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kale
04-10-2010, 09:16 AM
I went for a ride at the pines yesterday with a significantly faster friend then me, and those b*stard whoops were killing me.

I was getting bad arm pump early in and it wouldn't go away, putting a bit of a damper on the ride.

Is it just saddle time and technique that are going to have the biggest impact on reducing arm pump, or are there excercises you can do to build some stamina?

Donza
04-10-2010, 09:38 AM
Hey man, lots of tips and excerises around, try youtube. But in my experience a few small things: Grip more with ya legs to the seat and heels into the frame/near pegs instead of hanging on all with the arms. Try and relax ya grip - easier said than done sometimes but just time/practice. I find in warm up laps in the morning i can loosen the grip but as soon as the gate drops i tense up the grip again until 2-3rd lap when i realise. Also try a 2 finger hold instead of all fingers (ie riding along with 2 fingers out covering break/clutch) instead of 4 white knuckles wrapped around the grips - also need this for 2 strokes when feathering the clutch all the time.
And fitness, do some forearm excercises with dumbells etc. HTH?

kale
04-10-2010, 10:03 AM
Nice mate, thanks for all that!

I ride with 2 fingers on the levers as it is at the moment and am concentrating on using my knees to hang on. Like i said it's mainly the whoops where i tense up.

I may be doing it wrong but i squat down further back on the bike and try to keep the front light. Bit harder hanging on with your knees in this position and my arms are almost stretched right out.

I'll get there with practice, but i'll check youtube later on for some tips as you mentioned. Cheers, big help.

Lolly
04-10-2010, 01:21 PM
At the T&E I did, they taught me to literally stand. No squatting back at all. So you could draw a line from the middle of your foot- to your knee - to the very front of your seat where it joins the plastic - to your hips - to your head.

Your arms then can come out with elbows up (you may need to make a small adjustment to your handle bar angle - they did to mine).

The standing and arms makes all the difference. No sore legs and no sore arms. It made my off road riding physically effortless compared to the grief I was feeling before then. I would finish the day completely shattered - now I finish refreshed! Now I just have to work on the fear factor!!

dirt_infected
04-10-2010, 01:29 PM
Is in your mind.

Breathe deeply and relax and it will just go away.

Also go faster, when you're bogging down in the whoops getting beaten up it tightens everything and you get tired/sore. Skipping over them at speed with a refreshing breeze over your arms and chest is a rejuvenating force.

Edit: Dunno how the T&E advise negotiating whoops but kale is right here- weight back is necessary- hang arse over the rear guard and grip with knees.

out_in_front
04-10-2010, 01:42 PM
Relax and enjoy the whoops - don't fear them. When you get them right you can make it all the way through without fatigue. Also the faster you go the better - I used to them on the pipein 5th on my rmx - well over 100km/hr. Go slow get fatigued and hurt. Of course that takes practice so do exactly that- and lotsmof it. Ps I have video of me coming off through them at speed ... The consequences can be severe if you get it wrong... I was Lucky enough to roll out of it though

kale
04-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Yeah, Lolly i think you're talking about riding in general for standing up, which i do anyway.

My general riding is fine, it's just the whoops where my ring puckers up, and dirt_infected made the point of everything tightening up which hit the nail on the head.

100km/hr seems like a recipe for disaster with me at the moment. Was getting a little crossed up yesterday and would not wanna get kicked off at 100. Keen to see that video though out_in_front...

out_in_front
04-10-2010, 02:23 PM
Have you had you suspension set up properly for your weight etc? From memory sand riding means you can soften it off a bit too, I am sure someone else can elaborate, but get it right and you will probably have less of a problem getting crossed up.

The rest comes with experience, as dirt_infected said, when you start skipping across the top everything gets easier, and that means going at higher speeds. Those whoops can be pretty decently spaced, they are not as tight as say an MX tracks whoops, so the higher speeds are necisary, I would say it would be safer too. There are smaller sets inbetween the trees - from memory just to the left after the first main intersection, they are shorter, shallower and harder than the ones next to the main road, lots of fun and good to learn on as there is more traction and less bogging in.

If it makes you feel any better, the first day I went to gnangara I dropped it 5 times.... but it was also the first time on a dirtbike for me in 5 years. The second ride I did a superman off a ramp...:o

Marty MOOSE
04-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Have you had you suspension set up properly for your weight etc? From memory sand riding means you can soften it off a bit too, I am sure someone else can elaborate, but get it right and you will probably have less of a problem getting crossed up.




Other way to hold it up in the stroke a bit :)

kale
04-10-2010, 03:19 PM
Yeah, been meaning to come see you Mr. MOOSE but need to get hold of a standard rear link before i do.

Marty MOOSE
04-10-2010, 03:25 PM
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:)

Lolly
04-10-2010, 08:38 PM
oh yeah - I didn't read it carefully and notice the reference to the whoops. I can't help you there. I LOVE whoops. I giggle the whole way through!

PowerStand
04-10-2010, 10:23 PM
Is in your mind.

Breathe deeply and relax and it will just go away.

Also go faster, when you're bogging down in the whoops getting beaten up it tightens everything and you get tired/sore. Skipping over them at speed with a refreshing breeze over your arms and chest is a rejuvenating force.

Edit: Dunno how the T&E advise negotiating whoops but kale is right here- weight back is necessary- hang arse over the rear guard and grip with knees.

X 2 relax I suffer well but this helps best,,,, fitness also helps

kale
05-10-2010, 07:02 AM
YZ450F YZ WR 450 Linkage Swingarm Swing arm: eBay Motors (item 190450198021 end time Oct-28-10 10:56:07 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YZ450F-YZ-WR-450-Linkage-Swingarm-Swing-arm-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c57b76605QQitemZ19045 0198021QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

:)

I'll let ya know when it gets here.

PaulMac
05-10-2010, 07:20 AM
I went for a ride at the pines yesterday with a significantly faster friend then me, and those b*stard whoops were killing me.

I was getting bad arm pump early in and it wouldn't go away, putting a bit of a damper on the ride.

Is it just saddle time and technique that are going to have the biggest impact on reducing arm pump, or are there excercises you can do to build some stamina?

The good thing about riding with a mate who's heaps quicker is with practice, you will attain his speed. Might be a few crashes along the way but that's part of the learning process isn't it.

I also suffer arm pump and have found the best way to minimize it is to warm up the arm muscles slowly - don't ride straight out into a 5km whoop section as soon as you get the bike off the trailer. If I get my arms sore in the first 10 minutes, they just get worse as the ride goes on.

As everyone says, ride loose, make sure you breathe properly, relax and move your fingers at every opportunity when riding. Hanging on with the death grip will give even the most fittest MX rider arm pump.

If it mainly happens in the whoops, it is probably a confidence problem which is making you ride really tight or you are concentrating so much on nailing the whoops that you are holding your breath. Have someone watch your suspension as you hammer through the whoops and if it appears to be getting you out of shape, try adjusting the clickers. My guess is maybe a little less high speed compression damping on the shock if possible.

I also drink at least 1 sports drink (must have magnesium in it) before riding and drink like a fish whilst riding. Dehydration = thicker blood = increased arm pump. Don't wait until you're thirsty as this sign is far too late and you have already dehydrated. Buy a hydration pack and drink from it whenever you stop. Also try eating jelly babies or similar while out riding as these can give you a quick source of carbs.

I am also going to try a long sleeve compression shirt as these provide support for your muscles and may help with arm pump.

kayne
05-10-2010, 07:14 PM
The good thing about riding with a mate who's heaps quicker is with practice, you will attain his speed. Might be a few crashes along the way but that's part of the learning process isn't it.

Want to come for a ride with me? :-)

PaulMac
05-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Want to come for a ride with me? :-)

No worries. Looks like a group of us will hit Metro road this Sunday and you're more than welcome to join the fun.

And if anyone has told you any stories about me, it's bullshit as I'm only mounted on a CR125 - worlds slowest 125 mx bike.B)

kale
06-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Want to come for a ride with me? :-)

Yeah why don't ya put up that video of you looping out and going all cobra kick boxer on the bike?

Paul, i'll be seeing you at Metro with Kayne now haha.

PaulMac
06-10-2010, 02:13 PM
Yeah why don't ya put up that video of you looping out and going all cobra kick boxer on the bike?

Paul, i'll be seeing you at Metro with Kayne now haha.

Ha Ha, I wish Shane had of caught my out of control stoppie on video :lol:

All cobra kick boxer on the bike...:confused:

Looking forward to this Sunday - might even be some rain if we're lucky.

kale
06-10-2010, 03:50 PM
All cobra kick boxer on the bike...:confused:



Oh mate it was a cracker. Took a tumble and spat the dummy big time. I'm sure he'll whack it up soon and all will make sense.

PaulMac
11-10-2010, 07:40 PM
Metro road on Sunday was mint. Rain overnight and in the morning made the conditions to die for. No dust in the morning but it did dry out quickly after lunch.

I tried the long sleeve compression shirt. Got some arm pump at one point but the thing definitely keeps you cool by wicking sweat away. Was almost too cool as it was only a 20 degree day. Muscles aren't at all sore the day after but I'm going to try it again on a hotter day before I really say yah or nay.

Uni
11-10-2010, 08:27 PM
everything here

Paul with the goods! +1 to everything said here.

To add though:
Dehydration, it's a bitch. It takes time to hydrate so drink heaps of water leading up to riding (drinking piss the night before... Umm, doesn't help); drink plenty while riding; drink after.. you get the idea. Many like the sports drinks as mentioned, but I only use it after event as it makes me feel sick while riding.

As to arm pump being in your mind? kinda. I wish i could just wish it away, some of us are lucky I guess. Stress will increase it's effect so 'try' to relax as mentioned earlier. I find that at the end of the day, I find a rhythm, relax, and thus let the bike do it's thing; arm pump is long gone. The start? Shiite..

Fitness makes a big difference too, it's something I lack a lot of so this is my killer. (ok so the beer is also a major pit fall for me too)

here's a good link if your interested
Fore Arm Pump And How To Beat It! (http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/arm-pump.html)

Ozboy
11-10-2010, 08:40 PM
One place where arm pump and fatigue are rife, is AJS motocross track. My bro races there and has found that motocross is much harder on him than endurance riding.

He swears by magnesium tablets. Have you taken antibiotics lately? Some antibiotics cause magnesium deficiency. Read the link and text below before supplementing your magnesium intake should you choose to do so.

Health Benefits of Magnesium (http://www.natural-health-girl.com/health-benefits-of-magnesium.html)

Magnesium is an essential mineral not only to the human body, but also to a variety of important biological functions. In fact, magnesium is involved in well over 300 metabolic processes. It is required for every major biological process, including the production of cellular energy and the synthesis of nucleic acids and proteins. It is also important for the electrical stability of human and animal cells, the support of cell membrane integrity, muscle contraction, nerve conduction, and the maintenance of vascular tone.

The total amount of magnesium found in an adult human is approximately 25 grams. About 50-60 of this amount is found in the body's bones. Magnesium is the second most abundant intracellular substance; potassium is the most abundant extra cellular. Only about 1 of the body's magnesium is found extracellularly.

It is also important to know that magnesium is intimately interlocked biologically with calcium. Magnesium and calcium cooperate in the production of adenosine triphosphate, or ATP. Conversely, in many metabolic processes, such as the synthesis of nucleic acids and protein, calcium and magnesium are antagonistic in nature. Magnesium is necessary for these processes, while calcium can inhibit them. Magnesium has been called by many the nature's physiological calcium channel blocker since it appears to regulate the intracellular flow of calcium ions.

Hmmm, I don't think he had his magnesium this morning. ^_^ (He told me later that arm pump was the reason he dropped his bike.)

http://ozboy.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/My-bro-racing/Kennyajs76/1042914089_2MzpP-L.jpg

http://ozboy.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/My-bro-racing/Kennyajs77/1042915090_SKkR5-L.jpg

http://ozboy.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/My-bro-racing/Kennyajs78/1042916090_yzqUN-L.jpg

dirt_infected
11-10-2010, 08:44 PM
As to arm pump being in your mind? kinda. I wish i could just wish it away, some of us are lucky I guess. Stress will increase it's effect so 'try' to relax as mentioned earlier. I find that at the end of the day, I find a rhythm, relax, and thus let the bike do it's thing; arm pump is long gone. The start? Shiite..


Well if happiness is a choice so is arm pump:rolleyes:

But it is certainly psychological for me and a cool breeze or conscious effort to relax and it goes away. Certainly you can "make decisions to move in a direction away from arm pump".

Dunno if you take off in the same direction as I usually do with PTS guys at metro, but yeah that first couple of k's is no fun- straight into shitty, rocky corrugations and tight trees. Gotta start with open stuff I reckon.

Uni
11-10-2010, 08:51 PM
My point was that it was a factor, but not something that you can just choose :confused:

PaulMac
11-10-2010, 09:00 PM
Ozboy, I have tried supplementing with Endura to boost my magnesium stores in my body. They say in the sales blurb that they use a patented form of easy absorb-able magnesium called Metamag but I found it made me really nauseous and just generally unwell. I don't think i had a noticeable reduction in arm pump so the side effects certainly weren't worth it for me. Might work for other people though.

Ozboy
11-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Thanks Paul, I was hoping there was someone else who had tried magnesium. Guess you didn't need it then. :rolleyes:

dirt_infected
11-10-2010, 09:05 PM
My point was that it was a factor, but not something that you can just choose :confused:

I know, and I was trying to suggest the same about the 'happiness is choice thread', but I guess mixing threads was always going to lead to confusion.

agrid
11-10-2010, 09:13 PM
I used to get arm pump something bad at the start of the windsurfing season, it went away after a few sessions. I felt like blood flow increased to the forearms.

PaulMac
11-10-2010, 09:14 PM
Thanks Paul, I was hoping there was someone else who had tried magnesium. Guess you didn't need it then. :rolleyes:

Not sure. I have a very bad diet (virtually no fruit and vegetables) so I try to make up for it by taking multi vitamins so maybe the them and the Endura was too much. I used Endura for about two months and when I rode, I didn't notice much if any reduction in arm pump.
To be fair, I'm now 40, nowhere near as fit as I used to be and don't ride as much as I used to so to beat arm pump now would probably mean a full blown attack of diet, cardio training and lots of dirt bike riding.
Anyone up for a ride. :lol:

Ozboy
11-10-2010, 09:25 PM
Not sure. I have a very bad diet (virtually no fruit and vegetables) so I try to make up for it by taking multi vitamins so maybe the them and the Endura was too much. I used Endura for about two months and when I rode, I didn't notice much if any reduction in arm pump.
To be fair, I'm now 40, nowhere near as fit as I used to be and don't ride as much as I used to so to beat arm pump now would probably mean a full blown attack of diet, cardio training and lots of dirt bike riding.
Anyone up for a ride. :lol:

Jeez mate, that sounds like too much work. ^_^ (coming from another 40 year old)

PaulMac
11-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Agreed...........except the going for a ride part. That's why I'm happy to keep eating crap and don't bother with much exercise.