Qantas emergency landing....

[Pobbler]

(P) #2 Propeller seeping prop fluid

(S) #2 Propeller seepage normal - #1 #3 and #4 propellers lack normal seepage

[Flyboy]

The other two I can remember are:

(P) Cockpit filthy, not fit for pigs

(S) Cockpit cleaned, now fit for pigs

(P) Mouse in cockpit

(S) Cat installed

[sathid]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I don't hold a uni degree, so therefore I'm not fit to be called an engineer? Well please, my dear expert, tell me what I am then and what I do in my job since you so obviously know more about it than someone whos dedicated his life to the profession of aircraft maintenance, holds a pilots license and made aviation as a whole an all consuming passion?

Tell me, how many aircraft have you built?

Technically, in Australia, no, your not.
But does it really matter?

Originally Posted by El Loco

Most 4 year Undergraduate degreed 'Engineers' then spend the next 10 years learning off us 'mechanics' how to use the info shoveled into them at uni. I know, I'm mentoring two of them now!

And I'm sure you were born with all of your experience and knowledge...
These kind of engineer vs technician type arguments really scream of ignorance and ego.




All this stuff with QUANTAS is making me concerned about my 50 odd hours of flights with them at the end of the year... *gulp*

[TurboR1]

Originally Posted by sathid

Technically, in Australia, no, your not.
But does it really matter?



And I'm sure you were born with all of your experience and knowledge...
These kind of engineer vs technician type arguments really scream of ignorance and ego.




All this stuff with QUANTAS is making me concerned about my 50 odd hours of flights with them at the end of the year... *gulp*

Correct on your first point...

On your second point... well... engineers design things... technicians modify them to make em work... fact of life.

I'm more concerned that you have spelled QANTAS with a "U".

[Pkunk]

Originally Posted by sathid

Technically, in Australia, no, your not.
But does it really matter?

*offtopic*

Australian Software Engineers unite!

[dugy]

Originally Posted by TurboR1

On your second point... well... engineers design things... technicians modify them to make em work... fact of life.

It's easy to pick apart problems with something when you're working on it in the field, not as easy when you're looking at black lines on a page.

Don't be so sure it was built or assembled as the engineer instructed either.

Have worked on both sides of the engineer v tech/tradie fence.
The diatribe always cracks me up.

[DaveR6]

Originally Posted by Pkunk

*offtopic*

Australian Software Engineers unite!

dont confuse software engineers with computer scientists though...

*dons asbestos suit*

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Flyboy
I don't hold a uni degree, so therefore I'm not fit to be called an engineer?

The Institution of Engineers has for decades tried to stop mechanics, train drivers, and others from calling themselves 'engineers' - without success.

The trouble is that, unlike a lot of European countries where engineers have the title Ing. (like doctors have Dr), the term 'engineer' has never become defined in this way in Australia and thus lends itself to misuse.

Strictly speaking, an engineer is someone who has completed a 4 year degree. This is the case in all developed nations.

By way of analogy, in Australia, a dentist can only call him/herself a 'dentist' if they have done a 4 year degree. No amount of experience extracting teeth on the dusty streets of Calcutta will allow someone to set up shop here in Perth and call themselves a dentist. On the other hand, one can become a dental technician without the need for formal qualifications.

Note that I'm not denigrating any technical occupation (whether dental technician, lab technician, mechanic, etc.) - all of these people do a sterling job and are well qualified to do their jobs. In my experience almost every job requires its own specialist knowledge (including engineering). An engineer is no better or worse than someone doing a different job with a different title - but let's call a spade a spade.

[barfridge]

Q. Does Singapore airlines use cheap Singaporean labour?



And another one I remember:
(P) Noise under floor in cockpit, sounds like small man hammering on metal
(S) Hammer confiscated from small man

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by sathid

Technically, in Australia, no, your not.
But does it really matter?

So when I'm issued with an Aircraft Maintenance Engineers license, issued from a federal authourity, then what am I? My qualification is as good as your Uni degree.

And secondly, we already have aircraft mechanics in the industry. Aircraft engineering is an entirely different trade stream and totally different job.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Spock

The trouble is that, unlike a lot of European countries where engineers have the title Ing. (like doctors have Dr), the term 'engineer' has never become defined in this way in Australia and thus lends itself to misuse.

But overseas they're designated as engineers too, and under EASA or FAA they are issued with an engineers license.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

My qualification is as good as your Uni degree.

Yes, and my orange tastes the same as your apple.

Mate, the reality of it is I know as little about aircraft maintenance as you do about calculating wing deflections and the associated stresses in the skin and support members.

It's not about your qualification being as good - it's about it being different.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Aircraft engineering is an entirely different trade stream and totally different job.

That about sums it up.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But overseas they're designated as engineers too, and under EASA or FAA they are issued with an engineers license.

In some countries (read USA - which dictates the aircraft industry standards) sure - and this is why the Institution of Engineers throws up its metaphorical hands in dismay.

[Flyboy]

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this one.

I'm not gonna stop calling myself an engineer though. I've got an engineers license, an engineers priveleges, so thats what I am.

Can I have some of your orange now?

[dugy]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this one.

I'm not gonna stop calling myself an engineer though. I've got an engineers license, an engineers priveleges, so thats what I am.

Can I have some of your orange now?

Do you have the engineers "privilege" of being held accountable as engineer for your designs and/or work in a court of law? I doubt it.

We have "commissioning engineers" and "constrution engineers" that don't have a degree.
We all do the same work. No one give a sh*t.
But when a design or specifiation mod needs to be signed off, and could land you in court one day, they are quick to point out that they don't have a bachelor of engineering.

Get over it.

Edit: No one thinks any less of them for not having a degree, but if they carried on like you are.....

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this one.

I'm not gonna stop calling myself an engineer though. I've got an engineers license, an engineers priveleges, so thats what I am.

Can I have some of your orange now?

Actually you are right. You can call yourself an engineer. But if asked to elaborate, your full title would be 'engineering technologist' or 'engineering associate' or 'aircraft maintenance engineer'.

Apparently, the Institution of Engineers, could in theory, take you to court if you (mis)represented yourself as a 'professional engineer' or 'consulting engineer', 'graduate engineer', or even just 'engineer' (if you suggested you were one of the above).

the terms 'professional engineer', 'engineer' or 'member of the engineering profession' are used to describe only those persons eligible to be Graduate or Corporate Members of the Institution [of Engineers].

from Online Ethics Center: The Institution of Engineers, Australia Code of Ethics

You can have some of my orange if I can have some of your apple.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by dugy

Do you have the engineers "privilege" of being held accountable as engineer for your design and work in a court of law? I doubt it.

If I screw up, its gaol time for me. Any breach of the Act constitutes a federal offence. Aircraft engineers have gone to gaol for screwing up in the past. So yes, I am accountable for everything I sign for.

And I was being nice and having a polite debate over this, and even having a laugh about it. Please don't tell me to get over it, theres no need for that.

Anyway, my point was we should agree to disagree. I'm gonna keep calling myself an engineer, thats what my license states, thats what my federal recognition is, and thats all there is to it.

[mark_rattigan]

Some guy I had to deal with at work had "Customer Service Engineer" as his job title on the Corporate Directory - I cringed.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Spock

You can have some of my orange if I can have some of your apple.

Done!

[dugy]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And I was being nice and having a polite debate over this, and even having a laugh about it. Please don't tell me to get over it, theres no need for that.

Internet failed. Forgot the emoticon thingy.

[Flyboy]

Oh, just found this out.....

Under the new EASA system, we'll be eligible for an Associates Degree

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