RZ 350 VM 26 Non Power Jet Mains question

[seahorse]

Am I correct in assuming Banchees run Mikuni VM Carbs 26? If yes, what size are the standard Mains?

I have an 83 RZ 350 Non Power Jet & Im after some 300's and upwards.

[seahorse]

It wasn't a trick question, I genuinly dont know? was seeking a bit of expert knowledge from a 2 stroke guru with more than 5 posts. I have completely rebuilt an RZ 350 in recent months, including an engin split with new TSS bottom end bearings, and a new top end, I'v had the carbs off about 15 times, and they are about to come off again to fit new needle and seats when they get here, at the moment Im running 280 mains, 27.5 pilots, nice brown on the plugs and stays resonably cool with a bit of smoke on start up, but I want to go up on the mains just to see what difference it makes, if any. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to start, or get involved in an rz tuning war, or receive any advice about zeeltronic, iex plugs, pod filters, reeds, spacers and boost bottles. Just the initial question please, Banchee vm 26? Mains size? anybody, pretty please with sugar on top.

[D.J]

Jeesus man , you only posted it yesterday. The manual will have the standard jetting for an RZ350, not sure if the Banshee is different though, you didn't say if you had a banshee top end or not. A plug chop is the only safe way to tell for your current set up.
A two minute search found this for a stock RZ

http://www.angelfire.com/hi3/smokeonthewater/rzeng3.jpg

from Here

RZ/RD 350 & Misc. 2-Stroke Tech BBS :: View topic - Useful Links

[seahorse]

Jeesus man , you only posted it yesterday. The manual will have the standard jetting for an RZ350, not sure if the Banshee is different though, you didn't say if you had a banshee top end or not. A plug chop is the only safe way to tell for your current set up.
A two minute search found this for a stock RZ

http://www.angelfire.com/hi3/smokeonthewater/rzeng3.jpg

from Here

RZ/RD 350 & Misc. 2-Stroke Tech BBS :: View topic - Useful Links

Cheers for the reply DJ, mate im the full botle,sort of, on the standard set up for a 31k non power jet, am a member on the rz/rd madness. For info and respect for your time. I have standard 31k top end, ported intake exhaust manifold, including grinding the powervalves to match, gasket matched bottom end, knife edge porting on the inlet manifold, about a 6-8 mill spacer on the inlet, boysen reads, standard VM26s Mikuni carbs, 27.5 Pilots and 280 Mains. Long story on the porting. Bought bike second hand on fleabay, said to be good only to identify when it had got here it had had a cold seaze left cylinder. Combintaion of oil line severed and web split on crank. when I stripped it, it had one standard barrel, and one heavily ported. So I matched it with a dremel,time and swearing ( bacground in pearl and stone carving). At any rate Rebuilt the motor completely. Forgot to mention Tommy pipes. Took a while and a lot of research to tune it to what I thought was safe, But have recently read a few posts about land speed records ending expensive repairs . The bike runs nice, but I want to get it better befor I take it to a dyno, I have figured that I need a new needle and seat in one carb so the next time I have them off was thinking of a cheaper, quicker option to up the mains. Hence Cheers Bro

[Richie Rich]

Should be easy to get hold of larger mains - plenty of RZ's use upwards of 300 mains once the airbox has been dispensed with (you don't mention if you're running an airbox or not?) There's a ton of info out there on the net - you just gotta spend the time swimming through it.

I chuckled at your ebay experience, brought back memories of mine - 'yes the engines good and all the powervalve seals have just been replaced' he said - when in reality he meant 'yeah, it's pissing oil & shit outta the PV's, the clamps rounded off so the RH cyliner PV is permanently closed, I've replaced the head gasket with shit gasket goo and both cylinders have seized and damaged the bores - oh yeah, one bore is std but the other is +1mm'

[D.J]

economycycle sells cheap mains but they are not Mikuni ones, for OEM try Ian Williams Tuning. with mods like you have a plug chop is the only safe way as no one can tell you the right jetting to suit your bike, start with pilots and air jet then work from there to your mains as they are cumulative. I wouldn't mess with needles and needle jets unless you are very experienced and know what you're after (apart from raising or lowering the c clip), I bought the mikuni tuning guide as a start. Personally I run as rich as I can on the main while it can still rev out.

[seahorse]

Richie rich, cheers for the chuckle, did you sell yours on immediately,cause the bike did come from Melbourne!

[seahorse]

DJ, cheers for reply, Economy Cycle are great, I have already used their services.
Forgot also to mention that the bike had a 5l needle in one carb and a 4n needle in the other, was advertised as needs a tune. For faaaaaaaaaaaark sake. you should have seen the barrels. And getting a 5 l needle was like buying a lid for a holy grail.
At any rate DJ, good advice on the mains for any NOOB home tuner, im safe at the moment, but will go up a few tomorrow when the carbs come off, I have a few leads in perth I think I can follow up on, and I pick up the needle and seats which arrived at the PO today.

As previously mentioned, and me being me, I want to get it as close to spot on as i can before I stick it on a dyno, and yes the end game intention is to be on the safe rich side.

Cheers again, maybe see you at blue haze day.

For Richie from Melbs, airbox is standard with a new air filter tomorrow, and yes it will be oil treated as per manual.
I will not be using this bike for racing/track days hence have no reason to swiss cheese or remove the arbox to replace with pods. I am happy with the performance of this almost 30 year old, money hungry, fire breathing dragon. When I get it done, I will post the DYNO results. Cheers for taking the time to reply bro.

[Richie Rich]

For Richie from Melbs, airbox is standard with a new air filter tomorrow, and yes it will be oil treated as per manual.
I will not be using this bike for racing/track days hence have no reason to swiss cheese or remove the arbox to replace with pods. I am happy with the performance of this almost 30 year old, money hungry, fire breathing dragon. When I get it done, I will post the DYNO results. Cheers for taking the time to reply bro.

Hey mate, no I didn't on sell my RZ - I'm never letting it go - spent way too much on it to get it where it is now to move it on....

Interesting that you still want to go up on your mains with a std airbox (I agree that it's a wise move to keep it std), I'm running 250 mains (up from std 240's) but the bike is std apart from fibre reeds and Spec II pipes. I actually thought I can stay on 240's but went up just to be cautious. But I'm no expert (another reason to stay close to std).

Yours wasn't the full fairing RZ from over this way that sold a while back was it?

[seahorse]

Hey mate, no I didn't on sell my RZ - I'm never letting it go - spent way too much on it to get it where it is now to move it on....

Interesting that you still want to go up on your mains with a std airbox (I agree that it's a wise move to keep it std), I'm running 250 mains (up from std 240's) but the bike is std apart from fibre reeds and Spec II pipes. I actually thought I can stay on 240's but went up just to be cautious. But I'm no expert (another reason to stay close to std).

Yours wasn't the full fairing RZ from over this way that sold a while back was it?

Had the top half of the full fairing, VIC Rego, RZ then threee familiar numbers. I am sure I will get plenty of interest when I stick an EOI out to let the plate go. Back to the thread in particular this may interest you.
Today I put the Needle and seat kit in both carbs, including float bowl, gaskets, throttle cap rubbers, new air screws, and interestingly brass needles, that were identical to the 31k 350 needles. The only thing that the kits didnt have were float bowl bottom drain screws, which I realy wanted as mine have been overtightened for 28 years by probably 28 people.
I got the mains I wanted from the bike doctor, good service and even took time to discuus subject specific tuning points.
I Rebuilt both carbs farrked around in the shed and up and down the street all day changing jets (I just kept on going up) I know this is not the way to realy do it but I had already been running the bike on 280 mains for some time.,. Several jet changes and needle positions I ended up with 30 Pilot, a/s 1 full turn out, Needle top clip and 360 Mains. WTF
Bike definately feels stronger bottom to mid range, and it has got to be getting all the fuel it needs WOT, I did a couple of 3rd gear quick 10,000 to 11,500 spurts with no hesitations, I will take it for a longer run tomorrow. But it feels good. And it is running right at 1/4 temp. I have not done plug chops yet.
I still havent finished, Just before dark I pulled the left lead, fired her up and fine tuned the airscrew right carb. Closed her down reversed the process but I couldnt kick start the left side by its self. Gave up. I have probably made another rooky mistake. Please anybody feel free to smash me on this point, but go easy Iv had a great day.
Tomorrow I will fire her up both cylinders and carefully pull the right lead off whilst its running so I can fine tune the left carb air screw.
The one real concern I have is that i would have expected to be at least 1 & 1/2 out on the air screws but im only right on 1 turn out. I am thinking that because I have a non standard petcock with NO VACUUM this could be a massive problem. I have a hose on the vacuum outlet right carb, to nowwhere, should I crip/ block this line?

[Richie Rich]

Hi mate, you should definitely block the vacuum line - it's another air source and will upset the mixture. I can't believe you're running such massive mains - I'd love to know what differences there are from mine that require such a big leap from std jetting.

I remember that RZ on ebay - funnily enough contacted the guy to see if he wanted to part with the Vic rego plate - small world. From memory it's not a '83 RZ as he listed it as, but an '85 as only the '85's came with a frame mounted full fairing (yours without the side panels and bellypan) as well as more modern instruments and theat particular colour scheme (sorry but I've owned 5x RZ's and am such an anorack!). The '85 model did however run the same engine, carbs and pipes as the earlier model RZ's.

Sounds like you're having lots of fun (!) with the set up - I'm thankful that when mine went back together I put everything back to std settings and she ran well at that. Hope it all comes together for you soon - looking forward to the next installment.

[seahorse]

Hey Ricardo, Interesting analagy on the year I thought the same 85R at one stage, thought I was geting a real bargin, but a few things still point to an 83. Compliance plate frame and engine numbers match to 83. Having said that, the instruments I think were later as it has the electronic tacho ( worm drive has been plugged on the engine, and it has cdi replaced. So I think in a past life it may have been passed off as an 85. It has 250 written in texta under the seat, no steering lug, and tank had been resprayed. At any rate ive got 83350 in black decals on the bottom 1/4 fairing so its now official its an 83.

Still interested in the plate ?

Managed to fine tune airscrew left side this morn, funny had to use the right lead to keep it running, got 1.5 turns on the air screw, done the right side again and only got just over 1, bit of a difference there, two things may be causing this 1. the vac line as you agree, 2. float level right carb is slightly low, ( re checked with the drain screw clear line method ) or combination, at any rate after the tune process I took it for a blast up the freeway, then down the coast, around 40 minutes riding at variing throttle positions. Definately has improved mid range to top/top end. Temp gauge stayed on 1/3 rd the whole time. On three occasions during the short trip I got it right up in the rev range in 4th gear, I am confident that the larger mains realy came into play here, it just wanted to keep on going strong, I pulled out both times at around 12000 rpms but it was not wanting to do that it was pulling realy strong. I think at one stage a bit of wee came out. On another occasion I think I reved it way over 12000 rpms when I missed second gear taking off at the lights, im not sure what the guage said as I was doing the look down thing we all do, you know where was that gear lever again thingie.
So, where are we now. Right carb comes off, reset float level. Block off vacuum.
If that improves current running I will be more than happy, as I am happy with its state of tune at the moment.
Ill post again when I have done the aforementioned, will have to get the book out to see which tab I have to bend for the float level reset, will clamp off the vacuum while its off. Right now Im having a nanna nap. Watch this space.
PS Read one of the best ever on this sight. Quote; Capitalisation is important. Im going to help my uncle Jack off his horse. Im going to help my uncle jack off his horse. Ya gotta laugh, theres some funny bastards on here.

[Richie Rich]

Interesting specs on your bike, sounds as though it may have been converted to later spec at some stage during it's life - wouldn't be too surprised, at one stage these bikes were worth nothing - not so much any more.... It has clipons too doesn't it?

I'm surprised your RZ will rev (at least indicated) to 12,000 rpm - they were reknowned for 'falling off a cliff' once they hit 9500 - 10,000rpm - but it sounds as though yours has some serious porting (& ignition). You'll need to be careful though 'cause those types of sustained revs don't do the crank any favours....

I'll PM you about the plate.

[seahorse]

True about the specs but Im prety sure the engine at least is definately an 83 as I got a list of engine numbers that matched the production line to 83, at any rate I had the crank rebuilt when I rebuit the motor, kept the OEM webs and pins, new crank bearings from Steve TSS and I had it welded. Bit of an argument there but I will live with the decision. What I would have liked to have bought was a balanced crank using the OEM webs and pins if I had the money. Steve at the TSS had stroker cranks balanced but I just dont have the experience to go down that path. As I may have said before I upgraded the gearbox and shaft bearings, bought the package deal from TSS, gives me good peace of mind. With regards to the porting every bit of aluminium that could be grinded to a point was, including the bottom end transfer ports, This I think contributed to the as previously stated cold seaze, as on the right side bottom cylinder, the one that had cold seazed before I bought it, the left hand outside of the gasket "bottom of barrel" had been sucked in, given that there was only about a 3 mil wide gap footprint. Hence when I rebuit it I paid particular attention to my gasket matching and checked critical placement before I torqued it up. Realy do wish it was standard. At any rate moving on to the tuning, I am pleased to announce that I have given birth to a new baby which is currently resting in the shed with a nice clean sheet over her. Thisarvo I did what previously discussed, re set the float level and blocked off the vacuum ( as for other readers im running an aftermarket on off fuel tap).Did the trick, said it before but that was the icing on the cake. Re tuned the cylinders/ carbs individualy ( ended up with a/s 1&1/4 out, and it actualy crackles. Made a massive difference. Runs nice and smoth, dont have to lemans off at the lights, and I dont get the pre egnition when I back off the throttle down hill ( althoug I believe this can also be attributed to to big a pilot on some bikes) I can confidently now take my new fire breathing,smoke spewing, carbon munching rocket ship, to a DYNO. Cant get the grin off my head.