HWTK: People leaving the country with huge education debts ?

[Hewie]

So, I was sitting in one of my tutorials the other day chatting to a couple of other students about what they plan to do once they finish this course.

One of them replied that they where going to head overseas to work. I didnt think much of this until they then added that they had kept their income below the HECS (or whatever it is now) repayment threshold and that they had no intention of paying any of it before they leave.

So basically they are taking 50k in education alone from the Australian taxpayers and walking away from their obligation to repay it.

I know education is expensive, but is it really acceptable considering it costs every one of us and wastes valuable assets and spaces that could be used on students that intend on using their new found knowledge in our community.

So .. Im curious, is this a common thing these days ? and should education be full cost upfront ? or does our global market place mean that even though its "our" money being use the knowledge goes to good use somewhere so its ok ?

[Desmo]

Full cost up front will make it inaccessible to the majority of people (although I paid for all my units up front, I'm an exception to the rule) and leave only those who are better off with the option to further their education.
As for running off without paying a huge HECS debt? Are these international students? If so, I have no respect or time for them.

[Hewie]

Same, I pay for all my units up front as well and I have done since I was 17, so Ive never had a HECS debt and have always had to work to support my education.

Im pretty sure they are a domestic student that just plans to leave to work overseas.

[Roger Explosion]

International students do not have access to HECS. That and they pay a shit load more in fees than local students.
In this particular case, I wouldn't really lose any sleep over it. I would think cases like that are pretty few and far between.

[Fat Pat]

HECS is indexed no? They'll have to pay whenever they come home, it'll just be bigger and scarier when they start paying.....

[Slice]

yeah alot of people aim to work overseas especially at first, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority return.

some people I know aim to do it just to earn some good money for a while without the government taking a large chunk, then once they are well established come home and be able to pay off large chunks at a time.

[resist]

Full cost up front will make it inaccessible to the majority of people (although I paid for all my units up front, I'm an exception to the rule) and leave only those who are better off with the option to further their education.
As for running off without paying a huge HECS debt? Are these international students? If so, I have no respect or time for them.

International students don't have access to HECS.
As for the debts, those guys will return to Australia at some point in time, and they will pay it then. People talk up a big game, but as a general rule they pay their debt, or live a shitty life in virtual poverty.
As for education loans... most of the people who whinge the most are people over 40, who all got to go to uni completely free anyway.

[Stephan]

Afaik, you got to pay HECS back when you get back from overseas, as Pat said. I think, in one way it is a good thing, if they come back and are able to pay it back in large chunks, ie having more experience and getting a higher paid job when they come back.

[falcon]

You also get discounts for voluntary repayments, so leaving and coming back with more experience and a higher paying job makes financial sense for the individual.

I doubt many will actually do this though. And who cares if they do? Wasn't tertiary education free at some point in the past? And WA uni's are only going down hill as far as I'm concerned.

[Phildo]

One of them replied that they where going to head overseas to work.

Where are they going to work - in unemployment offices?

Newsflash: just about about everywhere else in the world is fucked economically right now. It's been in the news a couple of times.

They'll be back pretty quick.

[=Stevo=]

They have to pay it when they get back.

Last rumour I heard was that the debt would be written off after 10 years of no contact, but if the ATO and government live up to their reputation they will hunt you down forever.
Uni should not be up front... if the costs remained the same but up front you would get too many students dropping out due to financial difficulties.

[sathid]

Surely in most cases they'd be filling in an Aussie tax return anyway, and thus liable for HECS payments.

I'm a few years out now, and keen to go overseas purely for the experience. I'll have paid my debt off by then, but doubt the 40% pay cut would make heading overseas to avoid 7.5% extra tax all that appealing...

[dugy]

Unless a person becomes, and stays a non-resident for taxation purposes, then they'll be paying it back.
(International pay up front and prop it up for the locals.)

My the concern, and the greater statistic should be;

A) The people that study degree's that never amount to working above the income threshold.

They haven't paid the debt back by the time they start a family.

So. Reduce the minimum threshold, and make repayments dependant on total household (family) income.

[Maxo]

and should education be full cost upfront ?

Never.

I think tiertiary education should cost an arseload less than it does currently.

TBH, I'm not particularly worried (unless the percentage of graduates that never returned to australia was significant.. which i doubt it is).

There are many other grants and "fees" that need to be cleaned up before we start milking university students/graduates for more cash.

[Hewie]

So does that change when you start looking at it from the point of view that these people already have a first degree and that this course is at postgrad level, effectively their second bite of the cherry?

[resist]

So does that change when you start looking at it from the point of view that these people already have a first degree and that this course is at postgrad level, effectively their second bite of the cherry?

No.

Seriously, what difference do you really think it makes in the scheme of things? If some idiot wants to a: earn bugger all, or b: leave his home country just so they can maybe postpone paying their HECS debt, who cares? It's not an issue worth any of your precious energy thinking about, and certainly not one that deserves a thread.

[SOLID]

Full cost up front will make it inaccessible to the majority of people (although I paid for all my units up front, I'm an exception to the rule) and leave only those who are better off with the option to further their education.
As for running off without paying a huge HECS debt? Are these international students? If so, I have no respect or time for them.

International students have to pay up front and units are usually 3.5k each. You don't make your payment you are given 28 days to leave the country.

[Gippo]

I know of several people who have graduated and left the country, being no longer residents and therefore having no assessable income in Australia.

They have not and never intend to repay their HECS because they don't intend to return.

I'm bitter because I'm stuck here and am forced to pay it back otherwise I'd fuck off to the Carribean too and stick a great big to the man as well.

[duffman]

Doesn't worry me.
Happier to pay tax and provide an education to a few emigrants who want to work, than support a bunch of Australians who don't.

Definitely NO to full cost upfront.
As long as there are shortages of skilled workers in Australia, there should be more incentives for people to get a qualification/trade, not less.

[Hewie]

No.

Seriously, what difference do you really think it makes in the scheme of things? If some idiot wants to a: earn bugger all, or b: leave his home country just so they can maybe postpone paying their HECS debt, who cares? It's not an issue worth any of your precious energy thinking about, and certainly not one that deserves a thread.

So Jake, Im not allowed to ponder things? or post about them in the same way everyone else does on PSB ? Interesting concept, I will bear that in mind as I browse the hallowed halls of PSB trolling through the mountains of musings and idle thoughts that fill it.

I didnt say it bothered me or that I had bunched my panties over the issue, if you note in my last line of my question, I asked if it really matters as we work in a global work place so even if not employed here the skills would be put to good use somewhere else.

I dont have a a predefined outcome here, Im not looking for everyone to say its good/bad/other. Im just interested in peoples views and thoughts on it. PSBers are some of the most diverse and well educated people I know of, its interesting to get their ideas.