Trakdayz Group 4

[Scott52]

The Trakdayz directors canceled group 4 on the 4th of June and replaced it with two group 2's. Group3 & 4 have been combined. They did this because they were concerned they were'nt getting the required numbers in Group 4 and thus foregoing some revenue. I understand their position.

I'm not going because my only option was Group 3.

What can Trakdayz do to get a full Group 4 each time? ... rather than take away the session for the faster guys who are current or ex racers in most cases.

I think Trakdayz need some feedback and ideas.

[Rich]

I don't really see the issue...

Still 4 groups...

The combined Gr3 +4 still contains the fastest people...

If someone isn't up to the pace of the group Trackdayz will still drop them down a group, and visa versa...

[Gangus]

The more you ride with faster people than you the faster you get.

[Rich]

The more you ride with faster people than you the faster you get.

Ummm...yes...

But what does that have to do with Scott's question?

If what Scott is saying is "Why aren't the racers and ex-racers using Trackdayz?"

Then thats not up to Trackdayz, it's up to those people...

I know when I was racing I did as many Trackdayz as possible...the more track time the better...

[quattro750]

I don't really see the issue...

Still 4 groups...

The combined Gr3 +4 still contains the fastest people...

If someone isn't up to the pace of the group Trackdayz will still drop them down a group, and visa versa...

I have been using Trakdayz for quite some time as an ex-racer and I do not recall ever seeing someone demoted even though I have certainly seen peeps step up into the fast guys prematurely. By prematurely I mean they did not hold lines and got a bit twitchy when passed on corner entry (or mid corner) OR they got sucked into a false sense of security with the general corner speed being significantly higher and outweighing their talent ending up having a lie down or playing in the sand.

All part of it you say? With all due respect to those who are learning the trade, any time I have been amalgamated with gp3 it has been rather scary and not as much fun as with the go fast crowd only. The difference can be significant. I understand and probably would mirror Scott's choice (we are pretty much the same pace).

As to the question, maybe it is two ways.
1 Encourage the top gp3 peeps to graduate but base it on the instructor providing some sort of tick of "worthiness". IE may be a bit slower but has the track craft and basic skills to expand upon. (this is similar to racecraft when someone is going for their licence they do some close moves in and about you whilst at track pace etc)
2 Incentivise the go fast mob to book in earlier. I think a lot leave it til the weather forecast the week before just because it doesn't fill up.

Fact is I don't need incentive, just time availability and a new tyre every third trackday. However I will need incentive to drop down to gp3. Certainly a reduction in potential track time is a depressing thought though.

Maybe a different format for gp3/4 where peeps who run under a specific time get let go at the front of the pack. This is what Champions did last time I went out with them. However it didn't take many laps to catch the backmarkers (~4/5). Then it was like riding in Rome.

Business is business but they may alienate some long time supporters/regulars. not sure there is a silver bullet.
q

[thugsfatboy464]

I think its pretty hard all around as there are never enough spots for Grp2,i have been doing Grp3 for a while and stepped up into Grp4 a couple of times,i lost the front at turn 7 last Saturday my fault and i will be doing Grp4 from now on as i9 feel i can run in that group

Grp4 are the fast riders and know how and when to passetc but pushing peolple up into this group early wont help,
Perhaps there needs to be a way of assessing people so they can move into the next group successfully,i dont know if it needs to be a Lap time based assessment or skill assessment

Grp4 is also the last to be filled is this because the Racers etc hang off booking in case the weather is crap,if it had been filled they would not be able to combine 3/4,Trakdayz provides a service and also need to be financially viable,that probably means they need all spots filled

Just my 2cents worth

[Rich]

Grp4 is also the last to be filled is this because the Racers etc hang off booking in case the weather is crap,if it had been filled they would not be able to combine 3/4,Trakdayz provides a service and also need to be financially viable,that probably means they need all spots filled

Just my 2cents worth

I'm not saying thats crap, but...

The first time I ever ran on wet tyre was on a race day on the second race of the day...

I had never ridden on race wets at all and had no idea just how good they were...

After that I didn't care if it was pissing down at a Trackdayz...practice is practice...

[TurboR1]

Too many are reluctant to move up to group 4 from 3, either they feel intimidated, lack confidence or are of the belief that you need a fully kitted race bike to go into that level.

[Rich]

Well thats the way I see it to Rob...

And by combining the small numbers in Gr3 + 4 they have removed the mental block of..."Group 4 is too fast for me"

So they sort of get pushed into Gr4...

Obviously there will be a Fast Gr2(Gr3) and a slow Gr2(Gr2)...

Thats why I can't see the problem...

If someone in the new Gr3+4 is not suited to that group they will get bumped down...

[rabbit]

being about mid g 3. the speed differential looks like the top 3/4 g3 riders could handle being at the back of g4 but some would prefer not to get buzzed constantly all day by you fast guys and may feel they are holding you up.You are a lot quicker than g3. maybe occasionally combining the groups you fast guys will get friendly with the faster g3 riders and make them feel welcome in g4. Got to be wort a try. I will book g2 and keep out of your way.

[Ozboy]

After my 4th trackday I was up into group 4, it was the guys in that group, who are on here, that told me I was safer in group 4. And they were right, I learn't a lot from following the faster guys.

The lvl 3 guys that have been riding in that group for a while, should move up to group 4, they don't necessarily have to ride faster, but with time they and the other group 4 riders will learn one anothers riding style.

As the faster riders move up lvl's, it'll open more space for novice and intermediate riders.

[dugy]

Ego also plays a part.
Some would rather look/feel fast in group 3 than be seen to be slow in group 4.
Or same for 2vs3 really.
Sad logic.

[Rich]

Ego also plays a part.

I think it's completely ego working in two different directions...

The..."I want to be seen as fast so will stay in Gr3"

And..."I don't think I'm good enough for Gr4"

And thats how I see it for Scott..not saying its bad...

But it's like..."I'm not going in this group3 they are all dangerous"

But if all the group 4 guys are going in the new group 3, then isn't it just group4..

A rose smells as sweet by any other name...

[reddog]

If Trakdays actually grouped people themself then it wouldn't be an issue. Having people choose what group they fit in seems a bit silly to me as I have seen people that are so slow they are a danger to faster riders and vice versa.

If a group of people wanted time with their mates etc. You can always look at hiring the Track for the day. I know the Ducati club does this at the Collie Track occassionally.

[speed3]

I'm currently a group 3 rider. Last trackday I did there were 2 guys who passed me, one breezed past like I was stopped (dude on a 916? race bike, mainly silver) and the other not quite as easily, both of these guys got bumped into group 4 which I'd say was a good idea. Given that there are guys in group 4 who are faster again I'd say the old split was working quite well. I'd say at least the next 2 trackdays I do will be group 3. I'm not uncomfortable with guys passing me but you still can't help but feel you're in their way and it distracts from your own riding.

[96]

Normally, putting group4 riders in with another class should be an issue.

Group 3 should be able to hold a line, and group 4's should get there arse kicked out they don't have the wits about them to make a safe pass.


I simply dont go cause I work Saturdays....

[Neil-51]

Ego also plays a part.
Some would rather look/feel fast in group 3 than be seen to be slow in group 4.
Or same for 2vs3 really.
Sad logic.

This is an issue and one that can be addressed by assessing and moving people up a group.

A few years ago a whole group of us who rode together were asked to move up to group 4 to make more spots available for people in the lower groups. We have been there ever since and I have certainly learned from faster riders.

The people in group 4 are generally skilled and respectful. They do leave more room for slower riders. The real hazard is with inconsistent lines. I would prefer to see the instructors moving people up through the groups. I think Marty and Coxy could make that assessment from the pit wall.

[Shaunor8]

I agree totally

[mattDC5R]

It's a pity they have pulled group 4, I wanted to do it combined with the racecraft on Sunday.

A method of grading would certainly go a long way, but just bumping the clearly faster guys in grp2&3 for a few sessions after lunch might help to break the ice for those guys to move up permanently.

Perhaps another option could be to run a different set of groups on a particular day, similar to how the racecraft groups are different day to day.

[Ozboy]

It's a pity they have pulled group 4, I wanted to do it combined with the racecraft on Sunday.

A method of grading would certainly go a long way, but just bumping the clearly faster guys in grp2&3 for a few sessions after lunch might help to break the ice for those guys to move up permanently.

Perhaps another option could be to run a different set of groups on a particular day, similar to how the racecraft groups are different day to day.

Now thats a sound idea, gives the guys time to warm up through the day and blend the two groups together for the arvo, its gives both groups time to adjust and most of the geriatrics in group 4 are packing up/slowing down after lunch.