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KillSwitch
26-01-2013, 10:47 AM
Hi guys,

First off, Happy Straya Day / Hottest 100 Day. This has put a dampener on it.

So mrs's Mother has a Nov/2009 Kia Cerato she bought brand new from Kia Dealership and over the last 2 months it has been back to them with a starting problem 5 times! Total time off the road is 23 days. Its getting beyond a joke. They keep saying that don't know what the problem but "this wiggle of the cable" or "replaced a sensor might work. IT DOESN'T With my limited mechanical knowledge I think its the ECU, though they wont replace it unless they know for sure cause its too expensive apparently.

Where can we go from here?

Desmo
26-01-2013, 10:54 AM
Isn't there a lemon clause?

Hagarr
26-01-2013, 10:58 AM
Make a claim against them in the small claims tribunal!

KillSwitch
26-01-2013, 11:09 AM
20th November – Dropped for Service and reported the problem
27th November – Picked up car – crank sensor replaced
6th December – Same problem – Kia Dealership said tow car to them – cost $110.10 – no reimbursement yet
14th December – Picked up car because can’t find a problem – nothing replaced.
20th December – Same problem
22nd December – Crank sensor replaced in case first replacement was faulty
Car not driven frequently over holiday break
8th January – After frequent driving for a few days – same problem
9th January – Dropped off car again
10th January – Hire Car provided
23rd January - Car was returned with 500km put on the odo with maybe fixed.
26th January - Same problem again.
Still no refund for Towing on the 6th December

Rich...
26-01-2013, 11:15 AM
COMPLAINTS CORNER: KIA*CERATO, , ELECTRICAL - COMPLAINTS CORNER.COM (http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/update/display.asp?aid=5619)

Rich...
26-01-2013, 11:17 AM
Also try the Kia forum...

Non starting Kia's seem to be common...

Rick76
26-01-2013, 12:01 PM
Contact Kia Motors Australia.

Phone: 1800 600 010
Phone Hours: Mon – Fri 8:00am – 6:00pm (EST)

Postal Address:
Customer Service
Kia Motors Australia
PO Box 7506
Silverwater NSW 2128

or

Try a different Kia dealer (one of the bigger ones) and give them a history of the issues. They might have someone who is familiar with the same problem or at least have some idea. There is no point going back to the same dealer over and over if you arent happy with them and they can't diagnose/repair it.

DreamTheater
26-01-2013, 01:01 PM
See if there are any specialist mechanics around the area, I doubt there would be for Kia as it isn't really a huge brand that would require it, but some workshops have mechanics that knows cars back to front such as BMW, Holden, Ford etc... Yes you would probably be out of pocket for taking it there but they may be able to diagnose or fix it for you.

darkfibre
26-01-2013, 01:14 PM
How often does it fault? If it does not play up for the dealer and the ECU is not setting a fault code, it can be a bastard to diagnose.
Does it ever stop once its going, or is it a starting fault only?

killswitch54923
26-01-2013, 02:45 PM
Being a mechanic at a dealer myself, you camt jut throw blame at them an say, "replace the ECU!" . They cost extroadinary amounts of money and seein as the dealer is paying for it they need to be sure. If the cars ECU isnt throwing fault codes then its going to be extremely difficult to diagnose. If they cant actually get the car to have the issue whilst its in their possesion what are they supposed to do? It really can be a pain in the dick. All i will say is leave em to it. Its not costing you a thing (warranty) and they give you a loan
car too?

Desmo
26-01-2013, 03:09 PM
what are they supposed to do?

Give them a loan car and let the mechanic use the car for a few weeks.

killswitch54923
26-01-2013, 03:13 PM
Yea well thats what i said. They shouldnt have any issues giving you a loan car if they need the vehicle for an extended period

Dooley
26-01-2013, 03:22 PM
Being a mechanic at a dealer myself, you camt jut throw blame at them an say, "replace the ECU!" . They cost extroadinary amounts of money and seein as the dealer is paying for it they need to be sure. If the cars ECU isnt throwing fault codes then its going to be extremely difficult to diagnose. If they cant actually get the car to have the issue whilst its in their possesion what are they supposed to do? It really can be a pain in the dick. All i will say is leave em to it. Its not costing you a thing (warranty) and they give you a loan
car too?

Yeah to be fair it can be hard especially with intermittent or uncommon faults.

I had an issue with a work van for weeks with the clutch slowly re-engaging with my foot flat to the floor on the pedal but it was really intermittent, might not get it for days and then a few times out of the blue in a matter of hours.

At first they threw a new clutch kit in which helped for a bit, either by coincidence or because of that.

Anyway it came back in the end and it still wouldn't do it whenever they looked at it, so were struggling to diagnose it, just happened to start doing it again as I was driving by the mechanics so pulled in and showed them, they diagnosed a fault with the clutch cylinder and finally sorted it. They said it was a pretty rare fault.

This had gone for over a month or two though as it just wasn't making it easy for them to fault find. Which I'm cool with because it really can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Desmo
26-01-2013, 03:26 PM
they diagnosed a fault with the clutch cylinder and finally sorted it.

If they couldn't diagnose it immediately from your description of the fault, they are fucking useless and I'd never take a vehicle back to them again.
I had it picked by "clutch slowly re-engaging".

Para045
26-01-2013, 04:31 PM
If they couldn't diagnose it immediately from your description of the fault, they are fucking useless and I'd never take a vehicle back to them again.
I had it picked by "clutch slowly re-engaging".

+1 :huh: I had an issue years ago with my 79 F100 where it was constantly blowing fuses for lights and stuff, particularly when reversing! Took it into an auto sparky twice and left it with them for a day each time and nothing :( All they could end up doing was hand me a bunch of fuses and say bring it back if it keeps doing it :o
I took it home and got out my workshop manual and spent some time looking at the wiring diagrams and then pulled off an access cover over the auto box and found a wire that was for the reverse sensor on the box flopping about and obviously it was shorting out, plugged it back in an no more issues :D I have a reasonable mechanical knowledge but my electrical is only basic so I'm wondering whether they actually spent much/any time trying to fault find :mad:

Also had issues with our EL V8 Falcon when we 1st got it second hand but still under warranty where it was pinging constantly and after multiple times taking it back to Nuford and getting told to try hotter (or colder :unsure:) plugs, get a Carbon clean, use BP98 etc etc without getting anywhere :( Ended up finding a small place in Wangara that did some tests thinking it was the ECU and found it wasn't BUT found it was an issue with the Mass AF meter, by that stage it had just gone out of warranty and Nuford basically told us to fuck off as it was over $600 :o
After talking to the guys at the small place they gave us a name of a guy at Lynford who was a bit further up the food chain and after showing them all the documentation showing us repeatedly taking it back and not getting it fixed the offered to replace the part for nothing as long as we paid the labour which ended up around $100, not ideal but at least it solved the issue and shows if you have documentation, emails etc that can make a difference ;) I did toy with pushing Ford for reimbursement for the labour but ended up not bothering as we were just happy with getting it fixed and didn't need the hassles at that time :confused:

filbert
26-01-2013, 04:33 PM
that's called learning from experience Desmo

mechanics these days sweep floors and change oil throughout their apprenticeship, then when they finish the tafe component of their qualification process they're officially mechanics with no actual skill or experience expected to diagnose real world issues.

BOFH
27-01-2013, 03:24 AM
Never, ever take a car to John Hughes for service or repair.

Ken Oath
27-01-2013, 11:21 PM
Never, ever take a car to John Hughes for service or repair.

Care to elaborate???

My big issue with them, is they have a "pretty" customer area, but go there to collect the car, and "....be a few minutes, take a seat, read th epaper, have a cup of coffee...blah, blah....."

After 5 minutes, I go to the desk, "Look, I only came here to collect my car. I did not come here to read the paper, and if I wanted a coffee I would go to a coffee shop.Why cant I get my car NOW?'

A triumph of style over substance. :(

paulie803
27-01-2013, 11:26 PM
Care to elaborate???

My big issue with them, is they have a "pretty" customer area, but go there to collect the car, and "....be a few minutes, take a seat, read th epaper, have a cup of coffee...blah, blah....."

After 5 minutes, I go to the desk, "Look, I only came here to collect my car. I did not come here to read the paper, and if I wanted a coffee I would go to a coffee shop.Why cant I get my car NOW?'

A triumph of style over substance. :(
Have you to them ur not happy or just posted it here?

D'Artagnan
27-01-2013, 11:57 PM
I've got TorquePro and an OBD interface. It'll read error codes if you want to have a look?

AZAZL
28-01-2013, 12:08 AM
Have you to them ur not happy or just posted it here?

Que?

Are you saying the customer has to teach the dealer. Why should they get the privilege?

I've had instances where the dealer fail has been so bad I've walked. Gone to someone else, never to return. They do not deserve the joy of my ire. They surely are not ignorant of their failures.

One Holden dealer cost me several thou in a fail on my HSV taking weeks to resolve and I was not going to get more upset by trying to get a stone wall to move. They know who they are in Ozzie Park. Problem, an undiagnosed regulator failure, resolved in a day by Shacks in Freo. Not before I had cooked half my electricals.

If the dealer makes a policy of treating customers like morons, the only customers they will keep are the morons.

Like those that buy Kias... :lol:

paulie803
28-01-2013, 12:13 AM
Not at all was just asking a question. Unfortunately some cars like Kia have issues & the manufacturers aren't always helpful in how to resolve it & there is only so much the dealer can do, or a certain order of checking thru shit to find exactly is causing said problem

robwas
28-01-2013, 03:07 AM
It's a 2009 Kia right? My guess would be its due for replacement.

BOFH
28-01-2013, 08:49 AM
Care to elaborate???

My big issue with them, is they have a "pretty" customer area, but go there to collect the car, and "....be a few minutes, take a seat, read th epaper, have a cup of coffee...blah, blah....."

After 5 minutes, I go to the desk, "Look, I only came here to collect my car. I did not come here to read the paper, and if I wanted a coffee I would go to a coffee shop.Why cant I get my car NOW?'

A triumph of style over substance. :(

Short version - dropped the car in for a service. They called to say it had a leak in the power steering so it would be fixed under warranty. I said it didn't and don't touch it. They did anyway and fucked everything up. Took over a month to get them to fix their cock up after they were told to leave the original non existent fault alone.

peter600
28-01-2013, 11:00 PM
Care to elaborate???

My big issue with them, is they have a "pretty" customer area, but go there to collect the car, and "....be a few minutes, take a seat, read th epaper, have a cup of coffee...blah, blah....."

After 5 minutes, I go to the desk, "Look, I only came here to collect my car. I did not come here to read the paper, and if I wanted a coffee I would go to a coffee shop.Why cant I get my car NOW?'


Seriously, I love hanging out at the dealer's. Internet, big TV, coffee, papers to read, cars to perve on....

I feel disappointed if my car's ready to go when I get there.... and very chilled when I finally leave if it's not!

Scarb Toyota ftw!

MisterP
29-01-2013, 10:13 AM
Leaving the car with them can also have issues as we found out.
Brand new Ford Focus in 2006 from Range Ford (Maddington). In the first 6 months, no less than 9 garage visits, in that time it had 3 water pumps, power steering pump, 2 or 3 idlers, belts etc all trying to find the problem with a screaming noise from the engine.
Eventually got so hacked off threw the keys at the garage and said "fix it"
Whilst it was in their care, the mechanic (in his defense he was trying to find the issue) didn't fix the bonnet back down correctly and whilst doing 70kph+ down Tonkin the bonnet flipped up, smashed the windscreen and bent brackets and all the other gubbins (front wings needed replacing for some reason too).
Anyway...6 or so months after this, had to have windscreen replaced by some windscreen place. He happened to ask if the car had been in a front end smash as all the windscreen gaps were all over the shop. Took it back to Ford, who took it back and re-fitted the bits and fixed it up. All very annoying at the time as it was a brand new car.

In short..lemon laws dont exist here in Aus. Ford Australia were next to useless. The dealer who we purchased the car from was worse than useless (Range Ford in Maddington). End result is I would NEVER purchase a brand new car again.
As far as the OP's problem, Id suggest persevering, but be prepared to cut your losses at some point. Perhaps get a 2nd opinion, as although it doesn't cost you anything, the time you spend going back and forth, on the phone, it gets to you and wears you down as all you want is what you have in good faith paid for.
All the dealers seem to do in our case was fob you off and go through the motions.

Its a bit of a moot point now though as we still have the car (couldn't afford another car or have the scruples to sell it on), its now pretty good, runs all day every day and besides the kids have systematically ruined it so its probably worth next to nothing.

KillSwitch
05-03-2013, 04:48 PM
Update.

Gone to Consumer protection. Can create a case. No lemon Law in WA.

Contacted Kia Australia, they didn’t seem to care much. Told them we are going to take it to another Kia Dealer, they said don’t otherwise new dealer will need to start troubleshooting from scratch. Apparently they don’t communicate.

Been back 6 times now. Still no refund for towing. Still there getting "fixed". Off the road 11weeks since 6th Dec.

Had a meeting with Dealer Princpule 3 weeks ago, promised the world. Still hasnt delivered.

So today, esculated. TT and ACA.

Will keep you posted.

Chrimsey
05-03-2013, 05:21 PM
Dealers Give All us Mechanics a Bad name hey, The ECU should Log The fault so next time the scan Tool is Plugged in it should point them Into the right direction, Ie CAS or Maybe a Immobiliser Communication Issue, But in agree Most Dealership Apprentices end up with Not much value as mechanics, Im Looking For a Good Mechanic at the Moment so i know how hard they are to find to employ. Best of luck with the repair