Contrary Opinions

[James R. Davis]

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[Spock]

I'll have a go!

Said in other forums on this site is that 'ANY bike can do a Wheelie'. I disagree. Though most certainly can, Stoppies and Wheelies REQUIRE adequate weight transfer to occur to totally unburden from a weight perspective one or the other of the tires and the geometry of some bikes, notwithstanding how powerful their engines are, don't allow that amount of weight transfer.[/b]

I'm no expert on wheelies but seems to me some people can wheelie anything. I've seen people wheelie 50cc scooters and I believe it was on your site that I saw someone wheelying a Goldwing! If a Goldwing can be wheelied - then surely there is no bike that cannot be wheelied!

[millsy]

It is my opinion that sportbikes CANNOT stop as quickly as can most tourers (heavy) or crusers. That, because the geometry of a sportbike leads to doing Stoppies before front tire skid, thus you cannot attain as high a deceleration rate with a sortbike.[/b]

I think you picked an easy one, seeing as you've nearly spelled it out. Heavy tourers/cruisers...exactly they have a lot more to stop, A sportsbike has a whole lot less weight so it should be able to pull up as quick or quicker. However the rider is what really makes the difference.

I had to pull up a ways back very quickly (some guy pulled out in front of me from between stationary cars in the lane to my left, nearest the kerb) I grabbed a fist full of brake and yeah I went up on the front wheel and then eased off to an easy rolling stop avoiding a collision, more luck than skill on my part maybe. I'd rather go up on the front than have front tire skid. they way you've written it you make it sound like the more desirable of the two scenarios?

[James R. Davis]

deleted

[Rich]

Well...I've had a coupla...ok several drinks...Your advise on stopping tank slappers says...and don't quote me but something like...

"brace the bars and grab a handful of front brake" thats the jist of it anyway..

Well I'm with you on the bracing the bars..ie using your arm strength to stop it ...but...

I ain't EVER like NEVER EVER grabbing front brake whilst in a tank slapper..

Here

This I would debate with you till the cows come home but only a practical demonstration will do..

And I ain't doing it....so are you going to grab a HANDFUL of from brake while in a lock to lock slapper/?

I'd like to see that...

As for wheeling a Goldwing...Why not stand on the seat...raises the centre of gravity...give me a go on your Wing...haha

[James R. Davis]

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[Pete]

I have written thousands of messages and hundreds of articles about various aspects of motorcycle safety. Many of the articles have been reproduced in this sub forum. But what I don't yet see here are contrary opinions. That is a surprise to me.[/b]

This thread shows why most people probably haven't aired any opposing opinions to yours. Clearly this thread was baited with a word in both your opinions "MOST". This shows to me and maybe most of the people on the forum who are mostly dubious towards what they read on the internet.

That you are an attention seeking prat.



Roster where did you find this fool.

[Rich]

Steady Pete...bit harsh...but I can't say I'm convinced..but hey different views and what not....some I agree with, some I shake my head at..

[Pete]

Steady Pete...bit harsh...but I can't say I'm convinced..but hey different views and what not....some I agree with, some I shake my head at..[/b]

Not really imagine how many people on sports bikes which he clearly admits to not riding that end up with broken arms or worse trying his tankslapper cure.

[Davey]

Are you here to be informative or to fish for 'bites' and be arrogant and pig-headed?



(A serious question)

[James R. Davis]

deleted

[Rich]

yes...they are only his opinions, and like ya said "ya can't believe everything you read on the 'net"...

Yep...some nOOb could think that he is the god of motorcycling and believe all that he says...

BUT..they could also look at you or me, and think the same, and anything we told them would just be what we said, or what we read in Lee Parks book...(joking spock)...only riding truely teaches you...by that I mean he could be right about the tank slappers...just I ain't trying it..

msgroup did you click the link....you know the HERE one..

[Anton]

Weight has virtually nothing to do with how fast you can stop! Though cruisers and tourers are indeed heavier than most sportbikes, ....................
that additional weight increases traction so that you can use more braking energy without skiding.[/b]

That assumes that the brakes have enough power to deal with the extra load and wont overheat/fade and that thier wasn't ample traction already. When you have a pillion and luggage it always takes longer to pull up, I get my pillions to brace the fuel tank with thier hands when I'm braking/cornering and most of them are good pillions and dont tranfer thier weight, yet it always takes longer to stop

[millsy]

If people are going to insist on using facts and figures this isn't going going to be a very good debate

For people that haven't been on the Bike scene too long please argue away so that we can hear both sides hey?
I've never even heard of "The MSG" before now.

[Rich]

Mate I'd rather not crash at all....hence I ain't touching the front brake....

Oh yeah if ya clicked the link you WILL know you said it and followed it with..."go get it fixed"..

Yeah get your bike fixed and all ya broken bones...

[Pete]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

"brace the bars and grab a handful of front brake" thats the jist of it anyway..[/b]

I don&#39;t believe that I have ever advocated &#39;grabbing a handful of front brake&#39;. You squeeze it hard then you squeeze it harder, then harder still in order to get best performance from that brake without locking your front wheel and ending up eating asphalt.

And the rear brake is the most dangerous control on your motorcycle simply because it is so easy to over use it. It is never, ever, not once in your lifetime, appropriate to aggressively use your rear brake.

But let&#39;s go back to the issue of being in a tank slapper situation. You are already in a world of hurt when that happens. There is something WRONG with your suspension and steering system for that to happen. Though you envision a tank slapper at high speeds, it is often true that they happen at very slow speeds as well. In any event, you are no longer in control of the direction of travel of your bike when a tank slapper occurs. In other words, you are extremely likely to crash.

So, would you rather crash at 60 MPH or 50 MPH? Would you rather stress that suspension and steering system by increasing your speed, doing a wheelie, and then bring that failing front-end back down to earth at higher speed, or try to do something that will stop the harmonic and slow the bike down in an attempt to save it?

Not a pretty situation to be in, I&#39;ll grant you that, but as I said in the beginning, you are ALREADY in a world of hurt and if you do nothing the odds are you are going to change that potential pain into real, life threatening agony.



Thanks for the feedback. It appears that I am not really welcome here. Fine. I&#39;ll cease and desist.

(I was trying to stir the pot and get a doscussion going.)
[/b][/quote]

No one here has said to use the rear brake or to wheely out of a tank slapper. You are making up incorrect answers now to make yours seem more correct.

Obviously what you perceive as a tankslapper and what we understand them to be are two completely different things. I have experienced mild tank slappers and witnessed some very violent tankslappers and the smartest thing to do in my opinion is hold power on or increase power.

[Rich]

I will say it again....I AIN"T TOUCHING THE FRONT BRAKE.......

[Davey]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

I&#39;m no expert on wheelies but seems to me some people can wheelie anything. I&#39;ve seen people wheelie 50cc scooters and I believe it was on your site that I saw someone wheelying a Goldwing! If a Goldwing can be wheelied - then surely there is no bike that cannot be wheelied![/b]

A bite!

Spock,

When a statement is an absolute declarative (one that uses a word like &#39;ANY&#39 then most people realize that it can be demonstrated to be false in some conditions. To say that ANY bike can do a wheelie presumes that the bike is not tricked out with an extended chopper front-end, has adequate torque at the rear wheel and adequate traction there, and a CG that is high enough as compared to thelength of its wheelbase to cause enough weight transfer to lift the front-end off the ground. Can you make those assumptions about ALL bikes? Certainly not.

In the case of the GoldWing photo on my site that is doing a wheelie, it required the presence of a pretty heavy crazy passenger. Without that passenger the GoldWing CANNOT (normally) do a Wheelie. It has plenty of torque and traction, but its center of gravity is too low as compared to its wheelbase length to generate sufficient weight transfer for that to happen without doing something like adding that heavy passenger (which shifted weight to the rear and, more importantly, raised the CG of the bike.)
[/b][/quote]

If you&#39;re going to be a pedantic bastard with a reply like that then I argue that any bike ANY bike, can wheelie, with a 500lb weight strapped to the back.

Because we have not limited the conditions of the circumstances, then basically the argument becomes an excercise in futility.

Seriously.

[lee]

No one here has said to use the rear brake or to wheely out of a tank slapper. You are making up incorrect answers now to make yours seem more correct.

Obviously what you perceive as a tankslapper and what we understand them to be are two completely different things. I have experienced mild tank slappers and witnessed some very violent tankslappers and the smartest thing to do in my opinion is hold power on or increase power.[/b]

2nded. I&#39;ve also got tank slappers when locking the front brake under extremely hard braking, best thing in my experience then is to get the fark away from the front brake.

Also, unless you&#39;re riding a piece of shit bike, I don&#39;t have any reason to believe a single tank slapper should immediately spring the thought "my suspensions gone to shit!" into your head when you&#39;re trying to sort yourself out.

[Rich]

Well...If msgroup was offended by anything I said I would appologise....but hey I never insulted him, only tried to see how and why he would use front brakes while in a tank slapper. He wanted contrary opinions and then ran when he got them...

So msgroup...have you ever had a lock to lock slapper...and yes I have had one on a bike that had no steering damper and I was travelling at 160kph (100 mph) when it happened...