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Thread: F1 2012 Season

  1. #101
    Member edmands_3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEEDS View Post
    Im struggling to imagine how air entering the tip of the nose (which i thought was for driver cooling) is being redirected forward and down back over the Front wing.... I need an animation :-)

    Glad someone was able to attempt something different. Still wondering about the post box on the red bull (def not just for KERS cooling IMO)
    Not quite an animation, but a description of their concept from late last year: Formula 1 I am pretty surprised no one else has copied it or adapted something similar to blow air onto the rear wing. For example, use something like a check valve with replaceable springs that opens at a speed a bit higher than the fastest corner on the track to stall the wing. So on the fastest corner it is fine, but as soon as you exceed that speed the wing stalls and you get better straightline speed.

    Here is more info on the red bull vent: Scarbsf1's Blog | Everything technical in F1. I still think it probably has another use apart from airflow over the nose though. Ducting air to the diffuser would make the most sense, to try to replace some of the lost downforce from the blown diffuser.

  2. #102
    Member STEEDS's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link - the W-duct is actually quite similar to what I imagined.

    Quote Originally Posted by edmands_3 View Post
    I am pretty surprised no one else has copied it or adapted something similar to blow air onto the rear wing.
    I thought the same thing - but perhaps the extra material required to provide a vent to the rear wing negates the effect now it isn't driver operated?

    The tensioned spring design you mentioned makes sense - so they can adjust the stall speed between tracks :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by edmands_3 View Post
    Here is more info on the red bull vent. I still think it probably has another use apart from airflow over the nose though. Ducting air to the diffuser would make the most sense, to try to replace some of the lost downforce from the blown diffuser.
    I agree with this too but isn't is specifically hot air over the diffuser that increases downforce dramatically? New exhaust and engine mapping rules have ruined this a little... So i would be interested in seeing if cold air has the same effect.


    As you know the 'floor' of an F1 car is the most powerful generator of downforce. Perhaps there is an advantage in reducing drag at high speed there as well?


    Id give a left nut to work on a F1 R&D team

  3. #103
    Member edmands_3's Avatar
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    The temperature of the air that goes over the diffuser doesn't matter as much, it is more about the airflow and speed. The main thing is that the exhaust can produce a lot of air at high speed, which can be easily directed to wherever you want it.

    The F1 regs specify most measurements from the reference plane, which is the line along the bottom of the car floor. So your wing placement etc. is all measured from this line, not from the ground. What Red Bull was doing last year was running a high angle of rake (ie. front of the car low, rear high). So their wing at the front was lower to the ground and the diffuser was higher off the ground. So downforce at the front is then really good because the wing is close to the track in the undisturbed airflow, but the diffuser doesn't work properly because it is too high off the ground. To overcome this, they then used the exhaust to blow into and around the diffuser to direct the air through the diffuser more efficiently, restoring the lost downforce from the high rake.

    So if Red Bull wants to keep their car setup similar to last year, blowing extra air through the diffuser from additional ducting would be a good way to do it. Of course then it is all about balance as well, because through slow corners they wouldn't have anywhere near the airflow as they would through fast ones so their diffuser may not really work properly. Last year they used throttle maps to ensure that they had good flow through the diffuser through the slow corners as well.
    STEEDS likes this.

  4. #104
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    Rumours are True
    FIA to eliminate potential for F1 exhaust blowing by closing off ECU loophole - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

    FIA to eliminate potential for F1 exhaust blowing by closing off ECU loophole
    The FIA is to close off a loophole in Formula 1's new engine mapping regulations as part of a fresh clampdown on exhaust blowing, AUTOSPORT can reveal.

    As teams continue to push the limits of the exhaust regulations, sources have revealed that the FIA has been alerted about a way in which teams could get around the stricter engine mapping limits laid down for this year.

    Motor racing's governing body has been on a crusade to eradicate any form of exhaust blowing that is primarily aimed at producing an aerodynamic benefit.

    As well as agreeing with teams on technical regulations that forced the now-standard periscope exhaust designs, AUTOSPORT revealed in October that the FIA was also imposing strict limits on engine mapping programmes to prevent the continued off-throttle blowing of them.

    Although that move went some way to resolving the issue, sources have revealed that the FIA has now been tipped off by one engine maker that there remains the possibility in the current mapping configurations to get around those new limits.

    AUTOSPORT understands that the issue relates to the extreme possibility of a team trying to make use of a bigger throttle opening than is allowed, to help increase the flow of exhaust gases by inducing a misfire.

    Sources have confirmed that the FIA has worked with the manufacturer involved to cut off this potential avenue of development. An updated version of the software for F1's Standard ECU - which controls the engine maps - will be released before the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

    The FIA does not suspect that any team was making use of this loophole at the present time, although such an action could not have been ruled out if outfits had found out about it later in the campaign.

    Williams chief operations engineer Mark Gillan said he remained confident that the FIA had a handle on the exhaust regulations for 2012 - and that the closing of such loopholes would be part and parcel of the build-up to the new season.

    "The engine mapping technical directives, which have now been out for a few months, are very clear," said Gillan, when asked by AUTOSPORT about the situation during Barcelona testing.

    "How you direct the exhausts is clear as well. As we can see down the pitlane, there are various options and we are investigating all of those options to see what benefit we can get.

    "There's definitely performance to be had, but it's nowhere near the performance levels that we had last year. From our side, we have a good idea of the boundaries. There are a few minor technical directives coming out in terms of what is acceptable and what is not, but they are minor compared to the ones that came out in the tail end of last season."

  5. #105
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    Rossi you will enjoy this
    Launch Analysis: Ferrari F2012 | Scarbsf1's Blog

    and some light at the end of the tunnel for Ferrari

    Scuderia Ferrari


    Montmelo, 23 February – This first long period of shaking down for the F2012 is now reaching its conclusion. While the mantra repeated on a daily basis by the crew of the Prancing Horse remains the same from Jerez to today – “we are acquiring data on the behaviour of the new car,” there’s a good reason for it: the team is concentrating mainly on analysing all the information gathered on what is a totally new project, featuring some extreme elements that require an in-depth check in order to be fit for purpose by the start of the season. The work on the track has therefore been rather different to previous winters, leaning more towards set-up modifications and on car configuration rather than looking for performance over short and long distances. Yes, there have also been a few little problems on the reliability front which have slowed down the operation, but the guide lines for the real development work are beginning to emerge and they will form the basis of the final test session next week, which will get underway on Friday 2 March, twenty four hours later than planned.

    Also different to usual will be the running order of the drivers, in that Felipe will start and then alternate with his team-mate, who will bring the session to an end on Monday 5 March. Today, Felipe was back in the cockpit of the F2012 after four days in which it fell to Fernando to see to development. “The car is definitely better compared to Jerez and we are beginning to define how we must move forward to continue to improve,” said the Brazilian. “I ran all the time on the hardest tyres and I am reasonably pleased with the work we did. Tomorrow, I will try the other compounds and we will work on fine tuning the car. It will be important to do a lot of kilometres over these final five days to be as well prepared as possible for the first race of the season.”
    Last edited by Kaido; 24-02-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  6. #106
    PSB Corporate Sponsor RRossi's Avatar
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    Well there is light at the end or beginning of the tunnel?

    Massa: "Yes, I am happy"




    Felipe Massa is feeling a lot happier about his F2012 after revealing that Ferrari found a direction that works on the final day at Barcelona. Behind the wheel on the last day of the second test, Massa finally broke the 100-lap barrier for the first time in pre-season testing. It was a very positive sigh for Ferrari with the Brazilian amassing 103 laps with a best time of 1:23.563. However, more to the point, Massa reckons the Italian stable has finally found a way to unlock their F2012's potential. "Yes, I am happy: not only because we finally did so much mileage without problems but above all because we managed to improve the car in a significant way," he said. "The situation has changed above all compared to the morning, especially from the point of view of consistency of the lap times. "The important thing is that, after having evaluated so many solutions, both on the exhausts and at the front, we are now taking a direction in which we can work to get the best set-up. "There's still a lot to do, for example on the exits of corners, but I'm satisfied and from the next Barcelona test we will be able to really start true and meaningful testing." As for his lap time, which put him fifth on the timesheets over a second behind pace-setter Kamui Kobayashi, the Ferrari driver says times were not the objective. "We could certainly have done a better lap time but that wasn't our target. We had so many things to test over the course of these few days and our priority was to identify what is worth working on for the early races " We managed that and now we can concentrate on those areas with a large margin for improvement, like set-up and how to use the tyres. "In the afternoon we were able to do some long series of laps with pretty consistent times, which I didn't manage in the morning.






    Can't wait till next week!

    RR

  7. #107
    PSB Corporate Sponsor RRossi's Avatar
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    Well I have ordered my 2012 windbreaker jacket direct from Italia and also bought a Team Shirt, all up setting me back $250.00AUD with express postage!!

    I should be one of the few with a genuine Ferrari replica Jacket at a fraction of the price!!


    and 3 days post WTF!! FTMFW!!


    FORZA FERRARI!!!

    960339321_160.jpg


    RR

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmands_3 View Post
    So on the fastest corner it is fine, but as soon as you exceed that speed the wing stalls and you get better straightline speed.
    Wouldn't stalling the wing have a negative effect? The loss of laminar airflow creates more drag than smooth flowing air. Surely a system that re-energises the boundary layer and helps the airflow to hug the wing in a more laminar profile would be more beneficial?
    A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.

    Dear god, it's some weird bastardized three wheeled two person go-kart.

  9. #109
    Member edmands_3's Avatar
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    They don't stall the full wing, they only stall the rear portion of it. There is an explanation here: F Ducts: How do they work? | Formula One technology | Racecar Engineering

    I think the reason it creates less drag is that as one piece it disrupts the airflow less than if it is two piece with a slot between. You probably get one set of vortices off the rear wing instead of two.

  10. #110
    Member Dr. Venkman's Avatar
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    The old argument about Melbourne being a night race has raised it's ugly head again :

    Night, night Melbourne

    Short version is that the current contrct will be honoured until 2015, beyond that the race will have to be a night race, whether that will happen is another thing, I cannot see the locals being very happy about it. What makes me scratch my head though is that, Sth Korea, Japan and Malaysia are not night races and yet all three are either the same time zone as WA or SA, I have yet to find any indications that these three will be forced into similar situations.
    The hardest part of the Zombie Apocalypse will be pretending that I'm not excited.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Venkman View Post
    The old argument about Melbourne being a night race has raised it's ugly head again :

    Night, night Melbourne

    Short version is that the current contrct will be honoured until 2015, beyond that the race will have to be a night race, whether that will happen is another thing, I cannot see the locals being very happy about it. What makes me scratch my head though is that, Sth Korea, Japan and Malaysia are not night races and yet all three are either the same time zone as WA or SA, I have yet to find any indications that these three will be forced into similar situations.
    Melbourne may even lose it all together, was talking to my Dad in Melbourne today and its in the newspaper there, they have to come up with 55mil before next year to keep the 2013 race?

    I think Melbourne is a great place to have the race, everything is so central and the trams work like clock work, the organisers really know what there doing, we manged to get from Albert Part to our Hotel in 45mins after the race, a massive feat considering how many people were there leaving at the same time! if that was WA expect a 2-3 hour trip, I mean it took us 1.5 hours to get into Barbs when they had Webber here with the RBR demo! lol

    Go Melbourne!!


    RR

  12. #112
    Member STEEDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Venkman View Post
    The old argument about Melbourne being a night race has raised it's ugly head again :

    Night, night Melbourne

    Short version is that the current contrct will be honoured until 2015, beyond that the race will have to be a night race, whether that will happen is another thing, I cannot see the locals being very happy about it. What makes me scratch my head though is that, Sth Korea, Japan and Malaysia are not night races and yet all three are either the same time zone as WA or SA, I have yet to find any indications that these three will be forced into similar situations.
    I am completely over the coverage this gets every bloody year. They will give up the F1 in 2015 unless F1 take if off them beforehand.

    There are new race tracks being built and new races announced every year! Eventually they are going to have to drop Melbourne to fit all the others in.

    There are other countries lined up begging Bernie to take it off us and give it to them. I cant wait until the USA round in Texas this year
    Circuit of the Americas

    Then there is this in New Jersey
    BBC Sport - New Jersey to host Grand Prix of America in 2013

    PS been to Singapore for the F1 under lights... It fucking rocks.

  13. #113
    PSB Corporate Sponsor RRossi's Avatar
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    can you see the cars well from the grandstands in a night race?

    I would love to go to a night race for the atmos but loved the last Melbourne Race as the weather was spot on at 28 deg and sunny,

    was such a great dy for a race!!

    RR

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRossi View Post
    can you see the cars well from the grandstands in a night race?
    RR

    Think of watching the qatar motogp under lights on telly, everything is lit up light a christmas tree.


  15. #115
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    well here are yesterday's times:


    Unofficial Thursday test times from Barcelona:
    1. Romain Grosjean, Lotus, 1:23.252, 73 Laps
    2. Jenson Button, McLaren, 1:23.510, 64 Laps
    3. Sergio Perez, Sauber, 1:23.820, 118 Laps
    4. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:23.830, 102 Laps
    5. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, 1:23.992, 128 Laps
    6. Jean-Eric Vergne, Toro Rosso, 1:24.216, 113 Laps
    7. Paul di Resta, Force India, 1:24.305, 98 Laps
    8. Felipe Masssa, Ferrari, 1:24.318, 105 Laps
    9. Vitaly Petrov, Caterham, 1:24.876, 123 Laps
    10. Pastor Maldonado, Williams, 1:25.587, 58 Laps


    To note lotus on top, they must have really sorted there floor out?

    Today will see the top guns testing so the times should fall a little, not long now till Friday Practise!!


    RR

  16. #116
    Member Dr. Venkman's Avatar
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    Times from the final day of testing in Barcelona :

    1. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus) 1:22.030 (164 laps)
    2. Sergio Perez (Sauber) 1:22.094 (232)
    3. Jenson Button (McLaren) 1:22.103 (108)
    4. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso) 1:22.155 (231)
    5. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) 1:22.250 (240)
    6. Bruno Senna (Williams) 1:22.296 (212)
    7. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India) 1:22.312 (137)
    8. Kamui Kobayashi (Sauber) 1:22.386 (149)
    9. Felipe Massa (Ferrari) 1:22.413 (227),
    10. Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) 1:22.430 (180)

    Lotus on top again, apparently Seb borked it and damaged the front wing in the morning session, the Red Bull also had gearbox problems.

    Quote from Ross Brawn :

    "There are five or six teams that are a much closer grouping than we have seen for a number of years. I think we're going to have a really exciting season. It could be one of the best years we've seen for a number of years."
    Going on the times that we've seen, I hope that we have a really competitive season. Anyone reckon that Vettel is sweating a little? His teammate all of a sudden a lot closer, most of the teams, especially those at the top end of the mid tier, appear to have made big jumps in performance. Significantly Ferrari have struggled with the car after early progress, Pat Fry has admitted on the Ferrari website that he does not think that they will be in the mix for a podium at Melbourne.
    The hardest part of the Zombie Apocalypse will be pretending that I'm not excited.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Venkman View Post
    Quote from Ross Brawn :
    Going on the times that we've seen, I hope that we have a really competitive season. Anyone reckon that Vettel is sweating a little? His teammate all of a sudden a lot closer, most of the teams, especially those at the top end of the mid tier, appear to have made big jumps in performance. Significantly Ferrari have struggled with the car after early progress, Pat Fry has admitted on the Ferrari website that he does not think that they will be in the mix for a podium at Melbourne.
    If the top runners are closers this year it will prove whether Vettel can really do it, its easy to win from pole but harder when you got to fight for it.

    Looks like Ferrari will have good qualifying pace, the rumor is that they are able to smash out few quick laps then the performance falls off for some unknown reason atm. Be interesting none the less

  18. #118
    Member STEEDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido View Post
    If the top runners are closers this year it will prove whether Vettel can really do it, its easy to win from pole but harder when you got to fight for it.

    Looks like Ferrari will have good qualifying pace, the rumor is that they are able to smash out few quick laps then the performance falls off for some unknown reason atm. Be interesting none the less
    Yep I think the switch to Pirelli tyres last year hurt a few of the drivers who were really hard on the tyres causing them to pit more (Mark Webber + Lewis Hamilton) where as other drivers thrived on them. Pirelli have resolved a lot of their issues and the feedback from the teams is that the revised tyre compounds and reduced amount of aerodynamic down force on the 2012 cars will naturally bring the pack back together and actually favour the "drivers" out there and not just the "qualifiers". Webber must have passed more cars than anyone else last year? He just couldn’t qualify consistently - not to mention his KERS issues.

    I cant fkn wait until next week.

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    Member rcradical's Avatar
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    Same here!! Not long to go now!

    Roll call of people who are actually heading there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Semi View Post
    I ride slowly because I'm a massive faggot.

  20. #120
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    So both HRT and Marussia have launched their cars, there are quite a few images of them but nothing really that shows the car off "properly"

    Interestingly the Marussia does not have a stepped nose like the rest of the field, except the McLarens, during my poking about on the net I also learned that there is a technical tie in with McLaren, maybe some of the Woking boys helped the designers at Marussia. The reason that they (Marussia) weren't at Barcelona because they had failed a crash test, there are 18 of them, I have been unable to find confirmation but the rumour is that the one they failed was a rear end shunt test.

    I have to say that the livery for this season is pretty striking for it too, bright red and black diagonal stripes.

    The HRT has the de riguer slant nose configuration, has passed its shunt tests and the team are positive that they will be on the grid in Melbourne, the livery though is pretty bland, mainly white with some gold and red stripes, the side pods have no sponsor logos in the shots that I have seen, so maybe they are still finalising sponsors.
    The hardest part of the Zombie Apocalypse will be pretending that I'm not excited.

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