+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50
  1. #1
    Member Lozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NoR
    Posts
    2,073

    LWTK: Cryonics and your soul

    Cryonics.

    The preservation of the legally dead with the hope that sometime in the future they can be revived. Interesting tidbit, you're kept at sub -130ºC.

    I've been reading a lot on this subject and there's a metric f-load of info and opinions around.

    You need to be 'frozen' asap. So, once you die, you need to be kept going with CPR to ensure your body doesn't start shutting down. To put it an concisely as possible, you're pumped with biological cryoprotectants into your blood stream that vitrify and your body placed in a massive thermos until d-day.

    My initial questioning is regarding the unseen. I'm by no way religious, but what do you reckon happens to your soul or spirit (if you believe we have one) when you become a cryonics patient?

    - Do you think it hangs around until you're brought back to life (if this is ever possible)?
    - When does the soul leave the body - when your heart stops? Or when all your cells are dead? Or when your brain shuts down?
    - Would it 'come back' when you're awoken because it's tied to your body in some way?

  2. #2
    Member Lefty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Como
    Posts
    4,943
    Blog Entries
    3
    I would say that the people engaging in cryogenics probably aren't the people that engage in belief about a soul or spirit.

    Why go to the effort if you believe that when you die you'll (presumably) go to a better place?
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmogod View Post
    I may be a caustic cunt at times, but I like to believe I am a fair and decent human being.

  3. #3
    Member The Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    A cesspool of sorrow
    Posts
    9,575
    Ooh! Ooh! I know!

    Quote Originally Posted by browncow to Ryven View Post
    Perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough; Shut the fuck up and piss off.


  4. #4
    Member BennyT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NOR
    Posts
    1,477
    awesome pickup

    personally i reckon itll all be there cos technically ur not dead.
    buuuuuuut i doubt theyll do any of this as itll be more for people with terminal diseases etc thatll get icecubed
    There is no more time, even for cake. For you, the cake is over. You have reached the end of cake.

  5. #5
    Dramallama Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Joondalup
    Posts
    7,533
    Wouldn't you have that screaming moment in the afterlife as you start floating away from the lesbian cloud? Before falling with a rush back into your body?

    What's the elasticity of a cell like? I only ask because in case -130 is going to rupture all your cells?
    This is general advice only and does not take into account your individual objectives, financial situation or needs (your personal circumstances). Before using this advice to decide whether to purchase a product you should consider how appropriate it is in regard to your personal circumstances.

  6. #6
    Member Lozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NoR
    Posts
    2,073
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyT View Post
    buuuuuuut i doubt theyll do any of this as itll be more for people with terminal diseases etc thatll get icecubed
    ^^ pets have been cryo'd. Anyone can get "ice cubed", depends on if you wanna spend the money doing so. Also, technically you're not being iced up, that would require freezing water, whereas you're being all gummed up with cryoprotectants.


    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    What's the elasticity of a cell like? I only ask because in case -130 is going to rupture all your cells?
    I think they've got that figured with the cryoprotectants. Scientist have 'brought back' insects using the same methods BUT I guess they haven't exactly been cryo'd for all that long - who knows what long term effects it'll have!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
    I would say that the people engaging in cryogenics probably aren't the people that engage in belief about a soul or spirit.

    Why go to the effort if you believe that when you die you'll (presumably) go to a better place?
    I read most people who've undergone Cryo are the type to believe there is no higher place to go, so you have a valid point, however I'm sure there are some people who are all hanging in giant thermos's who maybe DID believe there was another place but are in it for the fame when they're revived.

  7. #7
    Member Lozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NoR
    Posts
    2,073
    Reckon being cryo'd is selfish?
    Your family may not be able to 'say goodbye' when they know you're in a giant fridge.

    What would visiting hours at a Cryo Facility be like?

  8. #8
    I love iPhone nath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    PSB Café
    Posts
    13,494

    I think that if you used a name brand, good quality freezer, your soul would also keep well for extended periods of time.


  9. #9
    Member Bendito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,202

    Test ride a bunch of different freezers, and jump in the one you like best

  10. #10
    User is on Probation Desmogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    30,293
    This is why cryonics will only ever be viable for redheads.

  11. #11
    Member Hornet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scarbs
    Posts
    14,476

    Awesome question... I reckon your soul freezes with it and you have no idea of the concept of time until your body is thawed out and revived or starts to rot.

    In terms of dead or alive, there is clinically dead and brain dead. The body can survive for minutes, hours, days and even weeks when brain dead. Clinically dead means circulation and breathing has stopped, but the brain can still be active, although not for long.

    Seeing that our personality, thoughts, dreams, everything we are, come from the brain, then the soul would more than likely be linked to that part of us... if you believe we have souls and an afterlife. You'd have to assume that cryogenic suspension occurs before being brain dead, but that brain activity is reduced to such a low rate (so low as to not be measurable) that it can be sustained nearly indefinitely.

    I'd still be worried about cell damage, though, as our cells contain water and unrepairable damage occurs to our cells when they are frozen, due to water expanding and rupturing the cell walls. There is a frog in NZ (I think) that has a type of anti-freeze in it's cells but, AFAIK, we can't just pump that into our bodies and prevent cellular damage, yet.
    [/troll]
    I blame Hornet! in Comic Sans MS, just for Barfy.
    Clicky ->The story of my pride and joy.
    <- Clicky

  12. #12
    Member Bendito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    10,202

    I reckon it stays with the body

  13. #13
    I love iPhone nath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    PSB Café
    Posts
    13,494

    Quote Originally Posted by Bendito View Post
    Test ride a bunch of different freezers, and jump in the one you like best
    exactly..

    No one can tell you what cryogenic environment is bes for you... you really have to try it for yourself..

    Those little snap lock bags that change colour to show they are sealed might also be a good investment.


  14. #14
    Member Lozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NoR
    Posts
    2,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Awesome question... I reckon your soul freezes with it and you have no idea of the concept of time until your body is thawed out and revived or starts to rot.

    In terms of dead or alive, there is clinically dead and brain dead. The body can survive for minutes, hours, days and even weeks when brain dead. Clinically dead means circulation and breathing has stopped, but the brain can still be active, although not for long.

    Seeing that our personality, thoughts, dreams, everything we are, come from the brain, then the soul would more than likely be linked to that part of us... if you believe we have souls and an afterlife. You'd have to assume that cryogenic suspension occurs before being brain dead, but that brain activity is reduced to such a low rate (so low as to not be measurable) that it can be sustained nearly indefinitely.

    I'd still be worried about cell damage, though, as our cells contain water and unrepairable damage occurs to our cells when they are frozen, due to water expanding and rupturing the cell walls. There is a frog in NZ (I think) that has a type of anti-freeze in it's cells but, AFAIK, we can't just pump that into our bodies and prevent cellular damage, yet.
    Yep, that's why the facility wants you to be kept clinically dead until they can inject you with the protectant goop.

    Reckon when we're 'thawed' we'll retain memory? provided our cells have made it through the process.


    (Am enjoying reading the comedic replies, Thread De-railers )

  15. #15
    Member Kryzaach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sinagra
    Posts
    4,848
    Here's an intersting conundrum for you, that doesn't require thinking about souls.

    Assuming we are just the sum of our parts and we have the technology to reconstruct things on the most fundamental level..

    If you were to be broken down into your constituent atoms and reassembled in a new location. i.e. Teleported:

    Would you still be you. I don't mean you as in, "Identifiably you from the outside looking in", rather; Would you still have the same sense of self.

    Typically the answer is yes..

    But here's where it gets interesting.

    What if the data stream was duplicated and you were reconstructed twice. Which one would be you?

    Your answer can't be neither, remember, we're assuming we are the sum of our parts.
    "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

  16. #16
    Dramallama Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Joondalup
    Posts
    7,533
    You're destroyed at the source and rebuilt at the new location, to everyone else you're the same. Wouldn't matter how many times you were recreated, the original was eliminated.

    I won't be using one.

    You can say neither; paticlising and getting Newtonian on the particle locations, then turning that into a data stream, isn't keeping the parts. The particles will drift off into nothing, the recording of their relation to one another is what's left of you, but it's an observation, no matter how deep and thorough, it's not actually you anymore.
    This is general advice only and does not take into account your individual objectives, financial situation or needs (your personal circumstances). Before using this advice to decide whether to purchase a product you should consider how appropriate it is in regard to your personal circumstances.

  17. #17
    Member Kryzaach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sinagra
    Posts
    4,848
    I said without assuming you have a soul Taylor...


    Edit: Also "Most Fundamental Level"
    "In all the human societies we have ever reviewed, in every age and in every state, there has seldom if ever been a shortage of eager young males prepared to kill and die to preserve the security, comfort and prejudices of their elders, and what you call heroism is just an expression of this fact; there is never a scarcity of idiots." -The Culture

  18. #18
    Member Maxo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    10,123
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryzaach View Post
    I said without assuming you have a soul Taylor...
    Then you would be both, not in a linked consciousness sort of way, but since you have the same memories you would both think you are the initial you (which movie did I see this in?).

    (in a spiritual sense)
    Does this also happen for monozygotic twins?


  19. #19
    Member The Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    A cesspool of sorrow
    Posts
    9,575
    Doesn't the answer lie in the fact that we understand the objective personal pronouns "you", "me", "he" and "she" to refer to a single unique being?

    According to your hypothetical, the single unique being has been replicated.

    So the answer to the question "if the data stream was duplicated and you were reconstructed twice, which one would be a single unique being" is necessarily neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryzaach View Post
    Your answer can't be neither
    Rats' cocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by browncow to Ryven View Post
    Perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough; Shut the fuck up and piss off.


  20. #20
    Member Infusi0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    3,228
    What condition are people being frozen away in? Certainly not the prime of their life. Given the rate of inflation your money will be worth far less if you are awoken at all. Reality check, cryogenics isn't, won't and will never be feasible because in 100-200 years I highly doubt the government is going to allow you to be thawed just so they can pay your useless old ass a pension (that probably wont exist). Let alone the concept of technology shock, the complete lack of family/social structure, lack of general knowledge about anything relevant to that period of time.

    Ignoring the question about the soul, you are dead (brain dead) and in 100 years you will still be brain dead, just with cryopreservatives stopping your corpse from rotting.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. LWTK: Manscaping
    By likefry in forum Dubs Wants to Know...
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 18-06-2009, 06:17 PM
  2. I know you got soul..
    By officer down in forum Yada Yada Yada
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30-01-2009, 07:05 PM
  3. LWTK: Do you do the dregs?
    By lee in forum Dubs Wants to Know...
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 19-11-2008, 11:32 PM
  4. Glider vs Soul Flyers & 60 Minutes footage.
    By dugy in forum Yada Yada Yada
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-04-2008, 01:14 AM
  5. LWTK - So do you wait?
    By Lolly in forum Yada Yada Yada
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 29-09-2007, 04:32 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.0 RC3