Thinking of selling a bike privately? BE WARNED

Deej · 25-03-2008, 03:48 PM

Be warned, it is a common MO amongst motorbike thieves to test ride a bike that is advertised for sale, they hand over a fake DL, or a credit card or their car keys as security, and end up leaving the stolen car, fake keys, or the credit card that didn’t belong to the perp in the first place behind. They leave on your bike never to be seen again.

The second most common occurrence is someone test riding a bike, and when they are at the sellers house they check out what sort of storage and security the bike has, and then come back to steal it later the old fashioned way at a later date “yoink”!

SOME TIPS ON HOW TO REDUCE THE RISK

The safest way to sell your bike is to a licensed dealer or someone you know personally… obviously. But the issue is that the majority of people selling bikes want to get top dollar. This is understandable but you will bear the additional risk of dealing with the bike in this way. So therefore if you ABOLSULTY MUST sell the bike privately then you should consider doing the tips below which will not guarantee something bad happening, but it might mitigate the risk to an acceptable level:

1) When people contact you to arrange inspection of the advertised bike, meet them at a location that is not a location where the bike is normally housed, EG: Friends house, parents house, or the local BP Servo…. Right under the security camera.

2) When people call advise and disclose to them that “I am happy for you to come and visually/mechanically check the bike, but I will not be allowing test rides until such time as you (the buyer) have satisfied yourself that this is the bike you want, we have agreed on a price, and subject to a test ride the deal is done”. If the buyer says “but I wont know if I like the bike until I test ride it”, you can suggest that “it rides just like [insert make and model here] and perhaps you could satisfy yourself as to how that is by riding a dealers bike of the same vintage”.

3) If once you have agreed on a price, the buyer is happy with their visual inspection, and are satisfied and have agreed that subject to the test ride, the deal is done, have the buyer attend the test ride armed with 100 points of ID, just like the banks require. A current drivers license with photograph, a passport, a credit card in the same name, and a copy of a rates notice with their current address on it (which matches the other info provided).

4) Naturally make sure the lisense has an ‘R” class (or RE for <=250) on it.

5) On the day of the test ride hold this information, make a note of names, numbers, addressed etc whilst they are on the ride (or photocopy/scan if u have those facilities handy) and do not return it until they return with the bike....intact.

6) Set guidelines to the buyer as to what you will allow him to do on the bike and what you will not allow (IE: no breaking the law, speeding, fast corners, mingers, etc, and set a maximum time limit). Have a fellow PSB’r mate who has an above average set of riding skills and a equally capable bike attend the ride, and chaperone/follow the test rider just like a motorbike instructor and his student.

7) Leave only sufficient fuel in the bike to enable the bike to travel only a short distance in case they DO try to do a runner.

It sounds like allot of effort and an inconvenience to the prospective buyers but actually it is not. Firstly it shows prospective buyers that you are a serious seller, it qualifies the buyer and almost immediately removes time wasters and tire kickers. Most importantly thieves will phone the next guy who is an easier target. It is only the illegitimate buyer that will have a bit issue with your demands.

If, the prospective buyer wants you to ride the bike with the buyer as pillion for whatever reason such as they are not licensed in the relevant class, you wont be insured (see below) etc, then fine, but ensure again that you have your PSB’r mate follow on their bike either covertly or overtly just in case you are wrestled off your bike when stationary (not a hard thing to do when sitting directly behind someone).

AND FINALLY, INSURANCE WARNING...

Check your insurance policy. Most motorbike policies have an express condition that states that your motorbike WILL NOT BE INSURED if there is damage or theft as a result of your bike being test ridden for sale. For this very reason alone, no matter what you to do reduce the risk of something happening, if someone stacks your bike on a test ride, you will NOT be insured and it will be up to you to attempt to legally recover damages from the rider.

Good luck!

Deej

DAVA · 25-03-2008, 04:00 PM

some helpful tips there Deej. Having recently just sold a bike i had the same concerns. I was happy to trade it in and "loose" $500 or so rather than have strangers at the house. Luckily Potatoe Jones' neighbour stepped up instead as i'd rather see the bike going to a good home

Cam · 25-03-2008, 04:52 PM

When I sold my last bike I didn't hand out an address to anybody. I offered to meet them either at my office, or a neutral place of their chosing.

Be super, super careful peeps. Never invite a buyer to your home, meet at a point near it.

Zook SV · 25-03-2008, 08:43 PM

Just a thought. Most people have digital cameras now-a-days or at the very least phone cameras. Take a lot of photos. If they refuse to allow you to take a photo no ride! Take photos of the intended buyer, his mates and their number plates.

It won't stop them but it will give you a lot of ammunition to catch them.

And if the police can't / won't help, post the pics on PSB!

slaine · 25-03-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVA

some helpful tips there Deej. Having recently just sold a bike i had the same concerns. I was happy to trade it in and "loose" $500 or so rather than have strangers at the house. Luckily Potatoe Jones' neighbour stepped up instead as i'd rather see the bike going to a good home

Trust your intuition, if you do not feel comfortable , walk away or say no, we humans are very clever, if you dont feel like you trust someone, don't!

I didnt realise till later that i gave Dava $4500 cash to count, then waundered off for the vin number off the bike, but i knew in my heart of heart he was cool , and you all know when to trust some one and when not to, if you always get ripped off , protect yourself

ps love the bike man , cheers

alpha · 26-03-2008, 07:12 PM

Just out of curiosity, has anyone had a personal experience with bike being tested and stolen. I've been very lucky or naive. I've tested 4 bikes from private sellers and none have asked too many questions. It's scumbags out there that makes life difficult for us good guys now.

Deej · 26-03-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha

Just out of curiosity, has anyone had a personal experience with bike being tested and stolen. I've been very lucky or naive. I've tested 4 bikes from private sellers and none have asked too many questions. It's scumbags out there that makes life difficult for us good guys now.

Yes, I know two. One female who lost a R6, and one male who lost a ZX10 using this MO.

PHOBiA · 27-03-2008, 08:42 AM

Just out of curiosity, what if the buyer comes and you state they waved a knife around and took your bike. Would an insurance company pay out or would they say you gave them riding permissions?

Para045 · 27-03-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHOBiA

Just out of curiosity, what if the buyer comes and you state they waved a knife around and took your bike. Would an insurance company pay out or would they say you gave them riding permissions?

That is armed robbery, not you "giving" permission

Rider · 30-03-2008, 08:53 PM

I sold a bike to a guy who I didnt know if he was just wiered or if he was off his head on wizz.He didnt take it for a spin i just took him on the back it was only just around the block probabley not the best idea taking him but i wasnt intimidated and he looked like a genuane buyer had cash on him as well.

But as Slaine pointed out if they look suss take extra care...

Machast · 08-04-2008, 11:19 PM

once when I was hunting for a flatmate & advertised in the quokka, a technique I used was to fake being busy when they called, saying give me your number & I'll call back in 10 min (home phone no caller ID). BEFORE giving out any address details.
Firstly this gives some legitimacy to who they are- a theif with intent would most likely either try & avoid giving a contact number or fumble over trying to think up a fake one quickly.
Call them back in 10 and if they answer they're probably above board.
Secondly it's useful to call just before the arranged meeting time & confirm so you're not sitting around waiting for a no-show (or to call & see where the hell they are, if they're overdue).
And thirdly, if they're dumb enough to do a runner on your bike, you know the number they gave you is legit because they answered it back when you first arranged, so it won't be hard for the coppas to track them down.

Deej · 08-04-2008, 11:48 PM

some good tips there mach

Ryder · 09-04-2008, 05:41 PM

Another suggestion - consider riding the bike around to their place instead of them meeting you.
Then you can check thier licence against the street address you're at. a fake drivers lic won't help them much if the house on thier ID isn't theirs

True it's a bit of messing around for you, but it's better than putting off a potential buyer unnesesarily

Got to say, if I called up about a bike for sale and was told I couldn't test ride it, the seller most likely wouldn't get my money. For one, i don't like the fuck around, also, i'd wonder if there was a mechanical reason why i couldn't ride it. And if they wanted a cash deposit before a test ride, well, i wouldn't hand a large wad of cash to a complete stranger and hope they're on the level...

Sketch · 23-05-2008, 12:04 PM

hrmm, didn't have it stolen, but the test rider was reported speeding and pulling a mono past a local childcare centre which brought the constabulary to my door. :|

i only had his car keys and first name so i'm in the process of fighting a reckless charge as i cant provide appropriate information to the police as to who was riding it at the time.

BigTim · 23-05-2008, 12:43 PM

Nice. I'll have to remember that excuse

"No officer, wasn't me, someone was test riding my bike."

Desmogod · 23-05-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sketch

hrmm, didn't have it stolen, but the test rider was reported speeding and pulling a mono past a local childcare centre which brought the constabulary to my door. :|

i only had his car keys and first name so i'm in the process of fighting a reckless charge as i cant provide appropriate information to the police as to who was riding it at the time.

I presume he phoned you to take the bike for a test ride? Check your phone records for his number.
I fucking love it how you have to prove your innocence over here instead of them proving you guilty

ld357 · 23-05-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machast

a technique I used was to fake being busy when they called, saying give me your number & I'll call back in 10 min (home phone no caller ID). BEFORE giving out any address details.

Not to cause any offence, but if I were going to buy a bike and the seller did this, I'd think there was something dodgy going on.

My first reaction to being told they were busy would be "Ok, when's convenient for me to call you again then?" and being told not to do that and then asked for my own number would put me off a bit and have me wondering if something dodgy was going on with the sale.

I think your average (serious) buyer would be more understanding of a "cash left behind or no test ride" policy.

gulliver · 07-06-2008, 02:40 PM

Guys thanks for all the great info...

El Skitzo · 08-06-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryder

Another suggestion - consider riding the bike around to their place instead of them meeting you.

Exactly what I did today. The guy admitted that it wasn't exactly what he was after, and after sitting on the bike it didn't feel right for him (him 5 foot nothing vs me 6 feet). We did talk price, but he couldn't get up to where I wanted, so he didn't waste my time by asking for a test ride.

lulu35 · 08-08-2008, 08:46 PM

yes...important information these days when considering sale/purchase of a bike.

I must say I have used ebay to buy & sell 3 of my bikes including current bike...no probs. No test rides. No hassels & very happy with the ebay process. A matter of making the necessary title checks...

Funny story...sold a 04' Harley Sportster via ebay for $16000 to a fellow in QLD. As it turned out he was deaf & unable to speak. All negotiations were done with his 10 old son over the phone. I must say...I had reservations. BUT money was deposited in the bank within 24hrs without a bike inspection & a bike courier collected the bike from our gargage two weeks later! I still laugh about the ease of transaction on this one!

Never look a gift horse in the mouth :-)

25-03-2008, 03:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Deej Ducati D16RR \| Yamaha R1SP \| Vespa GTS250ie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SOR Posts: 8,622	Thinking of selling a bike privately? BE WARNED Be warned, it is a common MO amongst motorbike thieves to test ride a bike that is advertised for sale, they hand over a fake DL, or a credit card or their car keys as security, and end up leaving the stolen car, fake keys, or the credit card that didn’t belong to the perp in the first place behind. They leave on your bike never to be seen again. The second most common occurrence is someone test riding a bike, and when they are at the sellers house they check out what sort of storage and security the bike has, and then come back to steal it later the old fashioned way at a later date “yoink”! SOME TIPS ON HOW TO REDUCE THE RISK The safest way to sell your bike is to a licensed dealer or someone you know personally… obviously. But the issue is that the majority of people selling bikes want to get top dollar. This is understandable but you will bear the additional risk of dealing with the bike in this way. So therefore if you ABOLSULTY MUST sell the bike privately then you should consider doing the tips below which will not guarantee something bad happening, but it might mitigate the risk to an acceptable level: 1) When people contact you to arrange inspection of the advertised bike, meet them at a location that is not a location where the bike is normally housed, EG: Friends house, parents house, or the local BP Servo…. Right under the security camera. 2) When people call advise and disclose to them that “I am happy for you to come and visually/mechanically check the bike, but I will not be allowing test rides until such time as you (the buyer) have satisfied yourself that this is the bike you want, we have agreed on a price, and subject to a test ride the deal is done”. If the buyer says “but I wont know if I like the bike until I test ride it”, you can suggest that “it rides just like [insert make and model here] and perhaps you could satisfy yourself as to how that is by riding a dealers bike of the same vintage”. 3) If once you have agreed on a price, the buyer is happy with their visual inspection, and are satisfied and have agreed that subject to the test ride, the deal is done, have the buyer attend the test ride armed with 100 points of ID, just like the banks require. A current drivers license with photograph, a passport, a credit card in the same name, and a copy of a rates notice with their current address on it (which matches the other info provided). 4) Naturally make sure the lisense has an ‘R” class (or RE for <=250) on it. 5) On the day of the test ride hold this information, make a note of names, numbers, addressed etc whilst they are on the ride (or photocopy/scan if u have those facilities handy) and do not return it until they return with the bike....intact. 6) Set guidelines to the buyer as to what you will allow him to do on the bike and what you will not allow (IE: no breaking the law, speeding, fast corners, mingers, etc, and set a maximum time limit). Have a fellow PSB’r mate who has an above average set of riding skills and a equally capable bike attend the ride, and chaperone/follow the test rider just like a motorbike instructor and his student. 7) Leave only sufficient fuel in the bike to enable the bike to travel only a short distance in case they DO try to do a runner. It sounds like allot of effort and an inconvenience to the prospective buyers but actually it is not. Firstly it shows prospective buyers that you are a serious seller, it qualifies the buyer and almost immediately removes time wasters and tire kickers. Most importantly thieves will phone the next guy who is an easier target. It is only the illegitimate buyer that will have a bit issue with your demands. If, the prospective buyer wants you to ride the bike with the buyer as pillion for whatever reason such as they are not licensed in the relevant class, you wont be insured (see below) etc, then fine, but ensure again that you have your PSB’r mate follow on their bike either covertly or overtly just in case you are wrestled off your bike when stationary (not a hard thing to do when sitting directly behind someone). AND FINALLY, INSURANCE WARNING... Check your insurance policy. Most motorbike policies have an express condition that states that your motorbike WILL NOT BE INSURED if there is damage or theft as a result of your bike being test ridden for sale. For this very reason alone, no matter what you to do reduce the risk of something happening, if someone stacks your bike on a test ride, you will NOT be insured and it will be up to you to attempt to legally recover damages from the rider. Good luck! Deej __________________ Visit these PSB affiliated Links : twowheelswiki.com \| Tyson's Crazy Busa \| justbikepics.com \| MotoGPMagazine.com

25-03-2008, 04:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
DAVA Ducati 848 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kingsley Posts: 421	some helpful tips there Deej. Having recently just sold a bike i had the same concerns. I was happy to trade it in and "loose" $500 or so rather than have strangers at the house. Luckily Potatoe Jones' neighbour stepped up instead as i'd rather see the bike going to a good home __________________ www.sizematters.com.au Health::Fitness::Bodybuilding::Nutrition

25-03-2008, 04:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cam Kawasaki ER6-n Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gosnells Posts: 6,204	When I sold my last bike I didn't hand out an address to anybody. I offered to meet them either at my office, or a neutral place of their chosing. Be super, super careful peeps. Never invite a buyer to your home, meet at a point near it. __________________ [URL="http://www.playingwithfire.org/"]http://playingwithfire.org/[/URL] [quote=Captain Starfish]It only gets expensive if I has to pull out my tool...[/quote]

27-03-2008, 08:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
PHOBiA Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Joondalup Posts: 797	Just out of curiosity, what if the buyer comes and you state they waved a knife around and took your bike. Would an insurance company pay out or would they say you gave them riding permissions? __________________ bikeless

08-04-2008, 11:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
Deej Ducati D16RR \| Yamaha R1SP \| Vespa GTS250ie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SOR Posts: 8,622	some good tips there mach __________________ Visit these PSB affiliated Links : twowheelswiki.com \| Tyson's Crazy Busa \| justbikepics.com \| MotoGPMagazine.com

25-03-2008, 08:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zook SV Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58	Just a thought. Most people have digital cameras now-a-days or at the very least phone cameras. Take a lot of photos. If they refuse to allow you to take a photo no ride! Take photos of the intended buyer, his mates and their number plates. It won't stop them but it will give you a lot of ammunition to catch them. And if the police can't / won't help, post the pics on PSB!

26-03-2008, 07:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
alpha ZZR 250 Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 159	Just out of curiosity, has anyone had a personal experience with bike being tested and stolen. I've been very lucky or naive. I've tested 4 bikes from private sellers and none have asked too many questions. It's scumbags out there that makes life difficult for us good guys now.

30-03-2008, 08:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
Rider CBR1000RR Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fremantle Posts: 827	I sold a bike to a guy who I didnt know if he was just wiered or if he was off his head on wizz.He didnt take it for a spin i just took him on the back it was only just around the block probabley not the best idea taking him but i wasnt intimidated and he looked like a genuane buyer had cash on him as well. But as Slaine pointed out if they look suss take extra care...

08-04-2008, 11:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
Machast Lockheed SR-71 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Ninth Realm Posts: 3,809	once when I was hunting for a flatmate & advertised in the quokka, a technique I used was to fake being busy when they called, saying give me your number & I'll call back in 10 min (home phone no caller ID). BEFORE giving out any address details. Firstly this gives some legitimacy to who they are- a theif with intent would most likely either try & avoid giving a contact number or fumble over trying to think up a fake one quickly. Call them back in 10 and if they answer they're probably above board. Secondly it's useful to call just before the arranged meeting time & confirm so you're not sitting around waiting for a no-show (or to call & see where the hell they are, if they're overdue). And thirdly, if they're dumb enough to do a runner on your bike, you know the number they gave you is legit because they answered it back when you first arranged, so it won't be hard for the coppas to track them down.

09-04-2008, 05:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ryder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vic Posts: 1,307	Another suggestion - consider riding the bike around to their place instead of them meeting you. Then you can check thier licence against the street address you're at. a fake drivers lic won't help them much if the house on thier ID isn't theirs True it's a bit of messing around for you, but it's better than putting off a potential buyer unnesesarily Got to say, if I called up about a bike for sale and was told I couldn't test ride it, the seller most likely wouldn't get my money. For one, i don't like the fuck around, also, i'd wonder if there was a mechanical reason why i couldn't ride it. And if they wanted a cash deposit before a test ride, well, i wouldn't hand a large wad of cash to a complete stranger and hope they're on the level...

23-05-2008, 12:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
Sketch Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4	hrmm, didn't have it stolen, but the test rider was reported speeding and pulling a mono past a local childcare centre which brought the constabulary to my door. :\| i only had his car keys and first name so i'm in the process of fighting a reckless charge as i cant provide appropriate information to the police as to who was riding it at the time.

23-05-2008, 12:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
BigTim Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NOR, Perth Posts: 2,935	Nice. I'll have to remember that excuse "No officer, wasn't me, someone was test riding my bike." __________________ The Industrial Revolution, has flipped the bitch on evolution... --48 hours and counting--

07-06-2008, 02:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
gulliver Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NOR - Perth Posts: 32	Guys thanks for all the great info...

08-08-2008, 08:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
lulu35 Two wheeled Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 13	yes...important information these days when considering sale/purchase of a bike. I must say I have used ebay to buy & sell 3 of my bikes including current bike...no probs. No test rides. No hassels & very happy with the ebay process. A matter of making the necessary title checks... Funny story...sold a 04' Harley Sportster via ebay for $16000 to a fellow in QLD. As it turned out he was deaf & unable to speak. All negotiations were done with his 10 old son over the phone. I must say...I had reservations. BUT money was deposited in the bank within 24hrs without a bike inspection & a bike courier collected the bike from our gargage two weeks later! I still laugh about the ease of transaction on this one! Never look a gift horse in the mouth :-) __________________ Character, like good soup, is made at home.

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