HWTK - University for old dogs

[Harro]

So I've reached the point in my career as a Maintenance Planner that to proceed to management, I’m going to need a university degree. Now I’m not stupid, I think I can make it, however, browsing the university websites has made the prospect more daunting than exciting. I'm thinking that many of the PSB'ers out there have either gone to uni, know someone who has or think they know everything, so the things I would like to know:

1) Has anyone here done a Bachelor of Business/Commerce, mature age entry as a correspondence at Curtin, and if yes, how did you go about enrolling.
2) Would you recommend it?
3) Have you used your degree in life?

Any other pointers or information you feel like volunteering, then please do so - I'm all ears.

Cheers!

[Morgs]

I guess the first question is: "Do you really need a university degree?"

There are other options out there such as Management Diplomas from the Australian Institute of Management. AIM WA amongst others. You could even consider doing an MBA if you have a fair bit of experience. I don't think you have to have an undergraduate degree first, but I could be wrong.

If you do need a degree, you have to ask yourself whether you have the time and commitment to do it, as well as a full time job.

I went to Uni as a mature student in the UK at the age of 31. It was quite an adjustment, but well worth it. I went full time because I didn't think I could do it any other way. No regrets there. I might add that it is a hell of a lot more expensive to do it that way now. There may be compromises like part time work, part time study though.

Do I use it? The actual content of the degree, no. I did an IT degree and things have changed radically since I graduated. What I learnt about myself and around IT in general, yes, all the time.

It has surprised me the number of doors that were opened by having a degree.

Hope that helps. Happy to have a chat offline if you want to discuss it further.

[MADOGA]

I guess the first question is: "Do you really need a university degree?"

To move up the ladder for any half decent job these days requires a degree.

[Luke]

To move up the ladder for any half decent job these days requires a degree.

not in my experience

[agrid]

No
n/a
Yes, every day.

[Morgs]

To move up the ladder for any half decent job these days requires a degree.

I guess what I really got from my degree was the ability to think laterally and not make too many assumptions. The reason I asked whether a degree is really necessary, was to get the OP to think about other alternatives. I do not have enough information to make a judgment call on what is in his best interests, but by putting forward some other suggestions, could help him get to the right decision.

In some fields I would agree, a degree is a requirement, some, not so much, and others it would make stuff all difference and would be a waste of time and money.

[Harro]

I guess the first question is: "Do you really need a university degree?"

There are other options out there such as Management Diplomas from the Australian Institute of Management. AIM WA amongst others. You could even consider doing an MBA if you have a fair bit of experience. I don't think you have to have an undergraduate degree first, but I could be wrong.

If you do need a degree, you have to ask yourself whether you have the time and commitment to do it, as well as a full time job.

I went to Uni as a mature student in the UK at the age of 31. It was quite an adjustment, but well worth it. I went full time because I didn't think I could do it any other way. No regrets there. I might add that it is a hell of a lot more expensive to do it that way now. There may be compromises like part time work, part time study though.

Do I use it? The actual content of the degree, no. I did an IT degree and things have changed radically since I graduated. What I learnt about myself and around IT in general, yes, all the time.

It has surprised me the number of doors that were opened by having a degree.

Hope that helps. Happy to have a chat offline if you want to discuss it further.

Thank you for your feedback.

I guess I don't really need a degree, but if it were to appear on my resume it would open many doors that currently have squeaky hinges. As you yourself have pointed out - having a degree has had a fairly positive effect on your working life. I work for a fairly large company, and unless you know someone in a high position, it's difficult to progress.

I have considered Diploma's but i would doubt that they have the weight behind them that a degree has. The time taken up will, of course, be a major factor, but i usually have 5 or 6 days free every fortnight - plus I think I could get a little free time at work to do some study.

[agrid]

Part-time study is a bitch. You spend all day at work and go to uni 2-3 nights a week, 2-3 nights a week working on assignments. Part-time can take 6 years for a 3-year degree. Doesn't leave much time for relaxing. In science, its rapidly becoming, "anything less than PhD need not apply", which is a real bummer for a lot of very intelligent people that can't commit to seven years of full-time study.

I read in the paper the other day the UWA is offering a degree in Science Philosophy (or similar) its very popular with about 10 times the people applying as places available. This meant that the entry score was 98.85 (or similar), one of the highest ever. There just seems to be something fundamentally wrong with using the TEE score alone to filter people out.

[Morgs]

I work for a fairly large company, and unless you know someone in a high position, it's difficult to progress.

Maybe you should invest your time and money in getting to know people in a high position then.

I wouldn't try and put anyone off doing a degree; as you say, it has done me well, but as Agrid has pointed out, trying to do it part time can be a real bitch.

Good luck with it, whatever you choose.

[Gippo]

Mature age undergrad about to graduate. 7 years in the making.

Opened many doors.

Not curtin so I'll stop there unless you're interested in other Uni experiences?

[Rich]

I to would question whether you really need the degree...

I only have my Trade certificate and lots of relevant experience and iI knocked back a management position at the last company I worked at...

I have made it clear where I work now that I am after a management position and I will get one...

I will get around to doing Cert IV in Frontline Management just so it looks good...

I expect you work for a BHP, RIO or such, in those environments it will be harder without the degree...

I will admit without a degree you will reach a career ceiling earlier...

[Noctis]

dammit, now heres me entering the thread in hope to see things like this.


curse you misleading thread title! *shakes fist*

[Harro]

Part-time study is a bitch. You spend all day at work and go to uni 2-3 nights a week, 2-3 nights a week working on assignments. Part-time can take 6 years for a 3-year degree. Doesn't leave much time for relaxing. In science, its rapidly becoming, "anything less than PhD need not apply", which is a real bummer for a lot of very intelligent people that can't commit to seven years of full-time study.

I read in the paper the other day the UWA is offering a degree in Science Philosophy (or similar) its very popular with about 10 times the people applying as places available. This meant that the entry score was 98.85 (or similar), one of the highest ever. There just seems to be something fundamentally wrong with using the TEE score alone to filter people out.

Righto, thank you for the info. Thing is I work away, so it might even take me longer - I don't have the ability to physically go to uni those 2-3 nights a week. Could be that remote learning or correspondence is the way to go. Luckily its not science I am after, just business management, i couldn't handle 7 years fo full time study. Now i know why some of my friends are what I call "professional students" - they're working on science degrees....

Mature age undergrad about to graduate. 7 years in the making.

Opened many doors.

Not curtin so I'll stop there unless you're interested in other Uni experiences?

By all means share away, I'm trying to garner as much feedback to help me make an informed decision as possible.....

I to would question whether you really need the degree...

I only have my Trade certificate and lots of relevant experience and iI knocked back a management position at the last company I worked at...

I have made it clear where I work now that I am after a management position and I will get one...

I will get around to doing Cert IV in Frontline Management just so it looks good...

I expect you work for a BHP, RIO or such, in those environments it will be harder without the degree...

I will admit without a degree you will reach a career ceiling earlier...

Yup, BHP man, I too have my trade certificate, but I'm going to find it hard to progress past the superintendent level at my age without that Degree. I mean sure, maybe when I'm 40 or 45 I will be able to move up through the "ranks" But I'm not planning on being in the mining game for that long. Good luck on the management position!

[19andrew59]

Just a thought Harro but, have you spoken to HR or similar about sponsored training?
I don't know if it's available, used to be that they sponsored you for 'x' years training for 'x' years employment from you.

[Zanza]

Never having worked for a big company I'm not sure how it works but seems rather insane that they expect a degree....I have a degree, do I use it in my field of work? No! I got there by learning on the job and proving my abilities - however perhaps I've just been lucky. Experience should be of more importance, however there are places that are short sighted and value a piece of paper over know how...

Many of the managers I've known over the years couldn't organise their way out of a wet paper bag, so I do question the need for a degree. However as others have suggested, definitely look into any opportunities that your company may provide for training options, sponsorship - make it clear you are interested in investing your time in that direction - and them! There are a lot of courses out there that I know managers have done whilst in a position already that I would have thought they'd need to have done before having the job, so there could be something beyond a "degree" that you can consider.

Are there any mentor programs? If not, approach someone in that area that you think does a good job and let them know that you admire their skillset and abilities, seek advice and perhaps ask that they mentor you...they may be flattered and help steer you right. Networking can be a lot of wank, but done right can advance you if the company is set up for that sort of thing.

At the end of the day, ask lots of questions - if it's a big company then look at their main website and see what opportunities might be mentioned there.

Not sure if that's helpful, but best of luck and be sure to look into all avenues, something may well pay off without the rigmarole of a full degree.

[out_in_front]

I just finished Uni last year, now I am a Mech engineer and that will allow me to move on from being a draftsman (completely unqualified at that). I did the whole part time thing - it took 6 years to do a 4 year full time degree, it is hard, esp if you have responsibilities where you work, and are expected to pull your weight and look after others within it. It is still worth it.

Some other things to consider:
1) you will need financial stability - I.e minimal payments on house / rent etc before you start helps alot. I also had a decent hourly rate at my job, so even a few hours work gave me enough to spend.
2) our brains stop developing at a decent rate when we hit 25, I started my degree at 24 (not exactly old I know) but It makes sense that I remember the first 2 years of study better than the otehrs due to this fact. You may not be able to keep up with the kids in your degree, try to use the other stuff that you have already learned in life to make up for it. Use of your prior experience can make things easier.
3) This is going to be hard on you mentally - Curtin has phsychologists etc there to talk to - use them, they are significantly discounted compared to doing it outside of the uni. FWIW during my time at uni I got diagnosed with ADD, getting the right help with that made studying much easier and my marks showed the benefits immediately.
4) If you have a partner - let them know where you are at in your studies, dont hide the fact it is hard. Otherwise they will expect too much out of you when you may need to relax / de-stress.

5) dont let the above put you off - work hard, the feeling you get when you finish it is great! releif, pride, satisfaction I was laughing like a kid when I got the letter confirming I had passed! (also had the words 'honours' mentioned in it - which I was not expecting)

[51 New West]

Have you considered starting your own business, and then in 6 years time for the same effort you could be employing people with degrees to manage the tradies who go to site and do the work for you?

[mcmurray]

not in my experience

Which industry are you referring to?

[McGoo]

Maybe you should invest your time and money in getting to know blow people in a high position then.
.

Fixed.

[activeman]

...
2) our brains stop developing at a decent rate when we hit 25, I started my degree at 24 (not exactly old I know) but It makes sense that I remember the first 2 years of study better than the otehrs due to this fact. You may not be able to keep up with the kids in your degree, try to use the other stuff that you have already learned in life to make up for it. Use of your prior experience can make things easier.
...

I don't really think that this is true. If you're motivated to learn, then the learning will be easy. But you will have less patience for (perceived) useless information and the dreaded "group assignments" that usually consist of 1 smart person, 1 helpful person and x number of lazy idiots.

In my experience with Curtin, external study meant that more of the work was individual and in essay form, both of which suit my style of learning and time-poor status.