Anyone an Aircraft engineer

[lethalw]

what hangar you work from flyboy...? chances are we've dropped a plane off there at some point over the years...

[Flyboy]

I work in Hangar 214. Between the Qantas regional terminals and and Complete Aviation. If you can remember the hangar where they serviced the Macchi's, its the one right next to that.

[THE GODFATHER]

Originally Posted by likefry

I'm looking at getting an apprenticeship in this field and i am looking for info about it.

Seriously! Why do you want to be a LAME or AME? The pay is shithouse unless you are in group 20 aircraft or better.
I have a mate who is one. Always winging about the money. Loves his job though.
Buggard if I would do the job. Pay is less than any other industry, blame is all yours if a plane crashes. Sleepless nights eetc. Mmmm! You are either crazy or mad about planes. Which would it be?????????

[Aphex]

Originally Posted by THE GODFATHER

Seriously! Why do you want to be a LAME or AME? The pay is shithouse unless you are in group 20 aircraft or better.
I have a mate who is one. Always winging about the money. Loves his job though.
Buggard if I would do the job. Pay is less than any other industry, blame is all yours if a plane crashes. Sleepless nights eetc. Mmmm! You are either crazy or mad about planes. Which would it be?????????

As with any other industry, the pay is always shithouse until you stop whinging and get on with exceeding expectations.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by THE GODFATHER

Seriously! Why do you want to be a LAME or AME? The pay is shithouse unless you are in group 20 aircraft or better.
I have a mate who is one. Always winging about the money. Loves his job though.
Buggard if I would do the job. Pay is less than any other industry, blame is all yours if a plane crashes. Sleepless nights eetc. Mmmm! You are either crazy or mad about planes. Which would it be?????????

Once my license turns up, I won't be accepting any offers under 100k per year. Plus if its an airline I'll be asking for shift penalities and ID90.

Record numbers of engineers are retiring, which is pushing wages through the roof. And its not hard to get a group 20 license either. I'll come out of my apprenticeship with 3.

And where does your mate work?

[likefry]

Originally Posted by THE GODFATHER

Seriously! Why do you want to be a LAME or AME? The pay is shithouse unless you are in group 20 aircraft or better.
I have a mate who is one. Always winging about the money. Loves his job though.
Buggard if I would do the job. Pay is less than any other industry, blame is all yours if a plane crashes. Sleepless nights eetc. Mmmm! You are either crazy or mad about planes. Which would it be?????????

because it interests me and i think i would enjoy it.

Plus i've found theres alot of different areas that you can work on with planes (like engines airfram electrics) as opposed to a relatively small work area in other industries

[Aphex]

Dont listen to that diatribe. Its utter rubbish fry...

[likefry]

don't worry i'm not

[out_in_front]

I have to admit I dont like tradies being called 'engineers' when really they are 'mechanics' etc

I suppose it's only a name but it kinda cheapens all the Aeronautical engineers who actualy design the plane in the first place. (only my opinion - not trying to shit stir)

[Aphex]

Originally Posted by out_in_front

I have to admit I dont like tradies being called 'engineers' when really they are 'mechanics' etc

I suppose it's only a name but it kinda cheapens all the Aeronautical engineers who actualy design the plane in the first place. (only my opinion - not trying to shit stir)

LAMEs are a little more than run of the mill mechanics

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by out_in_front

I have to admit I dont like tradies being called 'engineers' when really they are 'mechanics' etc

I suppose it's only a name but it kinda cheapens all the Aeronautical engineers who actualy design the plane in the first place. (only my opinion - not trying to shit stir)

When I design, manufacture, heat treat and install a component am I a engineer, or a mechanic?

All this bullshit about having to have a uni degree to be an engineer. What do 'mechanical engineers' or 'aeronautical engineers' do? They design things. They're designers.....like an architect who draws up a house design. They get everyone else to do the real work. I've met a lot of uni qualified engineers in my time, and I wouldn't trust one of them to change a wheel on my car, let alone give them a task that requires even a little thought like changing an engine. Better yet, I'll give them a rivet gun and a stringer section and see how quickly they make a mess of things. Brain skills does not equal hand skills.

What did engineers do in the very first place? They built and maintained engines! Black-hander stuff. They didn't sit in an airconditioned office.

Not shit stirring, just saying how it is.

[out_in_front]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

When I design, manufacture, heat treat and install a component am I a engineer, or a mechanic?

I do know plenty of mechanics that can do that...

Originally Posted by Flyboy

All this bullshit about having to have a uni degree to be an engineer. What do 'mechanical engineers' or 'aeronautical engineers' do? They design things. They're designers.....like an architect who draws up a house design. They get everyone else to do the real work. I've met a lot of uni qualified engineers in my time, and I wouldn't trust one of them to change a wheel on my car, let alone give them a task that requires even a little thought like changing an engine. Better yet, I'll give them a rivet gun and a stringer section and see how quickly they make a mess of things. Brain skills does not equal hand skills

So you can do all the calculations required to make sure the part you have made is suitable for the job?? I.e it will not provide any unbalanced loading, will maintain the same amount of Inertia, is as light as possible without mechanical compromise, made of a suitable material that has correct heat loadings / temperature stability. And are prepared to sign off on these calculations in the effect that people could sue you for millions if you were wrong (or execute you in certain countries)

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What did engineers do in the very first place? They built and maintained engines! Black-hander stuff. They didn't sit in an airconditioned office.

They came up with the design to start with, by maintaining it they learned about improvements and then had to start using maths to refine designs further. The initial parts would have had to have been made by smithy's and they had to make detailed design drawings to how all the parts worked / and how to make them. Yes I do agree that back in the day some engineers were the equivalent of a mechanic today, but not all of them were building and maintaining engines - someone had to design them in a way which would work.

[out_in_front]

BTW - I am not an engineer....

[THE GODFATHER]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Once my license turns up, I won't be accepting any offers under 100k per year. Plus if its an airline I'll be asking for shift penalities and ID90.

Record numbers of engineers are retiring, which is pushing wages through the roof. And its not hard to get a group 20 license either. I'll come out of my apprenticeship with 3.

And where does your mate work?

He was at China Southern, now at Hawker Pacific. Who actually pay quite well. Maybe rates are on the rise. Which is good. He loves his planes and would do it anyway. I am guessing it is an addiction. Bit like bikes. Its a passion, not a job.

[Flyboy]

His name wouldn't happen to be Andrew by any chance would it?

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by out_in_front

I do know plenty of mechanics that can do that...



So you can do all the calculations required to make sure the part you have made is suitable for the job?? I.e it will not provide any unbalanced loading, will maintain the same amount of Inertia, is as light as possible without mechanical compromise, made of a suitable material that has correct heat loadings / temperature stability. And are prepared to sign off on these calculations in the effect that people could sue you for millions if you were wrong (or execute you in certain countries)

I need to choose the suitable material for the job, ensure rivet diameters and spacing aren't too big or small for the load applied, apply different heat treatments to obtain correct material specifications, ensure bend radiuses don't exceed structural limits, determine whether a certain depth of damage renders a component unserviceable and so on. I also do Rockwell hardness tests.

In fact during a modification job, an aeronautical engineer came up with a design for a bracket. We said it was too weak, so we designed our own. Guess what, his broke and we replaced it with ours.....which is still in the aircraft today. My name is still on the MITCOM for that bracket. And I sign off on every bit of work I do because I'm confident I've done the job right, safely, and to the correct standards and specifications.

[out_in_front]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I need to choose the suitable material for the job, ensure rivet diameters and spacing aren't too big or small for the load applied, apply different heat treatments to obtain correct material specifications, ensure bend radiuses don't exceed structural limits, determine whether a certain depth of damage renders a component unserviceable and so on. I also do Rockwell hardness tests.

In fact during a modification job, an aeronautical engineer came up with a design for a bracket. We said it was too weak, so we designed our own. Guess what, his broke and we replaced it with ours.....which is still in the aircraft today. My name is still on the MITCOM for that bracket. And I sign off on every bit of work I do because I'm confident I've done the job right, safely, and to the correct standards and specifications.

So are you reading off tables with all this stuff or calculating the stresses in each rivet and how much shear loading the wing material can take? If you made a whole aircraft the way you made that bracket would it be to heavy to fly? Yes the engineers bracket did fail and obviously wasn't designed properly, but if it did fail and he had done all the correct calculations, he could walk out of a court hearing scott free - would you get away with that?

[Flyboy]

Nobody calculates the stress in each rivet. What does shear loading have to do with it? What if the part isn't in shear load?

And in regards to the court hearings etc.....it is apparent you have no idea about the industry, and are in fact talking out of your arse. "But i did the correct calculations..." would not stand up in court. You sign your name on that bit of paper, you are responsible. He may have done the correct calculations, but failed in the design and did not recognise that the part would potentially fail due to the loads applied to said part. He or she would be deemed negligent of their duties and would be charged with manslaughter for every passenger and crew member on that aircraft. It has happened, and does happen.

[-Stevo-]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

What do 'mechanical engineers' or 'aeronautical engineers' do? They design things. They're designers.....like an architect who draws up a house design. They get everyone else to do the real work. I've met a lot of uni qualified engineers in my time, and I wouldn't trust one of them to change a wheel on my car, let alone give them a task that requires even a little thought like changing an engine. Better yet, I'll give them a rivet gun and a stringer section and see how quickly they make a mess of things. Brain skills does not equal hand skills.

I think you both have some horrible misconceptions about what engineers can do...

YES, by definition flyboy is an engineer... maybe not a PROFESSIONAL engineer or a CHARTERED engineer.. but still an engineer nonetheless, using scientific principles and prior learning to predict how something will behave and fail, weighing up the economics versus safety and design...

That said, I know a few mechanical engineers who constantly design, build and test very complicated parts by themselves... using many different situations, construction methods and such until they have enough data/evidence to safely put that component into production


can it be back on topic time now please?

[THE GODFATHER]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

His name wouldn't happen to be Andrew by any chance would it?

Yep! We tend to call him Westie though. He's a good man. Though his balls shrank when he sold his bike.