Ask an instructor thread

[BikeSAFE]

I don't think that this question has been completely answered. The question is whether the rider should indicate and pass. If you are crossing the white line, broken or solid, indicate. If not, indicating is optional. I would teach to indicate, so as to warn anyone behind and approaching that you are going to alter your course.

If the vehicle is parked on the side of the road, does the additional minimum of 1 meter from the side of the vehicle place any part of the driver or motorcycle over the white line. If the answer is Yes, then indicating is required.

[SIKPUPY]

To answer some recent questions,

No, the instructors do not do the assessing, this was brought up a couple of years ago with the discussions to change the way we do things over here in the West. Most instructors that went to the seminar that I went to disagreed with instructors doing the testing.

Roundabout. If going straight, you only need to indicate left to exit the roundabout, indicating right to go into the roundabout and then left to exit is just going to confuse everyone.




Bikesafe, Indicating is never optional, you either have to do it or you dont. If you need to move your position on the road 1.5 metres or more regardless of whether or not you are staying in your lane, you need to indicate. You also need to indicate to overtake cars where they are parked on roads that do not have white painted lines to mark out the lanes.

I don't think that this question has been completely answered. The question is whether the rider should indicate and pass. If you are crossing the white line, broken or solid, indicate. If not, indicating is optional. I would teach to indicate, so as to warn anyone behind and approaching that you are going to alter your course.

If the vehicle is parked on the side of the road, does the additional minimum of 1 meter from the side of the vehicle place any part of the driver or motorcycle over the white line. If the answer is Yes, then indicating is required.

[crimsondawn]

If you need to move your position on the road 1.5 metres or more regardless of whether or not you are staying in your lane, you need to indicate.

That is just as bad as indicating 'right' to go straight through a roundabout.
If you are in the left side of the left lane and you want to move to the right side of the left lane and indicate your intention to do so, anyone behind would assume you are wanting to change lanes. I never have and never will do that. I have been riding bikes since the mid 70's and that is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that.
Bloke that used to work with me a couple of years ago went for some bike lessons with an instructor who was teaching him to ride on the left hand side of the lane. I couldn't believe that an instructor would do that, considering it puts the rider directly into a car's blind spot.

[tim the pool man]

On indicating at roundabouts, I see more and more drivers now indicating right when they are going straight through the roundabout. I asked one person why he does that and was told that the instructor told him that was the correct way.
Correct way is no indicators on entry and then indicate left after you pass the exit before the one you are using.
Any comments in this?

I agree if you are going straight on. If you are taking the first exit you should indicate left as you enter the R/A. 3rd exit, you indicate right as entering then left as you pass the 2nd.

I actually see less and less indicating at all, (especially in Kalamunda, but that seems to be a special case generally...) It is something which really pisses me off, I consider it the height of ignorance. Everyone else has to stop and wait to see where they go, whereas roundabouts are supposed to keep traffic flowing better than any other sort of intersection.

[crimsondawn]

Yeah, it's the "I don't give a toss" attitude that is prevalent these days.
Incorrect indicating irks me as much as not Indicating.
What hope do we have when instructors are teaching learners the wrong way too

[SIKPUPY]

That is just as bad as indicating 'right' to go straight through a roundabout.
If you are in the left side of the left lane and you want to move to the right side of the left lane and indicate your intention to do so, anyone behind would assume you are wanting to change lanes. I never have and never will do that. I have been riding bikes since the mid 70's and that is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that.
Bloke that used to work with me a couple of years ago went for some bike lessons with an instructor who was teaching him to ride on the left hand side of the lane. I couldn't believe that an instructor would do that, considering it puts the rider directly into a car's blind spot.

Not wanting to turn this into a shit fight but.... You have been riding since the mid 70's there may of been a few changes since then. Us instructors also dont know everything so I thought I would get the book out.

I should of added a bit more to my comments before, taking into consideration that the average lane width in Perth (I am guessing as I cant find the hard data and not in Perth at the moment so I cant get a tape measure out) is going to be somewhere around 3 metres, generally moving positions in your lane will mean that you will move less than 1.5 metres so you do not need to indicate as far as I know and have been told. If you had to overtake a bike riding on the side of the road, you will more than likely have to move more than 1.5 metres(depending on your current road position and to maintain a minimum of a 1 metre clearance from the bike) in which you need to indicate.

There is nothing in the ridesafe book about the 1.5 metre rule but I assure you it is there. I did come across some information in the ridesafe book which is open to interpretation. It says if you want to move to the left or right you must indicate/signal your intention. I am assuming this means changing your road position but it can be seen as vague.

The book says on page 116 that if you want to overtake, you must indicate. A bike is a road user and to pass it you will need to overtake it, hence you need to indicate. Please see below image taken from the book.


1.PNG

Lets also look at the information in the ride safe book regarding indicating and roundabouts, also an interesting read but once again open to interpretation, Refer to page 118

It clarifies that you do not need to indicate when approaching a roundabout when going straight which we all agree on

It also states that you need to indicate left when exiting "if practicable". So in this case according to the book I was wrong about indicating, it can be seen as optional depending on practicality(I don't reccomend trying this during an assessment). I agree it can be difficult to indicate in some of the smaller roundabouts but not impossible.

2.png

I will see if I can find some more information, if not I will ask some of the guys at the DPI for clarification.

[crimsondawn]

I do not understand why they watered down the rule on indicating left when leaving a roundabout. When I first got my license, indicating to leave a roundabout was compulsory. You never had to indicate right at all. Everyone knew that if you had no indicators active, you were remaining on the roundabout and so, gave way to you. If it was compulsory then, why now, do they say 'if practicable?'
I have to say that I have never had problems indicating when leaving a roundabout. What is so hard? (I am having a go at the law-makers here ).
When you find the 1.5 metres, let me know

[Spock]

There is nothing in the ridesafe book about the 1.5 metre rule but I assure you it is there.

I don't believe the 1.5m 'rule' is in the Road Traffic Code but is just a 'rule of thumb' among instructors and assessors.

The book says on page 116 that if you want to overtake, you must indicate. A bike is a road user and to pass it you will need to overtake it, hence you need to indicate. Please see below image taken from the book.

1.PNG

This is just cut and pasted from the 'Drive Safe' book and as such was wriiten for cars rather than bikes. Obviously a car is going to need to move quite a bit more to the right than a motorcycle (and is more than likely going to cross the centreline of the road) when overtaking and thus needs to indicate. A bike can often overtake without diverging to the right much - hence the 1.5m 'rule' for when to indicate.

Unfortunately many assessors require indicating every time you overtake a parked vehicle - even if you hardly move to the right at all - which I think is wrong.

you need to indicate left when exiting "if practicable". So in this case according to the book I was wrong about indicating, it can be seen as optional depending on practicality(I don't reccomend trying this during an assessment). I agree it can be difficult to indicate in some of the smaller roundabouts but not impossible.

It's only difficult in cars where the indicator stalk may not cooperate - this is why they have written 'if practicable' - ie. for car drivers.

[crimsondawn]

So really it's just something made up. I knew there was a reason I have never heard of it before.

[Geeman]

Can someone please clarify this question for me.

Once I get my RE license, is it compulsory to log the 25hrs riding time with a shadow in the six month period, because the way I read it, as this isn't my first license (20+ years on the road plus HC class truck license) then I am exempt from this and the Hazard perception test. More than happy to be told I am wrong. Just need to clarify as if I need a shadow for the first 25hrs then riding to work straight away is to be a hassle!

[Vezz]

Nah mate only have to do the log book if it's your first WA license I'm pretty sure. I just got my RE and have had my C class for 3 years do don't have to do it.

[saj]

Correct.
The logbook/ P's is only if you're still either a P Plater for your car or if you don't have a vehicle licence yet.

[Vezz]

Hm I wonder, say you get your P plate license for car and bike at very similar times, are you allowed to clock up your 25 hours on either vehicle? Or can you do some in a car and some on a bike?

[crimsondawn]

can you do someone in a car?

Provided they were willing, I suppose so .

[Vezz]

haha fine, post edited. anyone can answer the question?

[bigsmalls09]

Just wondering something. I have had my RE for 12 months and have my test in a few days, when I called to book my test I had to pay a fee for my learners permit or test or whatever. I have received a confirmation letter for the date and time for my test - do I actually physically need a learners permit? And if so, how do I get this?

[bigsmalls09]

Answer my own question - only needed my license card. And yes, I have now got my R class license! Time to take my FZ6 for a spin.

[boeman]

hey all, first post.

Had one lesson with an instructor, whom i since got rid of and have my second lesson coming up elsewhere due to a few issues. Doing my RE.

anyway, ive continuously read when stopped to only put your left foot down. I take it this means during traffic situations (lights, stop signs etc) only?
When you come to a stop from an e-brake, can you put your right foot down so you can use your left to get back to 1st, or should you have shifted back to 1st while braking hard, therefore meaning the only time both feet go down during your test is getting off the bike?

Im sure i will learn this on Sunday, but its been bugging me during the week long wait between lessons.

Test booked for 3rd September in Joondalup. Have 5 x 2 hour lessons leading up to that as well as being shadowed 4 times a week by the old man. Fingers crossed.

[Jellider]

Just passed my R-E today, my instructor always told me to stop as usual with left foot down and then put your left indicator on. Once you have done this, you can put your right foot on the ground and start shifting the gears back down to first gear with your left.

[Crobbo]

hey all, first post.

Had one lesson with an instructor, whom i since got rid of and have my second lesson coming up elsewhere due to a few issues. Doing my RE.

anyway, ive continuously read when stopped to only put your left foot down. I take it this means during traffic situations (lights, stop signs etc) only?
When you come to a stop from an e-brake, can you put your right foot down so you can use your left to get back to 1st, or should you have shifted back to 1st while braking hard, therefore meaning the only time both feet go down during your test is getting off the bike?

Im sure i will learn this on Sunday, but its been bugging me during the week long wait between lessons.

Test booked for 3rd September in Joondalup. Have 5 x 2 hour lessons leading up to that as well as being shadowed 4 times a week by the old man. Fingers crossed.

I'm not an instructor, however what I've been taught so far is before coming to a stop always click down to first and your right foot stays on the peg/covering brake.

Your bike is setup for any possible situation, you're in the correct gear to get away quickly and you are also covering the back brake. Makes sense to me.

You sound like you'll be well prepared, just remember that your dad may have some bad habits (mine does) so be careful not to pick them up, your instructor will teach you how to pass the test, that's all your aiming to do for now.

Good Luck!