Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour beforehand?

[Sventek]

I wonder if this is true: FDR and Churchill discuss the pending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

[Noctis]

I believe a large convoy of enemy fighters and warships traveling across the pacific to an allied strategic military location is a bit hard to miss.

[Ken Oath]

To the original question.....several forests have been cut down to proove one way or the other....will we ever know the truth???
Perhaps the U.S. knew the Japs were up to something, but couldn't quite put their finger on it....

To Noctis, in the pre-satellite, pre-U2, pre-Blackbird days.....not that hard to hide, actually.

[Dr. Venkman]

I don't, the Japanese travelled under strict radio silence, radar at the time was fairly primitive, added to that was sheer amount of area that the yanks would have had to have searched, we're talking in the millions of square kilomtres of ocean :



To me if they had known, why were their forces not alerted, the japanese could have been ambushed at the launch point by submarines and then by aircraft enroute to or over PH, the attack force could have been obliterated, and a protracted war in the Pacific could have been forshortened by a year or so, the japanese probably would not have invaded PNG and the Solomons had it been

[Mo-Fo]

The British had already broken some of the Jap codes and new they were up to something. The Brits told a senior yank naval officer that they believed the Japs were planning a major attack and that they believed the target would be at Pearl Harbour. The yank naval officer told his peers but his peers didn't believe that the Japs would be bold enough to attack them on their 'home turf' (got 9/11 anyone?) and chose to ignore the warning. Anyway as we know they did and it's a pure luck that most of the US carriers weren't harboured there at that specific time.

[peter600]

I believe British intelligence knew the germans were going to bomb Coventry.
They didn't let on because that would've tipped the germans off that they'd broken their code.

[Desmo]

To me if they had known, why were their forces not alerted

Because it was a white flag operation designed to bring the U.S. into the war, specifically the war in the east?
There is no way the allies could have won the war against Japan, even if they had it would have been protracted and ugly.
By allowing Pearl harbor to be attacked, this then gave America a valid and morally acceptable reason to declare war on Japan and ultimately end World war 2 with the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
The end.

[Noctis]

^^^^^ that.

Of course they knew.
It's hard to gather public support to fight in a war that you have no part in. What better way to promote involvement into a war than an 'unprovoked' attack from the enemy.

War is the most profitable event for developed countries. Pearl harbour was just the excuse they needed to cash in on it.

Have a look at all conflicts involving the US and what caused it. It was all 'unwarranted' attacks by the enemy.

[Speed Dealer.]

Wow, really professional looking website. Excuse me while I go make my own website and write about how the iceberg the Titanic hit was not there by accident.

People can publish whatever they want on the net. Theres whole forums of Holocaust deniers chatting about how no Jews died in WW2.

[Aufitt]

Good excuse to test some bombs.

History always repeats.

[jules_1972]

"Specifically, in response to the Japanese occupation of French Indochina (Vietnam). Japan had been waging war against a largely defenseless China since 1937, and previous diplomatic protests and embargoes had had absolutely no effect whatsoever on Japan's policy of expansion by force. Roosevelt had hesitated to impose an embargo on oil sales to Japan before, for fear this would merely cause the Japanese to conquer the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) to seize the ample oil fields there. This is, in fact, what the Japanese decided to do after the US imposed the oil embargo, attacking the US at the outset to make sure the US Pacific Fleet was in no position to interfere."




Read more: Why did US cut oil supplies to japan

[TurboR1]

Because it was a white flag operation designed to bring the U.S. into the war, specifically the war in the east?
There is no way the allies could have won the war against Japan, even if they had it would have been protracted and ugly.
By allowing Pearl harbor to be attacked, this then gave America a valid and morally acceptable reason to declare war on Japan and ultimately end World war 2 with the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
The end.

Worked again 60 years later to get support to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Mr John]

Did Roosevelt know? Consider what Sun Tzu said: "All war is deception."

Popular opinion in the US was overwhelmingly against going to war, war had to be brought to the US because there was a lot of money to be made.

"All wars are fought for money" - Socrates.

[GreenMeanie]

Did the Japanese beat the USA to the Philadelphia Experiment?

[shan]

An idea about it , one of many senarios yes maby.
New it was inevertable , I find that laughable.
Do people think the United states are the all seeing wonder of inteligence operations.

Do you think its good stratergy to loose most of the pasific fleet in one day.

Many things where over looked on both sides.
Question, why didnt Yamamoto (I think it was him ) blow the feul storage in the Pearl harbour attaks.
With that add on target the Americans would have been fucked.
The carriers with out feul, planes with out fuel.

Aside from waking a sleeping Giant.
That was the Japanees bigest mistake IMO.

They could have won

[Rock]

Hmmm. Bringing the USA into the war was a pretty high priority for the British, they were in deep shit in Europe and Africa and were also stretched out in the Far East. I have heard stories (years ago now) from some old vets in the intel field that the Japanese codes were compromised and that indications and warning of Jap intentions in the east Pacific were known prior to Dec 41. The jap fleet may have been emcon silent, but its pretty hard from a logistics pov to hide the sailing of such a significant battle group even back then. Word has it that the intercepts were made by Aussie recieving stations right here in WA.

This could also have tied in with the lose of the Sydney when it went down with all hands against the Kormoran off Geraldton. Most of the German crew survived the battle, however it is still considered very unusual (and suspicious) that all 645 officers and crew of the Sydney perished. Did the Kormoran have help? Was it rendevousing with a Jap sub? Did the Jap sub ensure no Aussies survived? If such posibilities were true, then war would have been declared against Japan earlier and the tactical advantage of surprise that the Japs needed for their attacks lost. Perhaps our govt did know what really happened and a decision was made to allow Pearl Harbour to go ahead.

The Japs could have won in the Pacific (imho) if they had have consolidated their gains in the Pacific to Malaya and the Philippines. They over-stretched their already tenuous lines of supply and lost too many experienced soldiers and pilots. Once the US defeated them the battles of the Coral Sea and Midway, the Japs lost their ability to protect their supply lines, to counter the US submarine threat and to stop the US from gaining land to launch bombers.

[shan]

The russians won in Europe.
The poms wernt there, they needed American support for the convoys just to hang on, the yanks made big mony there supplying boats .

America came into Europe when the gremans had over commited on the eastern front, massive numbers where chewed daily through that grinder.
America came in at the best time for America, no question there, Couldent let russia have all of the german conquerd land on the back swing.

As far as the Sydney goes, Rumer from the surviving Germans is she steamed up as a freindly would.
They where a little to relaxed being so close to home, the german raider had for a while being running amoke . Why so casual ??
The truth is a casulty here as always with wars, what really happend we can ponder.

[Phildo]

AMany things where over looked on both sides.
Question, why didnt Yamamoto (I think it was him ) blow the feul storage in the Pearl harbour attaks.
With that add on target the Americans would have been fucked.
The carriers with out feul, planes with out fuel.

According to a documentary I have here somewhere, there was a de-briefing between senior US and Japanese people after the war, during which the Americans showed the Japanese photos of the island and asked why they didn't bomb the large while silos at the top/in the middle.

The Japanese replied that they weren't a nominated target - the objective was to disable Navy resources only. That was their sole focus. Target fixation.

Turns out that the US oil supply for the region was in those silos.

Japan rushed into the war in a dramatic way because they only had 18 months of oil supply. They didn't realise that the same restriction of resource that they were dealing (lack of oil) with could also be the same problem that other countries (ie their enemies) had to deal with.

Germany ended up in a similar predicament - they were building factories to produce synthetic oil but these factories were magically bombed by the US whenever they were ready for production, thanks to information supplied by an insider.

[shan]

According to a documentary I have here somewhere, there was a de-briefing between senior US and Japanese people after the war, during which the Americans showed the Japanese photos of the island and asked why they didn't bomb the large while silos at the top/in the middle.

The Japanese replied that they weren't a nominated target - the objective was to disable Navy resources only. That was their sole focus. Target fixation.

Turns out that the US oil supply for the region was in those silos.

Japan rushed into the war in a dramatic way because they only had 18 months of oil supply. They didn't realise that the same restriction of resource that they were dealing (lack of oil) with could also be the same problem that other countries (ie their enemies) had to deal with.

.

Ironic they didnt see feul oil as a navy resource however they when looking into there own navy did see it as a resource.
Is there a word for such oversite ?

[TurboR1]

Is there a word for such oversight ?

It's called (somewhat ironically) the oil and gas industry.