848 vs 999S - I test rode them both

[rod]

Anyway, I just got back from test riding the 848 and had a 2006 999S for comparison. I can't decide between the two as they'll work out to be the same $$$ on the road and with slip on exhausts (848 didn't have 'em, 999S had it standard). Around $24k on the road. I hopped on the 999S first (second hand, 3000km) and a friend was on the 848 (shop demo with ~1000km) - another friend was along having a go on the 1098 (he has a monoposto 916) and the Ducati City chaperone who was on a 2003 model 999.

I wanted to compare them as they seem to be fairly close on paper - the 848 has less power but weighs a fair bit less. It's a hot day here in Melbourne, I think it was about 34 degrees this morning when we left. When I was pulling away I was reminded of the dry clutch as it started groaning and grabbing like Frankenstein on Ice. We made our way towards Tullamarine freeway and I was warming to the 999S. Literally. I'd forgotten how hot they can get between the legs and as I couldn't smell a barbeque in progress I thought it all normal and made a mental note to self: HTFU!!

Onto the Tullamarine freeway and I could open it up a bit. I had been amazed at how tractable it was - pootling along at 3000 revs was a breeze and the power seemed quite adequate for well-and-truly losing my licence in first gear in a 60 zone. So on the freeway I opened it up a bit (from 4000 revs) and it seemed the loud exhaust had awoken the devil and he'd just given me a big boot up the freeway as some sort of punishment. I glanced down at the tacho and thought there must be something wrong with it - it's reading 50% of what the engine is really doing. Man, 5000 revs on board and it's really starting to pull my arms from their sockets and we're not much into half of the revs of this thing!

Doing roll-ons was pretty amazing. It's like sensory overload as the noise would indicate the the engine is really revving but the tacho says otherwise. The quick buildup of speed and the wrenching on the arms makes it feel like it's all happening that half a second faster than your brain can work giving a sense that things are not quite under control. That unease is compounded by the fact that the mirrors are so crap you could have two pursuit cars and the police chopper behind you and you'd never see them (nor hear them). I haven't ridden anything like a ZX10R, GSXR1000 etc and the ZX12R I have ridden a bit was incredibly quick in a build up and whoooosh way but this 999S was like being flung from a trebuchet.

We hopped off the freeway and made our way along Pascoe Vale Road to go through some corners in Strathmore (behind Essendon airport). Mascoma street actually. All of this 60 and 70kmh stuff only requires first gear and the 999S sounds great winding on the power and letting it off. Yay for overhead bridges! The friend who was on the 1098 said later that he could barely hear himself think when he was following me. Through the roundabouts and curves the 999S felt great, easy to turn and the brakes were very good. To me they were like hitting a brick wall so I did give them some respect - no use in stacking it as I still hadn't made up my mind whether to get the 999S or the 848!

We were soon to hook back up to the Tullamarine freeway but on the other side of Essendon airport so I hopped onto the 848. As we swapped over, my mate said watch it a bit as it really darts into the corners. Hopping on it, it was immediately comfortable and felt more like a sports tourer - it felt like I didn't have to lean very far forward at all to reach the handlebars. With the standard pipes it was much quieter and the clutch, being wet, didn't have the shingle-dingle-dingle sound going on.

Into the first corner I heeded the warning I was given and took it fairly slowly. It really did fall into the corner easily. A little to easily it felt, like the front tyre was flat. But then I did just hop off what was like a cross between a stretching rack and a nuclear explosion.....

Subsequent corners came and went. Man, what a easy bike to ride! Barely think and it has already done the turn, you can wind on the power without scaring yourself silly.....so easy. The entry to the freeway had a very tight right hander and once around that (with barely a thought!) I thought this thing is a reall pussycat and it was time to really open the taps up. The throttle seemed to have a much shorter turn than on the 999S and in an instant it was at the end of its travel. As the 848 was quieter and friendlier I could more easily judge what revs it was doing my hearing and through the seat of the pants. Speaking of pants, the rev counter is a bit pants if you're not used to an LCD bar and it's a bit out of sight too. Anway, there was not explosion of torque with the 848, just a gradual winding on - from hazy memory, a bit like one of the first CBR900RR's. Yeah there's good torque and it has a good peak but it's certainly not totally awesome in a "eep I should respect the power if I want to live" way. In lower gears it'll still lift the front wheel withough asking but more like a four cylinder, like it winds up and the step in the power in the higher revs hoists the front wheel up. Not the old style twin thing of opening the looong throttle all the way a bit off idle and the bike responds by trying to rotate itself around the back wheel like Pedrosas practice start at Phillip Island this year.

Don't think it's slow though - it quickly got to a speed which would have guaranteed me at least a mention in the nightly news. It's deceptively quick and it's just so easy to get it there. The seating position is ultra comfortable, the clutch is like a japanese bike and it darts around corners before you've even thought about it. Making our way back to the dealership we got some red lights in Flemington road so I had the opportunity to give it some clutch slipping take-offs and it didn't miss a beat. Remember the 999S was grumbling away when we first took off and at a ultra slow speed! The 848 didn't seem to pump out as much heat as the 999S either.

I'd hopped on the 848 and felt instantly comfortable, the power was very good but manageable and it was like Ducati made a CBR600. Easy to ride and deceptively effective. It gets you down the road with minimal effort and you'll be amazed at how quickly you get there. Conversely I think they must soak the 999S's into a vat full of murderers blood before they send them out, just to add a bit more spice to the mix. I ride like an old moll and am probably daydreaming but the 999S feels like having a crazy attack dog on a very short leash. It's all very tame taking a walk around the neighbourhood but throw it a bone and tell it to "skitch 'em boy" and you've got to put your brain into fast forward to keep up before it not only has grabbed the bone but returned and now has your neck in its vice like jaws.

So my final thoughts are that the 848 is an awesome bike and I really think that a mature thinking rider could come off a 250 and ride one it's that easy to ride. It's a real sensible choice. The 999S is totally mental and my mate with the ZX12R had ridden it a few weeks ago and couldn't stop swearing and waving his arms about when describing it....and subsequently put pictures of 999's on his home and work computers and found every video on youtube which contained a 999 and save them to his favourites. Any mere mortal would be faster on the 848 than the 999S in any situation (except a roll-on). As for the 1098, I haven't ridden one and I don't really intend to. I think it's simply too fast for me and I could never hope to use all of it. Besides, if I justified the extra stuff you get for your money I'd be selling this and that to get a 1098R or a D16. My decision now is if I was an easy to ride bike which is devestatingly effective in achieving its goals or if I want to scare myself silly for a while at two-thirds the speed until I get used to it's living-on-the-edge rock and roll lifestyle. And I think there's no coming back from the edge - I don't think any 999S head could change to a 848 and be totally happy.

So after all that I still can't decide and as they're so different in character it's now even harder...........


I'm keen to hear peoples thoughts who have ridden the 848 and the 999S!

[Davey]

If you had a few photos from this test ride you would get good money from one of the aussie bike mags for that review.

Great writing! love it.

[Nathan]

go ride one of the new `1130cc Tornado's. A bloke on the benelli forum came down to a decision between a 1098S or the new Tornado, He went with the Tornado and has no regrets and pocketed about 4K or I know of a LE 900cc Tornado originally costing 65K , going for 25K, only a 100 or so kays on the clock. I think its in Vic too.

[PHOBiA]

Excellent write up.. I found the 749 pretty boring to ride compared to the 636 (flame suit on) but always heard the 999 was an animal. 848 sounds like a logical choice and your write up has confirmed my thoughts. Thanks again!

[rudleo]

good read while im bored at work

[Orson]

I am simply in awe at how you actually get to give a ducati a decent test ride over there. Here, the review would go like this:

"The four left hand turns I took between leaving the dealership and arriving back at the dealership were very good. 1st gear is very smooth. Unable to comment on the other five".

Great review mate.^^^ WDS ^^^

[Ozboy]

Great write up Rob, really enjoyed riding with ya! lol

The 848 does seem to be a great mid range bike and reasonably priced.

No mention of the 1098, guess the price seems to put people off.

[hokoyo]

Very good write up! Think i read somewhere that the power to weight ratio of the 848 and the 999 were very similar, obviously the torque curve is not!

[rod]

Phobia, I've never ridden a 749 but what'd be interesting is if Rhino or someone else with an 848 hops onto a 999S and tells us what they think.

Nathan, yeah there's quite a few other choices out there. New Tornado, new RSVR, there's even a nice Agusta F4 1000 in Peter Stevens for low $$$ (highish k's though). I do like the looks of the Tornado. 999S is just such a hot looking bike - especially with Fila or Xerox stickers! White 848 looks good, I'm not overly keen on the red 848 (or 1098).

Ozboy, no 1098 as it's above the budget approved by the CFO. I'm limiting myself to $24k.

Hokoyo, I think they're closish in peak power but I haven't seen any direct comparisons of the whole power and torque curves yet. Going by the MotoOne site the 999 has a lot to give with a full exhaust system and some cam dialling. I don't know if you'd get much more from an 848? With regards to the power and torque they may well be the same but while the 848 sings it like Michael Buble, it's like the 999 has Lemmy from Motorhead screaming it at you. It certainly grabs your attention!


That 999S is quite good value. $24k and it's ready to ride (i.e. has slip on mufflers at least). They also have a new black 999S Monoposto but the CFO won't approve purchase of that one as she can't hop on the back!

[Ozboy]

[quote=rod;709156]Phobia, I've never ridden a 749 but what'd be interesting is if Rhino or someone else with an 848 hops onto a 999S and tells us what they think.

Nathan, yeah there's quite a few other choices out there. New Tornado, new RSVR, there's even a nice Agusta F4 1000 in Peter Stevens for low $$$ (highish k's though). I do like the looks of the Tornado. 999S is just such a hot looking bike - especially with Fila or Xerox stickers! White 848 looks good, I'm not overly keen on the red 848 (or 1098).

Ozboy, no 1098 as it's above the budget approved by the CFO. I'm limiting myself to $24k.

That 999S is quite good value. $24k and it's ready to ride (i.e. has slip on mufflers at least). They also have a new black 999S Monoposto but the CFO won't approve purchase of that one as she can't hop on the back![/quote]


Monoposto FTW Rod, I enjoy riding on my own.

With all the horsepower these bikes have, I dont know why they bother with pillion seats. I sure as hell wouldn't get on the back!

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by rod

Phobia, I've never ridden a 749 but what'd be interesting is if Rhino or someone else with an 848 hops onto a 999S and tells us what they think.

Anyone wanna lend me a 999s?

As all have said, great write up Rod. Turbo always wanted to ride my 749 cos he said it was challenging. It's the only bike I ever had and didn't think anything of making it go where I wanted it to. It's not til I jumped on the 848 that I saw what he meant. 848 is just SO easy to ride in comparison, 749 definitely required more 'muscle', all of which you have backed up in your own very informative write up.

With both the 749 / 999 and the 848 / 1098, it is the baby brother that has the better handling... I'm willing to take a power cut as I cannot see myself using a bigger bike, and I like to learn to ride what I have first than go for an all out power upgrade... (and I have a toit budget). Obviously for what I paid for the 848, short of a limited edition, there isn't a jap bike that I couldn't get that wouldn't shit all over it in a straight line. But I love Duc's always will, and don't look at $ per hp.

Unfortunately Frasers have a pretty average test ride circuit, but depending on who you know, that can extend somewhat. They won't let every Tom, Dick and Harry come and do laps and I guess it's a catch 22, they don't want tyre kickers... but then how do you sell bikes? My 1098 test ride (for a rough feel of the 848) was quite a bit more than 4 left handers .

Oh, and the comparison between the 848 and 999 was power to weight. The 848 has a better p:w than the 999.

On handling I'd probably suggest this order (best to worst - and only my opinion):
848, 749, 1098, 999
I put the 749 above the 1098 cos of the 180 rear that would help it tip in better, and better weight distribution. 1098 being 15kg lighter and the obvious power increase would give a more vague front end than the very sure footed 749. But a good result could be achieved with good suspension setup too. I haven't ridden a 1098 for a 'hard' ride... hence, just my opinion.

ATM, I'm even almost tempted to put the 749 above the 848. The ease at which the 848 tips in is ridiculous, but the 749 seemed more planted when it was leant over. It tracked SO well, confidence inspiring. But, I'm still getting used to the 8 and haven't yet played with the suspension enough to have a solid opinion, so I've simply swayed at this point to 'ease' of handling which the 8 does hands down.

On power:
1098, 999 (had no idea the 999 was that angry!), 848, 749

Now... keys to a 999s?

[Calamity]

Excellent read guys...
I was going to get myself a Multistrada 1100S and a friend is trying to convice me that for what I want to do with riding the 848 would be a better choice for me.
The jury is still out but now I have more info with which to consider.


Cal

[jules_1972]

Nice comparison, I think the 999S is a bargain (R would be better!!).

[staryknight]

totally awesome read, really wanting to get myself on more italian bikes...

[zoikz]

as Davey said.. photos and sell it to a mag, awesome read.

[Ambian]

Originally Posted by rod

...while the 848 sings it like Michael Buble, it's like the 999 has Lemmy from Motorhead screaming it at you. It certainly grabs your attention!

lol ... classic line... great read mate, start to finish. Definitely magazine worthy. (or Top Gear Australia?)

[DAVA]

Originally Posted by rod

So my final thoughts are that the 848 is an awesome bike and I really think that a mature thinking rider could come off a 250 and ride one it's that easy to ride. It's a real sensible choice.

Thanks, thats just what i wanted to hear!

[potato]

nice one rod......
never thought that much of the 999 but after reading your post, im well impressed.
looked at an 848 the other day and the styling is a shrunk 1098.
i like bitchy temperamental need your attention at all times bikes,{women ppft} i call it value added riding
fishing for a duke in 08 {well, another un}

999 has just got on the list !

but a bevel 900 or an 851 is still the apple in my eye

[Spock]

Originally Posted by potatoe_jones

looked at an 848 the other day and the styling is a shrunk 1098.

More like a 1098 with 848 stickers. My understanding is that they are exactly the same size.

[duc13]

So my final thoughts are that the 848 is an awesome bike and I really think that a mature thinking rider could come off a 250 and ride one it's that easy to ride. It's a real sensible choice. The 999S is totally mental and my mate with the ZX12R had ridden it a few weeks ago and couldn't stop swearing and waving his arms about when describing it....![/quote]


Great write up Rod!
I think your final thoughts say it all, do you want to be sensible or totally mental . Your decision of course, but faced with that choice i'd go mental.
999s at that price sounds like a good buy to me.