Become a supporter to remove this ad

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Customising your Bike - Fuel Management Systems

  1. #1
    Staff BlackFZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PSB Cafe
    Motorbike
    07 R6, 2 x R1's
    Liked
    287 times
    Posts
    6,310

    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Customising your Bike - Fuel Management Systems

    Customizing your bike…..
    Bike customization is about making your bike reflect you as an individual. This can be done by simple bolt-on replacement modifications, or the more advanced custom paint-scheme and custom stickers, right the way through to major frame and hardware modifications such as street-fighters and extended swing-arms etc. This morning I want to introduce and identify the availability one simple modification that will effect how you interact with the bike, as well as make your bike that bit more like your own. This is the beginning of a series of threads that will identify other bolt-on option that will personalize your bike.....

    Fuel Management Systems.
    Now once you have chosen that Exhaust/System that helps you add that element of sound that you want with the look you have, it is a good idea to actually re-tune your bike to ensure that is not running lean, and potentially harming your engine.

    Briefly, replacement exhausts/systems improve flow through the engine, by scavenging exhaust gases quicker, and pulling more air into the cylinders prior to ignition. If you don't add additional fuel, your bike will run lean (more air = higher air/fuel ratio, which is bad in some cases).

    To counter this, there is a series of simple after market plug-in systems that can help you with fuel management, as well as the more expensive advanced Fuel Management packages which will allow you to customize your engine management to a higher degree, and with additional features.

    Simple Plug and Play Systems:
    The following systems will plug into your wiring harness and allow you a simple level of fuel management for your bikes. They don't require any additional plug-in to a computer to be able to tune your bike, they are just a simple plug-in and tune from the side of the road via on the module buttons and flashing LED's.

    Dobeck Performance – DFO Gen 3


    Cobra – FI2000R


    Two Brothers Racing – Juicebox


    Each of these produce Fuel Management Systems (FMS) specific for a bike model, that are simply plug and play, requiring no splitting or soldering of wires.

    Advanced Plug and Play Systems

    The Dynojet PowerCommander (PCIII)is an advanced system, which has the option to do some coarse adjustment through on the bike tunability, but also has fine adjustment via connecting to your computer via USB, and changing the fuel map for 250 rpm increments. Additional accessories can be added to the PCIII that will allow you to effect ignition timing, as well as complete some basic datalogging functions.



    The Tuneboy is a system which has been developed purely for the Triumph, Benneli, KTM, Aprilia, Buell & MZ range of motorcycles. It is similar in that it can be used as a simple plug and play system similar to the others mentioned to date, but as well as allowing fuel management, it also allows you to change rev-limits, iginition timings, air-fuel targets etc, and all wihout having to stay plugged into the bike. This management needs to be completed via a PC, but rather than having the Tuneboy left on the computer, it can be used to actually flash the stock ECU to reprogram it to the new settings.


    The Bazzazz Performance Z-Fi is slightly more advanced than the Dynojet, as there is no "coarse" adjustment feature available on the unit itself, all tuning has to be done via a USB connection with a PC. This is no different to what the Dynojet PCIII can do. However the advantage of the Bazzazz system is the extra's that can be purchased to fit in with it. You can also purchase an Air-Fuel mapping kit that will allow the Bazzazz Performance system to search and set your fueling to a specific Air-Fuel ratio based on a closed loop tuning set-up, as well as log and create a map that can become a permenant tune. In addition there is a Traction Control and a Quick Shift Kit that can also be added to the system to allow you current cutting edge racing technology at your fingertips.



    The Motty Electronics AFR Tuner is a step up from the Bazzazz Performance system. Rather than having the closed loop tuning system as an optional extra, it is supplied as part of the main unit. Again this is a PC only tuning system, and the AFR Tuner also has a data logging component which logs Air-fuel Ration, throttle position, rpm, gear (if your bike has a sensor), coolant temperature, and a single user defined sensor.



    Summary
    Of all the options that have been mentioned to date, these are listed from minimum to maximum complexity/features, and are only really required if you start to play with either engine internals, or your exhaust. A lot of these systems are actually for Race Use only, so use them at your own peril.

    More advanced entire engine management systems will be looked at in the future......

    Cheers

    Simmo
    Sponsored By: Dynapumps, Chain Reaction Motorcycles, Straightline2ten, K-tech, Imagine Multimedia, M&J Signs

  2. #2
    Member Nero Diablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Liked
    149 times
    Posts
    6,744

    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Replacement fully programmable ECU for older webber marrelli products Jefferies MyECU

    Chips for older ECU's replacement for newer ECU's of the webber Marelli variety. Fuel Injected Motorcycles - home of the UltiMap U59 Engine ECU for late model Ducatis

    www.showangomotorcycles.com.au Aust distrubtors for Kilein racing carbs.

  3. #3
    Inactive Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Motorbike
    ZX9R
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Has anyone used an Autronics unit with a turbo with any success?????

    I am looking at this option and wondered if there was any options either way.

  4. #4
    Member datsikk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    SOR
    Liked
    5 times
    Posts
    328
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9R View Post
    Has anyone used an Autronics unit with a turbo with any success?????

    I am looking at this option and wondered if there was any options either way.
    I doubt that any of these would work as most bikes?? use TPS for their load values. Running a turbo you would need MAP sensing for load.

    Best person might be to try Glenn Campbell on 041 882 2444.. He sells and tunes computers. I believe he has tuned turbo bikes before.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    1,057
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ZX9R View Post
    Has anyone used an Autronics unit with a turbo with any success?????

    I am looking at this option and wondered if there was any options either way.
    They use Autronics on cars with turbos.

  6. #6
    Inactive Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Motorbike
    ZX9R
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks I am a little way of yet but will give him a call when the time gets closer

    Cheers

  7. #7
    Member madmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    perth bayswater
    Motorbike
    1986 fzr 400 exup
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    199
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    wat about bikes with carbys ???? not fuel injected

  8. #8
    Member Desmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Liked
    3328 times
    Posts
    42,652
    Mentioned
    261 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why would you need a fuel management system on carbies?
    Rejet mate.

  9. #9
    Member madmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    perth bayswater
    Motorbike
    1986 fzr 400 exup
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    199
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmogod View Post
    Why would you need a fuel management system on carbies?
    Rejet mate.
    just wundering wat you could do for carbie bikes

  10. #10
    Staff BlackFZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PSB Cafe
    Motorbike
    07 R6, 2 x R1's
    Liked
    287 times
    Posts
    6,310

    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As Desmo said, re-jet....... Can't use an electronic system at all as you bike fuel is moderated by the jets in your carbies. Therefore you have to change the jets, to change your fueling. Hence re-jet......
    Sponsored By: Dynapumps, Chain Reaction Motorcycles, Straightline2ten, K-tech, Imagine Multimedia, M&J Signs

  11. #11
    Member Nero Diablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Liked
    149 times
    Posts
    6,744

    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bugger rejet got plenty of money and a carbed bike? FCR flatslides! link in above post.

    Just checked it of course they have changed thier web address, try this http://www.showandgo.com.au/
    Last edited by Nero Diablo; 17-10-2008 at 07:53 AM.

  12. #12
    Member madmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    perth bayswater
    Motorbike
    1986 fzr 400 exup
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    199
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    cheers

  13. #13
    Member R160's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Motorbike
    Benelli Tornado 900RS, TnT R160
    Liked
    191 times
    Posts
    5,419
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Heres a link for the motty system, a mates fitted it to his Benelli with very good results, you set the AF ration and the sensor continuously adjust the fuelling to suit, he go leaner in cruz mode and so forth , Motty helped him out with tech help every step of the way, they are working on a switch for dual mapping, eco or power modes. He pretty rapped with it.
    Motty AFR Tuner Fitted - Benelliforum- Benelli Discussions

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bertram
    Motorbike
    Suzuki gsxr 1000 k8
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    155
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi Guys.......Ive got an 08 GSXR 1000, now when i had the 5 thousand k service done i wanted to put a Power Commander, and an K n N Air Filter put on. Now the boys at Witch Cycles said that a Power Commander wont make bugger all differance to my bike, so they talked me outta it, and i just got the Air Filter on instead.
    Are they right in saying it wont make much of a differance to my bike?

  15. #15
    Member strawman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Corporation of Government of WA, slave quarters
    Motorbike
    so police can target me
    Liked
    3 times
    Posts
    455
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    if it has an oxygen sensor in the exhaust it can automatically compensate for any increased airflow/leaning of mixture.

  16. #16
    Member Hostilemonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Hills
    Motorbike
    R6 Zimmer frame #16
    Liked
    0 times
    Posts
    2,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    the newer bikes seem to get bugger all power increase from PCIII - they may just smooth out the delivery a bit - but on the newer bikes (08/09) it seems they can't change the midrange fuel delivery much at all. not sure if this applies to the other brands like Bazazz or Motty.

    Edit: found out why they can't tune below 10,000rpm on 'fly-by-wire' machines: Extract from installation instructions-
    "You will notice that in the maps there are not detailed values below 10000rpm at 100% throttle and below 9000rpm at 60-80%. This is because the throttle blades will not open more than 60% below this RPM range no matter how much throttle input is given. Therefore this area can not be tuned."

    FWIW.
    Last edited by Hostilemonk; 30-01-2009 at 11:04 AM.
    Supported and kept fit by [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Success
    Motorbike
    2006 Ducati Monster 695
    Liked
    26 times
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a ducati monster 695 and its running remus grand prix exhaust and is running lean as. Does anyone have any idea which unit would be best to go with or has a product for my model. Also are they easy to install and set up yourself or do you need to get a professional tune to set it up.

  18. #18
    Staff BlackFZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PSB Cafe
    Motorbike
    07 R6, 2 x R1's
    Liked
    287 times
    Posts
    6,310

    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Generally you should be able to get any up to the PCIII and give it a coarse tune which will overcome a bike running lean. As stated above, the majority are plug-and-play i.e. have a wiring harness which just slips in between a few plugs of yours. Then you can just + or - fuel at low, mid or high rpm's........

    availability.... I know the PCIII should generally be easily available here, however it can be more $$$$ than if sourced elsewhere. The advantage of the PCIII is you can get a specific map for your bike and pipe, generally done by the exhaust manufacturer....
    Sponsored By: Dynapumps, Chain Reaction Motorcycles, Straightline2ten, K-tech, Imagine Multimedia, M&J Signs

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Success
    Motorbike
    2006 Ducati Monster 695
    Liked
    26 times
    Posts
    295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    another quick question, i tried removing the oxygen sensor but when i tried starting it up it didnt fire but kept trying to start even when i wasnt pressing the ignition button. Can i remove the oxygen sensor or not? I dont think the PC3 works unless you get around the O2 sensor.

    Anyone else have remus grand prix slip ons that i can compare with

  20. #20
    Staff BlackFZR's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    PSB Cafe
    Motorbike
    07 R6, 2 x R1's
    Liked
    287 times
    Posts
    6,310

    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't have enough experience with Ducati's to be able to help you, however unless the Ducati has a very unique ecu, you should have no problems removing the O2 sensor..

    I know for most of the Japanese bikes you can pull out the O2 sensor with no problems at all, it doesn't bring up an error code, or stop the bike firing or continue to try and start without the ignition button pushed. I've never heard of this type of problem occuring when a PC3 has been installed..

    The PC3 will work with the O2 sensor in, it just won't be as effective.

    As an explanation why.....
    The O2 sensor allows the bike to do some rudimentary tuning (Fuel management) on the fly based on the O2 sensor readings. By adding the PC3, you are modifying the fuel into the bike by intercepting the output signal of the ECU, and then adding or reducing fuel based on the Map loaded, and the sending a modified signal to the injectors. By having the O2 sensor, you are likely to have the ECU and PC3 fighting each other, as the ECU will just keep on leaning out the fuel based on the O2 reading, which the PC3 modifies, until it gets back into the range of O2 which the ECU likes, hence completely negating the PC3.

    an example.......

    O2 sensor reads "10" with std ECU
    You add PC3, with custom map.
    ECU supplies injector pulse for an O2 "10" reading.... PC3 adds additional fuel (based on ideal map / A:F ratio etc), O2 reads "12"
    ECU re-tunes, and supplies injector pulse for an O2 "10" reading..... PC3 adds additional fuel, O2 reads "11"
    ECU re-tunes, and supplies injector pulse for an O2 "10" reading.... PC3 adds additional fuel, O2 reads "10"

    By having the O2 sensor still installed, you negate the effectiveness of the PC3. Please remember that the PC3's and equivalents are generally "For Race Use Only" i.e. bikes operating around 3/4 to maximum rpm, which the std tune on most bikes are not really maximised for, as at those sort of rpms you are generally doing faster than the speed limit in first gear .....
    Sponsored By: Dynapumps, Chain Reaction Motorcycles, Straightline2ten, K-tech, Imagine Multimedia, M&J Signs

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2