P plater laws passed

[snowman95]

I wonder how long before the ever present michelle roberts adopts it in WA

actually i think it would be good...

From http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/s...storyid=3244811

"Roads Minister Michael Costa will today announce that from July 11:

P1 and P2 licence holders will be banned from driving turbo-charged, super-charged vehicles (diesel vehicles excepted), eight-cylinder vehicles and those with engine performance modifications. Exemptions will apply where powerful vehicles are required for genuine employment purposes, and where eight-cylinder 4WD vehicles are required by rural drivers;

A LIMIT of one passenger for 12 months will apply for P1 and P2 drivers who lose their licence because of a serious driving offence. The passenger restriction will apply when the licence is reissued"

[Pandaold]

Its about time. Honestly. You can do more damage to an innocent person in a v8 or whatever then you can do on a powerful bike. Yet Bike riders have to wait a year for the ability to legally ride a bigger bike?! Get a 17yr old behind the wheel of mum and dads v8 commodore, with his mates and a carton of piss in the back and thats ok. Thats fine. I mean come on. He isnt a hoon on a bike or anything.

[horse]

about time, although they could have been more strict than they where imo
the things i got up to in the 'ol torana with stock six, never needed a v8

[duffman]

i like it. its logical, and it should have happened years ago.

really thou, its just 1 of the many flaws in the system.
it will still produce drivers who dont have skills to handle a car on the road.
bring on compulsory advanced driving courses.

something else id also like to see, although it may be concidered as racist and sexist, is no female asian should ever be given a license.

[MeLLe]

Give it 10 years, no wait, make it 15....

It needs to happen, weather or not is a different thing.

If I have to ride a 250cc for a year to learn how to ride, why can someone with a car licence go get anycar and pray for the best.

[Foofie Foofie]

Originally posted by Panda@Jun 7 2005, 10:25 PM
Its about time. Honestly. You can do more damage to an innocent person in a v8 or whatever then you can do on a powerful bike. Yet Bike riders have to wait a year for the ability to legally ride a bigger bike?!* Get a 17yr old behind the wheel of mum and dads* v8 commodore, with his mates and a carton of piss in the back and thats ok. Thats fine. I mean come on. He isnt a hoon on a bike or anything.

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Wrong . Really wrong . This is a knee-jerk reaction to a problem with a cheap sollution .

Forget the carton of piss , thats assuming , and assumptions are the mother of all f__kups . We know bike riders drink too , as displayed as they smeared themselves infront of Cheers a few weeks ago .

Lets look at the V8 and turbo car . My first real car (on P's) was a 500hp Chev with another 150hp of Nitrous . Im alive . Why is that ? . Ok .... i may have raced and had some logic before hand , sure , so whats the excuse for educating drivers ? ..... none . We refuse to educate , because it costs money . Instead we will add a bandaid law . It wont work .

Lets look at it logically , or bike VS car .

Would a K5 gixer thou, be safer to ride than a CBR250RR ? . No . Hence why this works with bikes. Now can the same be said about a VN 3.8L Crumpledoor , being safer than a 2L turbo Nissan 180sx for eg ? . Hmmm .... the 180 is lighter, therefore it isnt taxed by the laws of physics as much . It has MUCH better brakes . The suspension is a lot better and years ahead in technology and design. Ok so please tell me HOW a V6 commo is a better car ? . Please tell me how its safer .... and please tell me how its going to save lives ? .

Im all honesty , you cant , and i know this , as this is what i do for a living, work on such cars. And they shall say "The potential in a turbo or V8 car is ..... " , ok , newsflash , people can just as easily die in a Charade or a V6 Crumpledoor ..... its not the speed that kills , its the stop at the end .

So .... i stand by my point, that cars are not built equal, bigger is not allways better (unlike with bikes) and the laws are passed as a cheap cure, that wont really cure a thing. You will never stop dickheadism and you will never teach people how to drive when such lawmakers run this country .



EDIT : In all honesty, if i had a child at 17 , stepping into a car , and the choice was say a Cortina, or a 85 Telstar, a Daewoo Matiz or a Celica GT4 AWD turbo .... id pick the last one. I know a lot of people would not, and its a mental block, but its the same reason many people will say that a CBR250RR is a much safer bike then being on a Yamaha Zuma.

[Melkor]

Originally posted by saf@Jun 8 2005, 12:00 AM
EDIT : In all honesty, if i had a child at 17 , stepping into a car , and the choice was say a Cortina, or a 85 Telstar, a Daewoo Matiz or a Celica GT4 AWD turbo .... id pick the last one. I know a lot of people would not, and its a mental block, but its the same reason many people will say that a CBR250RR is a much safer bike then being on a Yamaha Zuma.

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Hi Dad!

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by saf@Jun 8 2005, 12:00 AM
EDIT : In all honesty, if i had a child at 17 , stepping into a car , and the choice was say a Cortina, or a 85 Telstar, a Daewoo Matiz or a Celica GT4 AWD turbo .... id pick the last one. I know a lot of people would not, and its a mental block, but its the same reason many people will say that a CBR250RR is a much safer bike then being on a Yamaha Zuma.

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Would you get me a celica gt4 awd turbo if I called you daddy?

Ok, jokes aside. I do agree with you that it is a bandaid sorta solution but I still foresee it working compared to the no restrictions they have at the moment. Like everything else, all factors being the same, it all comes down to the person. I may not have gotten a 500hp car as my first but I can honestly say that I did my time beforehand in a much slower car. That was not by choice but rather the size of my wallet at that point. Having learnt how to actually drive in that shitty ol bomb, I can without a single doubt say it did me good. Had I gotten something slightly more powerful, it would be highly likely I wrecked the car or did some serious damage to myself/others. What I drive now is still not considered a high end performance car but it is fast enough to be very dangerous (I'm sure Young Gun can vouch for that). Now armed with a decent skill level of driving, I'm not being a danger to myself or others out there.

What I'm trying to say is, if the general public can't decide whats best for them, the government would have to. And in this particular case (rather ONLY in this case) the people passing this law have my vote.

edit: damn! melkor beat me to the daddy joke!

[Foofie Foofie]

Originally posted by Melkor@Jun 8 2005, 12:30 AM
Hi Dad!

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Your not 17 Melkor ..... and no ... im not paying child support ! . You are NOT my son .

[Foofie Foofie]

Originally posted by 1100101@Jun 8 2005, 12:35 AM
I may not have gotten a 500hp car as my first* but I can honestly say that I did my time beforehand in a much slower car.

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Actually i didnt get one either, it was a combination of total combined race winnings up to the point where i broke my back, and a whopping $8000 dollar (Eight , not eighty) insurance payout for life long dissability .

I understand the point that you make of learning to drive, and you re-enforce my exact feeling with that sentence. Having compulsory perf driving done at the time you get your lic , regaurdless if its a 1.3L Echo or a 383stroker SB Chev , will do MORE now and for the future , than teach kids how to pass a test and drive and "learn" such skills as time passes on the road . Learning may result in killing a fellow bike rider when he/she merges incorrectly.

I love the German approach . A lic costs many thousands of dollars , you get TAUGHT , and on your second lesson your taken onto the Autobahn to do a 220kph steady cruise. This is why in Europe you can own a CBR1000RR Fireblade , or a Subaru STI WRX as a first car, and STILL have a fraction of the accidents and fatalaties we have in Aus . Education .

Displacement or forced aspiration means - nothing. Driving skill , lessons learnt ina safe enviroment mean everything . But thats only my humble opinion . Having said that, my mate has a 700rwhp Twin Turbo Supra, and he cant drive for shit . He also had a RGV250 for 2 weeks when he got his lic, then bought a CBR1000RR and rides that a lot better than most open class riders.

[Pkunk]

Originally posted by saf@Jun 8 2005, 12:00 AM
EDIT : In all honesty, if i had a child at 17 , stepping into a car , and the choice was say a Cortina, or a 85 Telstar, a Daewoo Matiz or a Celica GT4 AWD turbo .... id pick the last one. I know a lot of people would not, and its a mental block, but its the same reason many people will say that a CBR250RR is a much safer bike then being on a Yamaha Zuma.

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i think its best to look at it case by case

Any parent who lets their child get behind the wheel of something that could bite their son/daughter in the ass is just plain neglectful

I mean id consider S13's (silvias/180sx's) bloody piss easy to drive... but only because ive a few years of experience under my belt

Do P platers really need ACTUAL sports cars ? Hell most of them drive lancers anyway, i hear they are "sports" cars hahaha

i drove an integra on my P's -> has a revvy N/A engine that wont bite you in the ass (lack of torque + FWD). Had i been given pretty much anything RWD on my P's id have gotten myself into trouble at least once

But as for regulations, since im no longer a P plater, i no longer care, so bloody hell be strict on those whippersnappers i say !!

[Ice]

If I pretend I'm 17 and call you Daddy can I drive a certain white vehicle that resides in your garage????????

It's all about education. Not vehicle power. What needs to be stopped is all the bad driving parents who learned from their bad driver parents and will pass on those skills to their children who will in turn teach their own children. It's no wonder there are so many dumbass drivers out there.

Lessons from an acredited instructor should be a legal requirement then advanced driver training after a year. If I had learned from my Mum I'd be a shocking driver simply because she has no idea how to impart knowledge or pick up on subtle things I'm doing wrong. It scares me how many people learn to drive by hit and miss methods and are then let loose on our roads. Educate. A Toyota starlet is still a deadly weapon in the hands of the uneducated.

[Pandaold]

I completely hear your points.

Im a kalgoorlie girl. And to be honest, if your 17/18 (perhaps just in Kalgoorlie) and in your car without a carton of beer.. then.. yer it's a real bloody surprise.- so thats why the assumption

But yes, the cops and government could be doing alot more then making up bullshit laws to just stop kids from doing certain things. Just like bringing in a night curfew. That just seems silly. Instead of putting in a couple of hours and educating people when they are about to get their licence or whatever, they think. shit, stuff all that effort. Lets just make a law up - that way it looks like we are doing something and we get extra money dishing out fines to people who refuse to follow them. Excellent this works for all. Im just happy they are starting to see theres is some kinda problem happening, maybe one day it'll click and they will start some educating.

But also. Im hoping parents would teach their kids a little of their own knowledge before being happy to let them on them out there.

And yep a dickhead is always a dickhead no matter how long he has to be behind the wheel of a barina or whatever.

[dugy]

Of course it's not the ideal solution.
But if it saves a even a few kids, it's a start.

SAF's comments on real driver education, would be great, if only the gov. could see the the bigger picture.
That would cost them too many votes.
I've always said piloting a heap of steel around the roads should be a privilege and not the "god given right" people think it is.

And now the cops over there have one more law to deal with that'll have brat's giving them greif.

[sathid]

A LIMIT of one passenger for 12 months will apply for P1 and P2 drivers who lose their licence because of a serious driving offence. The passenger restriction will apply when the licence is reissued"

so now we'll have two cars each with two kids on the road, driving together instead of four kids in one car.....not sure if thats much better really...

I agree with most of what you said saf, and unfortunately a lot of the time, the kids who buy (or who's parents buy) themselves nice hot cars, are often the ones who shouldn't be driving them....
I learned to drive from a young age (9) and i'm sure in this respect growing up in the country and being allowed to drive solo on the road at 14 and 15 was probably advantageous.

I think that kids should be taught more about how a car works. I remember as a nine year old in a paddock in a leyland mini, being taught by my (10 year old) cousin how to drive, that the concept of needing to clutch when braking to a stop, was hard to grasp. I just kept forgetting. Once I got on a bike, and actually learned what the clutch did, it just became second nature.

Unfortunately a lot of the time it is stupidity and carelessness rather than actual driving ability that results in accidents.


Needs to be more care taken when giving people who've come from overseas drivers licenses. The number of bad drivers around curtin uni....

[Oddz]

Saf...

You know as well as anyone dude.....these kids are getting into Sils and skylines and thinking they are Ken Nomura and smashing them into poles...

All you need to do is look at the SilviaWA forums and the signatures of some of the retards in there who have a RUNNING TALLY of the number of Silvias they have written off. I agree with your argument about the technology that goes into the performance cars, but similar input goes into the lower horespower models of these cars....I would much rather see these kids driving NA's.

If the latest influx of "D1_DRFTA" and "Newb_Drifta" etc on those forums are anything to go by, I'd like to see these guys walking rather than driving at all....or a pushie, thats a good option too.

Education of younger drivers and possibly a revision of the licensing system (pffft YEAH RIGHT!) would be a much better option, but we all know it's not going to happen. Lot's of youngins can drive and are quite capable of handling a higher horsepower car, but for the ones who have ruined it for them I would much rather see all of the P platers hit with the same rules rather than Blue GTR's with 17 year old drivers and a pregnant girl and her boyfriend in the back seat turning into a red mist from doing 200+ in the wrong environment at the wrong time because their minds simply haven't adjusted and developed enough to think "hey wait this is a bad idea....I shouldn't do this"

Russ

[ONYERBIKE]

Originally posted by sathid+Jun 8 2005, 08:34 AM-->

so now we'll have two cars each with two kids on the road, driving together instead of four kids in one car.....not sure if thats much better really...

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[/b]

Sathid, if you read the quote properly

<!--QuoteBegin-snowman95@ Jun 7 2005, 10:17 PM
A LIMIT of one passenger for 12 months will apply for P1 and P2 drivers who lose their licence because of a serious driving offence. The passenger restriction will apply when the licence is reissued"

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it&#39;s only the ones that loose their licence, that get that restriction, I don&#39;t think the numbers would be that high, but I could be wrong

[aaargh1]

i say yay hey
restriction for p&#39;s is a good thing....
maybe an apptitude test for drivers who can handle themselves a powerfull car could compensate the people who must have theese monster cars

my 2c

[dugy]

Originally posted by Oddz@Jun 8 2005, 07:44 AM
All you need to do is look at the SilviaWA forums and the signatures of some of the retards in there who have a RUNNING TALLY of the number of Silvias they have written off.

Well at least natural selection is trying to do its thing and get them off the road.

[sathid]

aaah. lol. damn skim reading.


actually it&#39;s interesting in regards to the whole writing off cars thing. Friend of mine had her car totalled by a guy who lost control and slammed into her up near lancelin. Apparently the guy was following his mates (who were all in the car in front of him - noone in his car) because they were all too afraid to drive with him. He was fooling around swerving and lost control, and went over to the wrong side of the road.
apparently he&#39;d had the car less than a week, after having totalled his last 3 (2 of which apparently had court cases pending in regards to the incidents)

now why would you give a kid like that a new car?
should be banned for at least 5 years until he has grown a brain.
seriously f*cked up