LWTK: Cryonics and your soul

[Desmo]

plus we need a lot of guinea pigs and locations that can bypass suicide and euthanasia laws.

Why not just use real guinea pigs?

[officer down]

Why not just use real guinea pigs?

O hai

[mekon]

You're destroyed at the source and rebuilt at the new location, to everyone else you're the same. Wouldn't matter how many times you were recreated, the original was eliminated.

I won't be using one.

You can say neither; paticlising and getting Newtonian on the particle locations, then turning that into a data stream, isn't keeping the parts. The particles will drift off into nothing, the recording of their relation to one another is what's left of you, but it's an observation, no matter how deep and thorough, it's not actually you anymore.

a little like the ending of 'The Prestige'...

Spoiler: show

drown the original

[Barfrangipani]

mekon: you managed to stay awake to see the ending? Not even Scarlett Johannson and David Bowie could save that snorefest

[CBRsairz]

...I'd still be worried about cell damage, though, as our cells contain water and unrepairable damage occurs to our cells when they are frozen, due to water expanding and rupturing the cell walls. There is a frog in NZ (I think) that has a type of anti-freeze in it's cells but, AFAIK, we can't just pump that into our bodies and prevent cellular damage, yet.

Yeah we can sorrrry Hornet, super geek in me coming out now.

But we haven't done it with large (like, human large) animals yet. Cryopreservation is alive and kicking. And weeeeelllllll interesting. But we only really do it with embryos. But we freeze embryos, and unfreeze them all the time, and we have cell preservation pretty down-pat when it comes to embryos. There's all sorts of crap they use to stop cells from assploding during the freezing and thawing process. It's pretty cool how it's done acshully. AFAIK, there are ~ 150,000 viable frozen embryos in storage throughout Australia at the moment (?). Mostly because IVF clinics don't know what to do them. Disposing of them unlawfully is, well, illegal, so they are stuck with them for now. Each one of them though, is perfectly able to develop into a human being . Cool huh.

A professor I know, is a "Spermologist" (no shit) and is on the Artificial Reproductive Technology (ART) Council of WA. He reckons we can freeze anything. Though he is a little eccentric .

So there's a thought for you Loz, if we freeze and unfreeze embryos all the time, and they are made into perfectly functional human beings, (assuming no redheads) does that mean they still have a soul? Assuming of course that they do, does that then mean that embyos do not yet have a soul? And if that is the case, then how come embryos are protected by human rights as if it is so???? OooOOooooOOOoooooo... the plot thickens...

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

I'm not too hot on the idea of immortality myself, I reckon we die for a reason, and it's because humans keep breeding and we need the space. We turn up, we fart about for a while, and then we piss off and make room. I'd love the party to never end, but I can't justify that to an as yet unborn child who needs the oxygen.

[Lord Farquaad]

Yeah we can sorrrry Hornet, super geek in me coming out now.

But we haven't done it with large (like, human large) animals yet. Cryopreservation is alive and kicking. And weeeeelllllll interesting. But we only really do it with embryos. But we freeze embryos, and unfreeze them all the time, and we have cell preservation pretty down-pat when it comes to embryos. There's all sorts of crap they use to stop cells from assploding during the freezing and thawing process. It's pretty cool how it's done acshully. AFAIK, there are ~ 150,000 viable frozen embryos in storage throughout Australia at the moment (?). Mostly because IVF clinics don't know what to do them. Disposing of them unlawfully is, well, illegal, so they are stuck with them for now. Each one of them though, is perfectly able to develop into a human being . Cool huh.

A professor I know, is a "Spermologist" (no shit) and is on the Artificial Reproductive Technology (ART) Council of WA. He reckons we can freeze anything. Though he is a little eccentric .

So there's a thought for you Loz, if we freeze and unfreeze embryos all the time, and they are made into perfectly functional human beings, (assuming no redheads) does that mean they still have a soul? Assuming of course that they do, does that then mean that embyos do not yet have a soul? And if that is the case, then how come embryos are protected by human rights as if it is so???? OooOOooooOOOoooooo... the plot thickens...

Well according to the church the soul doesnt enter the body until the second or thhird trimester, so freezing embryos is A-O-K

[Infusi0n]

Freezing 1-2 cells is HUGELY different to freezing an entire tissue section, let alone an organ, let along an organism. Freezing embryos and then comparing it to freezing a large specimen or a human is like comparing the flintstones car technology to the moon lander, nothing alike.

Perfusing a dead rat with fixative is hard enough let alone a live one without causing cells to rupture.

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

Perfusing a dead rat with fixative is hard enough let alone a live one without causing cells to rupture.

You don't work in sales do you?

[Infusi0n]

Science, specifically cell and molecular biology. I have it easy I deal with cell culture but watching the neuro guys+girls go through rats trying to fix and prevent RNA + protein degradation it is insane how much effort it takes and it still doesn't work perfectly.

PS: by the way when i say live one, i don't mean people fix live rats (they don't that's highly unethical) I mean you would have to do that if you wanted to cryopreserve one, which would be incredibly hard.