PDA

View Full Version : Cage fighting ban



Algy
13-01-2013, 10:28 AM
Cage fight ban upsets fighters - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/15818476/cage-fight-ban-upsets-fighters/)

Nanny state strikes again
Fighting is bad mmkay

Nine
13-01-2013, 10:33 AM
So what's the proposed alternative?

Algy
13-01-2013, 10:46 AM
Northbridge?

Desmo
13-01-2013, 11:11 AM
So what's the proposed alternative?

Standard boxing ring.

Uncle Stinky
13-01-2013, 11:11 AM
It's ok if it's in a boxing ring which I think is more dangerous than a cage

Nine
13-01-2013, 11:15 AM
That's a shot idea. Wtf. What's the issue with the cage, it's got chicken wire and it's too padded?

JimmyR
13-01-2013, 11:32 AM
It's just ignorance. "Cage fighting" sounds bad, so let's ban it. But they can do exactly the same thing in a boxing ring because that's been done for ages. Laws being made by people who don't understand or care enough to learn. What a great system!

GUE57
13-01-2013, 11:55 AM
Wow that's BS, I don't even like cage fighting but it's amazing that they can ban a sport that a lot of people do just like that, because they fucking feel like it. It's not like the two people are forced in the cage, they both want to do it. Freedom is getting pretty undervalued these days huh?

smoothpierre
13-01-2013, 12:00 PM
My son and a lot of my friends are professional cage fighters and most have moved away from WA, as most MMA fights here are held in a boxing ring anyway!
Any chance of a UFC fight being held in Perth has just been killed off!
Once again people who have no idea about the sport are allowed to make decisions that effect dedicated fighters and take away their lively hood, forcing them to move away from family and friends to pursue a career in their chosen sport!
Maybe we should ban players from making contact with other players when playing football! as they have more injuries.
The truth is Ballet dancers get a lot of injuries, about the same as football players. Lets see them try banning that!

shan
13-01-2013, 12:01 PM
It's just ignorance. "Cage fighting" sounds bad, so let's ban it. But they can do exactly the same thing in a boxing ring because that's been done for ages. Laws being made by people who don't understand or care enough to learn. What a great system!
Boxing is worse IMO
In a cage fight as soon as you are not defending yourself, game over.
Boxing you get 10 seconds to recoupe, thats the bigest differance,

Nine
13-01-2013, 12:02 PM
Most mma gyms in Perth have their own cages so I'm assuming there will be more gym based matches after march. Call it sparring.

xphread
13-01-2013, 12:09 PM
Activists have called for free-range matches only.

Sventek
13-01-2013, 12:15 PM
This is what happens when the general population is apathetic and allows the politicians to rule rather than govern in their best interests. It's the fault of all of us, as soon as we started to accept the reversal of the burden of proof, mandatory sentencing, and the right of the state to arbitrarily confiscate the property of the citizens. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.

crowtribe
13-01-2013, 01:45 PM
It's not banned, people are misreading this.

It just says it can't be in a 'cage' (a la the octagon from UFC and Strikeforce). But, PRIDE and Dream (Japanese-based MMA competitions and events) are all fought in boxing rings.

That said, cages are still safer in my opinion.

Desmo
13-01-2013, 02:11 PM
Well, they have banned the use of a cage, ergo, it is no longer cage fighting.

deeman111
13-01-2013, 02:18 PM
Cant they just call it "temporary fencing fighting"

Phildo
13-01-2013, 03:19 PM
Marketing issue.

Market the cage as a protective safety item.

It prevents items and projectiles from outside the fighting area from entering the fighting area.

So, it minimises the threat of something throwing something harmful, such as a bottle or paper aeroplane.

The greenies and hippies should be into it as well, as it prevents innocent wildlife from entering a dangerous area. The last thing that anyone wants is a random seagull of pigeon to fly into the fighting area at the wrong time.

agrid
13-01-2013, 03:24 PM
I'm about as likely to watch a cage fight as I am a dog fight.

Drasius
13-01-2013, 03:58 PM
I'm about as likely to watch a cage fight as I am a dog fight.

I also think 'tis a particularly silly "sport", but they're only hurting themselves, it's really not anyone elses business is it? What if some random decided to ban murdercycles? We don't harm anyone else either, but the whole random banning is not cool.

thro
13-01-2013, 04:03 PM
I'll quote this from some unknown source


"Every time somebody says 'there should be a law' - there probably shouldn't"

filbert
13-01-2013, 04:33 PM
Marketing issue.

Market the cage as a protective safety item.

It prevents items and projectiles from outside the fighting area from entering the fighting area.

So, it minimises the threat of something throwing something harmful, such as a bottle or paper aeroplane.

The greenies and hippies should be into it as well, as it prevents innocent wildlife from entering a dangerous area. The last thing that anyone wants is a random seagull of pigeon to fly into the fighting area at the wrong time.

it also prevent serious injuries if someone falls out of the ring while they're rolling around cuddling and whispering in each others ears

JimmyR
13-01-2013, 04:44 PM
I agree with Shan - MMA is generally safer than Boxing because you don't get the repeated concussions that you do in boxing. In boxing you can get knocked out briefly, get a count and continue. That's where the head trauma problems start. In MMA, as soon as a fighter is in trouble the match is over. At least in a well refereed match this is the case. And Filbert is correct in the cage being safer than the ring. It's ignorance about the sport that is making up silly rules.

Funny thing is that I only watch UFC because my wife loves it. So many times I'll meet guys who say "I would love to watch UFC but my wife won't have it on the telly!" So when I tell them that Friday night is often "beer and UFC night" in our house - because my wife says so - they seem to get really pissed off...

ranmar850
13-01-2013, 05:39 PM
I'd much rather see it die out due to an outbreak of general good taste amongst the public, but can't see that happening any time soon. Lowest common denominator, and all that.

66
13-01-2013, 05:45 PM
I am amazed that two consenting adults can be banned from performing any act that does not cause harm to any external party.

mekon
13-01-2013, 07:22 PM
Shame the new stadium would have been a great draw card for a UFC major event.

Desmo
13-01-2013, 07:27 PM
I am amazed that two consenting adults can be banned from performing any act that does not cause harm to any external party.

You mean like taking drugs, right?

66
13-01-2013, 07:57 PM
nice try...

Desmo
13-01-2013, 07:59 PM
nice try...

Seriously, tell me how your statement doesn't apply to drugs?
You are always one for hard line stances and absolute statements so I'd like to know how it doesn't apply.

66
13-01-2013, 08:08 PM
i havent heard of many (well personally any except the famous 'cross dressing' guys handing out a well deserved beat down) fighters being involved in incidents outside of there respective disiplines.

drug users however.

yes, if it could be contained to households, with no effect to the outside world... but, that's not very likely is it?

Flyboy
13-01-2013, 08:14 PM
Never really been interested in watching two people belt the crap out of each other in a cage, but I agree that the proposed law is balls.

Having never really watched UFC or its derivatives, I can only speculate that the sanctioned events are well organised, controlled, and more importantly enjoyed by many. Why the hell would you want to legislate that to an underground movement? I'm guessing the mindset behind it is 'if we stop blood sports, we'll make society a bunch of happy, flower kissing muppets'?

Desmo
13-01-2013, 08:17 PM
@96, I'm not trying to start a fight or pick on you, I'm just trying to ascertain the robustness of your integrity and convictions.
I believe that me walking to my best mates house on a Friday night, having a few beers and joints, chowing down on some homemade biltong and sharing a laugh and chat about our work week hurts not one single person. In fact, I maintain that this is actually a positive experience that does much more good not just for me, but for my interactions with my family as I find it extremely relaxing and social.
You have stated previously that you hate drugs yet you have just stated that you believe that adults should be able to do anything they like as long as it doesn't adversely affect a third party. I'm just having issues quantifying what you are saying.
So what is it you mean exactly?
It could also be argued that the very act of watching a fight could raise testosterone levels and ergo cause a higher state of aggravation and aggression. I know for a fact that when I was working in pubs, I usually asked to be rostered off if there was a boxing match on as I didn't want to be involved in the resultant aftermath.
Perhaps those sitting in the comfort of their loungerooms watching the fight would act differently; if it could be contained to households, with no effect to the outside world... but, that's not very likely is it?

66
13-01-2013, 08:28 PM
It could also be argued that the very act of watching a fight could raise testosterone levels and ergo cause a higher state of aggravation and aggression. I know for a fact that when I was working in pubs, I usually asked to be rostered off if there was a boxing match on as I didn't want to be involved in the resultant aftermath.
Perhaps those sitting in the comfort of their loungerooms watching the fight would act differently; if it could be contained to households, with no effect to the outside world... but, that's not very likely is it?

That's actually a very good point, Jim.
Perhaps it is part of the reason behind the ban?


if you can enjoy your once a week joints with mates, with no adverse effects, go for it. this isnt sarcasm, i mean that.I would say you would be the exception to the rule though.

i dont have a problem with people using substances to get a kick, i truley dont, it is the secondary effects often associated with this that becomes a problem, and thats where i reverse my oppinion on the activity being undertaken in the first place. but as you say, the same could be said for the fighting. the difference to me however, is it isnt the two consenting adults belting the shit out of each other, that are then having effects on society. if you locked them in a room and let them belt each other, they'd shake hands at the end, and be done with it.

Maxo
13-01-2013, 08:37 PM
yes, if it could be contained to households, with no effect to the outside world... but, that's not very likely is it?

Here we go again...

Fighters do get involved in incidents outside of the gym. Bad eggs in every batch.

If you control substances rather than ban them, then yes, you're probably going to end up with more people doing it in their house and not providing provocative types with cash or a means to front an illegal business. You're also going to be able to control what goes in them. Yes, you're going to get bad eggs, but you're also going to be taking money away from lots of them.

Again, alcohol is by far the worst, most abused and problematic psychoactive substance that people have to deal with outside of their own home.


Never really been interested in watching two people belt the crap out of each other in a cage, but I agree that the proposed law is balls.

Having never really watched UFC or its derivatives, I can only speculate that the sanctioned events are well organised, controlled, and more importantly enjoyed by many. Why the hell would you want to legislate that to an underground movement? I'm guessing the mindset behind it is 'if we stop blood sports, we'll make society a bunch of happy, flower kissing muppets'?

I think this is a very important point. I've got no idea why it's been banned, but i can almost guarantee it's because Joe Public hears cage fighting and thinks: 'fight to the death'.
I've brought plenty of friends to events, shown them fight cards and quite alot of the time i have to sit through them shouting at the screen "what the fuck are these two actually doing, why don't they fight, this is fucking boring". The lowest common denominator makes up a proportion of mma fans(tough guy appeal probably, who cares), but there's plenty of well educated people that are bigger fans.

Boxing is far more Neanderthal than MMA.

Phildo
13-01-2013, 08:42 PM
Marketing issue.

Market the cage as a protective safety item.

It prevents items and projectiles from outside the fighting area from entering the fighting area.

So, it minimises the threat of something throwing something harmful, such as a bottle or paper aeroplane.

The greenies and hippies should be into it as well, as it prevents innocent wildlife from entering a dangerous area. The last thing that anyone wants is a random seagull of pigeon to fly into the fighting area at the wrong time.

it also prevent serious injuries if someone falls out of the ring while they're rolling around cuddling and whispering in each others ears
Good point - the cage also keeps the homosexuals from running up and trying to kiss the fighters when they're working.

Skut
13-01-2013, 11:10 PM
Personally, I always preferred the Pride fights to the UFC (which bought out Pride and shelved it I believe?). UFC "cage" fights introduced a kind of back-woods redneck element to the fighting arts, and as MMA has developed as a sport (I have been watching it's "evolution" for quite a while) it has become more a product of it's venue than an effective fighting style or sport, and I guess money is part of that as well (ala pro boxing).

Cbr1k
13-01-2013, 11:42 PM
Don't worry next they'll ban motorcycle racing because it is dangerous.

=Maz=
14-01-2013, 01:24 PM
Pride was all about MMA in a ring rather than a cage.

Fuck this Nanny-State, too-old-to-want-change poli-fucks!!
Born and Bred in WA but fuck me I am struggling to recognise the place. :(

mekon
14-01-2013, 01:28 PM
We need to be less complacent, less relying on others to voice our opinions. Those French seem to know a thing or two about resistance. They recently got their hi-vis fluro laws put on hold after 100,000 bikers rolled on Paris. Better than Hitler's efforts.

66
14-01-2013, 01:58 PM
And an estimated million just protested gay marriage over the weekend.

There is something to be said about strength in numbers

Commander Keen
14-01-2013, 02:04 PM
Damn.. I just got my Tapout shirts on sale as well.

Maxo
14-01-2013, 02:36 PM
Personally, I always preferred the Pride fights to the UFC (which bought out Pride and shelved it I believe?). UFC "cage" fights introduced a kind of back-woods redneck element to the fighting arts, and as MMA has developed as a sport (I have been watching it's "evolution" for quite a while) it has become more a product of it's venue than an effective fighting style or sport, and I guess money is part of that as well (ala pro boxing).

MMA has evolved exponentially in the past decade and i'd put that solely down to the UFC and the Fertitas. Pride was interesting, but there was apparently a fair amount of shenanigans behind the scenes.

Cage fighting is only marketable to an extent. It's a hooky tagline, but the back-woods redneck element is only introduced via the crowds.
You'll hear them booing in boredom 4 fights out of 6 on every main card because people aren't "slugging it out".

Ofcourse Zuffa decided to capitalise on the LCD by introducing TUF to the mix, which gives Joe Dumbass some dramatic WWF reality 'behind the scenes' junk to watch, but that's a completely different issue to the cage.

ranmar850
14-01-2013, 04:10 PM
I am amazed that two consenting adults can be banned from performing any act that does not cause harm to any external party.
Under that definition, all for it if it involves non-violent public sexual congress between a male and female. (or two females, you get my drift ;)) Why can we have outright, bloody violence, people beaten unconscious, and not sex? Why can Hollywood depict the most graphic violence/torture, and yet be very careful about the odd bare tit? I've never been able to work that one out. Is a stiff prick or wet labia more offensive than a hard and bloody fist/knee/elbow? Comments please.

Maxo
14-01-2013, 05:08 PM
Under that definition, all for it if it involves non-violent public sexual congress between a male and female. (or two females, you get my drift ;)) Why can we have outright, bloody violence, people beaten unconscious, and not sex? Why can Hollywood depict the most graphic violence/torture, and yet be very careful about the odd bare tit? I've never been able to work that one out. Is a stiff prick or wet labia more offensive than a hard and bloody fist/knee/elbow? Comments please.

wait


I'd much rather see it die out due to an outbreak of general good taste amongst the public, but can't see that happening any time soon. Lowest common denominator, and all that.

Just like porn, right? I mean they're both animalistic and suffer from some sort of social taboo. Both attract the lowest common denominator, no?

You've answered your own question. It's taboo because the insecure people ranting, pissing and moaning about it being something that only idiots or immoral people would find exciting, are complete hypocrites and don't understand what they're saying.

ranmar850
15-01-2013, 08:59 AM
wait



Just like porn, right? I mean they're both animalistic and suffer from some sort of social taboo. Both attract the lowest common denominator, no?

You've answered your own question. It's taboo because the insecure people ranting, pissing and moaning about it being something that only idiots or immoral people would find exciting, are complete hypocrites and don't understand what they're saying.

Well, then you could maybe get into the argument over porn vs erotica, and peoples definition of same. (Erotica uses a feather, porn uses the whole chicken, etc) Could this then be extended to the argument of olympic style boxing at one end, with headgear, short fights, mostly decided on points, vs cage fighting at the other end, seem to be able to do pretty well anything short of biting an opponents appendage off. And you seem to calling me insecure for not "understanding it".? FFS, if you cannot see how spectacles of this kind lowers society as a whole, you, too , have sunk down. IMO, it is insecure to need to watch this sort of thing as an affirmation of your "manhood", if that is what you get from it. Do you get off on apocalypse type scenarios, preppers, and even pissweak simulations like Survivor? I hope not, I had thought more of you from random previous posts.
If you want to flame away over this, do so, I have said all I want to on this. Opinion given.

Maxo
15-01-2013, 09:45 AM
cage fighting at the other end, seem to be able to do pretty well anything short of biting an opponents appendage off. And you seem to calling me insecure for not "understanding it".

You've got no idea what you're talking about. I'm not going to explain the rules of the UFC to you (as an example), but if you're knocked down and can't intelligently defend yourself, you're not giving 9 seconds to switch back on from your concussion and get back up.


If you want to flame away over this, do so, I have said all I want to on this

and it was ill thought out garbage. well done.

Uncle Stinky
15-01-2013, 10:04 AM
Bit of research goes along way...


Unified Rules of MMA


Fouls

As set out by the Association of Boxing Commissions:[6]
Holding or grabbing the fence
Holding opponentís shorts or gloves
Butting with the head
Biting or spitting at an opponent
Hair pulling
Fish-hooking
Intentionally placing a finger into any orifice, or into any cut or laceration of your opponent
Eye gouging of any kind
Groin attacks of any kind
Downward pointing of elbow strikes (see Elbow strike)
Small joint manipulation
Strikes to the spine or back of the head (see Rabbit punch)
Heel kicks to the kidney
Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea
Clawing, pinching, twisting the flesh or grabbing the clavicle
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent
Stomping of a grounded fighter
The use of abusive language in fighting area
Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent
Attacking an opponent during a break
Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee
Timidity (avoiding contact, consistent dropping of mouthpiece, or faking an injury)
Interference from a mixed martial artist's cornerman
Throwing an opponent out of the ring or caged area
Flagrant disregard of the refereeís instructions
Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck (see Piledriver)
Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat

When a foul is charged, the referee in their discretion may deduct one or more points as a penalty. If a foul incapacitates a fighter, then the match may end in a disqualification if the foul was intentional, or a "no contest" if unintentional. If a foul causes a fighter to be unable to continue later in the bout, it ends with a technical decision win to the injured fighter if the injured fighter is ahead on points, otherwise it is a technical draw.

[edit] Medical Requirements
Contestants shall complete all pre-licensure medical examinations and tests required by the jurisdiction licensing the contest.
The jurisdiction licensing the contest shall conduct or supervise all pre-contest weigh-ins and may hold or supervise a rules meeting for all contestants and their cornermen.
Post-Contest medical examination. Immediately following a contest, each contestant shall be given a medical examination by a physician appointed by the commission. The medical examination may include any examinations or tests the commission deems necessary to determine the post-contest physical fitness of a contestant.
Any contestant who refuses to submit to a post-contest medical examination shall be immediately suspended for an indefinite period

mekon
15-01-2013, 07:35 PM
I believe apart from knock outs, there's more damage done over time from boxing due to the number of rounds and the count. Many fighter in boxing get up too quickly continue the fight whilst concussed and suffer as a result. 90% of fighters in boxing retire with a brain injury at levels above non participants.
The other thing being the ability to continually land more head punches in boxing because of more padding in the glove as opposed to MMA style gloves giving the punching party more chance to hit again and again when they get an opening.

I honestly think UFC and most MMA fighting is cleaner, safer than people believe. I think the image of poor sportsmanship style fights blurs from news footage of fuckwits in 1 size too small UFC, TapOut t shirts or Ed Hardy wearing pissheads punching on, king hitting or attacking people in Northbridge for example or domestic situations of fighters in anysport Robin Givens Vs Mike Tyson, Chris Benoit Vs His whole family. I enjoy both sports and believe MMA is much more intelligent and skilled, but I'm all Roman about it and enjoy being entertained by a good fight. Preferably a clean one between consenting adults.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Chris_0d6209_386301.jpg

Uncle Stinky
24-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Cage fighting ban is unsafe, says UFC | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/cage-fighting-ban-is-unsafe-says-ufc/story-e6frg13u-1226561092274)

Looks like Old Colin Barnett has cost us any chance of UFC in WA

MADOGA
24-01-2013, 03:28 PM
This is what happens when the general population is apathetic and allows the politicians to rule rather than govern in their best interests. It's the fault of all of us, as soon as we started to accept the reversal of the burden of proof, mandatory sentencing, and the right of the state to arbitrarily confiscate the property of the citizens. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.

+1 Aussies have been apathetic for a long time , and its got worse in recent years, Im sure most of the population has had their spine replaced with jelly, along with a good dose of blindness and ignorance

mute
24-01-2013, 03:52 PM
an interesting statistic i heard was that there were more deaths from boxing since the introduction of gloves as you can punch harder with the protection. time to bring back bare knuckle I think it's safer.