R6 setup questions and answers

[nevr2old]

After reading the DRKDMON post on gearing changes here and some of the helpful replies I thought it might be worth starting an R6 setup thread.

I recently bought a crashed R6 put glass, a damper and a 15T on took it to Barbagello for the first time yesterday. The 15T seemed to work OK, but there were a couple of turns (basin and 7) where more RPM would have been better. That might have come with faster lap times and corner speed.

Unfortunately I crashed on the exit to the basin in the first dry session and like Hostle can confirm that the sand was very wet and deep. I managed to get the bike out myself (it took a small army and a metal detector to find Hostle and his bike- it was like quicksand in turn 1). I completed the day once I got another helmet and removed the sandpit from me and the bike.

All I did setup wise before the day was the sag and use some base settings from Sportrider. Thinking back, the r6 didn´t turn that well and was harder to get to change direction in the esses, wanted to drift out in the left hander and wasn´t easy to turn into skyline.

This might just be that it was first time out on the bike and it was very different to the F4i I previously rode, but it seems like hard work to me. Anyone else have this issue? I noted BlackFZR comments on wheelbase in the sprocket thread. Any suggestions?

Cheers
Neil

[speed3]

As for suspension set up, contact Marty Moose dead set legend and knows a thing or two about R6 suspension.

[BlackFZR]

Neil.

I found that the R6 stock forks (shims and springs) are completely crap. With a new front spring, some new shims (see Marty Moose as per above thread), and some basic sags etc, it was a completely different bike.

Currently I need to work on the compression part of the front forks, as the rebound part is fully sorted now thanks to Marty's help and research. I'm also in the process of trying different rear shocks, however I was doing 62.3's with absolutely no changes to the Std R6 shock, with only minor compression and rebound changes from the stock positions.....

You'll find that the R6 really requires you to get off the bike more than the older models (K4 GSXR600), as it is a taller bike. Getting off the bike will allow it to hold a line, due to having a lower centre of gravity.

I did try and drop the forks through the triple clamp slightly to try and get it to tip in better, but found that I almost ran out of rubber on the edge of the front tyre..... This may also be because I am going a whole lot faster than I was before.

In addition, I found that using some Stomp Grips made a huge difference in body position mid corner and control of the bike. The R6 has quite a narrow tank, which for me meant I wasn't braking and transferring the energy to the bike through the tank with my knee's, instead I had to lock my arms more and transfer it through the bars. The stomp grip allowed me to move around and stay stuck to the bike mid corner, so using the tank & pegs to steer rather than the bars, and also stopped the aggressive front end dive in the braking zone as well.

Finally, your gearing. You will find that as you improve, and get faster, you will need to change your gearing. When i was on the GSXR600, I was running -1 +2, and found that for that bike it was pretty good. Now I'm on the R6, and in supersport, not superstock, I find that the additional power (minimal though it may be), and smoother delivery using a PCIII allows me to currently just run +2 on the rear, and still get me going well. I may try just -1 on the front next, as it is slightly more aggrressive than the +2 on the rear, but not a huge step up....

Hope some of this helps.......

Simmo

[nevr2old]

Ahh, no Speed3 I wasn´t thinking of tips on how to fit stuff to a bike which is what that thread covers. I can do the basic mechanics stuff. BTW top spray booth in those shots.

Equally, I wasn´t thinking of suspension tips that involved taking the bike to someone. Racing is expensive and I have a low budget. I can do the basic stuff like setting sag and changing fork oil. I´m not good enough to go to a suspension tuner and tell him what is wrong so he can tune the suspension. If really bad shit is happening on the bike or tyres wear badly, I notice and make changes and see if it is better or worse.

I was thinking of a thread that was on opportunity to share experiences with track set up...like the sprocket thread where BlackFZR and MuddyMonk gave good information that would point people in the right direction.

Trial and error can be expensive as I found yesterday!

[speed3]

Ahh, righto. Good idea as there's a lot of folks at barbs now on new shape R6's.

[nevr2old]

Thanks Simmo. Yes that does help, particularly the bit about getting off the bike more. I´ve been told I have stupid lean angles for my lap times, but it has always felt fine to me until I banged my head on the ground yesterday.

Leroy was following me and said he knew I was going to crash because of the lean angle I was using. I lost the front getting on the gas out of the basin and I´m not sure why that happened (other than the fact that I have Mick Morrelyś old glass and everone says it is jinxed).

Will try the stomp grip as I noticed yesterday that the bike was working hell out of my skinny little arms.

Cheers
Neil

[Hostilemonk]

Been away this week to see the wise men in the east at certain Victorian tracks and get some go faster tips - the most common was - get a time machine! Smart bastards!

So re never2old's points - my R6 is an 08 which have different frame, rear shock spring, forks (longer and different spring), engine and brakes to the 06 & 07 R6's (why they changed the engines to the old 05 internal dimensions makes interesting reading)

My R6 IMO was/is difficult to change direction, Lifts it front wheel when changing in the esses, shakes its head in the usual places, lacks front end feel, brakes like nothing i've ever ridden or driven, and seems (to me) to wave it's rear ass er wheel to the crowd.

I've fiddled with the suspension which is totally stock. I've finally got the front to something I can trust and have worked to the current setting slowly over time. At my current speeds (64.3) I've got rid of the front end push under acceleration, got it to change direction a little easier, and got some feel in the front.

Front end
I'm now on Max preload = 5 rings or 13.4mm
Rebound = 11 clicks
Compression = 8 clicks
Hi speed compression 2 turns

This setting is in part to prevent bottoming as I brake later into 7, I now have approx 3mm travel left under braking.

The rear however is still a work in progress (and yes if I change it and get faster(!) the front may need changing also and the rear shock is also not the same as the 07 - 06)

Rear settings are:
Preload = slot 5
rebound = 13 clicks
Compression = 8
Hi speed compression 2.5 turns

The rebound is backed off a little and the compression upped to try and get equal tyre wear. i have approximately a 2cm strip from the tyres edge that is worn, but then a wider strip that appears to be tearing - a pattern that can be due to too much rebound damping.

Don't bother asking what my static sag is - I set it up originally at recommended race settings and worked from there - so now I don't know other than it will be less. Except my unladen riderless front static sag is 15mm at the front on max preload and this is way too much IMO.

Before the exploration of the Barbagallo wetlands I changed the rear by taking 1 out of the rebound to 14. Shouldn't have made FA difference - but it did. However, was also experimenting with different braking procedure that day by using the rear brake initially and for progressively a little longer each lap in 7 and 1 - partly to settle the rear down and help the front under braking - but found the rear seemed to step out more towards the end of braking zone and trailing the front exascerbated the rear problems. partly the reason I think? I took to the swamp when someone came under me and I lifted the bike slightly.

So next is a change to the front with different and more fork oil to help with the 'almost bottoming' under braking into 7 and maybe take a little preload and compression out of the front so it 'should' change direction better. its ALL a COMPROMISE!.

[nevr2old]

Thanks HM.

I put an extra 30ml of oil in my front forks and was running with 2 rings of preload on the front and was nowhere near using the full suspension travel.

I took these suspension settings from Sportrider and used them as a base setting, but didn´t get too far before crashing.

front
preload 2 lines showing
rebound 7 clicks out from full stiff
comp Slow-speed: 4 clicks out from full stiff; High-speed: 2.75 turns out from full stiff


rear
preload position 3 of 8
rebound 2 clicks out from full stiff
comp. Slow-speed: 14 clicks out from full stiff; High-speed: 9 clicks out from full stiff


A mate contacted a UK based tuner who runs a BSB Supersport team who suggested Race -tech gold Seal valves part No hmgv2049 the C36 shim stack + the digressive shim stack (whatever that means). He said it wasn´t worth getting the rebound valves. His suggestion was 20 - 23 mm static sag on the front, and 8mm on the rear.
I suspect I really need to take the earlier advice and learn to get off the bike more before spending $.

[Ryder]

Mines an older model (04), but I found the front springs alone were way too soft to start with. Changed them from stock .75's (from memory) to .95's. That alone fixed so many problems it wasn't funny!

Then had it reshimmed with the racetec shims, as even with the new springs was running at full compression damping and wanting more adjustment. Also dropped the forks through the clamps 5mm, now i'm really happy with it. Just those changes to the suspension had her running 63's, with plenty of room for improvement.

I've come to the conclusion that yamaha have built the suspension for this bike as a compromise, and as a result it suits neither the road, track or commuting with a pillion it needs a lot of work to get it just right