The "pub chat" thread. *NSFW*

[lee]

pub,

it broke my heart to read about the 40 something dude that got his license the other day, killed himself on a harley on the same day. it's a bit of a soft spot because i know a few people wanting to get their big bikes/r class after years of procrastination. yes there is a million other things he could have done to prevent it himself, but what the fuck are our road safety initiatives doing to prevent this? after all, that is their function, to increase ROAD SAFETY.

stickering sports bikes to meet quotas? don't see how that helps anything
camping at wanneroo fining people for crossing double whites? don't see how that helps
relentless campaign of catching speeders at the bottom of hills, & in stupid speed limit locations like for e.g. the 80 zone before it goes 100 around the city on the freeway? don't see how that helps
completely ignoring the need for driver training? could have prevented this tragedy

can someone please fill me in anything they're doing that could have helped this guy? i can't think of one "initiative"

how many people have to die before people wise up to the fact these "professionals" are incompetent. surely the number must be massive, because our road toll is disgraceful and the general populous are still lapping the same old tripe up.

i don't know how these people sleep at night, a lot of blood is on the ORS/wapol/rob johnsons/RAC/everyone else involved's hands.

[Mr John]

Disgraceful, well put Lee

[drifter]

they do whatever they can to get votes from an ageing population.

[lee]

they do whatever they can to get votes from an ageing population.

The RAC and ORS don't require votes, they keep pushing the same old shit expecting different results, while West Australians are dying senseless deaths and families are ruined, day in, day out.

[The Saint]

The ORS doesn't require votes

No, but it is subservient to someone who does.



I wonder in whose electorate a motorcyclist died yesterday?

[Mutiny!]

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[Dragunov-21]

can someone please fill me in anything they're doing that could have helped this guy? i can't think of one "initiative"

how many people have to die before people wise up to the fact these "professionals" are incompetent.

I don't disagree on your assessment of the current initiatives' effectiveness, but can you really think of something the government could have done?

Admittedly, all you've said is "he killed himself on it", but it sounds like you feel that the big bike was a factor in his death.

What are you thinking? A more-graduated license system? A better training system as part of the license process (perhaps a la Tasmania and whomever else does it)?

I just find it a bit of a double standard that "we" complain that our state/country is a nanny-state, then complain that it's not doing enough to protect its citizens from going out on high-powered machinery and getting hurt.

Education is the answer to road safety, I think, but where riders are concerned, it's primarily in the riders' best interest to be proactive, and learn about and practise the finer points of controlling a bike off their own bat.

(If I've misread, or your post was facetious, my bad)

[Aphex]

I don't disagree on your assessment of the current initiatives' effectiveness, but can you really think of something the government could have done?

Admittedly, all you've said is "he killed himself on it", but it sounds like you feel that the big bike was a factor in his death.

What are you thinking? A more-graduated license system? A better training system as part of the license process (perhaps a la Tasmania and whomever else does it)?

I just find it a bit of a double standard that "we" complain that our state/country is a nanny-state, then complain that it's not doing enough to protect its citizens from going out on high-powered machinery and getting hurt.

Education is the answer to road safety, I think, but where riders are concerned, it's primarily in the riders' best interest to be proactive, and learn about and practise the finer points of controlling a bike off their own bat.

(If I've misread, or your post was facetious, my bad)

I think you'll find lee was being quite serious. There's a fuck load the govt could do to enhance road safety and right now is the time to make noise about it as it's the 10 year review is on the table. The target for the last 10 years was 40% reduction in the road toll, but having only achieved 36%, they've lowered their expectations to 30% for the next 10 years. Speed limits is one of the things being eyed off.

One of the answers is of course improved driver training. The blanket approach of financial punishment does nothing but line the coffers and we've seen fines increase + more cameras time & time again (and this is where the whole nanny state bullshit comes from). Yet, it keeps happening. Fortunately, the lemmings are starting to awaken to the fact it's nothing but revenue raising, and are starting to rattle the cage a little which in turn is forcing the govt to at least consider real alternatives.

This subject has been discussed ad infinitum here many times and the results are always the same with driver training and increased speed limits being popular improvements.

[The Saint]

Increasing the penalty for contravention of reg 113 of the Road Traffic Code 2000 to six demerit points and six penalty units would be an improvement popular with me.

Yes, Subaru 4WD 1DLZ954, I'm talking to you.

[lee]

I don't disagree on your assessment of the current initiatives' effectiveness, but can you really think of something the government could have done?

Admittedly, all you've said is "he killed himself on it", but it sounds like you feel that the big bike was a factor in his death.

What are you thinking? A more-graduated license system? A better training system as part of the license process (perhaps a la Tasmania and whomever else does it)?

I just find it a bit of a double standard that "we" complain that our state/country is a nanny-state, then complain that it's not doing enough to protect its citizens from going out on high-powered machinery and getting hurt.

Education is the answer to road safety, I think, but where riders are concerned, it's primarily in the riders' best interest to be proactive, and learn about and practise the finer points of controlling a bike off their own bat.

(If I've misread, or your post was facetious, my bad)

The ORS's current standing on more driver education/defensive driving courses etc is that it makes you a better hoon, so they won't support it. How uneducated and arrogant, to enforce your own unfounded opinion over the whole state, while people die as a result of it?

I think this harley dude actually having to do an emergency brake or two, go round some corners at decent speed and some better theory involved in the licensing process would have prevented his death (ala German driver education)

I'm not complaining about a nanny state, and then turning around and saying they should have given this dude a yellow sticker and a speeding fine. I'm saying these uneducated, biased, bigoted gits are turning a blind eye to legit advice, and instead making shit up and announcing "research has shown.." in public releases.

I'm deeply offended after probably what, 6-8 years of this "speed kills" twat, people are still dying every christmas due to unrelated matters, and they're peddling this cash cow they're so fond of in the name of "road safety". They're either incredibly fucking stupid and misinformed, or they're moral-less liars.

[Magilla]

The big issue with changing driver training to make it more comprehensive, like the German system, is that it will mean that parents won't be able to instruct their kids, and will have to find qualified instructors and skidpans and stuff. Why is that a bad thing? Because it's going to prevent a huge percentage of regional and rural people from being able to get a license at all.

Instituting a system that only works for metro dwellers doesn't work for the state.

[drifter]

The big issue with changing driver training to make it more comprehensive, like the German system, is that it will mean that parents won't be able to instruct their kids, and will have to find qualified instructors and skidpans and stuff. Why is that a bad thing? Because it's going to prevent a huge percentage of regional and rural people from being able to get a license at all.

Instituting a system that only works for metro dwellers doesn't work for the state.

more jobs opps in regional areas. building skid pans and starting driving school businesses.
no bad habits being passed on by parents.

[Aphex]

The big issue with changing driver training to make it more comprehensive, like the German system, is that it will mean that parents won't be able to instruct their kids, and will have to find qualified instructors and skidpans and stuff. Why is that a bad thing? Because it's going to prevent a huge percentage of regional and rural people from being able to get a license at all.

Instituting a system that only works for metro dwellers doesn't work for the state.

If this country is to progress at all, at some point in time some one some where is just going to have to suck it up. There will be no way of keeping everyone happy all of the time.

Allowances could be made for country drivers over the course of an implimentation phase after which time local coppers or other public servants could be trained to operate a regional advanced driver training facility that operates a few days a week. If you live in the bush, you're inconvenienced by an awful lot of shit anyway and people manage.

Pandering to fucking minorities will be the death of this country if we allow it.

[The Saint]

Why is that a bad thing? Because it's going to prevent a huge percentage of regional and rural people from being able to get a license at all.

I hear ya: because a more comprehensive licensing system would have a disproportionately adverse impact upon the ability of rural and regional residents to obtain a licence, we'll maintain a less comprehensive licensing system that gives metropolitan and rural residents alike an equal chance of inadequate training, fucking up and dying.

It might be deadly, but at least it's fair.

[shmoo]

It might be deadly, but at least it's fair.

But it's not resulting in equality in deaths is it? Aren't country people more likely to die on the roads?

[The Saint]

Aren't country people more likely to die on the roads?

Wait a second ... there are less multanovas on country roads ...

OH MY GOD THEY WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG

[Magilla]

Aren't country people more likely to die on the roads?

I thought it was that city people are more likely to die on country roads.

And the "screw the country people" sentiment is touching, guys. Really.

[The Saint]

And the "screw the country people" sentiment is touching, guys. Really.

Just trying to keep you guys safe brah

[Magilla]

Just trying to raise the number of people driving without a license brah

Keep in mind that, however bad the public transport is in Perth, there's next to none out here.

[Roger Explosion]

I thought it was that city people are more likely to die on country roads.

And the "screw the country people" sentiment is touching, guys. Really.

Have a look at the amount of country fatalities that are the result of not using a seatbelt. When ever I have the joy of taking in GWN news when down south, it always seems to feature the local rozzer giving a statement containing the words rollover and flung from vehicle.
If it make you feel better, I think city drivers are just as bad.