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View Full Version : Unwanted Xmas present animals being dumped already



peter600
30-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Just saw a piece on the news.
Shenton Park Dogs Home and Cat Haven already getting hammered from people who don't want their furry Xmas present.

People do make mistakes, but this was in the news early in December [don't do it], last Xmas [why did you do it?], and every xmas before that.

What thought process causes a person to think a live animal is a good thing to surprise someone with at Xmas???

ffs.... the word moronic springs to mind.... and animals should not be sold down at the shops!

thro
30-12-2012, 06:37 PM
Sad. But it doesn't surprise me. PLenty of idiots out there.

Desmo
30-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Any birds being handed in for adoption?

jmoore
30-12-2012, 06:46 PM
ffs.... the word moronic springs to mind.... and animals should not be sold down at the shops!

Have you ever been to the breeders down Gosnells way? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?

Jaye
30-12-2012, 07:28 PM
I see so many pop up through the rescues and that's not even the whole of it :( this is the main reason I got my pedigree am staff desexed, I just couldn't bare the thought of her pups being in that situation.
I just wish the government could/would do more about it and stop backyard breeding :( too many lovely animals are being pts because of over supply and plain greediness.

peter600
30-12-2012, 10:41 PM
Have you ever been to the breeders down Gosnells way? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?

Have no idea what yr getting at....

Stu
30-12-2012, 10:50 PM
Agreed Peter600. If you're not sure if you can look after a dog or cat for 10-20 years, don't get one!

rod
31-12-2012, 06:07 AM
Agreed Peter600. If you're not sure if you can look after a dog or cat for 10-20 years, don't get one!

The animal is a gift, so the person who is to be looking after it isn't the person choosing to buy the animal (along with the responsibility for it).

waikiki
31-12-2012, 06:51 AM
Yes, very sad but oh so very true. My wife and I were just discussing the other day about adopting another dog or cat and I said to wait until after xmas as I'm sure that there would be plenty of unwanted animals needing homes, just didn't think I would see the reports so soon.
I thought "throw away society" usually meant material things, not animals :(


Sad. But it doesn't surprise me. PLenty of idiots out there.

Graelin
31-12-2012, 09:00 AM
Urban Animal Management

This is a poorly understood area with many in power who have no idea of it yet make decisions that cause problems. The Dog Act 1976 is an example.

There are many sound reasons on why pet shops should not sell dogs. There are many puppy farms breeding dogs for profit only both in WA and Eastern States. While there is a demand for dogs these cretins who run these will continue.

Sterilisation schemes will always fail when the market demands dogs, puppy farms will continue to supply.

Education program's that contain information on responsible decisions on obtaining dogs are needed. They are available but after twenty years they sit on shelfs not used.

Mr_Mike
31-12-2012, 10:08 AM
yeah was pretty sad to see the report, was even worse to hear when they said its not even the peak "dumping" season yet. Thats usually around Febuary when the puppies are starting to become more of a handful and less cute.

Personally i would never buy a puppy/kitten from a pet shop and i dont think they should sell them. There is plenty of "cute" and healthy dogs in pounds and if your just wanting a family pet these are more than suitable. I can understand some people what that specific breed or pedigree and thats fine as usually the breeders you get these dogs from are not cowboys and have pretty strict rules when you do buy from them.
An example is a mate of mine wanted a pure bred American Staffy, so they went to a breeder had to go a fair few meetings with the dog and the breeder before being selected to actually get a puppy. They also had to commit to continual dog obedience training courses, the breeder is in constant contact with them about the dog and they are also not allowed to breed the dog once the right age he gets desexed.
They now have an amazing very staunch dog, who can get a bit crazy at times being of teen age but is well trained and knows his place soon as my mate raises his voice.

jmoore
31-12-2012, 01:41 PM
Have no idea what yr getting at....

Its because your not using your noggin.

Go check out some of the breeders out in Gosnells and you will soon realise that pet stores and "backyard breeders" are not the issue here.

Buffle
31-12-2012, 01:49 PM
I believe there should be a waiting period before being able to buy a dog, and that there should be a test to obtain a permit. This test would include ensuring people know that puppies will be scared and keep you awake at first, that digging and chewing are certain, and that the prospective dog owner understands basic training and very basic dog psychology. This would not only reduce the number of dumped dogs, but also the poorly treated ones. It would not be a major impost on what is typically a 10+ year commitment, and the permit could be a once-off.

Graelin
31-12-2012, 02:46 PM
A couple of guys in Perth developed a handbook for dog owners twenty years ago. Part of PHD research. First time in the world that animal behaviour and law put together on how to comply with the laws.
Was suitable for a Dog Owner License, they took this to the Minister with a proposal on licensing owners, if you desexed, if you did the voluntary test fees were low. If you did nether fees were higher. So was incentive based.

A complete Dog Owner package for Local Government was developed.

WA government refused to use this because it was a world first and had not been used elsewhere in the world.

These two guys banged their heads for ten years before the rejection by Dept of Local Government beurocrats and gave up.

The answers are out there but it is not a political issue until a dog attack gets press coverage then knee jerk laws are passed that have not worked elsewhere in the world.

WA is the punitive State where passing restrictive laws is the fix all bandage.

PS this "Dog Owner Behavioural Management Program" was run for four years in a Perth Local Authority with offences detected against the Dog Act reduced by fifty percent and same result for dog impounding. The accountant said this had ruined his budget figures!

Ryven
31-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Agreed Peter600. If you're not sure if you can look after a dog or cat for 10-20 years, don't get one!

I like to think I won't be around for that next 20 years, but instead that my cat will inherit my estate with his own butler and the likes.

Mo-Fo
31-12-2012, 03:06 PM
Agreed Peter600. If you're not sure if you can look after a dog or cat for 10-20 years, don't get one!
Fully agree.

Nothing much phases me and good luck trying to offend me, but I find animal cruelty or a lack of care for their well being is pretty much the one thing that I can't stomach. I've no doubt that most pet owners are good pet owners. Unfortunately there are a few myopian individuals who can't see past their own breakfast.

I'd like to see them on death row along with the poor animals who are there directly because of their total lack of pet responsibility. See how they like it.

peter600
31-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Its because your not using your noggin.

Go check out some of the breeders out in Gosnells and you will soon realise that pet stores and "backyard breeders" are not the issue here.

pet shops are the cutting edge of the problem. Just stand outside one sometime and watch the behaviour of people who went to the shops to buy groceries, without a single thought of getting a pet, suddenly getting sidetracked by the cute little puppies and kittens and rabbits in the front window.

You can see this at any suburban shopping centre.

I never mentioned breeders, either backyard or legitimate. So, not sure why you're having a crack about that. BUT puppy farms are a well documented source of animals dovetailing into the shops' activities....

And let me add, we have a product of the puppy farm/pet shop trade at our house. Physical and psychological problems we've been dealing with for 9 years. Lots of meds and stress.

The politicians are as weak as piss about this issue.

Desmo
31-12-2012, 03:56 PM
pet shops are the cutting edge of the problem.

That's like blaming a petrol station for someone sniffing petrol.

deano68er
31-12-2012, 03:59 PM
He may be referring to the type of people influenced into buying on sight then rather making an informed decision on the long term commitment that any pet deserves. Just throwing that out there.

peter600
31-12-2012, 03:59 PM
So, simply going to a petrol station suddenly gives you an overwhelming urge to sniff petrol?
I don't think so.

And that particular activity doesn't involve a 3rd party, in any case.

Desmo
31-12-2012, 04:01 PM
He may be referring to the type of people influenced into buying on sight then rather making an informed decision on the long term commitment that any pet deserves. Just throwing that out there.

But that isn't the fault of the pet shop, it's the fault of the irresponsible person who wants a fluffy new toy.
I know, let's make some more legislation to stop pet shops selling pets!

deano68er
31-12-2012, 04:03 PM
What's wrong with that

peter600
31-12-2012, 04:42 PM
But that isn't the fault of the pet shop, it's the fault of the irresponsible person who wants a fluffy new toy.
I know, let's make some more legislation to stop pet shops selling pets!

Yes mate, you are absolutely right. It's ultimately the fault of the irresponsible person who wants a fluffy new toy. But the pet shops are complicit.

The "fluffy new toy" is alive, and it's not an acceptable outcome for it to end up on the street, in a wheelie bin, or a plastic bag in the river, or simply being maltreated for years.

I don't have a problem with people's emotions being manipulated by the retail trade to make them buy a fluffy toy made in China, or the latest mobile phone, or a RC helicopter or any of the other shit that people are made to feel they can't do without.
But animals, who have no voice, can be left out of that particular scenario afaik.

Somebody once said, you can judge a society by the way it treats animals.... the legislation is for the animals, not the people.

Graelin
31-12-2012, 04:49 PM
The Critical Development Period for a dog is in approximately the first fourteen weeks of its life. This is the socialisation period. The best time to remove the dog from mother and socialise with new family is around seven weeks.
Failure to manage this period results in behaviour issues later. We call this the "Failed Human Animal Bond." These dogs end up in pounds and destroyed for behavioural reasons. See because they chew, dig, bite and or bark excessively they become a problem then are not claimed.

Pet shops through puppy farms take the dogs early, they are cute. Then subjected to people banging on windows etc during the critical development process.

No need to ban pet shops selling dogs just give people the information on how to choose a dog correctly. Then they make an informed choice. Not one based on instant emotion.

Puppy preschool at vets is one of the best investments for socialisation.

filbert
31-12-2012, 06:31 PM
The Critical Development Period for a dog is in approximately the first fourteen weeks of its life. This is the socialisation period. The best time to remove the dog from mother and socialise with new family is around seven weeks.
Failure to manage this period results in behaviour issues later. We call this the "Failed Human Animal Bond." These dogs end up in pounds and destroyed for behavioural reasons. See because they chew, dig, bite and or bark excessively they become a problem then are not claimed.

Pet shops through puppy farms take the dogs early, they are cute. Then subjected to people banging on windows etc during the critical development process.

No need to ban pet shops selling dogs just give people the information on how to choose a dog correctly. Then they make an informed choice. Not one based on instant emotion.

Puppy preschool at vets is one of the best investments for socialisation.

the breeder i bought my labrador from gave slightly different timeframes but still made sense and he has been a beautiful dog that required very little training for good behaviour.

they said the first 8 weeks are learning to be a dog, the next 4 weeks with the mother they learn how to be a pet dog and follow her lead, i picked him up at 12 weeks took him home and he was settled in within days, sitting on command a week later and barking on command within a few weeks, he doesn't bark unless instructed or someone surprises him in the yard and doesn't dig unless it's hot and he wants somewhere cool to lay down.

their timeframes might be different and possibly even wrong but he's the best behaved dog i've had with very little work so there must be something to it.

Desmo
31-12-2012, 06:32 PM
What's wrong with that

Because more legislation is just what we need, right?

deano68er
31-12-2012, 06:55 PM
Because more legislation is just what we need, right?

Well yes more legislation may be what is needed. If there is more paperwork or hoops to jump thru then that may stop or at least discourage impulse purchasing of animals. This may lead to less being euthanised. Great idea desmo.

Desmo
31-12-2012, 07:21 PM
Well yes more legislation may be what is needed. If there is more paperwork or hoops to jump thru then that may stop or at least discourage impulse purchasing of animals. This may lead to less being euthanised. Great idea desmo.

No need for the condescending last line, was there?
I'm just against legislature in general, we are legislated up to our eyeballs as it is and things are just getting worse.
Soon you'll need a ticket to shit.

filbert
31-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Anarchy rules!

zero
31-12-2012, 08:20 PM
What thought process causes a person to think a live animal is a good thing to surprise someone with at Xmas???

Sadly, I suspect there is no thought process or thinking involved. Christmas histeria and puppy in the window.

No regard to want/not want; breed type, temperament and nature, origin; breed risks, genetics, parent testing, etc, etc.

I am of the view that banning the sale of dogs and cats at pet shops would be a good start. It undermines the potential for some to profit from minimal margins (farms and shops), and leave the mess for others to clean up.

Some pet product suppliers have entered into arrangements with rescue organisations to host adoption days and this seems like a good thing.

On one hand, more could be done to educate consumers but I am not sure how it should be done. Who would/should pay for this (effective ad campaigns cost big $). What would be targetted first and who decides? Anti puppy farms, anti designer dogs, breeding without testing, etc? The apparent failure of the no pets for presents message, suggests that many consumers or their 'benefactors' don't listen.

On the other hand, you can't always fix (through education or legislation) stupidity. Look at the $ spent on road safety promotion and legislation.

In relation to backyarders, we will continue to hear "my dog's good so I want to breed it/give it one litter". Too simplistic.

There is no profit to be made in good breeding. Particularly when done with appropriate research, ethical and caring practices, and improvement of a breed as a motivation.

Dirty
31-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Just saw a piece on the news.
Shenton Park Dogs Home and Cat Haven already getting hammered from people who don't want their furry Xmas present

They are always at capacity, it's just a funding drive imo.
The shelters in perth are a joke anyway, more interested in their own organisation than actually doing anything to improve situation for animals in perth.
Why else are they continually trying to re-home breeds that are not suited to urban life? Because they're the breeds people want.
They need to re assess which animals they re-home and which they euthanase, because it's ass about atm.

zero
31-12-2012, 09:27 PM
They are always at capacity, it's just a funding drive imo.
The shelters in perth are a joke anyway, more interested in their own organisation than actually doing anything to improve situation for animals in perth.

Why?

Buffle
31-12-2012, 10:12 PM
They are always at capacity, it's just a funding drive imo.
The shelters in perth are a joke anyway, more interested in their own organisation than actually doing anything to improve situation for animals in perth.
Why else are they continually trying to re-home breeds that are not suited to urban life? Because they're the breeds people want.
They need to re assess which animals they re-home and which they euthanase, because it's ass about atm.

In their hapless struggles to help they have clearly missed the mark of becoming the supreme expert and authority that you are.

Dirty
31-12-2012, 10:14 PM
In their hapless struggles to help they have clearly missed the mark of becoming the supreme expert and authority that you are.

If you had any experience with them you would know what i'm talking about.
FFS they re-home am-stafs without ensuring the suitability of owners
Perth does not need any am-stafs

zero
31-12-2012, 10:21 PM
Perth does not need any am-stafs with owners that are unsuitable

Partly fixed. Only partly and just trying to help.

Mr_Mike
31-12-2012, 10:29 PM
all i know is that in a couple weeks i should be able to get a awesome dog for a couple hundred that would of cost me a grand before xmas ;)

Maxo
31-12-2012, 10:52 PM
pet shops are the cutting edge of the problem. Just stand outside one sometime and watch the behaviour of people who went to the shops to buy groceries, without a single thought of getting a pet, suddenly getting sidetracked by the cute little puppies and kittens and rabbits in the front window.

It's akin to blaming fast food outlets for being the sole reason for the spike in obesity.

Sure they provide low cost, calorie rich, nutrient deficiant foods to the masses, but like all other markets, their ability to sell is directly proportional to the demand.

Pet shops exist because people want to purchase a pet, and just like fast food outlets, the lowest common denominator is going to be there, buying shit they don't need.


Lots of meds and stress.

Meds?!

peter600
31-12-2012, 11:21 PM
It's akin to blaming fast food outlets for being the sole reason for the spike in obesity.

Sure they provide low cost, calorie rich, nutrient deficiant foods to the masses, but like all other markets, their ability to sell is directly proportional to the demand.

Pet shops exist because people want to purchase a pet, and just like fast food outlets, the lowest common denominator is going to be there, buying shit they don't need.



Meds?!

As I said above, let's get animals out of the shit-people-don't-need category!! An unwanted burger does not suffer pain.
Pet shops exist because people want to purchase a pet... 14 year olds want to purchase alcohol, well, let's just give 'em what they want!

Imagine this: numbnut goes shopping, sees pet shop [with no animals on the premises], makes decision to get a puppy because they look so cute in the pictures in the pet shop window, gets the groceries, takes them home, forgets all about compulsive spur-of-the-moment decision to get a furry friend [which will turn into a furry pain in the ass 3 months later]. End of story!


Meds- 30mg Phenobarbitone. Controls seizures. Charlie has epilepsy. Started when he was about 1 year old, he's 9 now. Have you seen a dog have a seizure?

Pet shop's interest when I told them [so they wouldn't keep breeding from his parents].... ZERO! Couldn't give a shit!
tablets cost $70 for 50 days' supply. I'm not whinging, just have personal awareness of how fucked the pet trade is....

btw: Consumer affairs have advised me I probably have the right to be compensated for expenditure for his epilepsy. That might make the pet trade take a bit more interest in their breeding "programs", eh?

Kawasaki cat
31-12-2012, 11:48 PM
This is just sad having a pet is a big commitment but some people don't realise that.
I worked in a pet shop for 3 years and the amount of people that would walk in and see all the cute animals and go i want that one without even knowing how to look after it or have anything for it is shocking, quite often i would have to actually persuade someone out of getting a dog. A young girl came in with $500 cash wanting to buy a puppy but she knew her parents wouldn't approve so she said "i'll just hide it under my bed" thats the attitude some people have....... But i can guarrantee if pet shops stop selling animals you can kiss them goodbye they're alreadly shutting down left, right and centre the main sales that would keep the shop i was in going was puppies and kittens:(

I agree though there definetley needs to be restrictions on who can sell or buy puppies/kittens.

deano68er
01-01-2013, 01:00 AM
No need for the condescending last line, was there?
I'm just against legislature in general, we are legislated up to our eyeballs as it is and things are just getting worse.
Soon you'll need a ticket to shit.

Wow
Didn't realise you were that sensitive.
As for shitting I suppose it comes down to how much and where you think you are entitled to shit. Some seem to think they can when and on whomever they choose.

Graelin
02-01-2013, 02:49 PM
After examining statistics going back ten years and seeing no reduction in offences and animals impounded I concluded that enforcement and increased regulation was having no effect.

So I contacted a PHD researcher in Animal behaviour.

Together we designed "A Behavioural Management Program." This was a world first project and we trialled many differnt programs. Some worked some did not.

After four years we had reduced Infringement Notices by dog owners by fifty percent as well as dog impoundings significantly reduced. If you have an effective program OFFENCES should reduce.

We used newspapers and school visits, pet shows in school, colouring in competitions with good and bad dogs for ten year olds to take home.

We designed a "Dog Agility Park" where dogs were trained and exercised the body and mind.

We produced a 44 page booklet on Dog Behavour and legislation Provided free to Dog Owners when they registered their dog at Council. This was a world first where law and behaviour were addressed to assist owners comply with the laws.

We built a Mobile Education Resource




I believe if we just re home dogs we will allways rehome dogs.

Ryven
02-01-2013, 07:14 PM
I can understand why a lot of gifted pets get dumped. They are an ongoing financial burden that has fangs and claws, shits and pukes. Then there's the damage to clothing and furniture. Anyone who buys the unprepared an animal as a gift is a moron.

I picked up a kitten from the Cat haven on Saturday.

I've named him Indi, short for Indignation - I felt it suited his personality. And now, a little about him, and cats in general if people are considering buying one.

He's adorable. He's also kind of a dick. His hobbies include: scuffing mats and furniture, meowing when he feels he isn't getting any/enough attention, attempting to climb bare legs, climbing clothed legs, doing those cutesy little kitten nip bites that if aren't put to an end early seems to develop into the cat thinking it's OK to bite people. His favourite game at the moment seems to be the one where he gently swats at my nose, and then if I don't react to him doing this, he'll attempt to bite it.

He seems to be able to eat and then shit his own mass in food in a 24 hour period. There is no loss due to internal cat processes - I'm certain the entire eating thing is out of spite (Don't overfeed your kitten, we can't even use the pictures to destroy a thread). He's already had his first two jabs and will require another one in a month, then he'll have to be desexed. Not just that I would get him desexed because I don't want him running around spraying and shit, which I don't... My shire is requiring by the end of the year that all cats must be micro-chipped, desexed (unless you're a licenced breeder), and wear a collar with name tag and contact details for the owner, in addition to being registered. I don't feel this is in any way unreasonable, but for the registration fees, which is just more of the shire trying to wring more money out of those unfortunate enough to live within this locality. I'd also like to note that, for those interested, as a shelter cat the three jabs, his micro-chipping and the "snip" are included in the price of the cat.

Ongoings for a cat will start with the basics: food, water, litter (this one never stops if it's an indoors cat) as well as the daily cleaning of food bowls and the litter tray. Then there's the worming/flea treatments as well as any vet bills the little dear should incur as a result of injuring himself. For those who are curious, vet bills are a bit like human doctor bills, only more expensive (perhaps a slight exaggeration). Particularly if you're looking at a purebred with known health concerns, you'll want to look at some kind of pet insurance plan if you can't afford to fork out $3000 while laughingly writing "whacky feline antics" into the notes of your cheque book. Then there's the matter of how a healthy cat will easily live to 15 years - only by then it'll be less cute and playful, and more like a lurking reminder of your own impending demise.

I don't know what else there is to say really... If you don't have a specific purebred in mind, please consider adopting a shelter cat. A lot of the initial costs are already dealt with, the animals need homes and the industry needs support to keep itself afloat.

XSorXpire
05-01-2013, 01:21 AM
I think you people are all on the wrong page.

Knock em all, feed them to the Chinese and everybody gets to play with puppies.

I see a golden opportunity to kick start an untapped export market.

Dogs are another form of meat in some countries and we appear to have an over supply at the moment.
So build an abattoir to bone the meat and package it up appropriately.

Live export of this type of meat may cause too much of an uproar, so it will have to be slaughtered here.

Biffer
05-01-2013, 01:44 AM
passes complimentary toothpicks

XSorXpire
05-01-2013, 02:14 AM
passes complimentary toothpicks

Plucks frog from teeth after tonights dinner.

filbert
05-01-2013, 02:21 AM
Well I guess it beats senseless waste of a protein source and may prevent some animal suffering once they became valuable, but I think I would struggle with the idea of consuming meat from a companion animal......

Unless it was cat.

XSorXpire
05-01-2013, 02:26 AM
Just as the hindus do beef and the Bible bacon.

peter600
05-01-2013, 09:27 AM
And I just can't bring myself to eat oysters....

They're so cute!

Graelin
05-01-2013, 10:34 AM
Mmmm,

The great difficulty at the coal face is everyone has what they see as a valid place for pets. Imagine having to solve a problem in the street with people who MUST not be offended but one sees a dog as a delicacy, one can't go near a dog without having to launder their clothes and the other lets the dog sleep in bed with them. Three very strong views and rangers have to solve this issue with out generating offence and complaints.

Everyone has a simplistic way to solve what is a complex issue. Does any council plan for pets in design of a subdivision? Yet maybe sixty percent will have a pet. Only one Local Government Town Planner came to a two day seminar on Planning for Pets we put on. We have probably the best Town Planner in the world on this in Australia.