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ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 08:51 AM
Yo peeps.

I have bought a new vehicle (a ute) and for reasons the more business minded of those out there will guess, I am going to start up a business that details motorcycles.

Now everyone knows that sometimes washing ya beast can be a royal pain in the ass and I know that I have often said shit I would love to get someone to wash my bike for me but then I think, nah not letting just anyone touch my pride and joy.

BUT if it was someone from the forum and someone I knew who loved bikes and treated his like a god, then I would be willing to let them do it, at least once to see the results.

SO my query is, how many here would be prepared to use such a service and what do people here think would be a reasonable charge, bearing in mind i clean bikes with a tooth brush, dry them and them wax and polish em and this usually takes between 2 and 3 hours depending on how dirty the bike is.

I am thinking along the lines of the following (but will have to firmly set prices once i work out all costs etc):

Basic wash, swing arm, wheel clean using wash n wax soap: $30
Wash, wheel clean with separate wax/polish/plexus on black plastic parts: $40:
Full detail including chain clean and relube: $60.

Give me your views please.

brendon_zx
21-04-2006, 09:10 AM
I think the prices are very reasonable...

Miss Behave
21-04-2006, 09:20 AM
In the past I've paid the price of a bottle of Drambuie for that sort of service, so $60 for the works is a great price.

Would you travel to wherever the bike's located (extra fee?), or want the bike brought to you?

Top idea. Good luck :thumbsup:

ONYERBIKE
21-04-2006, 09:28 AM
Is your full detail going to include some of the detailing on Saf's list?

Saf's detailing (holiday money gathering) (http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/board/index.php?showtopic=11462&hl=)

WSS^^^^ Come to us or travel to you? I spose with the ute you're thinking of a come to you, would this include place of work? or are you thinking of after work hours/weekend?

ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 09:44 AM
Is your full detail going to include some of the detailing on Saf's list?

Saf's detailing (holiday money gathering) (http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/board/index.php?showtopic=11462&hl=)

WSS^^^^ Come to us or travel to you? I spose with the ute you're thinking of a come to you, would this include place of work? or are you thinking of after work hours/weekend?
[/b]

Greasing pegs and levers is a servicing item so wont be doing that.

If the battery is easy accessible, i can organise a water dispercing spray no probs.

Chain clean and regrease will be using Kettenmax ( http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/boar...showtopic=19575 (http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/board/index.php?showtopic=19575) )

Re time of cleaning, I aint giving up this lawyering game so it will be strictly weekends, I can come to you in metro area, outside metro area (ie past Clarkson to the North and past Kwinana to south will incur additional travel fee of say $20)

Cheers

Foofie Foofie
21-04-2006, 09:50 AM
Simon, I posted this very subject as Onyerbike has just dug up some time ago .... i never had one job out of it, and only one reply of interest on psb.

I get bikes to great detail, but people dont usually see it for that when they have to pay for it. I myself used to think like this too .... i would do all my own cars and so on. One day we stumbled across the best one man operation in the car detailing industry , and its amazing when i let him do his job once every 4 or so times i do it, how easy it is to maintain afterwards.

But yea ... the idea is there, people allways complain about having filty bikes, some dont know how to clean them well or dont have the facilities, yet wont really be keen to have it done.

As far as greasing pegs and levers , pivot points etc, you may see it as a service item, but when you wash a bike down, commonly these areas have a buildup of old grease, sand and other shit that now looks liek a black paste, that needs to go , and you dont hand a customer back a bike with dry or non lubricated pivot points. You may see it as servicing, i see it as detailing.

tigerleo
21-04-2006, 09:55 AM
Prices sound very reasonable, Simon! My bike needs a good clean at the moment but I can't be farked doing it - when are you in business! :biggrin:

ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 10:09 AM
As far as greasing pegs and levers , pivot points etc, you may see it as a service item, but when you wash a bike down, commonly these areas have a buildup of old grease, sand and other shit that now looks liek a black paste, that needs to go , and you dont hand a customer back a bike with dry or non lubricated pivot points. You may see it as servicing, i see it as detailing.
[/b]
Fair enough, now that you point that out, i have changed my mind on that issue, how hard can it be.

The other idea I was toying with was recovery, ie if a bike breaks down i can go out and grab it, not smash recovery, just break down, dont want me new ute covered in oil and shite!

Miss Behave
21-04-2006, 10:56 AM
There's the indemnity issue for you to consider too, like scratches, scrapes, accident damage, etc. Then again seeing as you're in the "lawyering business" you've probably got that covered already?

ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 11:00 AM
There's the indemnity issue for you to consider too, like scratches, scrapes, accident damage, etc. Then again seeing as you're in the "lawyering business" you've probably got that covered already?
[/b]

yes I have checked out limited liabililty property insurance up to $40,000. Yet another deduction :teehee:

sabre1
21-04-2006, 11:22 AM
Fair enough, now that you point that out, i have changed my mind on that issue, how hard can it be.

The other idea I was toying with was recovery, ie if a bike breaks down i can go out and grab it, not smash recovery, just break down, dont want me new ute covered in oil and shite!
[/b]


not being smart or anything Simon but carting bikes in the back of a ute as a profession wont be covered under your normal vehicles insurance, hence you would have to get extra for it plus on top of that liabiliy insurance THEN you need to work out how much liability (currently I have I think it is 3/4 million on all trucks)
Dont get me wrong I not knocking you just soooo many unknowns come into it like how are you going to get said dead bikes up and in the back of ute eg by you pushing ? or mechanical , if by you pushing what happens if something goes wrong and believe me in 25 years of doing thisa it does will you have medical insurance?

Sometimes mate it is unbelievable the hidden traps as I said DONT get me wrong good idea but a bit more of a look see at what you might have to do and what could be the worse thing to happen hence a chat with someone who does it or similiar might help

On a lighter note do you have any idea what you would like to be doing as I know a few places after people for varying and different things ?

The bike detailing would be great But at the moment I wouldnt be of need of it to be honest, TRUCK cleaning different matter lol.

If I catch up with you on a ride Simon will have a chat with you over a couple things

greenfuji
21-04-2006, 11:53 AM
When can you start? Real keen for this service.

ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 01:19 PM
haha Ute arrives 17 May 06.

Sabre i hear ya mate... All i want in these times of rising petrol costs is a business that i can run outside my lawyering that i can claim a percentage of the vehicle running and maintaining costs!

The detailing business was one I thought would be sweet and if I only did 2 bikes a weekend on a Saturday that would be sufficient cos i dont want it to make a profit as I already pay way too much income tax!

No this is not tax avoidance...... ! :ninja:

FJ Steve
21-04-2006, 01:52 PM
I'd be keen...and I am at the northern extremity!

Gronk
21-04-2006, 01:56 PM
I think $60 is cheap as.

I've got 2 x bikes waiting!!

Miss Behave
21-04-2006, 02:19 PM
I'd be keen...and I am at the northern extremity!
[/b]


Might pay you to wait until after this weekend, Steve coz you'll probably come back filthy as :thumbsup:

sabre1
21-04-2006, 02:33 PM
BTW simon get the ute on gas as soon as gas is 100% deductible

ButtNekid
21-04-2006, 03:48 PM
BTW simon get the ute on gas as soon as gas is 100% deductible
[/b]

Ahh but alas, she will be a 340Kw/ 750NM fire breathing Gen 4 6litre bought for performance so to whack gas on her would be sacrilage i feel
:down:

Deej
21-04-2006, 04:21 PM
Not wanting to dampen entrepreneurial enthusiasm, I don’t personally believe there is a sustainable opportunity in what you are suggesting, for a few simple reasons:

1) Some people, like me, get pleasure out of cleaning their bike. Its kinda therapeutic;

2) The majority of bike riders are very tight with their money or don’t have much of it. It is in many cases the reason they ride bikes in the first place;

3) Driving 20 mins to a location to use $5 of cleaning consumables and two hours of your time to make $30 would not even pay for the depreciation of your car let alone compensate you for your time or the exposure to the liability of scratching a customers bike. You would want to really enjoy clearning motorbikes!

4) Just like being an accountant or a lawyer as example…. all you have available is the selling of your time. And you only have so much time that you can sell. There is no opportunity to leverage off your time in a labour intensive business when you yourself are the labourer;

5) Finally, one shouldn’t base a business decision on reasons of taxation. Tax for business operating expenses are only deductible at your personal income tax bracket or company tax rate (depending on if sole trader or incorporated company), not 100% of the expense itself. If your deductions outstrip your income from doing the detailing it means negative cash flow and the making of a loss. Why then would you want to do it?

If you are paying tax, you are making money. Stick with paying tax, its far more lucrative.

..but that’s just my opinion of course…..

This information is free, tax deductible donations graciously accepted. Please send to:

Deej Venture Capital Ltd
C/- NBC (Cayman) Bank Limited
PO Box 31120 SMB
Grand Cayman
Cayman Islands, BWI

No animals were harmed in the preparation of this post.

BigTim
21-04-2006, 06:03 PM
Ahh but alas, she will be a 340Kw/ 750NM fire breathing Gen 4 6litre bought for performance so to whack gas on her would be sacrilage i feel
:down:
[/b]


First off, nice choice in car :thumbsup: .


You might want to have a look at direct gas injection. It's an alternative to your typical gas conversion, and apparently there is no power loss, and, with some cars, possibly a power gain. Bit more expensive to install though.

Just something to consider.

XSorXpire
21-04-2006, 06:18 PM
First off, nice choice in car :thumbsup: .
You might want to have a look at direct gas injection. It's an alternative to your typical gas conversion, and apparently there is no power loss, and, with some cars, possibly a power gain. Bit more expensive to install though.

Just something to consider.
[/b]
WHS
and dont forget the water injectipon...

Rod
21-04-2006, 07:00 PM
Can you still claim business losses against your personal income? I had heard that there was some changes in about 2002 but I'm not sure of the extent. It was fairly lucrative for some people I knew who bought a bike like those "hire a harley" businesses where you go for a ride on the back of a HD for an hour or two. The running expenses and depreciation would far outstrip the revenue and the loss reduces your own taxable income so in effect the tax office pays for a fair chunk of your bike.

Deej
21-04-2006, 11:34 PM
Can you still claim business losses against your personal income? I had heard that there was some changes in about 2002 but I'm not sure of the extent. It was fairly lucrative for some people I knew who bought a bike like those "hire a harley" businesses where you go for a ride on the back of a HD for an hour or two. The running expenses and depreciation would far outstrip the revenue and the loss reduces your own taxable income so in effect the tax office pays for a fair chunk of your bike.
[/b]

If you are a sole trader (IE, only have a registered business name and you operate a business as Joe Bloggs T/A (trading as) ACME Turtle Training , yes. Because you are your business. If you are an incorporated entity (Pty Ltd or Ltd company), no, because the company is its own legal entity independent of you as an individual and as such it has its own tax file number and pays company tax rate (30c). it has no effect on your personal tax unless, as a shareholder, it makes a profit and you pay yourself dividends (unfranked, partially franked or fully franked) which means the company has already paid tax (to whatever level, assuming 30c if fully franked) and then you need only pay the difference between the franked amount and your personal income tax braket (or get a deduction if your income tax braket is below 30c).

Naturally you can claim depreciation and vehicle running expenses as a deduction whether you be a sole trader or a company however, this is why the ATO require you to keep a log book for a short period each financial year so that if you ride your so called "Business Motorbike" around for 5 k’s (for your business) and then do the next 95k’s busting mingers on the freeway (for personal use) then you only have the benefit of 5% of the total depreciation and running costs as an expense rather than 100% of the costs as an expense.

Now, everyone would fudge their log book to some extent, sure, but remember, there is a difference between tax minimisation and tax avoidance. Enter at your own risk.

Taz
22-04-2006, 10:48 PM
as deej points out...

you need to keep a log book on your vehicle and can only claim your % expence for what you used for income production....


that being said

at $60 a clean you will not break even with the travel but then your vehicle travelling will cut shitloads off your % for purchase price of such a fine work vehicle...that may be all the incentive you need to start the business and the ato does not have any rulings to cover "stupid" or "dumb" business persons.

A loss is a loss so lowers your total income thus your tax liability.

Deej
23-04-2006, 01:38 AM
A loss is a loss so lowers your total income[/b]

This is the key point.... so ask yourself.... do you really wana have a lower income? Let me think....... nnnnnnup.

Jonchilds
23-04-2006, 05:26 PM
A loss is a loss so lowers your total income thus your tax liability.
[/b]

Assuming you're paying 47.5% Tax, by lowering your income by $1000, you're only going to be able to get $475 back - costing you $525...

Atleast that's the way things have been explained to me.

ButtNekid
23-04-2006, 08:08 PM
This is the key point.... so ask yourself.... do you really wana have a lower income? Let me think....... nnnnnnup.
[/b]

Deej I thrashed this all with my accountant last Thursday.

As a sole trader:

I am going to spend the money on fuel, insurance, rego, tyres, load interest etc etc anyway regardless of whatever 'business' i ran.

If the business runs at a loss (which it would have done cos i cant be assed doing much outside of work) and i clean one bike a week, my understanding is that the say the 'business' runs at $10,000 annual loss because expenses (at what ever % is claimed) outweighs the income from one bike a week, this $10K annual loss reduces my taxable (not total so I am still earning the lawyerin income plus the piddly bike cleaning income so total income increases but taxable income or liability to pay tax on my total income falls) income from my lawyering to $95K and I only pay personal tax on that amount instead of the $105K and the fuel, tyres loan interest etc at a percentage of use is paid too.

I have checked with two accountants other than mine and this would and did for many a year, work BUT the only problem I discovered chatting with my accountant is the tax department is now onto this and changed rules slightly, unless your business turns over more than $20K, has $200,000 in real estate, $100,000 in vehicles or makes a profit for its first 3 years, the losses are taken as loss credits, and it does not lower your taxable income. This happened in 02 i think.

I asked before i spoke with my accountant because when i was a courier, my 01R1 basically paid for itself doing this way (although it never courier anything much ;) ).

So basically it is no longer a way to reduce tax and have something paid off.

Deej
24-04-2006, 01:19 AM
I refer back to my comments earlier….

If you clean one bike a week and drive 5 kilometers to do it and then in the same week you do the next 95 kilometers for private driving, then you will get the enormous benefit of …….. 5% of the vehicle running/depreciation costs.

If you estimate these total costs to be $10,000 per year then you will get the benefit of claiming the grand total of 5% of $10,000 ($500) as an expense on your personal tax return. At a 48c tax bracket that’s whole $240 tax benefit for your trouble. Wouldn’t even pay for an accountants fees for lodging the return.

This is on the assumption that you meet any ATO requirements that you are actually carrying on an enterprise, as your second accountant indicated, which is a bit hard to prove with one bike a week

U may want to go to a 4th accountant.

sabre1
24-04-2006, 01:39 AM
geez I am soooo glad my all vehicles bar my bike are all 100% tax deductible :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

ButtNekid
24-04-2006, 07:34 AM
I refer back to my comments earlier….

If you clean one bike a week and drive 5 kilometers to do it and then in the same week you do the next 95 kilometers for private driving, then you will get the enormous benefit of …….. 5% of the vehicle running/depreciation costs.

If you estimate these total costs to be $10,000 per year then you will get the benefit of claiming the grand total of 5% of $10,000 ($500) as an expense on your personal tax return. At a 48c tax bracket that’s whole $240 tax benefit for your trouble. Wouldn’t even pay for an accountants fees for lodging the return.

This is on the assumption that you meet any ATO requirements that you are actually carrying on an enterprise, as your second accountant indicated, which is a bit hard to prove with one bike a week

U may want to go to a 4th accountant.
[/b]

It would be the $10K loss after applying the percentage for use but in any event I have given up on the idea and will leave it to the Marg's house to negative my income. I just wanted to ease the pain of the fuel prices somehow. You know a lot about business Deej which is why i do not want to argue with you. If you have any ideas to soothe this troubled soul's concerns please give me a hoy (but dont say - buy a less fuel consuming car hehe)

CHeers all, this thread can now be locked and self destruct in 5.4.3.2.1..... BOOM

Jonchilds
24-04-2006, 08:50 AM
(but dont say - buy a less fuel consuming car hehe)[/b]

Get a 2fiddy to commute :laugh: (well, it's not a car)

Deej
24-04-2006, 09:29 AM
will leave it to the Marg's house to negative my income.[/b] Much betera idea. Although its negative cashflow at least its likely (in the long term) to have a capital gain, unlike a car.


If you have any ideas to soothe this troubled soul's concerns please give me a hoy (but dont say - buy a less fuel consuming car hehe)[/b]

VESPA FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!

ButtNekid
24-04-2006, 09:32 AM
Much betera idea. Although its negative cashflow at least its likley (in the long term) to have a capital gain, unlike a car.
VESPA FOR THE WIN!!!!!!!
[/b]

and for 4 weeks of the year i get to kick back and enjoy (once it is built and assuming i can get suitable short term tenants but make sure it is vacant at a nice time of year)

Fanks for everyone's input and wOOhOO to the vespa

Deej
24-04-2006, 09:35 AM
Fanks for everyone's input and BOO to the vespa
[/b]

Carefull now..... remember, dissing Vinny is a banable offence!! :wink:

ButtNekid
24-04-2006, 09:37 AM
Errr errmm, edited :whistling: ROFL

Deej
24-04-2006, 09:48 AM
Fanks for everyone's input and wOOhOO to the vespa
[/b]

Now yer talkin.