new style of frame sliders - thoughts?

[jobbo]

See BlackFZR's post? Thats an opinion. A decent one. It actually refers to LSLs and gives ground to it through accounts and explanation. So was Drifter's. Yours? Well...

Ask for an opinion and you generally expect it to be helpful, not derisive and next to useless. It pissed me off and gave me no reason to give it any credit.

Still those LSL's will never cause a bike to flip whereas the oggies could. Thats something atleast. Plus they can't catch on a kerb which is how I know one bike got wrecked. That the mount bent in a crash is fucked though. As for spinning well again it would only work in a relatively straight slide I guess. Bit disappointed now though lol.

[Rich]

And your opinion of them is based on what?

Their advertising?

[jobbo]

My opinion on them was based on yes their advertising, but also common sense and good logic such as their physical DIFFERENCES to oggy knobs.

They can't flip the bike (don't stick out enough, hemispherical head)...even if oggys do only rarely. This is obvious.

They probably would help a bike slide straight if it crashed and would have without frame sliders. (Clearly not in all cases) Alot of people in here made the mistake assuming they were supposed to stop a bike with a fair bit of force behind its spin. Of course they won't. I don't know the details of the spin BlackFZR is recounting.

I didn't know what LSL's would be like in regards to frame or structural damage but BlackFZR has cleared that up. All I said was that Oggys definitely have this problem.

Also note that my original questions simply stated that I only knew what the advertising said but that I knew for a fact that Oggys can do all of the damage I listed earlier.

You argued this with statements like,

"I could find numerous videos of race bikes flipping that don't have oggy knobs..."

or

"Nothing is going to stop a bike spinning or flipping once it goes down..."

Well an Oggy can START one. Use common sense.

Seriously come on buddy.

It is only now after learning from this thread that they are clearly not as effective as I had hoped as they obviously have the same potential to fuck the frame and engine. It was never my opinion that these would offer better protection than oggys...just that they wouldn't have the same potential to damage.

So while painful I am glad I have learned what I wanted to know so in a most indirect way, thanks!

[filbert]

this one went well beyond butthurt, you killed the easter bunny and revealed santa claus as a paedophile all in one fell swoop rich, how dare they exaggerate and mislead in their advertising. If they say that their product is superior and will not instigate the same reactions to the laws of physics in a crash situation it should be true

As with oggies bolting extensions onto engine mounts or frame sections adds leverage to an impact generally bending the mounting point since it was never engineered for the extra load.

[darkfibre]

My crash knobs wont cause as much of a spin as this thread causes!

[xanthian]

Still those LSL's will never cause a bike to flip whereas the oggies could.

Assuming this is the model you're referring to:



They appear to be just a more fragile version of an engine case replacement than actual oggies -- and as such, won't protect the fairings whatsoever. My primary concern would be what happens to the top 4 mounting bolts now that you mounted a cage to act as a lever on each of them in the event of a crash? But that's more a debate of engine protection vs engine cases.

As has already been stated, oggies aren't the only things that may cause a bike to flip. Even bikes with oggies on them that flip, can do so for other reasons entirely. Again, assuming these are the LSL's being discussed, the disadvantage is that they'll leave your plastics more exposed than an oggy.

Around barbs, I'd be worried about oggies catching some of the ridiculously raised ripple strips, maybe. But oggies or not, those ripple strips are going to fuck you up anyway. The new sand is so soft and buryable, I can't see a pitchfork digging in enough to flip a bike, tbqh.

Personally, I'd take the money and put it towards offsetting a future crash instead.

[Bendito]

You remind me of people that argue a helmet can be dangerous, because of the extra weight on your head, and the possibility of the helmet catching on the road and causing a neck injury.

Now, you realise Oggy Knobs are just one brand of many that make frame sliders/crash knobs, right? Why the fixation? Are you also going to compare them to R&G, Woodcraft, Motovation, Sato and many of the other brands out there?

They can't flip the bike (don't stick out enough, hemispherical head)...even if oggys do only rarely. This is obvious.

Is it? Is it really?

They probably would help a bike slide straight if it crashed and would have without frame sliders. (Clearly not in all cases)

They would probably help a bike slide straight if it landed cleanly on its side and slid on a uniform surface, and all points of contact with the road were on these knobs, and they were positioned so that the bike's weight was evenly distrubuted through all points of contact.

I didn't know what LSL's would be like in regards to frame or structural damage but BlackFZR has cleared that up. All I said was that Oggys definitely have this problem.

As do ALL frame sliders/crash bungs/skateboard wheels. Force that would normally be taken through more parts of the bike are taken by the slider, and onward through their mount.

Use common sense.

Seriously come on buddy.

Come on indeed.

There are so many different factors involved that you'd be silly to think an inch lees slider sticking out will be the deciding factor for EVERY bike. Choose your bike first. Now think about what parts you want to protect. Engine cases? A little lump of plastic halfway up your bike probably won't do it. Fairings? Your little lump won't do much there either. Frame? Well if the frame is shielded by other parts protruding further then it's fine as is, right?

Motorcycles have many sticky-outy bits, one made of a material designed to grind away easily probably won't encourage a flip any more than a solidly mounted rearset would.

A lot of moaning I have heard about frame sliders being horrible has come from people with offset "no-cut" mounts, which are easier to mount, but can fare very differently in a crash. Something off an engine mount may damage the frame, and "no-cut" slider may snap off and punch through the engine case, introducing nasty chunks of metal to your engine internals.

To think that you can boil it all down to longer = more flips and spins is really really dumb. The only way you can try and predict how they will work is on a smooth slide with nothing to hit, any more than that and there are more variables than you could try and consider.

"Motorbike: upgradeage in progress"
When you pick a bike, look at what you want to protect, examine different brands, look at where and how they mount, think about how they might work in different crash scenarios from stationary drops to 100km/h lowsides, search here and other forums to see how other owners have gone after a crash.

When knowledgeable members weigh in with their experiences, don't immediately start foaming at the mouth and bashing your keyboard because an advertisement told you different.

[drifter]

A lot of moaning I have heard about frame sliders being horrible has come from people with offset "no-cut" mounts, which are easier to mount, but can fare very differently in a crash. Something off an engine mount may damage the frame, and "no-cut" slider may snap off and punch through the engine case, introducing nasty chunks of metal to your engine internals.

hey, i wasn't moaning.. and it was only a slight crack.

[Bendito]

I was actually thinking of a couple of different cases, but I guess it fits

[drifter]

I was actually thinking of a couple of different cases, but I guess it fits

actually if i think about it, i was moaning, but about the company that didn't bother to notice or repair the crack, not the actual fame slider itself.

[BlackFZR]

They can't flip the bike (don't stick out enough, hemispherical head)...even if oggys do only rarely. This is obvious.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the bike which had the sub-frame destroyed was a lowside that turned into a flipping bike..... whether the sliders did it or not I don't know, but there is also bars and rearsets that can cause this as well, so a again this isn't a selling feature of the LSL's, as other things on the bike can do it just as easily, and the LSL sliders definitely wouldn't be able to stop it.

[lee]

one of the main reasons for going with oggies is they'll pretty much always protect your tank, well, that's one of the main purposes, and why they stick out so much. those other ones aren't going to do anything for your tank, which means you're talking like $1500 for a new tank if/when you drop it.

i think the "im scurred they'll make my bike levitate!" argument is for faggots. if it's on the track and you're running raceglass, probably not so important. if you're on the road, you're better off with them. it's pretty much that simple.

[agrid]

I remember reading somewhere in motardland that oggys protect the bike and the handguards help to stop the bike from flipping. I've also seen some pictures of pretty serious damage to hypertard engine cases at the engine mount that the owner claims was caused by the oggys. Some other company had some flat blade style protectors that wrapped around the frame on the hyper.

[jobbo]

xanthian - Different mount spot on my k6. My bad assuming all were the same.

bendito - le sigh. Oggys meaning the traditional Oggy stick out shape, notice I also use the term traditional sliders. Is it really? Uh yes. You lose 2 inches of sticky outy bit. The deciding factor? No..I never said this. Why do you interpret what i said as sliders being the cause of all/most spins and flips...I never said this in fact carefully made it clear i wasn't. You do know what potential is don't you? One less potential catchy bit eliminated is a good thing imo.


"When knowledgeable members weigh in with their experiences, don't immediately start foaming at the mouth and bashing your keyboard because an advertisement told you different."

Lol, a stirring image. Lets make it clear yet again that I had no problem with most of the knowledgeable input here...only the one I found condescending and largely unhelpful.

I was merely looking at reducing a potential hazard...clearly one with a minor chance of occurrence but one I reckon is still worth trying to get rid of.

BlackFZR - I know its not a selling feature I'm not spouting advertising. Just looks a helluva lot less likely to catch or dig than the ones on my bike now.

All in all I feel deeply hurt in the butt by all of this hating on me hating. Though I have learned my lesson and will let it slide in future haha. Atleast I got information from all the people drawn by my grouch, so all in all quite an effective means of product review, at the minimal cost of ones pride.

So according to most here, straight raceglass for track and Oggys on road despite the occurrences? How about some cheap ABS fairings for the road? The fairings are set out quite a way from the engine on the 06 gsxr atleast so that'd probably save the tank too? Or is it more to do with the angle the oggy keeps the bike at when sliding on its side?

[SzyCo]

The cost of them is appealing, compared to oggy's, although personally after the damaged caused by oggy's to my bike in the past, unless these are drastically designed differently, I won't buy them.

By designed differently, I mean where and how they mount, and how they absorb impact damage. I suffered engine damage, and mounting damage from oggys. It's the initial hit to the ground that bent the mountings and caused the oggy's to fail and cause extra damage. (and no, they didn't save any fairings either, lowside was about 60km p/hr) Don't ask me about the high side.....

Comparing these sliders to oggy's, (only one's I know about) I would think the longer sticky outty bits would give you more sliding time before they wear away to that of which you're trying to protect, which the LSL's don't seem to have. I'll admit that I've never taken any flipping or spinning into consideration, Only my accidents.

I will add that I no longer have any sliders fitted to my bike.

[filbert]

If you're open to actual advice jobbo proven methods of protection are the ones used as minimum standards for race tracks, get yourself some solidly constructed case savers or bolt on billet covers sold to stop cases fracturing in a fall at most speeds, some good fibreglass fairings will add weight compared to the ultra thin stock ABS fairings but they can take a serious hit, so serious in fact that if you end up with damage under them then there was no saving it to begin with and i personally would run glass lowers on the street as low speed fall protection. Obviously you need stock uppers for the lights etc.

I've never been a fan of oggies purely because if it was going to hit the ground hard enough to damage anything it warrants a proper inspection rather than pick it up and say "yay the oggies saved it" and jump straight back onto a possibly bent or cracked bike.

[kKk]

so which frame sliders are good to get at a resonable price

[jobbo]

The gist here is that Oggies will potentially save more of your bike as they stick out further and the LSLs can be mounted lower on some models. In saying that the LSLs are cheaper and may have some of the benefits I reiterated a few thousand times..so its up to you. Imo I'd get the LSL's but mainly because of the savings and aesthetics.

Also for racebike - glass w/ no frame sliders is considered better by most.

Was a lol re reading this thread

[Para045]

Depends what bike you have and if you go the no cut model or not. Not every bike is the same and LSL have to design to suit.
Other models you have a choice such as the 08 600/750 some you don't have a no cut option. Depends on the bike

one of the main reasons for going with oggies is they'll pretty much always protect your tank, well, that's one of the main purposes, and why they stick out so much. those other ones aren't going to do anything for your tank, which means you're talking like $1500 for a new tank if/when you drop it.

As above it really does depend on the type of bike and placement
Quite a few guys on the US BB forums have used various types of sliders and they all vary in how/what they protect
The Shrooms like these bird1.jpg
are really only designed for low speed or stationary layovers as they just use a fairing bolt, the Oggy knobs
!cid_432E6B28EF374889AD335F68E32F89CD@kalidahLaptop.jpg mount via a bracket AND are quite well placed
and then there are Motovation CBR1100aR_r1_c4_f2.jpg
and GSG 6986-425x350.jpg which mount via an engine bolt BUT from what I have read due to being mounted lower the Motovation and GSG types cause the bike to be more prone to flip during a crash and while they save the lower panels can be more likely to smash the mirror housing and even the nose cowl and tank

Horses for courses I guess and what you are trying to protect

I mean in my crash a few months back I had no knobs/sliders and went down hard on the LH side and there was minimal (almost none) damage to the pictured panel partly due to my foot and the footpeg assembly along with the long HVMP hondacomparisson.jpg bar ends and the exhaust can taking most of the impact and then the crankcase cover wearing through
I was quite surprised that there was almost no damage to the lower panels