2010 Hyosung 250s

[House]

In general that's perfectly right, but it assumes that neither rider slips the clutch any more than is absolutely necessary to avoid stalling, and relies 100% on off-idle torque to get moving.

In that artificial scenario, a sport 600 (or virtually any road going 2stroke for that matter) would also be blown away by a 250 dirtbike.

In a traffic light drag race that's actually based in reality, the CBR rider has the option of slipping the clutch on takeoff, in which case they'd be even for a short distance (both limited by how much power they can put down without a wheelie), and then bye bye dirtbike as the speed picked up a little.

There's a good video around somewhere of a DRZ400sm racing a GSXR600, with and without clutch slip takeoffs. The DRZ pulls 4-5 bike lengths ahead when clutch slip is minimised, but when they repeat it with normal quick takeoffs (i.e. clutch slip), they're even for ~10m before the GSXR very rapidly leaves the DRZ behind.

Even in everyday riding on something with a peaky powerband, you quickly learn that at least some clutch slip is needed to get a half decent takeoff from a stop. My 600 would bog down terribly if I relied on off-idle torque to get moving (or even anything below 3k really, 8k if actually trying to get moving).

[Spock]

True but how often will a CBR250 rider rev his bike to 15,000rpm while waiting for the lights turn green?

The fact is, single cylinder bikes have more practical real world performance - and this is why even a CBR125 can take off more briskly in normal riding than a 4 cylinder CBR250.

[House]

True but how often will a CBR250 rider rev his bike to 15,000rpm while waiting for the lights turn green?

When some guy on a 250 dirtbike is trying to race him?

Doesn't have to be while waiting either. Letting the dirtbike guy get a 0.4second head start won't affect the end result.

Even if racing is out of the equation, clutch slip on takeoff is "normal riding" on something peaky like the CBR or an RGV, just not to as great of a degree

[Spock]

When some guy on a 250 dirtbike is trying to race him?

In any event, a modern highly tuned fourstroke dirtbike, like a CRF250X makes about the same power as a CBR250 but with a much more muscular delivery off the bottom and through the midrange. The CRF would be across the lights before the CBR pilot was even going fast enough to take his feet off the ground! And the CBR would only catch up when top speed became an issue.

[Murley]

Hahahaha you guys crack me up. Please don't get divorced, it's entertaining

[House]

In the case of a bike with a MotoX level of tune, then yes, you're right.

The CBR250s win is then in not having to drop oil and check valve clearances all the time, not overheating and puking coolant when waiting at the lights for ~2min in the first place, and not needing rebuilds even more often than a 2stroke roadbike.

Glad you like it Murley, a thinly veiled power vs. torque argument is much more fun than talking about Hyos

Edit: Or worse, all the the brilliant 2010 design updates

[Spock]

4 cylinder 250s are dinosaurs. If anyone was to build a new 250 sportbike, it should be a 250 V-twin with basically something like 2 CRF150R cylinders (but perhaps with a slightly shorter stroke) - the result would be a bike with about 50hp and decent bottom-end and midrange torque.

Of course nobody ever will as there isn't the market for it. The way I see it, the Hyosung is as good as it gets.

[House]

Some people however find it amusing that the old dinosaurs, with 20 years of P-plater thrashing and suspension wear and tear, still manage to outperform certain modern bikes in virtually every way.

[Murley]

Allow me to join the discussion. Dinosaurs are generally fucking huge and have sharp teeth and voracious appetites so the rider on the modern bike just gets eaten, sometimes whole (as I imagine T-Rex doing), sometimes torn apart and shared (probably in the case of velociraptors). This comparison is not fair as modern bikes are not "giant-fucking-lizards, dad!". I have heard rumours, however, of Hyosung releasing a bike in 2012 called the 'Hyosaur'. The japs will catch up with the Yamadactyl, the Suzukiraptor, the Hondadon and the Kawasaurus. Let the games begin.

[Spock]

Some people however find it amusing that the old dinosaurs, with 20 years of P-plater thrashing and suspension wear and tear, still manage to outperform certain modern bikes in virtually every way.

Yes, I take the point, but what I mean by "they are dinosaurs" is that it is not necessary to have four cylinders to get that sort of rpm and power out of a 250 nowadays. Back in the late 80s, a single with the high rpm performance of a CRF250 would have been science fiction. 4 cylinders was the solution to the problem that no longer exists today.

[darkfibre]

I want a T-Rex250RR please.
The RR is the one with only one front leg to brake with, and is slightly shorter than the older T-Rex250R

[Murley]

I want a T-Rex250RR please.
The RR is the one with only one front leg to brake with, and is slightly shorter than the older T-Rex250R

Are you sure? Those things are like 20 million years old and have been thrashed by p-platers and a possible meteor. I'd wait for the food-injected version in 2014.

[Big_Dave]

Some people however find it amusing that the old dinosaurs, with 20 years of P-plater thrashing and suspension wear and tear, still manage to outperform certain modern bikes in virtually every way.

Agreed my ZX2R's an old girl but damn does she ride hard


But on the topic, white is awesome, I agree with Desmo that they look a ton like the latest 250 kawas.

Is it possible to take a passenger rails off ? or are they fused to the frame.

[House]

Yes, I take the point, but what I mean by "they are dinosaurs" is that it is not necessary to have four cylinders to get that sort of rpm and power out of a 250 nowadays. Back in the late 80s, a single with the high rpm performance of a CRF250 would have been science fiction. 4 cylinders was the solution to the problem that no longer exists today.

But 4 cylinders still has it's own advantages no? More cylinders = more valve area = peak flow (and therefore torque) at a higher rpm value = moar powahhh

With that in mind, I'd like to see the results of a modern 4cyl 250 that used the same technological improvements, though it would likely need a new valve system because springs wouldn't cut it. Purely for amusement, as it would in no way be practical. Unless someone were to create Formula Mosquito of course.

Are you sure? Those things are like 20 million years old and have been thrashed by p-platers and a possible meteor. I'd wait for the food-injected version in 2014.

The Hyosungosaurus was intelligently designed by the flying stir-fry noodle monster and these old Japanese fossils are all hoaxes.

[Spock]

But 4 cylinders still has it's own advantages no? More cylinders = more valve area = peak flow (and therefore torque) at a higher rpm value = moar powahhh

With that in mind, I'd like to see the results of a modern 4cyl 250 that used the same technological improvements, though it would likely need a new valve system because springs wouldn't cut it. Purely for amusement, as it would in no way be practical. Unless someone were to create Formula Mosquito of course.

65hp @ 30,000rpm anyone?

[likefry]

Hey house you realise that the old and new Hyosungs are air/oil cooled right?

[Wilson]

In any event, a modern highly tuned fourstroke dirtbike, like a CRF250X makes about the same power as a CBR250 but with a much more muscular delivery off the bottom and through the midrange. The CRF would be across the lights before the CBR pilot was even going fast enough to take his feet off the ground! And the CBR would only catch up when top speed became an issue.

Seriously, though, who's interested in just the light-to-light performance of a bike?
There are pros and cons of each style, and I quite enjoy having a high usable (upper half) rev range that I can utilise in long corners and the like. Someone else might like to motard around corners (I haven't got a bike to try on, though it does look like serious fun), someone else might like brake later and harder and torque his way out...
Arguing which power delivery is better is never going to get agreement.

[thro]

^^ well yeah it will...

40hp at 12,000rpm with less weight and more low down beats 40hp at 19,000rpm every time.


edit:
Myth busted!

[Revelations]

so it becomes a case of...where do you like your power to 'come on', no?

[Wilson]

^^ well yeah it will...

40hp at 12,000rpm with less weight and more low down beats 40hp at 19,000rpm every time.


edit:
Myth busted!

The argument extended to new vs new. A new 4pot would hardly be sitting at 40hp considering they made 45 20 years ago.