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Old frt
12-11-2012, 07:33 PM
This should have been put in place last century, why has it taken so long for our fearless leaders to wake up when every half intelligent man and his dog has been aware of it for years.

The wealth and power of the catholic cult is mind boggling and I doubt they will suffer little more than collateral damage due to the influence they hold.

Of course it is not only the catholics who are under scrutiny but I dream of the day when they are outlawed as a criminal organisation.

Any so called christian organisation that covers up thier own criminals and moves them sideways has no place in civilised society to my way of thinking.

A very good friend of mine is the principal of a catholic school and a thoroughly decent and intelligent man, yet he still blindly defends his faith.

Your thoughts?

Desmo
12-11-2012, 07:55 PM
I think instead of saying it should have been done ages ago, we applaud this as a progressive action.
I thoroughly look forward to the outcome.
Well done, Gillard.

agrid
12-11-2012, 08:07 PM
"Survivor Vatican", put all the Catholic priests in Piazza San Pietro, the one that bites off the most ears wins.

ReCon
12-11-2012, 08:16 PM
Took them a while to clean out any evidence. Like a generation or 2.

Dr. Venkman
13-11-2012, 06:28 AM
That it has taken this long is what saddens me, especially when this sort of person stands up and tries to do something about it :

Whistleblower Det Ins Peter Fox vindicated as he weighs future (http://www.theage.com.au/national/satisfied-whistleblower-weighs-future-in-the-force-20121113-2994l.html)

GreenMeanie
13-11-2012, 08:12 AM
This Catholicism has been designed very very cunningly. Protestants live with their sins until they kark it. Catholics are resolved of their sins each time they climb into the tardis and do a confession.
"Forgive me Father I have sinned!"
"What are your sins Father?"
"I just butt fucked a couple of 6 years olds."
"Oh! 3 Hail Mary's and 10 minutes playing with your worry beads. Please forward your photos to me."
"Thank-you Father."
"THANK-YOU FATHER! Same time tomorrow?"

And on it goes. Clean slate. Hi ho hi ho.

Religion. You gotta love it!

chew
13-11-2012, 08:49 AM
Oh, great another Royal Commission.

A chance for everyone to have their say without any repercussions and then we can sweep it under the carpet and forget all about it.

Can someone tell me how many charges and convictions were obtained from a Royal Commission?

How many recommendations from the WAinc RC have been implemented for example? I think BB did some time for stealing some stamps from the Labor party?

Kisses $500mil+ goodbye over the background sound of lawyers rubbing their hands together.

Can we not spend the money on Policing it better now?

Trashed
13-11-2012, 12:07 PM
I watched Chrissie and Anthony Foster this morning on ABC breakfast, and saw how much this commission means to them and other victims.

Victims hail royal commission as bittersweet victory - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-13/victims-react-to-royal-commission-announcement/4368200)

I sincerely hope that the findings of the commission can help bring convictions, and some sort of help, justice or closure to those who have suffered. I also hope that this provides an opportunity for the Catholic Church to acknowledge that they have not dealt with this appropriately in the past, and that they are not above the law. There should never be a question that anyone who is accused of child abuse should be dealt with by the law, and not by the church. I honestly don't know how someone could live with themself if they were part of an act that covered up abuse. It's just intolerable.

Sventek
13-11-2012, 01:07 PM
I also hope that this provides an opportunity for the Catholic Church to acknowledge that they have not dealt with this appropriately in the past, and that they are not above the law.

It doesn't look like it, I'm afraid: Abuse probe will 'separate fact from fiction' - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/15368912/abuse-probe-will-separate-fact-from-fiction/)

=Maz=
13-11-2012, 01:31 PM
"CARDINAL George Pell says priests who hear confessions from colleagues who commit child sex abuse should remain bound by the Seal of Confession."
Defiant Cardinal George Pell says sex abuse royal commission will 'separate fact from fiction' | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/defiant-cardinal-george-pell-says-sex-abuse-royal-commission-will-separate-fact-from-fiction/story-fndo6ejf-1226515895912)

I can't see it being anything other than;
Victim: I was systematically abused by my local priest.
Priest: I don't know what you are talking about.
Head of the priests Diocese: I can not talk about that as it is covered by the Seal of Confession.

:(

Desmo
13-11-2012, 02:01 PM
So already they are making excuses and covering what they've done to little boy's arses.

shan
13-11-2012, 02:03 PM
I will cum on ye faithfull said the father to the poor alter(d) boy,

Say the lords name as you recive you punnishmant for your sinns boy

you ask why the boys choir sings so high pitched, well buggerd if i know Marry, devine like your son lol,

Roger Explosion
13-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Oh, great another Royal Commission.

A chance for everyone to have their say without any repercussions and then we can sweep it under the carpet and forget all about it.

Can someone tell me how many charges and convictions were obtained from a Royal Commission?

How many recommendations from the WAinc RC have been implemented for example? I think BB did some time for stealing some stamps from the Labor party?

Kisses $500mil+ goodbye over the background sound of lawyers rubbing their hands together.

Can we not spend the money on Policing it better now?

Sadly this.
Royal Commissions only end in recommendations. Nothing more.

PFLB
13-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Royal commissions are often established to look into conduct that would normally fall within the purview of police and prosecutors for a very simple reason - those two authorities have either been right in the thick of the wrongdoing, or have royally fucked up. This was the case in Queensland with the Fitzgerald inquiry, and it is quite obvious that only a royal commission could have done the job because the police were part and parcel of the brown paper bag trade. Although the state and federal police and social welfare agencies are not quite that bad in this instance, it is clear they have systematically failed to do their job. Handing more money to those bodies will achieve sweet fuck all unless and until someone from outside the rotten system throws a spotlight on it.

chew
13-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Royal commissions are often established to look into conduct that would normally fall within the purview of police and prosecutors for a very simple reason - those two authorities have either been right in the thick of the wrongdoing, or have royally fucked up. This was the case in Queensland with the Fitzgerald inquiry, and it is quite obvious that only a royal commission could have done the job because the police were part and parcel of the brown paper bag trade. Although the state and federal police and social welfare agencies are not quite that bad in this instance, it is clear they have systematically failed to do their job. Handing more money to those bodies will achieve sweet fuck all unless and until someone from outside the rotten system throws a spotlight on it.

Then we needed another three Royal Commissions into various Police Forces around the country to let us know that there are crooked coppers and we need to be wary and not complacent?

Now we will be told that there was (and still is, but most likely to a lesser extent) systematic abuse of children in "care" over the years by some people who intimidate and trick others into keeping quiet due to power structures in volunteer and underfunded organisations.

Whoever may be charged will plead that a fair trial is impossible after the Royal Commission.

Any news?

Bukefal
13-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Defiant Cardinal George Pell says sex abuse royal commission will 'separate fact from fiction' | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/defiant-cardinal-george-pell-says-sex-abuse-royal-commission-will-separate-fact-from-fiction/story-fndo6ejf-1226515895912)

notice how pell/the church is:

playing the victim

He welcomed the inquiry but said it was important for people to remember the inquiry was wide-reaching and the Catholic Church shouldn't be a scapegoat.

Cardinal Pell defended the church’s handling of complaints in a defiant press conference in Sydney, saying the church had been the subject of “general smears” in the media.

excusing priests for not reporting child rape and helping to enable child rape in the church

"(But) the Seal of Confession is inviolable."

minimising the issue of child rape

"We think this is an opportunity to help the victims, it's an opportunity to clear the air and separate fact from fiction," he said.

'clear the air'? you clear the air over trivial things like uncalibrated speed cameras and crazy council parking laws. we're talking about a long history of child rape (by a group claiming to be the epitome of morality) that leads directly to many ruined lives and suicides.

to top it off, this article fails to convey the criminal, inhumane, abhorrent nature of the actions of the church. so yet again, the church gets away with murder. but hey, we shouldn't question god's plan to allow all this.

mattski0_0
13-11-2012, 04:35 PM
Removal of the caveat on the confessional would be a good start.

Skut
13-11-2012, 08:19 PM
"Defiant" Cardinal Pell seems to be the very tar he is accusing the "media" of brushing his Church with. The sheer arrogance of this man in the face of such tragedy and his Church's culpability is simply astounding. It seems compassion trails far behind the protectionism for the Church - which is surely a sign it has stepped beyond it's social relevance.

mekon
13-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Save the money of a commission and empower the victims to come forward with their allegations and have them investigated and punish these people. That, or just whack half the priesthood and the occasional boarding house master. Oh and knock of that ex Hitler Youth creep at the Vatican.

I think Pell proved himself an idiot many a time over and again. The church has no real relevance in preaching morality in this day and age given their track record.

Old frt
13-11-2012, 09:36 PM
"Defiant" Cardinal Pell seems to be the very tar he is accusing the "media" of brushing his Church with. The sheer arrogance of this man in the face of such tragedy and his Church's culpability is simply astounding. It seems compassion trails far behind the protectionism for the Church - which is surely a sign it has stepped beyond it's social relevance.

Saw this pricks statement on the news tonight.

How the fuck can you defend your religion when the evidence of abuse within the catholic church has been proven time and time again.

Blatant fucking liar, or complete moron, you decide which.

Sventek
13-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Worse than that, like all of them I fear.

Skut
13-11-2012, 10:47 PM
If there is a broad-based enquiry, I am wondering if one of my teachers from my distant primary school years will be brought to task. I had a lucky escape; he assumed he had "groomed" me - I enjoyed the best room on a boarding school excursion... oh, but that was sharing with him - hmmm okay (this was grade 5). Then he is in my bed and going for the grab!

I ran out of that room and into one of the others, just full of kids - and spent the night there, saying nothing (yeah, the shame of it)

I went back to HIS room the next day, lulled him a little - then took a photo of him posing in pink underwear.... which I pinned up on the school noticeboard when school started again. I was reprimanded for that, but not overtly punished. I felt I had got my own back.

But I was only a kid, and I was never able to tell my mother about it. The prick sent me Christmas cards for 3 years!

My shame?

I got out of that room that night. But another kid was sharing that room... and I can't even remember his name. What did I leave them to?

It's the years of guilty silence that makes all of this unforgivable.

edit: Skut username should now be kuntS

peter600
13-11-2012, 11:38 PM
Pell needs to play defense. His job's on the line, as well as that bloody big gold ring he was wearing on the news tonight.
Hopefully some of their untold millions will be excised out of them over this. We should tax the buggers as well....

chew
14-11-2012, 07:11 AM
If there is a broad-based enquiry, I am wondering if one of my teachers from my distant primary school years will be brought to task. I had a lucky escape; he assumed he had "groomed" me - I enjoyed the best room on a boarding school excursion... oh, but that was sharing with him - hmmm okay (this was grade 5). Then he is in my bed and going for the grab!

I ran out of that room and into one of the others, just full of kids - and spent the night there, saying nothing (yeah, the shame of it)

I went back to HIS room the next day, lulled him a little - then took a photo of him posing in pink underwear.... which I pinned up on the school noticeboard when school started again. I was reprimanded for that, but not overtly punished. I felt I had got my own back.

But I was only a kid, and I was never able to tell my mother about it. The prick sent me Christmas cards for 3 years!

My shame?

I got out of that room that night. But another kid was sharing that room... and I can't even remember his name. What did I leave them to?

It's the years of guilty silence that makes all of this unforgivable.

edit: Skut username should now be kuntS

That is tragic. :(

There is little a child can do against corrupt authority and that is where the problem lies.

I feel you wont stop but try not to beat yourself up over it.

Skut
14-11-2012, 09:03 AM
^ cheers. Less a beat-up of myself and more a first-hand illustration of how some people who were on the receiving end might feel (however minor my own experience).

Interestingly, Pell is using tactics common to serial abusers to keep their "victims" quiet. Stern, paternalistic, authoritative - with a hint of threat laced with "caring"

Pell :"Truth from fiction" Abuser: "Are you sure you remember that right? It must have been a dream etc"

Pell: "Would media attention benefit the "alleged" victims" Abuser: "You wouldn't want anyone to know. It's our special secret..."

MADOGA
14-11-2012, 09:21 AM
I'll be interested to see how this commission goes,
a lot of those who will/should/need to come under scrutiny are wealthy powerful and connected, these people generally get away with kiddy fiddling due to the previous reasons.

no doubt it will go on for some years cost a lot of time money and misery and at the end a couple of minor fiddlers will get jailed and business as usually for the rest.

Desmo
14-11-2012, 10:48 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/20402_263960613726691_913422683_n.jpg

Gothchick
14-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Pell, in MHO, is just as bad as the scum that committ these crimes :(

I seriously have to question their faith in their own religion. According to The Book, you sin, you go downstairs.

These scumbags don't seem too concerned about their impending journey, do they? Maybe they know something the rest of us don't? I for one, wouldn't be relying on 'but I'm sorry, really I am' saving my arse from Hell for all Eternity.

People who molest and rape are filth, end of story.

Gothchick
14-11-2012, 09:55 PM
And Skut, you are missing one important fact...you did nothing wrong :)

You have an adult, who knows right from wrong, choosing to physically and emotionally hurt a child and you have an innocent child, who did nothing to deserve either, it's not difficult to work out who is at fault.

Skut
14-11-2012, 10:45 PM
And Skut, you are missing one important fact...you did nothing wrong :)

You have an adult, who knows right from wrong, choosing to physically and emotionally hurt a child and you have an innocent child, who did nothing to deserve either, it's not difficult to work out who is at fault.

Hah, way back then I thought I was a hero for pinning that photo up on the school noticeboard - it may have caused him to pull his head in a little, and shining a light on the shadows is the first step. But the school then stepped on me - for the remaining years I spent there. My first experience in senior school was my new house-master saying, in front of the rest of the form "Poll, I hear you are good for nothing" which was enough to make me stand up to all the bullies, re-establish the school gym team, and captain the wrestling team to the first wins in a decade (and yes, the images on a wrestling trophy are very relevant to this thread ;) )

Point One: I was not a victim, but could have been.

Point Two: I harbour no malice towards anyone - that teacher had problems, but was not inherently evil (and this is a prejudice society needs to deal with as a whole) but it is the covering-up by the institutions, be they schools, churches... whatever, in such a mercenary fashion that I cannot abide.

I had little respect for Pell based on his past performance. His latest comments have placed him on my gleefull groin-kicking level - I see evil in this man, and I suspect this will come to light some day.

He has something to hide, it shows.

Old frt
14-11-2012, 11:03 PM
The terms of reference will be interesting.
Pell says the confessional is sacrosant.
S'cuse me but when did the catholic church write the laws of this land?

Buffle
15-11-2012, 07:19 AM
I wonder whether these new laws in Western Australia (http://www.news.com.au/national/new-wa-crime-laws-to-target-bikie-gangs/story-fndo4e3y-1226516932925) will be applied pending the outcome of the royal commission....

Sventek
15-11-2012, 08:45 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7s7_OwCAAInmv1.jpg

=Maz=
15-11-2012, 09:46 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7s7_OwCAAInmv1.jpg

Where the hell can I get me 1 of them? LMAO

aesch
15-11-2012, 09:48 AM
Where are the followers of this faith, why are they not in the street demanding an inquiry and then justice. Given it is their very own friends and family who are the victims. There are 700 000 odd of you (you catholics) who mass regularly. You, those of you not at Pell's door with an angry fist raised are part of the problem. Get organized and get going.

AZAZL
15-11-2012, 12:34 PM
This seems stupid to me. If a priest denied something told to him in a confessional, how could he be convicted of withholding evidence:

Father Ped1: I told Father Ped2 what I did.
Father Ped2: No he didn't
YesIdidNoyoudidn'tYesIdidNoyoudidn'tYesIdidNoyoudi dn'tYesIdidNoyoudidn'tYesIdidNoyoudidn't

peter600
16-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Where are the followers of this faith, why are they not in the street demanding an inquiry and then justice. Given it is their very own friends and family who are the victims. There are 700 000 odd of you (you catholics) who mass regularly. You, those of you not at Pell's door with an angry fist raised are part of the problem. Get organized and get going.

My sister is a devout [read fundamentalist] catholic.
I have asked her the very questions you raise.
Her response: it's not the church, just a few rotten apples in the barrel.
The faithful are in denial. They cannot contemplate life without their psychological crutch....

xphread
16-11-2012, 01:03 PM
Although I dont agree fully with the particular wording, (its not my in my personal nature), I cant help but concede to the sentiment of Tim Minchin's pope song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE

agrid
17-11-2012, 01:22 PM
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, 1999.

agrid
17-11-2012, 01:29 PM
Hah, way back then I thought I was a hero for pinning that photo up on the school noticeboard - it may have caused him to pull his head in a little, and shining a light on the shadows is the first step. But the school then stepped on me - for the remaining years I spent there. My first experience in senior school was my new house-master saying, in front of the rest of the form "Poll, I hear you are good for nothing" which was enough to make me stand up to all the bullies, re-establish the school gym team, and captain the wrestling team to the first wins in a decade (and yes, the images on a wrestling trophy are very relevant to this thread ;) )

Point One: I was not a victim, but could have been.

Point Two: I harbour no malice towards anyone - that teacher had problems, but was not inherently evil (and this is a prejudice society needs to deal with as a whole) but it is the covering-up by the institutions, be they schools, churches... whatever, in such a mercenary fashion that I cannot abide.

I had little respect for Pell based on his past performance. His latest comments have placed him on my gleefull groin-kicking level - I see evil in this man, and I suspect this will come to light some day.

He has something to hide, it shows.

Sounds like evidence to me, why don't you do something more useful with the photo.

Old frt
17-11-2012, 01:57 PM
Time to change the church window?
79430

Skut
17-11-2012, 02:05 PM
Peter Hollingworth...

"Retired Anglican Archbishop and former Australian governor general Peter Hollingworth says he welcomes the Royal Commission into child abuse and says he would happily appear as a witness. He told Saturday AM's Elizabeth Jackson, that he believes legislating against the sanctity of confession would be useless, because he says priests and ministers would simply break the law."

WTF?

And if they get caught breaking the law they get charged, right?

These people seem to consider themselves outside of any social, ethical, or legal framework.

Kristy
27-05-2013, 08:37 PM
Cardinal George Pell admits Church covered up cases of child sex abuse - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/cardinal-george-pell-appears-at-sex-abuse-inquiry/4714964?section=nsw)

Cbr1k
27-05-2013, 09:19 PM
If there was a below hang that had so many molesters they would be outlawed under the new laws. Why can't they do the same to the church

agrid
27-05-2013, 09:30 PM
At lest Pell seemed genuinely apologetic.

Hamster
27-05-2013, 09:59 PM
Ironic isn't it
Pope Francis says atheists who do good are SAVED | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330135/Pope-Francis-says-atheists-good-SAVED.html)
even atheists can get forgiveness, so it's probably easy for a few paedophile priests.

Old frt
27-05-2013, 10:03 PM
At lest Pell seemed genuinely apologetic.

Bullshit, he was genuinely aware that you can only lie for so long.

agrid
27-05-2013, 10:05 PM
Bullshit, he was genuinely aware that you can only lie for so long.

Yeah, you're probably right.

Phildo
27-05-2013, 10:12 PM
At lest Pell seemed genuinely apologetic.

Fuck that.

Saying sorry after the fact is nowhere acceptable.

Things have been going on for years. Dodgy priests just get transferred to another parish, etc.

Saying sorry is an insult - they knew that crap was going on at the time, and made a choice to do nothing about it.


Bullshit, he was genuinely aware that you can only lie for so long.

This. It's like a bad politician. Craig Thompson, anyone?

Skut
27-05-2013, 10:18 PM
At lest Pell seemed genuinely apologetic.

I was hoping you were being sarcastic?

Same old words "You must understand..." "Under the circumstances..."

Heartfelt apology? More excuses for inaction and the fact that the institution was considered more important than the people it purported to serve and care for.

agrid
27-05-2013, 10:18 PM
The expectation was that he was going to try and protect himself and the church, that's why I commented that at least this time he seemed apologetic and prepared to pay fair compensation.

AliastheJester
27-05-2013, 10:30 PM
Ironic isn't it
Pope Francis says atheists who do good are SAVED | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330135/Pope-Francis-says-atheists-good-SAVED.html)
even atheists can get forgiveness, so it's probably easy for a few paedophile priests.

How am I meant to use the threat of hellfire and damnation to coerce people into Christianity now?



I preferred the response from the Christian Brothers representative, he said that there was no defense for what happened and then went on to detail what had gone on.

Old frt
27-05-2013, 10:30 PM
The expectation was that he was going to try and protect himself and the church, that's why I commented that at least this time he seemed apologetic and prepared to pay fair compensation.

Not having a shot at you agrid but this is what really makes me spew.

The fact they think any sort of monetary compensation is fair and a ruined childhood can somehow be erased from memory with a cash injection.

Just how many people have already received this 'compensation' out of court to remain silent?

agrid
27-05-2013, 10:55 PM
Not having a shot at you agrid but this is what really makes me spew.

The fact they think any sort of monetary compensation is fair and a ruined childhood can somehow be erased from memory with a cash injection.

Just how many people have already received this 'compensation' out of court to remain silent?

Would you rather he just told everyone to go eat name dick?

Skut
27-05-2013, 11:06 PM
Would you rather he just told everyone to go eat name dick?

He probably knows a few who have!

As a senior member of a supposedly respected religious institution based upon the sacrifice of a man/god who preached compassion and caring and tossed out the money-lenders in the temple?

I would rather far better than that piss-poor effort and political face-saving gesture.

Old frt
27-05-2013, 11:10 PM
Would you rather he just told everyone to go eat name dick?

No, I would rather they were open and accountable and told us of all the offenders not yet named and shamed.

Pretty sure their list would be a damn sight bigger than the already huge list currently out there.

Neil-51
28-05-2013, 12:08 PM
I watched about 15 minutes of Pell. I found him offensive. One defence he used was that they adhered to existing church protocols. Wasn't the moral compass strong enough?

He seemed insincere and carefully crafted his answers to minimise damage to the church. When challenged on responses he gave that lacked credibility, he looked like a man who was not use to being questioned.

When being pursued by a very articulate woman he actually appeared to be angry.

Scott52
28-05-2013, 06:06 PM
I watched about 15 minutes of Pell. I found him offensive. One defence he used was that they adhered to existing church protocols. Wasn't the moral compass strong enough?

He seemed insincere and carefully crafted his answers to minimise damage to the church. When challenged on responses he gave that lacked credibility, he looked like a man who was not use to being questioned.

When being pursued by a very articulate woman he actually appeared to be angry.

I watched Pell on the 7.30 Report and found him as bad as any other corporate psychopath. His lack of empathy for the victims is amazing. Protect the organisation first is always the way, be it the Catholic Church or Enron.

They also interviewed a Catholic Parish Priest from Melbourne I think who was one of the good guys in the organisation. I thought he was very brave in that he said in his opinion, George should get onto his knees and beg for forgiveness. That poor family the Fosters ... lost both their children effectively due to the non action of the church. Both abused by the same Catholic Priest for years. The oldest girl committed suicide and the youngest girl then started abusing alcohol and was run over by a car and is now disabled.

Those girls could have been saved if the church had taken decisive action years before and the girls treated for the trauma they endured.