Champions vs trackdayz vs mcrc

[K1GxR]

champions are a good provider but they dont have any instructors on track to help keep you poinitng in the right direction, unless you pay extra.
I havent been able to make a racecraft yet, but they have on track instructors i believe.

i did a search. maybe not good enough but i didn't find anything apart from this quote above.

i need to know from your experiences of champion having less instruction compared with trackdayz? i am under the impression trackdayz level 2 onward is with less instruction, and that on champion you can pay extra 150 for tuition for any level, which is what i have done. but i was told today that they don't give much instruction. that or the tuition is with the 150 extra?

i'm booked in for champions, 125 for spot and 150 for tuition. does this mean that even with the tuition i will get less supervision compared with trackdayz? reason i ask this is that everyone i know that has done trackdayz gets full supervision at level 1, and opt to have less supervision as they progress to higher levels.

not to bag any organisation, but i'd just like to know what i'm up for when i sign up for a track day. currently i plan to go with champion because the dates suits me but it seems more expensive. trackdayz level 1 is for 200, level 2 is for 170 etc.. whereas champion level i with tuition is 275.

also what does an mcrc race craft consist of? the website isn't very clear. brochure has some information and 8 by 15 minute track sessions. does this mean we get a lecture between track time? a bit of one on one supervision on track?

[Rich]

Trackdayz coach are always available to give advice no matter what group you are in...

Ask for help or advice and they are happy to help...

Racecraft is what is required to get a race licence...

More race focussed, lines, braking points, etc...

I have never done a Champions day, but have done heaps of trackdayz and have completed racecraft and have a race license...

I reccommend Trackdayz as the best starting point...

[drifter]

also what does an mcrc race craft consist of? the website isn't very clear. brochure has some information and 8 by 15 minute track sessions. does this mean we get a lecture between track time? a bit of one on one supervision on track?

in the first level you have a group chat in the pits with your coaches after each session, not as full on as trackdayz level 1 coaching.
they will watch you in the sessions and talk to you in the breaks if anything is really sticking out, but it helps to talk to them and ask them specific advice if thats what your interested in.

i would go trackdayz unless you are interested in racing.

[D.J]

Racecraft for me, coaching between each session and instructors on the track.

[K1GxR]

ahh ok so racecraft is out for me then.. unless i plan to challenge Rossi

trackdayz vs champions... at the moment more people say good things about trackdayz, i.e. supervision, level of detail, coming out of level 1 with more confidence, and people that don't mind repearing level 1 again ..

general consensus is to do trackdayz.. and if i feel like racing i'd go racecradt after doing some trackdayz?

[thugsfatboy464]

Trakdayz has coaching available through all the Levels
Racecraft has coaching and although its probably working towards Racing it is still a good thing,Lvl1 is a bit between Trakdayz Grp1 & Grp2
Champions is cheaper and you pay for coaching not sure how full on the Instruction is

Starting out Trakdayz is probably the best way to start from that you will have the basicsand all your questions will be answered on the day and then be able to go to Champions with some knowledge of the Track and the lines which will give you some confidence

I think AHG do something but i have never done their course

[D.J]

ahh ok so racecraft is out for me then.. unless i plan to challenge Rossi

No, is for track riding improvement not just racing, I found it better than trackdayz..

[Neil-51]

Racecraft if you want to go racing or become a serious track day junky.

Trakdayz if you want to improve bike control, knowledge and general skill levels. Trakdayz have full on training in level 1 and coaches in all the other groups who are approachable.

Champions if you just want ride the track.

I prefer track days that are run with a some level of grading and coaching. It helps limit people doing crazy shit on the track...like slowing down suddenly on the fast line or weaving down the straights.

[JAFA]

I've done trackdays 1, 2, and 3, and Racecraft 1, booked in for 2. All the coaches that I have had in all groups at both establishments have been very helpful and very approachable. There's no stuck-up snobbery or airs and graces bullshit, they just want everyone to enjoy themselves and learn something along the way.

The same goes for the people there that aren't instructors. I've asked a couple of racer dudes from Group 4 a couple of things one time and they were only too happy to help me and give advice.

It's a lot more friendly and open than some other forms of racing I have done.

[The Nurse 40]

RAC: Grogan road. excellent coaches and great intro to first track (240 then $80 tuning: with some companies, cheaper insurance)
CHAMPIONS: once you have the theory and some practice and you just want tracktime to improve-(discount for group bookings)
TRACKDAYZ/ and RACECRAFT: I found both extremely helpful in their coaching and advice (racecraft: once you get your licence, $80 tuning sessions....

[K1GxR]

Champions is cheaper and you pay for coaching not sure how full on the Instruction is

you are not the first person to say this. however going onto the websites, trackdayz is cheaper (200 bucks) compared to champion (125 for the spot + 150 for tuition) or am i missing something here?

hence why i mention in first thread because a few people have said that champion doesn't have as much instruction, it's less value?

Champions if you just want ride the track.
.

yeh i heard this before too. gee... the most obvious choice for me is trackdayz now.. but they're always so fully booked for this reason.

[Neil-51]

There is a risk with the 'just ride the track' approach. People riding without on track coaching and intervention, seems to push the crash rate up. Honda use to run ride days without grading riders and no instruction or follow up after sessions. The number of crashes on a day was frightening. In the end I decided it was not worth the risk doing those style days.

[Scott52]

I'm a fan of Trakdayz. Four levels with Grp 4 mostly populated with current and past road racers or fast track day riders... plenty of encouragement and coaching in Grps 1, 2 & 3

[quattro750]

There is a risk with the 'just ride the track' approach. People riding without on track coaching and intervention, seems to push the crash rate up. Honda use to run ride days without grading riders and no instruction or follow up after sessions. The number of crashes on a day was frightening. In the end I decided it was not worth the risk doing those style days.

I'm a fan of Trakdayz. Four levels with Grp 4 mostly populated with current and past road racers or fast track day riders... plenty of encouragement and coaching in Grps 1, 2 & 3

WTS^^^^ +++

Although I am no slouch nor inexperienced, I find the "false bravado" demonstrated by the actions of some untrained, uncontrolled bike riders on a track day rather scary. Similarly I find lack of proper grading/grouping according to skill level somewhat tetchy when corner speed differential is quite large. Riding with gp4 in Trakdayz is generally great fun with the regular crowd of fast geriatrics and young guns. Champions fastest group can be similar but sometimes contains some "inappropriate" riders who really should be dropped back (inconsistent lines, lack of corner entry speed etc). Don't think I 've seen this actually enforced by the organisers.

FWIW
q

[Scott52]

WTS^^^^ +++

Although I am no slouch nor inexperienced, I find the "false bravado" demonstrated by the actions of some untrained, uncontrolled bike riders on a track day rather scary. Similarly I find lack of proper grading/grouping according to skill level somewhat tetchy when corner speed differential is quite large. Riding with gp4 in Trakdayz is generally great fun with the regular crowd of fast geriatrics and young guns. Champions fastest group can be similar but sometimes contains some "inappropriate" riders who really should be dropped back (inconsistent lines, lack of corner entry speed etc). Don't think I 've seen this actually enforced by the organisers.

FWIW
q

I agree with Q's sentiments. I think some riders front up for group 4 a bit too soon. There are plenty of entrants doing low 60 second laps. If you're experienced you'll know that dropping lap times gets harder and takes more experience the faster you go ... in other words it's easier to go from a +70 second lap to a 66/65 lap compared to going from 65 sec to 61 sec ... and getting to 58 sec from 60 sec is much harder again.

If you're a fast street rider, punting a motorcycle around a race track for the first time is a big attack on your self esteem. It's a lot harder than it looks. It requires patience and a persistent attitude to gradually work your times down safely ... not to mention bike setup, tyres etc. It's possible some fellows feel peer pressure to go fast quickly and they out ride themselves.

[Gangus]

start on the trakdayz level one course.
it should be a prerequisite to all riders in getting their license for the street.

[K1GxR]

yea mate.. it's a shame there aren't enough trackdayz as it is..

[mattDC5R]

since my quote started this thread i guess i should reply.

like others have said, trakdayz level 1 is probably the best starting point as they do take small steps towards going faster, however that doesn't stop people crashing in group 1.

if you have booked champions group 1 and have paid for tuition as well, then i wouldn't think that would be the worst place to start, just take it easy and get your moneys worth out of the tuition by asking as many questions as possible. it does have the advantage of being far smaller groups 3-4 is about the biggest tuition group i have seen at champions so use it.

what bike are on? gpx250? if so at least you shouldn't get yourself in to too much trouble. track days on 250s are heaps of fun anyway, its great not worrying about throwing 15 or 20k down the road.

[K1GxR]

yeh... that's what i was thinking... i can sacrifice some time and do a trackday in june, but it is more convenient for me to do the champions in mid may. will be going on a bigger sports bike.

[out_in_front]

I did the racecraft session as my first trackday (level 1) on my ZXR250 - it was great as they taught all the lines etc and what to look for on the track to a much higher level than the others, have done both champions and trackdays since, champions should probably only be done when you have had a couple of the others done first - the tuition seems overpriced - the others will do the same inside the $200 price.

Also worth mentioning - if you do the racecraft session, you can apply to get your race license, even if you dont want to race it does open up the $80ish tuning sessions, again only worth it if you have done several tutored sessions and know what to do / look for on the track, or you have friends that know what they are doing and can help you instead - you will be out there with much faster riders.