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devolved
16-01-2013, 01:11 PM
If you'd said to young boy me that in the future there would be no Commodore or Falcon, I would not have believed you.

In hindsight, I'm not sure why - I mean by 2013 we would all have had cars like the Jetsons - but still.... To imagine a future without these 2 icons is strange. Telling your kids about a time when every 2nd car was a Kingswood. Explaining why as boys we would spend all afternoon watching a car race around a mountain. So many more things...

Although not a bad thing per se - I do feel a little sentimental about what are essentially icons of Australian motoring.

I guess the Brits would have felt the same when they stopped making the Ford Anglia. :P

End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore in 2016 | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/end-of-the-road-for-ford-falcon-and-holden-commodore-in-2016/story-fnda1bsz-1226554833139)

Will this be the end of Australian motoring manufacturing.

shan
16-01-2013, 01:14 PM
Toyota going strong

thro
16-01-2013, 01:18 PM
poppycock


they'd be insane to kill off the ute (the tax-minimizing man's 2 door sports car), which i'm sure will still be available with whatever the current corvette motor is from the states for years to come.


Also, pretty sure holden have fully electric commodore prototypes doing road testing over east....

Rich...
16-01-2013, 01:19 PM
No it won't be the end of Australian motor manufacturering...

Do you realise we used to, and probably still export a large number of motors...

I was at the Holden engine factory in Melbourne back in '89 and watched finished and dyno'd 4 cylinder engines coming off the line every 45 seconds...

Every one of those was destined to be exported...

BOFH
16-01-2013, 01:37 PM
I don't understand the lack of a diesel or hybrid option in a Commodore or Falcon, surely that would inject some interest & viability back into the brands.

n8balls
16-01-2013, 01:38 PM
I’m going to miss the falcon taxis

Something about the massive leg room, the whining diff and squeaky brakes that is quite reassuring at the end of a boozy night

devolved
16-01-2013, 01:43 PM
No it won't be the end of Australian motor manufacturering...

Do you realise we used to, and probably still export a large number of motors...

I was at the Holden engine factory in Melbourne back in '89 and watched finished and dyno'd 4 cylinder engines coming off the line every 45 seconds...

Every one of those was destined to be exported...

The 'Family 2' I think it was called - was an awesome motor.

GM Family II engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine#Holden)

Rich...
16-01-2013, 01:46 PM
Yep, that will be the one...

Barfridge
16-01-2013, 02:01 PM
The local car industry are a lot like North Korea. Every so often they make proclamations of armageddon, until they get thrown some money, then they shut up again for a while.

I guess it's that time again.

devolved
16-01-2013, 02:04 PM
I think we should stick to what we're good at - making submarines!

http://nicholsoncartoons.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2009-10-21-Collins-Class-submarines-engine-trouble-600.jpg

Heretic
16-01-2013, 02:16 PM
poppycock


they'd be insane to kill off the ute (the tax-minimizing man's 2 door sports car), which i'm sure will still be available with whatever the current corvette motor is from the states for years to come.


Also, pretty sure holden have fully electric commodore prototypes doing road testing over east....

i dunno thro



Toyota HiLux – 37,526
Nissan Navara – 23,354
Mitsubishi Triton – 17,307
Ford Ranger – 16,459
Holden Colorado – 11,546
Mazda BT-50 – 10,946
Holden Utility – 7365
Toyota LandCruiser – 7315
Great Wall V200/V240 – 7081
Isuzu D-Max – 7066


bye bye Holden ute

soon all the bogans will be rockin fully sick Great Walls

filbert
16-01-2013, 02:18 PM
No it won't be the end of Australian motor manufacturering...

Do you realise we used to, and probably still export a large number of motors...

I was at the Holden engine factory in Melbourne back in '89 and watched finished and dyno'd 4 cylinder engines coming off the line every 45 seconds...

Every one of those was destined to be exported...

the camira engine? it ended up in anything and everything, most notably shitty daewoos.

B0RDEX
16-01-2013, 02:23 PM
As a side note I'm not liking the look of what I've seen of the VF so far...

Scott52
16-01-2013, 02:33 PM
So if you bought a new XR6 Turbo or Commodore SS in 2016 and put them on blocks in a storage shed somewhere will they be worth a lot of money 10 or 20 years later?

thro
16-01-2013, 02:37 PM
So if you bought a new XR6 Turbo or Commodore SS in 2016 and put them on blocks in a storage shed somewhere will they be worth a lot of money 10 or 20 years later?


Possibly. Possibly nothing, due to us running out of oil or having to pay insane amounts of tax to run them...

devolved
16-01-2013, 03:04 PM
the camira engine? it ended up in anything and everything, most notably shitty daewoos.

Was a great engine though - I had a JE Camira for a while and it hammered & used F-All fuel... Only a slight design flaw that meant they cooked far too frequently...

I would be collecting a Commodore and shedding it if you had the cash. You could always use one of those 'garbage/energy' things from Back to the future in 2030 instead of oil, probably.

Gippo
16-01-2013, 03:19 PM
I miss benchseats, good for so many things.

Roger Explosion
16-01-2013, 03:35 PM
Vf dunnydoor is going to be sold stateside as a chevy ss. It will also be the badge getting slapped on the side of next years nascar racer. Diesal and hybrid versions are pretty much a given so altough local sales will continue to shrink, itsmore than safe for now due to exports.

Ryven
16-01-2013, 03:39 PM
So if you bought a new XR6 Turbo or Commodore SS in 2016 and put them on blocks in a storage shed somewhere will they be worth a lot of money 10 or 20 years later?

I can think of better ways to invest $50k over 20 years that are less prone to rust... But if you're a gambling man, why not?

TurboR1
16-01-2013, 03:43 PM
If you'd said to young boy me that in the future there would be no Commodore or Falcon,

This can only be a good thing...

Next to go hopefully will be Flanno, Jim Beam, Mullets, stubby shorts and double pluggers.

thro
16-01-2013, 03:47 PM
I guess we could end up with a better class of 135i and M3 driving bogan instead.

Cbr1k
16-01-2013, 04:06 PM
Maybe Ford & Holden would be more competitive if they sold more modern engines.

jules_1972
16-01-2013, 04:07 PM
Ford 4.0L is no oldie dude.

Commander Keen
16-01-2013, 04:13 PM
Ford 4.0L is no oldie dude.

Grandpa's axe got a new handle last year too!

shan
16-01-2013, 04:25 PM
This can only be a good thing...

Next to go hopefully will be Flanno, Jim Beam, Mullets, stubby shorts and double pluggers.
Fuckenell
First you want me to do a spelling test
Now everything I am you want gone , are you sure you went to a Rockingham school

filbert
16-01-2013, 04:30 PM
Fuckenell
First you want me to do a spelling test
Now everything I am you want gone , are you sure you went to a Rockingham school

and they stole his lunch money every day :lol:

Rich...
16-01-2013, 04:31 PM
Now everything I am you want gone
Mullet?

shan
16-01-2013, 04:34 PM
Yep that went years ago, i be bald

Rich...
16-01-2013, 04:36 PM
Yep that went years ago, i be bald
Hence my ?

Tiger1
16-01-2013, 04:50 PM
The problem with both the Commodore and Falcon is poor local sales, lack of exports and adhering to a vehicle type which has little relevance to todays car market.

The Commodore had a strong export in the Middle East but that has virtually disappeared due to the Aussie dollar, the Pontiac G8/6 had potential until GM went bust and killed Pontiac,
The PPV police car based on the Statesman looked to be a saviour for Holden but they have only sold about 4000 in eighteen months a tiny percentage of the 90 000 cop cars sold in the US per year. The VF Commodore will be sold in the States as a Chevrolet SS but GM has already admitted that they don't expect to them in large numbers due to the expected high price. The Falcon has virtually no meaningful export markets apart from NZ.

There was a strong hope that the Falcon would be piggybacked onto the 2014 Mustang platform but poor local sales and the "One Ford" stradegy have killed that idea unless Ford is planning to sell it into the US market. There is some justification for that concept because the 2014 Mustang will be built in RHD, features IRS and will have the same Ecoboost four cylinder the Falcon already has.
The fact that Ford recently purchased the remaining 49% of FPV for 20 million dollars would indicate they might see a future for the Falcon despite poor local sales.

B0RDEX
16-01-2013, 04:58 PM
This can only be a good thing...

Next to go hopefully will be Beam, Mullets, stubby shorts

Fixed that for you.

Captain Starfish
16-01-2013, 05:22 PM
This can only be a good thing...

Next to go hopefully will be Flanno, Jim Beam, Mullets, stubby shorts and double pluggers.

Fuck off 'fore I glass you cunt

TurboR1
16-01-2013, 05:33 PM
The problem with both the Commodore and Falcon is poor local sales useless pieces of shit.

Fixed


Fuck off 'fore I glass you cunt

You can keep your colourful knitwear.

98kellrs
16-01-2013, 06:35 PM
If they actually made decent looking cars perhaps someone would buy one. Last few have been fark ugly!

Drasius
16-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Bugger the aussie 6, I will be mighty sad that the last bastion of affordable V8's has dried up. I fervently hope that there is one final power war before they go out as a last hurrah. The idea of having to go from paying ~50k for an SS or XR8 with most of the boxes ticked to ~160k for an M3 (though that's meant to be going back to a 6 IIRC) makes me very sad.

jules_1972
16-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Grandpa's axe got a new handle last year too!

He still burns wood?

keys
16-01-2013, 06:59 PM
Cars who cares , Just build me a Britton bike thanks

thro
16-01-2013, 07:22 PM
Maybe Ford & Holden would be more competitive if they sold more modern engines.

The gen4 is a pretty modern and advanced engine (DoD, high specific output for such a torquey motor), despite the use of pushrods.

The current v6 alloytec motors are pretty advanced (constantly variable VVT)? The ford 4L motor has a decent head on it (also VVT), and the v8 is 32 valve DOHC?

Engine block design hasn't changed THAT drastically....


I suspect a big part of the problem is that people simply don't want full size cars as much any more. Fuel cost, parking space, etc... trying to sell a commodore for a competitive price with our labour costs at the moment is likely pretty fucking difficult, too.

Skut
16-01-2013, 07:42 PM
Haha, does anyone remember the old "Starfire" four from Holden? Possibly the most misnamed engine in modern history (and they threw it into Toyotas of the era to make up "local content"). The Family 2 engine was probably the best thing to be produced here at a time where everyone had to love the BIG six as a family car.

I see it as the dinosaur finally rolling over to the realisation that it has become extinct, it's just that the tail was still twitching for a long time afterwards.

Spina
16-01-2013, 08:02 PM
A six is only a real six if its inline or boxer. And not built in AU (no not falcon) Ford needs cubes to be competitve with world market sixes, 2013=fail.

Roger Explosion
16-01-2013, 08:06 PM
Bugger the aussie 6, I will be mighty sad that the last bastion of affordable V8's has dried up. I fervently hope that there is one final power war before they go out as a last hurrah. The idea of having to go from paying ~50k for an SS or XR8 with most of the boxes ticked to ~160k for an M3 (though that's meant to be going back to a 6 IIRC) makes me very sad.

New 'vette was just revealed, showing what will be powering the VF Commodore. Base version puts out 450 Hp, weighs less than most six's and has all the usual current fuel saving stuff. Best of all, they've hooked it up to a 7 speed (proper) manual. Thanks to cheap fuel in the US, obnoxious over powered V8's will be with us for some time to come.
:)

Captain Starfish
16-01-2013, 08:39 PM
Haha, does anyone remember the old "misfire" four from Holden? Possibly the most misnamed engine in modern history (and they threw it into Toyotas of the era to make up "local content"). The Family 2 engine was probably the best thing to be produced here at a time where everyone had to love the BIG six as a family car.

I see it as the dinosaur finally rolling over to the realisation that it has become extinct, it's just that the tail was still twitching for a long time afterwards.

Fixed for you. My ex-wife's first car, some kinda corona wagon, had one. Fucking thing...

Spina
16-01-2013, 08:45 PM
Maybe the toyota lexen will become a icon finally. Thats quality motoring I tells ya!

Scott52
16-01-2013, 08:55 PM
I was a Ford man from the early 90's right up to 2010. I had a string of new Falcons as work cars and the last two were XR6 Turbo's. The last one being the BF Series II Turbo with the 6 speed auto with LSD as standard. That was a great car and very good bang for your buck.

In their marketing questionaires that you get a few months after the getting the car they always asked questions about what car you may buy in the future. I stated 10 years ago that I was hoping that in the future they'd release a smaller Falcon or release a modern version of the "Ford Capri" as I'd soon be looking for a smaller rear wheel drive sporty sedan as the Falcon was getting too big for a Baby Boomer couple who's kids had grown up. I also said if they only had front wheel drive medium size cars I wouldn't buy one because I can't stand them and prefer to have the rear legs pushing me along not being dragged along by the front. A rear wheel drive Mondeo would be good. I reckon both Ford and GMH have misread the market and are now paying the price. The demographics are playing their hand again. The average age of the population is getting older and they don't need the full size "family sedan".

If they import a larger Yank car most of them are front wheel drive these days so that will be a disaster.

Skut
16-01-2013, 09:15 PM
I was hoping that in the future they'd release a smaller Falcon or release a modern version of the "Ford Capri" as I'd soon be looking for a smaller rear wheel drive sporty sedan


This is what Subaru/Toyota have done. Gawd, remember what Ford Australia produced as a "Capri" ?

Scott52
16-01-2013, 09:22 PM
This is what Subaru/Toyota have done. Gawd, remember what Ford Australia produced as a "Capri" ?

Yes I sure do ... it was a crappy car by todays standards but it had a 3.0 litre V6 from memory, rear wheel drive, was about the size of the LH Torana and seemed to be as a fast as an F111 in its day.

I also remember a few years ago GMH releasing a concept car being a new modern version of the Torana and that looked the goods. Rear drive, medium size, sporty with a decent V6. It generated heaps of interest and excitement but they did nothing with the idea. I reckon it would be a seller.

devolved
16-01-2013, 10:39 PM
This is what Subaru/Toyota have done. Gawd, remember what Ford Australia produced as a "Capri" ?

The old Ford Capri (not the shit 90's one) - was my dream car...

http://www.motorstown.com/images/ford-capri-iii-06.jpg

Skut
16-01-2013, 10:50 PM
The old Ford Capri (not the shit 90's one) - was my dream car...

http://www.motorstown.com/images/ford-capri-iii-06.jpg

No, no, NO!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2J53MELKA

devolved
16-01-2013, 11:17 PM
No, no, NO!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2J53MELKA

You know I wanted to drive it through some sort of giant office window,

:)

filbert
17-01-2013, 12:05 AM
This is what Subaru/Toyota have done. Gawd, remember what Ford Australia produced as a "Capri" ?

4 cylinder front wheel drive on a Mazda MX5 floorpan IIRC

and the better Capri was definitely not without it's flaws but went well with a Windsor v8 shoehorned in in place of the German v6

Drasius
17-01-2013, 06:54 AM
New 'vette was just revealed, showing what will be powering the VF Commodore. Base version puts out 450 Hp, weighs less than most six's and has all the usual current fuel saving stuff. Best of all, they've hooked it up to a 7 speed (proper) manual. Thanks to cheap fuel in the US, obnoxious over powered V8's will be with us for some time to come.
:)

You missed the part about it being affordable. IF they allow us to buy US cars for non outrageous prices (US corvette base model price is ~ 60k, Here in Aus ~180k), I'd be all over a corvette like TurboR1 on a hot 16 year old. I can't see that happening though, so I'll be forced to spend silly amounts of money should I want to replace my current V8. That makes me sad.

Would I like to see that motor in the HSV lineup and the LS2 transplanted into the SS range like it has been speculated on many a forum? You better believe it, but it will certainly be interesting times if they bring out the torana concept in 3 flavours; Base 6, turbo 6 and V8. I would not be tooooooo sad about losing the V8 commy then. Ford however, is totally boned on the performance side of things excepting the focus. The taurus will be an epic fail, just like it was last time. The Turbo 6 was an absolute cracker, and their new charged 8 certainly puts out more than enough power.

TurboR1
17-01-2013, 10:42 AM
I'd like to see every single car being a 1.6 or 1.4 turbo diesel... in manual... with all modification strictly prohibited and enforced. Once everyone is in these things we can go about the business of riding our bikes and enjoying them without cocksmoker 1 in his shitbox VNSS and knobgobbler 1 in his XR8 wanting to have a go.

With a bit of luck the majority of mouth breathing car drivers will just give up and use public transport so the roads could be emptier for our bikes too.

Bowlen
17-01-2013, 10:49 AM
I drive a 1.8L car so I am not really fussed at the moment, but for a family car, I would want something that has a little more grunt than a 4cyl (and certainly not an 8).
I think there should always be a 6cyl version of a sedan (rear wheel drive) available.

GIXXEN
17-01-2013, 10:58 AM
I brought my FG F6.

3 Days before FPV closed the doors.

n8balls
17-01-2013, 11:06 AM
The V6 Capri had the same quality as the 6cyl Cortina - zero handling

The newish ford i6 is a fantastic motor, change the oil and filters as required and that's it. The cam chain replacement interval is... infinity!

Roger Explosion
17-01-2013, 11:49 AM
Would I like to see that motor in the HSV lineup and the LS2 transplanted into the SS range like it has been speculated on many a forum? You better believe it

I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the new Lt1 V8 will be the new GM standard accross the range (with various displacement options) and the LS2 being put out to pasture. Emissions regs these days generally see motors flat out replaced, as opposed to the old trickle down the range effect.

thro
17-01-2013, 11:57 AM
I drive a 1.8L car so I am not really fussed at the moment, but for a family car, I would want something that has a little more grunt than a 4cyl (and certainly not an 8).
I think there should always be a 6cyl version of a sedan (rear wheel drive) available.

They should just make smaller inline 6s.

Inline 6 = inherently balanced and far, far smoother than a 4 pot.

But.... cost....


Toyota: put an emissions friendly ECU and cylinder head on your 2JZ.

Cheers.


Actually sounds like what you want is something like a BMW 320i or larger (520d?). The options are out there, they just cost a bit more. OK, a lot more...

devolved
17-01-2013, 12:07 PM
There is nothing like the smoothness of a straight 6 - except maybe the rotary.

Mazda flirted with V6 engines down to 1.8 in the 90's (In the Eunos I think) - and they were okay.

The 2.5 litre I had in my Telsta revved freely - but just sounded like it was working too hard and wasn't much zippier than the 2.o 4 pot.

I'm with thro - develop a small capacity, straight 6. Surely Australia should be the 6 cylinder experts of the world?

Morgs
17-01-2013, 12:28 PM
Ford in Europe saw the writing on the wall a long time ago. Their equivalent of the Falcon, the Granada, was phased out in the mid 90s. Nobody wanted cars that big, especially in the UK where roads are relatively narrow and crowded.

The trend towards smaller vehicles has been around for a while now, and whilst the Asian manufacturers were building rubbish, Ford and Holden could afford to ignore this trend. Just look at what Hyundai are producing in terms of quality and value now, and it makes it hard to go past them.

Also look at how many makes/models are available for sale here now, the market has a lot more choice than there used to be, and Ford and Holden have failed to read the trends properly. This and the poor build reputation have had a massive effect on sales.

Not forgetting the high Aussie dollar, making imports cheaper.

In fairness they have been caught out a bit by the move to SUVs, people seem to be buying more and more of these instead of the family saloon, but they also didn't see that coming either.

Unless things change radically, like the Aussie dollar weakening substantially, wages in manufacturing taking a plunge (yeah, right), it is difficult to see how the likes of Ford and Holden are going to be able to compete in this market.

I used to have a 3.0l Capri many years ago. What a machine that was - (unless you wanted to go around a corner of course - then you needed a couple of bags of cement in the boot). I wouldn't go back to that now, they have made front wheel drive cars so much better now, I no longer hanker for rear wheel drive any more.

Aufitt
17-01-2013, 12:41 PM
We'd buy the big Falcon if they'd listen to the public thats been calling for a Turbo diesel 4cyl for many years.

It would be suited to Aussies, fleets, rural, towing, families, and long distance travel.
And do it all on 7-8l per 100km instead of the 11-14 they do now.

But Ford have a great history of shooting themselves in the foot so fuckem, sales of Imports are just keeping the doors open atmo.

Commander Keen
17-01-2013, 01:03 PM
Five years ago they were ready to shove the 2.7l diesel into the falcon, it went in the territory instead. Go figure.

Bowlen
17-01-2013, 03:19 PM
I guess if they continue to make the Territory, then kbye to the Falcon.

SIKYSA
17-01-2013, 03:38 PM
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/01/16/1226555/299962-cars3.JPG

I love on the graph how Falcon sales plummeted with the AU Falcon.

Fuck that was an ugly, shit car.

devolved
17-01-2013, 04:04 PM
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/01/16/1226555/299962-cars3.JPG

I love on the graph how Falcon sales plummeted with the AU Falcon.

Fuck that was an ugly, shit car.

My work bus is an AU II wagon -

Not attractive, but comfortable, smooth and running on LPG - so pretty cheap to run.

How quickly did Ford change the original AU front-end.... Somebody got smacked for that.

Taylor
17-01-2013, 04:10 PM
What is going to happen to the government car fleets without Commodores and Falcons?

More importantly, what would have happened to Holden and Ford without those deals?

Commander Keen
17-01-2013, 04:10 PM
My work bus is an AU II wagon -

Not attractive, but comfortable, smooth and running on LPG - so pretty cheap to run.

How quickly did Ford change the original AU front-end.... Somebody got smacked for that.

It wasn't all bad, a lot of people opted for the XR6 that was much nicer looking and more expensive.

It's a shame because the current G series are really quite handsome cars but nobody is buying them except for die-hard blue blood baby boomers and taxi companies.

Morgs
17-01-2013, 06:16 PM
What is going to happen to the government car fleets without Commodores and Falcons?

More importantly, what would have happened to Holden and Ford without those deals?
I don't think that the government are buying many Commodores or Falcons as they don't conform to the minimum 'Green Star' rating that now seems to be a requirement.

Have a look around at the local government licence plates out on the road (white on blue, rather than blue on white plates), and see just how many of them are on Hyundais and Subarus, and how few of them are on Fords or Holdens.

I actually think that State and Federal governments should be mandated to buy Australian built cars (while there still are some), unless it is a special purpose vehicle that is not made locally.

shan
17-01-2013, 06:30 PM
toyota Aurion ?

Rich...
17-01-2013, 06:35 PM
They should just make smaller inline 6s.

Inline 6 = inherently balanced and far, far smoother than a 4 pot.

But.... cost....


Toyota: put an emissions friendly ECU and cylinder head on your 2JZ.

Cheers.


Actually sounds like what you want is something like a BMW 320i or larger (520d?). The options are out there, they just cost a bit more. OK, a lot more...
So bring back the RB series engines?

I had a VL with the RB30E, good motor, very smooth, enough power...

thro
17-01-2013, 06:41 PM
We'd buy the big Falcon if they'd listen to the public thats been calling for a Turbo diesel 4cyl for many years.


520d.



So bring back the RB series engines?


I had a VL with the RB30E, good motor, very smooth, enough power...

Yup, the RB would be good too, but again, emissions. Already available in twin cam from the skyline... RB25DE... again... emissions tuning required. But i'm sure they could manage it.

The toyota 2JZ has a stronger bottom end than the RB series though (Supra RZ / Aristo / IS300 motor) for those playing at home who aren't boned up on their engine codes) - 800hp out of them with a big turbo bolted on to stock internals is pretty easy - it's that over-engineered :D


toyota Aurion ?

Front wheel drive.


Aussies do shit like tow boats. Tow caravans. Tow trailers with dirt bikes, etc.

Front wheel drive = blegh.


Sure, front wheel drive for a town car - but if you're buying something that big for big distance and potentially towing shit, you probably want all wheel drive, or rear.

IMHO its a travesty that Mitsubishi don't bring over the legnum or VR4... or Nissan with the Stagea ... or any of a vast array of really cool cars they have there.

Stu
17-01-2013, 09:45 PM
Die Commodore die!

Pity about the Falcon. Coming to an end after more than 50 years! The school yard beyond 2016 won't be the same.

Skut
17-01-2013, 10:15 PM
Question: Has an Australian car manufacturer produced an engine worthy of anything other than cheap spares?
I don't get the parochial love for Australian cars or the industry; because it has always been no less than a decade behind in efficiency, engineering, or cabin comforts. We even changed the rules for our national car race series because our V8s were beaten by 4 cylinder Volvos.

The best we have exported is the Family II, but that was a product of Opel.

Australia punches way over it's weight in many fields (which we rarely hear about because it involves "science" "medicine" and workable "public health" but we are crap for cars.

devolved
17-01-2013, 10:21 PM
Skut - that is harsh.

You are forgetting once piece of Australian motoring that was above all others...

http://encarsglobe.com/data_images/models/leyland-p76/leyland-p76-01.jpg


Having owned one of these (and frequently miss the old girl).

She was an awesome car.

The engine, although adapted from an old Buick engine was 30 years ahead of its time and is still a brilliant example of an alloy small block v8.

thro
17-01-2013, 10:23 PM
Question: Has an Australian car manufacturer produced an engine worthy of anything other than cheap spares?

The alloytec v6 motor is actually pretty good, and exported. or was, i believe Saab was intending to use it amongst others, but they're dead now...

Constantly variable VVT, DOHC v6... 200kw from 3.6L is world class.


My 535i puts out 180kw from 3.5L in 2001, sure... but that is a significantly more expensive v8.... :lol:



edit:
The foulcan was the fastest 4 door in the world back in the 70s from memory.


Bang for buck the commodore and falcon are without competitor. But.... that class of car is going out of fashion. The large rear wheel drive sedan is a dying breed. The enthusiast is going to be increasingly forced into BMWs and Mercs (and really... fuck, this isn't a bad thing - fuck engines, the chassis on the euro cars are only like 100 years ahead).

People either want a shoebox (hatch) or a fucking "SUV" (fuck i hate that term) so they can be all 50 cent and shit.

Fuck those people.


edit:
I really do love BMW. Why? When they bought Mini... they decreed that it would never wear a BMW badge. Why? Because it is front wheel drive (the work of satan!). BMWs are supposed to be rear wheel drive. Except for the X5 and some i-x cars. Gotta admire that level of adhering to principles.

Desmo
17-01-2013, 10:36 PM
The foulcan was the fastest 4 door in the world back in the 70s from memory.

Still beaten in a straight line by the E49. Granted, the Hemi 6 was an evolution of a yank motor but it was an amazing engine for it's time.
It's a pity they didn't win Bathurst due to a stupid mistake, they could have become a lot more if they did.

thro
17-01-2013, 10:42 PM
Isn't that just due to the valiant shedding weight as all the bits fall off it?

Skut
17-01-2013, 10:48 PM
Still beaten in a straight line by the E49. Granted, the Hemi 6 was an evolution of a yank motor but it was an amazing engine for it's time.
It's a pity they didn't win Bathurst due to a stupid mistake, they could have become a lot more if they did.

A bit of controversy about a V8 beaten by a straight 6? Ah, the old Hemi 6-pack ;)

Rich...
17-01-2013, 10:50 PM
But only in a straight line....

thro
17-01-2013, 10:55 PM
A bit of controversy about a V8 beaten by a straight 6? Ah, the old Hemi 6-pack ;)

And then it happened again in the 90s with the GTR straight 6 :lol:

But of course that was slightly after they got their arses handed to them by the turbo 4 pot sierras and the NA 4 pot original M3s :)

66
17-01-2013, 11:00 PM
to be fair those engines did have a slight advantage that is a turbocharger.

as good as these current cars are, they do lack in some aspects.

build wise, i think the holden still has the edge. the FG just has a few known issues. but for a LARGE high powered car at $50k or less, its not bad value.

sadly, the market is changing....

i just hope mazda's next rotary gets here before they get phased out!

thro
17-01-2013, 11:34 PM
M3 engine was NA
BMW S14 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S14)


175kw from 2.5L aspirated 4 pot in 1989 isn't too bad? Road trim... :)

And the turbos had capacity penalties :)


And in the GTR case... very very large weight penalties.

filbert
18-01-2013, 09:00 AM
Question: Has an Australian car manufacturer produced an engine worthy of anything other than cheap spares?
I don't get the parochial love for Australian cars or the industry; because it has always been no less than a decade behind in efficiency, engineering, or cabin comforts. We even changed the rules for our national car race series because our V8s were beaten by 4 cylinder Volvos.

The best we have exported is the Family II, but that was a product of Opel.

Australia punches way over it's weight in many fields (which we rarely hear about because it involves "science" "medicine" and workable "public health" but we are crap for cars.

i thought they were 5 cylinder front wheel drive volvos :lol: