No speedos?

[Murley]

So I was just thinking and the good news is I didn't think too long or hard about this.

A wizard rides into Perth one day on his bike and decides to cause a bit of mischief. He casts a spell over the whole of Perth rendering speedos on all vehicles absolutely useless - they just don't work. They show 0, they don't budge at all and there's nothing anyone can do about this - Perth's road users now have to drive around without knowing exactly what speed they're going for the rest of their lives. He didn't forget about GPS units either, they're stuffed.

What would happen? Would there be absolute and total chaos or would common sense prevail?

As I mentioned I didn't think too long about this so I hand it over to the great minds of PSB to speculate. I reckon it would be *fantastic*.

[darkfibre]

I read the title and thought great, no budgie smugglers.

[kapyong]

Not speedos but another idea

It was a typical Dutch small town in the North Friesland region, so dull it barely had a name. That is, until one day someone removed all the road signs.

We're not just talking about a few spare stop signs, either. They utterly destroyed every single aspect of traffic control on every single road. No lane markings, no lines and no signs. Only directional signs, 15 traffic lights (as opposed to the previous 5,000) and complete anarchy.

Except that, surprisingly, things didn't go Mad Max in a heartbeat. Instead of holding impromptu street racing competitions in spiky dune buggies, people actually slowed down and paid extra attention to their surroundings.
As a result, serious accidents took a dramatic nosedive. Pedestrian fatalities at some particularly risky junctions dropped to zero.

Yes, things got better.

The mysterious someone who had removed the signs had, of course, been the government. The whole thing was an experiment by town planners of the Friesland area who felt like seeing how pedestrians, drivers and cyclists would fare if left to their own devices. While the plan had all the makings of the biggest, most dickish practical joke in recorded history, the results were extremely positive. All stripped roads quickly became so safe that pedestrians could cross with their eyes closed.

The idea behind the experiment was the theory that relying on signs means you aren't paying as much attention to other people on the road. Remove the signs, and road users actually have to rely on their eyes and acknowledge each other. Also contributing to the safety is the fact that without signs to tell how fast to drive, town area traffic has instinctively slowed to an average 18 mph. The near-absence of traffic lights has helped traffic flow more smoothly, so the overall journey time doesn't slow down too much, either.

The idea of sign-free traffic is spreading through Europe like wildfire.
Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Belgium have all taken their first baby steps in removing theirs. Others still are considering giving it a go.

Mind you, the whole no-signs schtick only works on urban areas. We're no experts, but we're guessing the removal of, say, speed limits on a motorway would quickly result in Blues Brothers levels of wrecked vehicles.

Oh, wait, the autobahn replaced the speed limit with a request that drivers use common sense, and it has a better safety record than U.S. highways. And lest you think that wouldn't work in America, Montana has tried highways both with and without speed limits. The very presence of speed limits doubled the number of fatal car accidents. Again, traffic engineers have been fighting for higher or nonexistent speed limits on highways for years based on evidence that driving without speed limits makes us more cautious when it comes to lane changes and buckling up

[Murley]

Oh yeeeeahhh... maybe I should change that.

[Old frt]

I think it would be the same as when traffic lights are out. Everybody suddenly becomes more aware of their immediate environment, drives accordingly and actually look around to see what other road users are doing.
Result -- traffic flows smoothly less bingles. Win

[woody_5755]

Governments would go broke and society would collapse and decide that it should park it's car at low tide and get the kids and wait for sweet peace...

[Old frt]

I think it would be the same as when traffic lights are out. Everybody suddenly becomes more aware of their immediate environment, drives accordingly and actually look around to see what other road users are doing.
Result -- traffic flows smoothly, less bingles. Win

[dadwantsafyabl4de2]

All Perth road users know the approx speed of their vehicle by sight and sound and gear.

Silly wizard for not making cameras read 0.

[acegalaxi]

It would be great. Like above, evidence that it works exists!

[dadwantsafyabl4de2]

All Perth road users know the approx speed of their vehicle by sight and sound and gear.

Silly wizard for not making cameras read 0.

[Murley]

Seriously cool, Kapyong. I assume that is a true story - do you have a link?

[darkfibre]

Not speedos but another idea

It was a typical Dutch small town in the North Friesland region, so dull it barely had a name. That is, until one day someone removed all the road signs.

We're not just talking about a few spare stop signs, either. They utterly destroyed every single aspect of traffic control on every single road. No lane markings, no lines and no signs. Only directional signs, 15 traffic lights (as opposed to the previous 5,000) and complete anarchy.

Except that, surprisingly, things didn't go Mad Max in a heartbeat. Instead of holding impromptu street racing competitions in spiky dune buggies, people actually slowed down and paid extra attention to their surroundings.
As a result, serious accidents took a dramatic nosedive. Pedestrian fatalities at some particularly risky junctions dropped to zero.

Yes, things got better.

The mysterious someone who had removed the signs had, of course, been the government. The whole thing was an experiment by town planners of the Friesland area who felt like seeing how pedestrians, drivers and cyclists would fare if left to their own devices. While the plan had all the makings of the biggest, most dickish practical joke in recorded history, the results were extremely positive. All stripped roads quickly became so safe that pedestrians could cross with their eyes closed.

The idea behind the experiment was the theory that relying on signs means you aren't paying as much attention to other people on the road. Remove the signs, and road users actually have to rely on their eyes and acknowledge each other. Also contributing to the safety is the fact that without signs to tell how fast to drive, town area traffic has instinctively slowed to an average 18 mph. The near-absence of traffic lights has helped traffic flow more smoothly, so the overall journey time doesn't slow down too much, either.

The idea of sign-free traffic is spreading through Europe like wildfire.
Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Belgium have all taken their first baby steps in removing theirs. Others still are considering giving it a go.

Mind you, the whole no-signs schtick only works on urban areas. We're no experts, but we're guessing the removal of, say, speed limits on a motorway would quickly result in Blues Brothers levels of wrecked vehicles.

Oh, wait, the autobahn replaced the speed limit with a request that drivers use common sense, and it has a better safety record than U.S. highways. And lest you think that wouldn't work in America, Montana has tried highways both with and without speed limits. The very presence of speed limits doubled the number of fatal car accidents. Again, traffic engineers have been fighting for higher or nonexistent speed limits on highways for years based on evidence that driving without speed limits makes us more cautious when it comes to lane changes and buckling up

Stop and give way signs also let you know that there is an intersection, and we are trained to stop when there is a sign.

No stop sign = we are on a major road
Stop sign = we are about to cross a major road

I am very skeptical that accidents went down when the signs were removed (I call bullshit)

[Ferris]

Nah, I believe it. I'll find a youtube of something similar. Some poxy little wowser village in england where they removed a set of traffic lights and the above happened.

Part 2: Roads FiT for People - YouTube

I think this is the one.

[kapyong]

Seriously cool, Kapyong. I assume that is a true story - do you have a link?

Here 5 Simple Ideas That Could Make Travel (And Life) Way Easier | Cracked.com

[agrid]

Western Samoa or Solomon Islands or somewhere changed from driving on one side of the road to the other. Everyone expected carnage, especially as bus doors now opened onto the road. The didn't have an accident for weeks if I recall.

[Ken Oath]

I'm not Kapyong, but I have heard of this several times before. It's not bullshit.
A simple Google search revelas the following.

Drachten - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From that link, this quote.....

Recently, Drachten received international attention for a traffic experiment known as shared space, a concept pioneered by Hans Monderman. Almost all traffic lights and signs have been removed in the town's centre in an effort to improve traffic safety, based on the theory that drivers pay more attention to their surroundings when they cannot rely on strict traffic rules. Previously the town's centre had an average of 8 accidents per year. Since the new system was introduced in 2003, this has been reduced to effectively 0.^[1]
The German town of Bohmte adopted a similar scheme in September 2007

And this link....

Brake the road safety charity: Naked Roads

I recommend reading the whole article, it shows that deatsh at soem intersections have been eliminated. Fact.

What effect have naked roads had on road safety?

The removal of signs and road markings has led to an improvement of casualty figures in parts of Holland, Denmark and Sweden. In Christiansfeld, the number of casualties fell from three per year to zero following the implementation of the naked road. [10] It is believed that the uncertainty of who has the right of way leads to reduced speeds and improved safety. [11] As seen in the above case studies, naked roads can have a positive effect in some circumstances, but it should not be assumed that the concept would work in every situation.

And another link proving it's not bullshit...

The Wilson Quarterly: The Traffic Guru by Tom Vanderbilt

A year after the change, the results of this “extreme makeover” were striking: Not only had congestion decreased in the intersection—buses spent less time waiting to get through, for example—but there were half as many accidents, even though total car traffic was up by a third. Students from a local engineering college who studied the intersection reported that both drivers and, unusually, cyclists were using signals—of the electronic or hand variety—more often. They also found, in surveys, that residents, despite the measurable increase in safety, perceived the place to be more dangerous. This was music to Monderman’s ears. If they had not felt less secure, he said, he “would have changed it immediately.”

In essence, the more you treat people like idiots, the more they behave that way.

[donkeyboy]

Careful what you wish for.

When drivers have to keep an eye out for potential obstacles and casualties because there are no lines, traffic lights or lane markings they automatically slow down to below 20mph...

...He pointed out that research on the Continent had shown that where all vehicles slowed down to around 18 mph traffic flowed more freely and was safer than if it was stop-start between traffic lights, where motorists were tempted to speed for short distances and also to shoot red signals.

... even blind people can just step safely out into the street - because traffic is moving so slowly it can react quickly to any obstacle.

That's approx. 30kph.

Fuck That.

[Murley]

Cheers, glad to see some evidence of it working. Drove home today in gf's car and thought it would be a great step to tape over the speedo and just not worry about it - just worry about what's actually happening on the road. Very liberating but then again, I'm a total hoon who pays very little regard to what's showing on the speedo anyway. I just don't want to see it at all.

So my girlfriend reckons that's great for European drivers but it wouldn't work here in Perth due to the atrocious driving skills. Could we safely hand over "naked roads" to our drivers? Will the naked roads force them to be better drivers OR will stupidity reign supreme?

[AWSE]

Careful what you wish for.



That's approx. 30kph.

Fuck That.

What do you think your average speed on the way to work and back is? Probably 30 kph, mine is about that.
Sitting on 30 without stopping beats 60 stop 60 stop 70 stop 60 stop. Unless its wheelie endo wheelie endo wheelie and so on.

[darkfibre]

In essence, the more you treat people like idiots, the more they behave that way.

That doesn't explain the idiots that you have not personally treated at all on a personal level that still behave as predicted.


It IS possible that someone is an idiot, without blaming someone else for their behavior.