Turbo 04 R6 project

[dr00]

A t04 is waaaaay too big for this application. It won't spool. I'd look at flogging it on and going for a GT25 roller bearing turbo. For a bit of research have a google on turbos on Japanese Kei class cars. They are petrol motors usually about 660cc and will give you a good idea of what is going to work on the road. I can tell you right now the t04 won't start boosting until high rpm where it will do a big power spike, you'll wheelie 1 metre then have to change gear.

What engine management system are you looking at using?

td04 not t04...

[Ryder]

Minor updates;

I haven't had a heap of time lately, however, I've been doing a lot of measuring, planning (definitely the hardest part of the project), and chasing stuff up. Few people out there know much about turbos on bikes, and even less people know anything about turboing 600cc's - so this really is quite a learning experience!

I have bought the stainless steel for the headers, and completed about a quarter of the machining i need to do on them.
They still need welding, which is a slight problem, as my work has decided in the last few months to not allow any welding of stainless steel without a full face respirator. And it seems we don't have any, lol. So that will take some dealing with.

I got the copper for the head gasket, and will hopefully get to machine it this Saturday, and with a bit of luck will have the engine back in the bike shortly.

My blow off valve arrived a few days ago, and so did a book I ordered on Turbo charging. It's called "TURBO real world high-performance turbocharger systems" by Jay K. Miller.
It is a very good book, lots of great information and full of practical ideas - very highly recommended.

Apart from that, I'm trying to work out the fuel supply system for it. I'm trying to use the stock injectors, (NIPPON INJECTOR MODEL INP 250/4, that’s all the info I have on them), however I'm pretty sure I'll need to use a higher pressure fuel pump to compensate. The stock pump is a
5PW/DENSO, 5.5 Amp, Out put pressure 294 KPA (which, interestingly enough, is the same pump they use in the 04 R1's as well).

I'm not certain what pressure pump I'll need to allow for the extra power I'm chasing, at the moment I'm assuming that because I'm after about 40% more power than stock, (105hp), I'll need about 40% more fuel pressure - so around 400kpa.
Yes, I know that’s incredibly rough. However, it will do as a ballpark until I find out more information about the stock injectors - at the moment, it's hard to find. Not even Yamaha dealers can tell me any more data than that.

I don't suppose anyone has any more information on these injectors handy, do they?

[Desmo]

You still going to have a single injector per cylinder?
You can always stick a 5th injector in the plenum if your stock injectors won't handle the flow of an uprated pump.

[Ryder]

You still going to have a single injector per cylinder?

Yes

You can always stick a 5th injector in the plenum if your stock injectors won't handle the flow of an uprated pump.

Hopefully they will, as i'm not going for a huge increase. But if they don't, how would you go about placing and timing a 5th injector in the plenum?

[ufatbarstard]

NIPPON INJECTOR MODEL INP 250/4

What colour are they? i can look up their rating for you







.

[chee]

always over compensate for fueling.

cant high flow the injectors? would be good to know how hard the injectors are working now (injector duty cycle).

early model wrx sti ra's used to run a injector (5th) in the middle of the plenum. might want to look at what they did there.

[Ryder]

NIPPON INJECTOR MODEL INP 250/4

What colour are they? i can look up their rating for you


.

Mate, that would be a massive help if you could! Just went out and looked at them - they are orange.

always over compensate for fueling.

cant high flow the injectors? would be good to know how hard the injectors are working now (injector duty cycle).

early model wrx sti ra's used to run a injector (5th) in the middle of the plenum. might want to look at what they did there.

Cheers for that

There was a forum I came across earlier when searching, one of the guys claimed the duty cycle was 90-95%. I havent confirmed that, however.

[ufatbarstard]

thats makes em 24.5 lb/hr or 250cc/min @ 255 kPa, 1.7 ohm & 80% duty cycle calculated 50 Hp.
should easily handle 40% more fuel pressure & fuel the power increase you're after.
What are you doing for boost referencenced fuel pressure regulator?





.

[Ryder]

thanks heaps for that!

What are you doing for boost referencenced fuel pressure regulator?

Not sure yet

[Ryder]

Update:

I finally had the time to finish doing the machining for the exhaust headers, and also to do all the machining component of manufacturing the new copper head gasket. The head gasket just needs the outline on it finishing off, which I will finish tomorrow!


Headers:

I started off by buying some hot rolled mild steel. I got
4 x 76x56x6mm
1 x 170x116x10mm
1 x 132x84x10mm, from a local supplier at the massive cost of $10

Then is was just a case of measuring the turbo flanges, the exhaust flanges, marking out the material and doing the machining on it.


Plain mild steel



After machining




I have decided to use a simple log style design for the headers, for various reasons I won't go into right now. So, I bought 2 x 90 degree bends in 304 stainless steel, and 1m of 409 stainless, all in 38mm. Originally, I wanted to have the 409 stainless mandrel bent to 90 degrees, but the exhaust shop I took it to did a totally shit job, and I couldn't use it. So I bought the 90 degree bends, they weren't too expensive at $15 each. Beats the stuffing around


Stainless as bought



It does polish up nicely



The shit job the exhaust shop did on the bending




I needed to turn 4 inserts that will mount onto the cylinder head, cut 2 sections for the centre cylinders and grind one end to fit the pipe at exactly 90 degrees. Also, I needed a short section cut very square to make up the distance between the 2 90 degree bends. I used the lathe to do most of this work.
I used 4 pieces of 50mm diameter black mild steel for the inserts, as you can see from the parts below.

Header parts



Headers parts as they will be assembled



This weekend, I will fit them to the head and tack weld them, take them off and weld them fully, drill out the excess steel, then put them on a mill and face off the front to ensure they are all bang on even. Though I may not get to mill it this weekend.
Once the engine is back in, I can work out exaclty where I'm going to hang the turbo, and weld the turbine flange after that.

Though the headgasket will be done by the end of tomorrow, and that means there will be nothing stopping me from reassembling the engine and fitting it back on the bike! That will be happening in the next few days as well.

[kiknet]

early model wrx sti ra's used to run a injector (5th) in the middle of the plenum. might want to look at what they did there.

I think I read somewhere though that in reality it will have trouble dispersing the fuel evenly between cylinders and If you're going to all the trouble to add an extra injector you may aswell spend a little bit more money and get an extra 3 for above each TB and have it done properly. Although from what I've seen, the secondary injector setup normally is used for big power (500hp etc) bikes.

Oh and if you've got questions regarding turbo bikes this is the forum to goto.

TURBOTALK

[Kaido]

nice!

you can always use an adjustable FPR to get the max out of your injectors

[Ryder]

Thanks for that forum link - may end up spending quite some time on there

I have started looking at things like adjustable fuel pressure regulators, but there is a problem. The stock pump is the same for both the 2004 R6 and the 2004 R1 - a 5PW/ DENSO that outputs fuel at 294 KPa. But unfortuately, according to the workshop manual, the fuel pressure regulator maintains system pressure at 284 KPa.


So it seems I will need either;

A - a higher pressure fuel regulator and a higher pressure pump, or

B - larger injectors, which I would assume are more expensive than option A.

Though, I will be paying to have my injectors cleaned, (it's poinless to do this mod, pay for dyno tuning and not clean them,) so I'll have to see which works out best in the long run. Hell, I may even be able to run R1 sized injectors in the bike, in which case I can probably exchange them - there are companies in the USA which will send you a set of cleaned, matched injectors in exchange for your old dirty ones.

[Ryder]

Head gasket is now finished and installed!



Worked out the new head gasket size needed to be 1.6mm thick. So I got some copper sheet, larger than the job, and 2 pieces of 6mm MDF to sandwich it between when machining.



Here you can see the old head gasket, and the piece of copper I machined into the new one.

I won't go into too much detail about the machining, but I will tell you I used a trepanning tool for the bores, and for the bolt holes ect, a centre finder and normal drill bits. I also used a bandsaw for most of the outline, and finished it off with a file. The odd shapes inside were done with a rod saw and files, and all the marking out was done conventionally - nothing special. After that, I checked it against the cylinder block - it is a beautiful fit! Very happy with how it came out.


Here is the gasket after machining




And on the engine




I then annealed it, cleaned it up with scotchbrite and gave it a coating of Hylomar to ensure a good seal. Then let it dry, and fitted it!


Gasket with coating





Then it was just a matter of refitting and torqing down the head, fitting the cams and resetting the timing. I also checked valve clearances while I was there - the bike is about that age - they were all good, one of the inlet valves was borderline on the tight side, but still good.

Cams back on



I spent this afternoon reassembling the engine, and fitting it back in the bike. I also tack welded the new exhaust headers as they will sit, and now with the engine back in, I can work out exactly where the turbo will be hung


Headers tack welded




I used a MIG welder and some stainless wire I bought to tack weld it. I also did some practice welds on some scrap stainless pipe I had - suffice to say, I am far from happy with the results.

A mate of mine used to be a boiler maker however, and he is pretty handy with a TIG. He has offered to TIG it up properly, and I think I will take him up on the offer.



Well, here is the bike as she sits at the moment! She is about an hours worth of work to get running right now, and I intend to put her back on the road for a few weeks while I fabricate the rest of the parts. The reason for this is to ensure there are no issues with the head gasket - once the turbo is fitted, she will be taken pretty much straight to a dyno tuner, and the less things that can go wrong the better.

[chee]

flow test your r6 injectors?

congrats on the work so far. spiffy gasket!

[Commander Keen]

Performance exhaust, you're doing it wrong.

The project looks like it's coming along nicely, can't wait to see it all put together.

[Ryder]

flow test your r6 injectors?

I doubt they'll give me what i'm after (with a stock regulator and pump), and I'm not sure it would be worth the expense... Unless of course, I do change the pump and regulator and keep the injectors, in which case they'll be cleaned and probably flow matched

congrats on the work so far. spiffy gasket!

Cheers mate

Performance exhaust, you're doing it wrong.

The project looks like it's coming along nicely, can't wait to see it all put together.

Thanks, hopefully the hard parts are over now. Though I should probably wait until I've found time to finish plugging in the engine and starting it to say that.

Lol, yes I probably should have added that there are more parts to be tacked on to the exhaust! I can see how it would be something of a performance downgrade in it's current form

[Ryder]

Update:

I finished re-installing the engine, put oil in and no coolant. Ran her with no coolant for 30 seconds and shut her down.
According to some people I have talked too, this is what you should do when running a copper head gasket with Hylomar on first start - it's supposed to minimise the chance of coolant leakage. I figured even if it does nothing, 30 seconds without coolant isn't anywhere near long enough to hurt anything, so what’s the harm in trying?

Anyway, she started first try and ran beautifully! After I put the coolant in, I started her again and let her idle for a while. Did not miss a beat, very smooth idle, and probably the best part of all - there is a very small change in the note she makes now. Not a lot, but enough to notice!

Enough rambling though - I did notice a small amount of white smoke coming from the exhaust shortly after start up. But being as I was using the stock exhaust for the initial test, and it had been sitting for quite some time, it was impossible to tell straight away if it was a head gasket problem or just condensation. I decided to let her idle for about 5 minutes to let her warm up properly.

After about 5 min, the small amount of smoke was still there, which wasn't good, and the idle was getting lower and lower. I tried blipping the throttle and there was just a massive hesitation and power loss with the bike almost stalling, so I shut it down, being a little concerned as you might imagine.

I checked the oil - fine. Had a think about what could be causing it which was related to a new head gasket - didn't come up with much. Then it struck me that there was fuck all fuel in the bike. Tried turning the key to on, and sure enough, I can hear the poor old fuel pump sucking air!
Damn I felt retarded! So busy worrying about major fuckups, I forgot to check the simple stuff first!

Anyway, one jerry can of fuel later, I decided to remove the silencer in order to chase down that worrying white smoke. My reasoning being, if it was condensation in the silencer causing the problem, eliminating it would tell me.

Bike started first shot again and ran perfectly, albeit loudly. Best of all, all the white smoke was gone! Big relief


So now, the next step will be to put the wheel, fairings and other miscellaneous pieces back on, and give her a road test. See just how much power she's lost with a lower compression head gasket, and how it affects low end response, also just to make certain there are no issues under load before the turbo goes on.

[g0zer]

awesome progress man

[Syz380]

*Doh*

Well at least it was a simple fix and didn't break anything.