prior to the matter being proved in court.

however; my point was alluring to the fact that hoon seizures are lawful (if not always deemed fair), and legislation supports that, therefore "due process" is adhered to. My understanding of "due process" is based on what is legislated, not "what i think is fair/due".

Its a matter of opinion i guess, as to what you mean by "due process".

Incorrect.
Due process is a legal phrase not subject to interpretation, so your opinion on it means SFA, as does mine (however mine is in alignment with the legal intepretation)

Whilst it may be legislated, it breaches the fundamentals of our Legal system, separation of powers. The entire intent of separation is to prevent abuse of power.
Give cops with absolutely no training in law or application or creation of, and you have abuse of power. They start to believe they have the right to hand out punishment on the roadside.
This is not their role. Their role is to capture persons alledged to have broken the law. It is not their place to determine if they have broken the law, nor their place to hand out penalties, nor punishment for same.

[Rhinosaur]

Agreed


Really kidding? Dude your initial response is always to wish death or significant harm on someone who does something you don't like.

You do NOT deserve to call yourself a rider. You are not one of us.



Incorrect.
Due process is a legal phrase not subject to interpretation, so your opinion on it means SFA, as does mine (however mine is in alignment with the legal intepretation)

Whilst it may be legislated, it breaches the fundamentals of our Legal system, separation of powers. The entire intent of separation is to prevent abuse of power.
Give cops with absolutely no training in law or application or creation of, and you have abuse of power. They start to believe they have the right to hand out punishment on the roadside.
This is not their role. Their role is to capture persons alledged to have broken the law. It is not their place to determine if they have broken the law, nor their place to hand out penalties, nor punishment for same.

in your opinion...

i appreciate your opinion though, i disagree for the most part though.

I am not one of "you?".

Who are you?

[Desmo]

i understand that generally the sentiment is against hoon law seizures, as a person is significantly penalised prior to the matter being proved in court.

however; my point was alluring to the fact that hoon seizures are lawful (if not always deemed fair), and legislation supports that, therefore "due process" is adhered to. My understanding of "due process" is based on what is legislated, not "what i think is fair/due".

Its a matter of opinion i guess, as to what you mean by "due process".

I think you meant "alluding", and due process has nothing to do with what we deem to be fair or not.
This may be of interesting reading to you. What it basically states is that there must be a process from arrest all the way through to conviction and you are essentially innocent until proven otherwise.
The Hoon law legislation removes this due process and allows the police to be judge and jury which is blatantly wrong.
It is not the Police's job to convict people.
As previously stated, your definition of due process is fundamentally flawed.

[Rhinosaur]

I think you meant "alluding", and due process has nothing to do with what we deem to be fair or not.
This may be of interesting reading to you. What it basically states is that there must be a process from arrest all the way through to conviction and you are essentially innocent until proven otherwise.
The Hoon law legislation removes this due process and allows the police to be judge and jury which is blatantly wrong.
It is not the Police's job to convict people.
As previously stated, your definition of due process is fundamentally flawed.

the seizure is not the penalty though.

[Barfridge]

the seizure is not the penalty though.

Of course it fucking is.
If you are found innocent do you walk free without having undergone any punishment? No
The 28 days of vehicle seizure is a fairly hefty punishment for an innocent person to undergo.

Are you compensated in any way as an innocent person for having undergone this? No.

[Shady7/8]

I'm a motorbike rider.


The only opinion in my statement above is that you do not deserve to call yourself a rider. The rest? Not opinion in any way - spend some time and do some research rather than simply spitting out the first bit of hate you find when you disagree.

Our legal system is founded on separation of powers - this is not opinion.

Police role is to apprehend, not punish or penalise - this again not opinion.

Sadly whilst you maintain your opinion(and others do as well) that the guy deserved to die for running, then we will continue to erode the firm foundings our system started from.

Yes it is people like yourself who encourage and accept the perversion of our legal system, whether by active support or simply by complacency.

[andymac]

I like the 'stash my bike' request. Once hidden, I can imagine the cops turning up to find an injured man lying in the street and the following conversation

Cop: Were you just riding a CBR250?
Rider: No
Cop: Why are you lying in the street?
Rider: I fell over ...
Cop: While wearing a motorcycle helmet?
Rider: I'm a bit clumsy ...
Cop: All right then Sir, mind how you go.

[Rhinosaur]

Of course it fucking is.
If you are found innocent do you walk free without having undergone any punishment? No
The 28 days of vehicle seizure is a fairly hefty punishment for an innocent person to undergo.

Are you compensated in any way as an innocent person for having undergone this? No.

Has this happened?

[Rhinosaur]

I'm a motorbike rider.


The only opinion in my statement above is that you do not deserve to call yourself a rider. The rest? Not opinion in any way - spend some time and do some research rather than simply spitting out the first bit of hate you find when you disagree.

Our legal system is founded on separation of powers - this is not opinion.

Police role is to apprehend, not punish or penalise - this again not opinion.

Sadly whilst you maintain your opinion(and others do as well) that the guy deserved to die for running, then we will continue to erode the firm foundings our system started from.

Yes it is people like yourself who encourage and accept the perversion of our legal system, whether by active support or simply by complacency.

All of which is still an opinion.

1. i ride, therefore i am a rider. Maybe not in your posse.
2. My point wasn;t that the kid should die, just that he is a piece of crap.
3. I dont necessarily agree with hoon seizures, but "the people" do, and it's the "peoples" community. BUt what pisses me off is when people clearly do the wrong thing, and the right thing happens to them, and people still sook about hoon seizures. these are the people we want off the road.

there are too many sympathisizers with oxygens thieves. i dont think i agree with the 45+ seizures, but these ones i do.

If you dont like something, act.

If not, post your objections here.

[Barfridge]

Has this happened?

Yes, it has

Lamborghini mechanic Leone Magistro beats 160km/h hoon charge | Perth Now

Even worse was that it was somebody else's car that was impounded, so a truly innocent person was punished, while the accused was also found not guilty.

Even better, the cops toasted the ECU in the car while trying to extract speed data from it:
Lamborghini impounded under 'hoon laws' | Lamborghini | Page 13 | Australian Owners Forum

Do you still support this law after all those fuckups?

[mantic]

Of course it fucking is.
If you are found innocent do you walk free without having undergone any punishment? No
The 28 days of vehicle seizure is a fairly hefty punishment for an innocent person to undergo.

Are you compensated in any way as an innocent person for having undergone this? No.

Bingo, the cops impounded my car twice unlawfully, as it was proved in court!

Did I get re-compense fo this? HELL NO! It is written in to law that there will be no compensation irrespective of fault...

I paid a high price lawyer to fight this, and even "he" couldn't get me compensation.

End result, both impounds wiped off my license, all monies returned for impound, and a measily $600 in damages to cover costs of documentation from DPI, police etc... To prove I had a license and my lawyers fee's paid.

Do I get those two months back without a vehicle? Loss of income due to said vehicle loss? NO! Bullshit laws with bullshit consequences... What happened to innocent until proven guilty? This country is going to shit with laws made and abuse of power rampant to the wrong law enforcement agencies!

Due process in this instance = Massive FAIL! and a breach of my rights...

Needless to say the cops leave me alone now. So I guess thats the only good thing to come out of this.

[Rhinosaur]

Yes, it has

Lamborghini mechanic Leone Magistro beats 160km/h hoon charge | Perth Now

Even worse was that it was somebody else's car that was impounded, so a truly innocent person was punished, while the accused was also found not guilty.

Even better, the cops toasted the ECU in the car while trying to extract speed data from it:
Lamborghini impounded under 'hoon laws' | Lamborghini | Page 13 | Australian Owners Forum

Do you still support this law after all those fuckups?

i remember that one. and i dont agree with seizing it in these circumstances, the mechanic should have been made to surrender his.

i think the power should exist, but greater discretion should be used. but you cant have your cake and eat it too.

[Desmo]

but you cant have your cake and eat it too.

And yet you are still trying.
So you agree with the erosion of due process except in certain circumstances?

[Rhinosaur]

And yet you are still trying.
So you agree with the erosion of due process except in certain circumstances?

your words.

i think the power should be there to act, with the autonomy to use discretion.

[Desmo]

But they did use discretion and took an innocent man's Lambo which you yourself said (your own words!).

i remember that one. and i dont agree with seizing it in these circumstances

So which is it, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Ferris]

I think we've found Gippo 2.0

[Rhinosaur]

But they did use discretion and took an innocent man's Lambo which you yourself said (your own words!).

So which is it, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

i don't believe discretion exists to NOT seize it.
i believe the power should exist, without the obligation to seize.

[edmands_3]

I know of someone who had his car wrongfully seized as well. He had a modded skyline with full engineers certificates, so the cops got annoyed that they couldn't find anything to yellow him for. So they sent him on his way, then pulled him up just around the next corner and said he spun his tyres and they were impounding his car. He took it to court and got off with the testimony of expert witnesses (car was 4wd, so not possible to spin the tyres at that speed). He didn't get his lawyers fee back, or get compensated for the time he didn't have his car or was in court, so now he is out of pocket to the tune of $20K (expensive lawyer I guess) when he did absolutely nothing wrong. I don't think the officers who booked him even got in trouble for it either.