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chief wiggum
02-11-2006, 10:04 AM
joe public can now give photographic or video evidence of hoonism to the cops and get the hoons vehicle confiscated under new legislation

:ph34r: big brother is watching :ph34r:

kellz
02-11-2006, 10:07 AM
that is total and utter bullshit.

thats so wrong..
so now every man and his dog is going to play mr perfect citizen...

ok so who is gonna be the first to dob in someone they have a grudge on because they pissed them off by doing something better than them or beating them around barbagallo????

Klink
02-11-2006, 10:08 AM
meh... the public has always been able to provide evidence... but they still have to prove that the footage/photo is of you/your vehicle.

There are evidence handling procedures that all evidence must comply with, IE anti tampering and chain of evidence etc.

This is just something to keep the old biddies happy. So when you go and do donuts on their lawn and they take photos of you... just ask for a copy for your scrap book.

EMVY
02-11-2006, 10:09 AM
that is total and utter bullshit.

thats so wrong..
so now every man and his dog is going to play mr perfect citizen...

ok so who is gonna be the first to dob in someone they have a grudge on because they pissed them off by doing something better than them or beating them around barbagallo????
[/b]
Exactly.
Someone took my parking space so I will dob them in for doing burnouts etc... <_<

Billywhizz
02-11-2006, 10:13 AM
It goes both ways....

the next time someone does you an injustice, dont kick their door as usual

keep one hand on the bars,

get camera or mobile phone out of pocket, dont forget to maintain balance

stand up, aim shoot as veering off road

call bike rescue to get you home

send photo to I dont give a shit plod dept

wait for fine in the post for dangerous driving :whistling:

shrike
02-11-2006, 10:17 AM
You&#39;ll still require the evidence of them in the act

and as klink said, anti-tampering etc. Not any photographic/video evidence is allowed in court. most wouold get thrown out because it was not taken by official equipment by official (read unbiased) personnel.

And even if someone had a cameraphone or a camera out taking pics as you dot he burnout or speed on by, how well do you think they&#39;d be able to line up, focus and snap off a pic of your licence plate?

Oh, and Kel can give you tips on making your scrapbooks look purdy :P

Foofie Foofie
02-11-2006, 10:20 AM
You guys have no idea about whats on the horizon. I still have my Slovak passport if shit hits the fan ....

Mattis
02-11-2006, 10:36 AM
More info here (http://thewestaustralian.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=11889#)

So basically if you do 45km/h over the limit, are involved in road rage or photographic/video/written statement is provided they impound your vehicle for 48 hours.


Since anti-hoon law was introduced in September 2004, more than 750 reckless and dangerous drivers have had their vehicles impounded for 48 hours.[/b]

So what they are saying is that an increasing amount of vehicles are being impounded due to hoon laws, meaning this is not reducing the amount of hooning? No....never.... :D

Foofie Foofie
02-11-2006, 10:44 AM
Actually Mattis, 95% of the cars the confiscate, are mum and dads Ford Falcon driven by innocent lil Dave who would never get 3 of his scumbag looser mates to hold the rear guards up so it would pull open wheeler burnouts.

The whole thing is sold on the perf car and bike scenario, and actually thats not the genre thats the perp here.

Klink
02-11-2006, 10:51 AM
and as klink said, anti-tampering etc. Not any photographic/video evidence is allowed in court. most wouold get thrown out because it was not taken by official equipment by official (read unbiased) personnel.
[/b]
It doesnt need to be unbiased persons... but the evidence has to be unbiased/unedited. IE they cant submit a portion of a photograph, it would have to be in its entirety. Police are not considered unbiased, but they are sworn officers which gives them a bit more "kudos" in court when they give evidence, but they still have to PROVE that the evidence shows the accused doing whatever naughty thing it was they were accused of.

For example... audio evidence is something I may know something about. Audio evidence has to conform to the "McKeever Hurdles" principal: Recording device must be capable of recording the conversation - Fact that the recording exists is usually enough proof
The operator is competent to use the recording device - Fact that the recording exists is once again usually enough proof
Conversations were made voluntarily and without inducement - Officers testify to this fact
The speakers are identified - There are ways to prove this forensically
The original recording is preserved - Evidence handling procedures
Recording is authentic and correct - There are ways to prove this forensically
No changes, additions, or deletions have been made - Evidence handling procedures and the recording is made available in its entirety from start to finish.

Its not an easy process to get a tick in each box. So the short answer is... yes "Joe public" can submit evidence... but without the proof of integrity the evidence will most likely be thrown out.

cowgirl
02-11-2006, 10:53 AM
joe public can now give photographic or video evidence of hoonism to the cops and get the hoons vehicle confiscated under new legislation

:ph34r: big brother is watching :ph34r:
[/b]


errr... :ermm:
*waits for police to come knocking on front door* :ph34r:

Uncle Ho
02-11-2006, 10:58 AM
** goes and fits video camera to bike **

dr00
02-11-2006, 11:09 AM
Actually Mattis, 95% of the cars the confiscate, are mum and dads Ford Falcon driven by innocent lil Dave who would never get 3 of his scumbag looser mates to hold the rear guards up so it would pull open wheeler burnouts.

The whole thing is sold on the perf car and bike scenario, and actually thats not the genre thats the perp here.
[/b]

michelle roberts (or more likely one of her assistants) specifically said to me in an email that a very small percentage of the cars confiscated are "modified performance cars".

i think TurboR1 needs to start selling camera kits like the one poking through the screen on his bike. then we can flood the cop shops with footage of dickhead drivers :D

smeghead
02-11-2006, 11:10 AM
.. yeah, I still got me UK passport but I think this hype was all generated from the UK so I&#39;m screwed both ways :down: ... looks like I&#39;ll hafta hide in ya luggage when ya leave for Slovakia Saf :D :thumbsup:



You guys have no idea about whats on the horizon. I still have my Slovak passport if shit hits the fan ....
[/b]

Triple Treat
02-11-2006, 11:14 AM
If anyone wants helmet cams, let me know.

Total hands free and allows you to film all the cagers in they&#39;re full glory - carrying on like they always do.

Great way to hilite what we have to deal with everyday and it just may help in an accident claim or hit and run situation that us riders are often dealing with.

Pkunk
02-11-2006, 11:17 AM
correct me if i am wrong...

but arent digital photos (from say someones compact camera) still inadmissible in court?

if they are admissible now, the next person to shit me off gets their number plates photochopped onto a picture of a hoon&#39;s bike :P :rolleyes:

Foofie Foofie
02-11-2006, 11:22 AM
.. yeah, I still got me UK passport but I think this hype was all generated from the UK so I&#39;m screwed both ways :down: ... looks like I&#39;ll hafta hide in ya luggage when ya leave for Slovakia Saf :D :thumbsup:
[/b]

The babes Smeg , its ALL worth it for the babes !

smeghead
02-11-2006, 11:24 AM
.. then I&#39;m up for some language lessons now; when we leavin :yes: ;) :D



The babes Smeg , its ALL worth it for the babes !
[/b]

TurboR1
02-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Good reading! (http://www.immigration-world.com/immigration/info-slovakia-eng.shtml)

Pete
02-11-2006, 11:30 AM
You could just about set you calenda by these reports of tougher Hoon legislation allowing the public to witness for confiscation. We have heard about it every 3 months since it was orginally dropped out of the legislation due to its obvious flaws. The same flaws that will probably see it not pass this round too.

Its part of the news cycle now like 4x4&#39;s in suburbia and P Plate V8&#39;s and Ricers and Front numberplates.

sathid
02-11-2006, 11:30 AM
bring out the helmet cams :lol:

fight fire with fire.

chief wiggum
02-11-2006, 11:48 AM
bring out the helmet cams :lol:

fight fire with fire.
[/b]

now there&#39;s a thought...flame thrower on the bike...hmmmmm

Klink
02-11-2006, 11:50 AM
correct me if i am wrong...

but arent digital photos (from say someones compact camera) still inadmissible in court?

if they are admissible now, the next person to shit me off gets their number plates photochopped onto a picture of a hoon&#39;s bike :P :rolleyes:
[/b]

They are admissible... but if they have not been handled in accordance with good evidence handling procedures then they will be dismissed.

If an image has been suspected of tampering they will be sent for forensic verification.

Old Dung Beetle
02-11-2006, 11:58 AM
If I were to worry about propositions like this I will die from old age at 39 so iím not going to.

The amount of demerit points I still have indicate either one of two things.
1. I am a good example of a law abiding citizen out on the roads
Or
2. The police are incompetent

I have lived in places where the police presence is strong and you cannot get away with much, it isnít very often I see a cop car out on the roads here in WA however there are a lot of multinovaís which for some people are no threat whether they are forward or rear facing. Perth police should re-evaluate their strategies before getting the public to do their job if they want to be effective in what they are trying to achieve imho

There have been a couple of wild ideas flying around and I wonder if the court system will be able to cope.

Mattis
02-11-2006, 12:03 PM
now there&#39;s a thought...flame thrower on the bike...hmmmmm
[/b]


Just watch out for one of these though...

http://members.westnet.com.au/mattis/TailgateDeath.jpg

Klink
02-11-2006, 12:05 PM
If I were to worry about propositions like this I will die from old age at 39 so iím not going to.

The amount of demerit points I still have indicate either one of two things.
1. I am a good example of a law abiding citizen out on the roads
Or
2. The police are incompetent

I have lived in places where the police presence is strong and you cannot get away with much, it isnít very often I see a cop car out on the roads here in WA however there are a lot of multinovaís which for some people are no threat whether they are forward or rear facing. Perth police should re-evaluate their strategies before getting the public to do their job if they want to be effective in what they are trying to achieve imho

There have been a couple of wild ideas flying around and I wonder if the court system will be able to cope.
[/b]
Couldnt have said it better myself!

wombat39
02-11-2006, 02:24 PM
I could be (more than likely am) wrong but with a family member in ACC digital pics they take must be ROM. Too easy to manipulate pics in any other recordable media. eg a burn once only cd of archieve quality that the pic has benn directly copied.

I personally have not heard or read anything about this so I put it in "Hey I saw it on the internet - it must be true" file and carry on with my felonious life.

sathid
02-11-2006, 02:36 PM
actually it&#39;s been reported on the radio a few times today. But then again, the news has begun to develop it&#39;s own kind of category of "It was on the news it must be true"

lol

or perhaps it&#39;s always been that way...

Goofy
02-11-2006, 02:38 PM
And to think we had an opportunity to maybe have a say in these laws.

pity

sathid
02-11-2006, 02:41 PM
lol. :ph34r:

who says we still dont

Billywhizz
02-11-2006, 02:44 PM
I could be (more than likely am) wrong but with a family member in ACC digital pics they take must be ROM. Too easy to manipulate pics in any other recordable media. eg a burn once only cd of archieve quality that the pic has benn directly copied.

I personally have not heard or read anything about this so I put it in "Hey I saw it on the internet - it must be true" file and carry on with my felonious life.
[/b]


http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21...976-948,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,20687976-948,00.html)

Why dont you all ask the honourable gentleman some questions
http://www.ministers.wa.gov.au/kobelke/
john-kobelke@dpc.wa.gov.au

Billywhizz
02-11-2006, 02:57 PM
Mines in :thumbsup:
Dear Sir

I am interested to learn more about the way in which road users can make safer roads in WA, in fact anywhere

I am a car and also a motorcycle user, most days I dread the thought of travelling on our badly kept roads, apart from the lunatics who ride on them, surely the conditions of the roads should be first and foremost?

you have mentioned filming or photographing hoons,
How do you suggest should this be done?
what format does the photo or film have to be in to stand up in court? will we all be compensated to enable us to have dash or helmet mounted cameras fitted?
Or... as many readers will no doubt jump at the chance to dob a hoon, I think the road toll will increase with idiots using mobile phone cameras, cameras or hand held vidoe camera to catch the said offenders

I can just imagine an army of one handed drivers swerving down the freeway attempting to their good deed of the day

Yours Concerned

Klink
02-11-2006, 02:57 PM
I could be (more than likely am) wrong but with a family member in ACC digital pics they take must be ROM. Too easy to manipulate pics in any other recordable media. eg a burn once only cd of archieve quality that the pic has benn directly copied.

I personally have not heard or read anything about this so I put it in "Hey I saw it on the internet - it must be true" file and carry on with my felonious life.
[/b]
Totally not true.

People think that digital images are the only ones that can be altered... also not true.

JSXR
02-11-2006, 03:15 PM
I was told by a friendly Mr Plod that if I wanted to use photographic evidence of a certain twit neighbour dismantling my fence I couldnt use the digital cam as the images would not be admissable in court.

I went and got my real camera :) thanks Mr Plod.

but this surely applies? If they wont allow digital cam or phone video etc in court as evidence, this argument is trashed. Nothing to worry about.

They now allow digital images as evidence?

Photoshop is our friend.

danoz
02-11-2006, 03:20 PM
it&#39;s just getting harder and harder -_-

Klink
02-11-2006, 03:26 PM
As I said... ANYTHING is admissible in court. As long as its integrity can be proven.

Law enforcement agencies have been using digital images and video for quite a few years now.

Madkat
02-11-2006, 03:29 PM
I just love the way they decide who is and isn&#39;t a hoon...

If Mr Plod decides that you have test the acceleration or deceleration capabilitys of your vehicle. if you are doing X number of K&#39;s over the limit. if you make excess noise and or loose traction even in the wet as well as a nuber of other reasons the police can just go. Your a hoon and take your car...

oh course all the police out there will say Hey&#39; it&#39;s at our Descresion and well it seemed to be all well and good to give out Warnings instead of fines or taking peoples cars when they were fighting for there pay rise.

Hey don&#39;t get me wrong i&#39;m all for the police.. infact i work for the Fed Gov myself so i know how hard it is..:P hahahaha (did i say that out loud)

but really charging first time offenders with the hoon law is a piss poor excuse if you ask me...

thats my 2 cents worth...

I&#39;m Darren Hintch and your not...

:whistling:

mstriumph
02-11-2006, 03:51 PM
that is total and utter bullshit.

thats so wrong..
so now every man and his dog is going to play mr perfect citizen...

ok so who is gonna be the first to dob in someone they have a grudge on because they pissed them off by doing something better than them or beating them around barbagallo????
[/b]


yep

my neighbour carries a grudge [long story - it started with me telling him to get his hand of my arse ...... and progressed to him &#39;accidentally&#39; setting fire to my block ... :rolleyes: ]

since the fallout from THAT little episode he&#39;s been waaaaaaaaay too chicken to irritate me face to face - but
how long d&#39;you think it&#39;ll take him to realise that he and a few of his good buddies can give &#39;witness statements&#39; to the police about some exploit that never actually happened and get my bike impounded?

how can you protect yourself from mischief makers when the system encourages them?

this is NOT a good law.



.........................i think TurboR1 needs to start selling camera kits like the one poking through the screen on his bike. then we can flood the cop shops with footage of dickhead drivers :D
[/b]



http://www.schmaili.com/smileys/-85.gif great idea!!!

i&#39;ll be in that ............. could someone organize a group buy?

-J-
02-11-2006, 04:54 PM
If it comes in it comes in. I have now seen it being advertised on the news now too.

I wonder how they are gonna go with all the courts being backed up with this crap

I reckon they should take the cars away for 28 days and suspsension , for a first offence, 2 months for second and 6 months for 3rd plus suspension

just my 10 c is all

Wedge
02-11-2006, 05:10 PM
I thought the courts were already booked well in advance and are struggling to cope. Hows this going to help?

M_Green
02-11-2006, 05:17 PM
I reckon they should take the cars away for 28 days and suspsension , for a first offence, 2 months for second and 6 months for 3rd plus suspension

just my 10 c is all
[/b]

I do agree that we need to do something about reckless behaviour, but 28 days for a first offence sounds a bit rough, considering an accidental &#39;chirp&#39; going around a corner counts as hooning, in the wet my car loses traction very easily....without trying...if a cop was to see my wheels spinning at the lights and was in a bad mod he could take my car away for 28 days, for something i didnt intend to do.

Warp Speed
02-11-2006, 06:32 PM
Actually Mattis, 95% of the cars the confiscate, are mum and dads Ford Falcon driven by innocent lil Dave who would never get 3 of his scumbag looser mates to hold the rear guards up so it would pull open wheeler burnouts.

The whole thing is sold on the perf car and bike scenario, and actually thats not the genre thats the perp here.
[/b]

Geez Saf - how did you know it was my Mums car :o & my mates aren&#39;t losers - OK

This is a potential nightmare for the whole justice system IF its gets through. Just like a big domestic drama - will tie the courts up in Rose Hancock type cases

A good laywer & expert witness&#39;s will make this legislation a joke.

Good luck with it all Mr Plod = you&#39;ll have no time to chase me cos you&#39;ll be looking at Hoon video&#39;s at the station house ;) - don&#39;t reckon it will reduce the black rubber marks I see all over Perth by one millimeter either.

cheers Warpie

Rogue
02-11-2006, 07:27 PM
So here is the senario.
Your a Joe average good citizen sitting down to watch the christian hour on Sunday morning Telly when outside some individual comes "hooning" down you quiet bit of suburbia. You jump out of you comfortable chair and grab the video camera you have handy and get the perfect shot of the misceivious naughty person for your submition to the local law enforcers.

You forgot you left your version of this on the cammera.
Click (http://www.joecartoon.com/pages/greenfields2_anim)

And since the evidence must be submited unaltered and complete you&#39;d probably feel a right tool.

Also the irony of my avitar is a perfect example of why this probably is a stupid turn for the law to take. The bike, helmet, jacket and gloves are mine but I wasn&#39;t riding when the pic was taken. I was standing else where but wearing blue jeans as well so to the casual/concerned zelot on looker I&#39;m a hoon when it&#39;s a conplete misconception.

Dejavu
02-11-2006, 07:50 PM
So here is the senario.
Your a Joe average good citizen sitting down to watch the christian hour on Sunday morning Telly when outside some individual comes "hooning" down you quiet bit of suburbia. You jump out of you comfortable chair and grab the video camera you have handy and get the perfect shot of the misceivious naughty person for your submition to the local law enforcers.

You forgot you left your version of this on the cammera.
Click (http://www.joecartoon.com/pages/greenfields2_anim)

And since the evidence must be submited unaltered and complete you&#39;d probably feel a right tool.

Also the irony of my avitar is a perfect example of why this probably is a stupid turn for the law to take. The bike, helmet, jacket and gloves are mine but I wasn&#39;t riding when the pic was taken. I was standing else where but wearing blue jeans as well so to the casual/concerned zelot on looker I&#39;m a hoon when it&#39;s a conplete misconception.
[/b]

Shit .. He&#39;s alive.. with a big 8 posts too
Yeah i happen to have the same problem with my avatar too Rogues :blush: Proof beyond reasonable doubt.. looks like Lawyers worth their $$ will get even more wealthy in the near future..

Now how hard would it be to catch a cop car "hoonin" on a tank cam and submitt it to ACC... Under the law now they wont be able to just fob it off?

XSorXpire
02-11-2006, 08:10 PM
The way it was worded on the news it sounded like the person who takes the footage can then take the "hoon" to court to get them convicted of hooning, not to the coppers.
So that would mean that people will ring the cops who will take details and then the dobber will have to get a lawyer and a court date.

This of course could be all incorrect and i may have mis-heard the report.

mguzzi01
02-11-2006, 10:01 PM
do the crime - do the time.........

if they catchya

Foofie Foofie
02-11-2006, 11:53 PM
And to think we had an opportunity to maybe have a say in these laws.

pity
[/b]

Its funny you mention that Jon, when you sit back and look at the grand sceme, the ones that do fuck all , are the ones that want the most.

-J-
03-11-2006, 12:05 AM
Its funny you mention that Jon, when you sit back and look at the grand sceme, the ones that do fuck all , are the ones that want the most.
[/b]

*Still waiting for a form, even though should of got of my ass and did something about it*

but definately agree with you saf. people were given an opportunaty to support someone who wanted to make a difference, and now well......

I stand by my original statement 28 days loss of vehicle, and suspension for first offence. Might seem harsh to some, but will definately make them think twice about doing it again when ma and pa smack their heads in coz ma and pa have to catch a bus coz little johnny do no wrong lost their car.

Foofie Foofie
03-11-2006, 12:11 AM
Whats worse, is when they run, because they dont want that issue ..... so they run, and cause more shit in the long run.

-J-
03-11-2006, 12:18 AM
Whats worse, is when they run, because they dont want that issue ..... so they run, and cause more shit in the long run.
[/b]

Fair call.

However, if they had the attitude that a liscence is a privilage not a right, would their be a need for hoon laws. In my made up mythical world this works a treat, everyone obeys the law, jails are empty, because no crimes are committed, pretty boring, but safe place.

It&#39;s a shame that some of my world and the real world can never meet.

mstriumph
03-11-2006, 09:44 AM
................................
It&#39;s a shame that some of my world and the real world can never meet.
[/b]

"I have a dreeeeeeeaaaaaam .............." ;)

Triple Treat
03-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Now how hard would it be to catch a cop car "hoonin" on a tank cam and submitt it to ACC... Under the law now they wont be able to just fob it off?
[/b]

Great way to spend your days off, just hang around a police station and follow them as they leave... :D

Jonchilds
03-11-2006, 11:35 AM
Another contributor to the problem is that if people want to drag, or do burnouts or race, they&#39;re limited to either Wanneroo or Kwinana on only certain days of the week (or year) to let off steam.

If they want to tighten the laws, they&#39;ll have to make concessions elsewhere to actually allow people to go off and do things affordably and safely.

And -J-, when anyone shows up to a friday night ride, they&#39;re potentially a target for these &#39;hoon&#39; laws, as a whole bunch of bikes taking off quickly would likely be able to justify the confiscation of atleast the front ones, and perhaps the rear trying desperately to keep up.

DRKSIDE
03-11-2006, 11:41 AM
i&#39;ll be in that (the helmet/bike cams)............. could someone organize a group buy?
[/b]
I will definately be interested. If im gonna get dobbed in for hooning then i want to exact a bit of revenge too ;)

snowman95
03-11-2006, 11:55 AM
edit: beaten like a slave

-J-
03-11-2006, 12:20 PM
And -J-, when anyone shows up to a friday night ride, they&#39;re potentially a target for these &#39;hoon&#39; laws, as a whole bunch of bikes taking off quickly would likely be able to justify the confiscation of atleast the front ones, and perhaps the rear trying desperately to keep up.
[/b]

John I never brought in the hoon laws so
http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif are you on about? dude if that is all ya worried about then maybe you should resonsider why you ride. We all know the risks when going on more spirited rides. Maybe you should play http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/jb.gif and ride up the back for once?

Foofie Foofie
03-11-2006, 12:21 PM
Another contributor to the problem is that if people want to drag, or do burnouts or race, they&#39;re limited to either Wanneroo or Kwinana on only certain days of the week (or year) to let off steam.

If they want to tighten the laws, they&#39;ll have to make concessions elsewhere to actually allow people to go off and do things affordably and safely.
[/b]

I agree 100%. First post to do so .. haha.

Seroiusly, this is the issue ive been hammering for a long time. I was very active in the street racing scene before motorplex, all the way from the early 90&#39;s ... id race 2 days a week minimum, and when motorplex opened up, it allmost single handedly killed street racing.

However, its too few and too far between ....

Not only arent the govt doing anything .... they just pulled out of sponsorship at Motorplex this season (Quit). And as predicted, prices have gone up.

Desmo
03-11-2006, 12:23 PM
John I never brought in the hoon laws so
http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif are you on about? dude if that is all ya worried about then maybe you should resonsider why you ride. We all know the risks when going on more spirited rides. Maybe you should play http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/jb.gif and ride up the back for once?
[/b]

Maybe he should reconsider what he rides too.
You&#39;ll never get done for hooning on a Hyo.

-J-
03-11-2006, 12:31 PM
Maybe he should reconsider what he rides too.
You&#39;ll never get done for hooning on a Hyo.
[/b]


I&#39;ve re read everything I have said in this thread and I am still baffelled as to where that comment directed to me came from.

*goes off and reads again*

M_Green
03-11-2006, 11:47 PM
I&#39;ve re read everything I have said in this thread and I am still baffelled as to where that comment directed to me came from.

*goes off and reads again*
[/b]

You don&#39;t need a reason to hyo bash.... :P

-J-
04-11-2006, 12:52 PM
You don&#39;t need a reason to hyo bash.... :P
[/b]


All in for Hyo bashing. If only I owned one then I could finally have a use for my hammer ;)

sucka
05-11-2006, 01:13 PM
do the crime - do the time.........
[/b]

I agree 100%.

Too many people don&#39;t have the intelligence to understand there is a time and a place for such behaviour. And its not in peak hour traffic, sideways doing 80 clicks in school zone.
If it takes losing their vehicle for 28 days for someone to work that out then so be it.

As Jeremy stated some road users see a drivers license as a right not a privilege, hence some people may need to learn the hard way.




Now, let the flaming begin -_-

Eukanuba
05-11-2006, 05:39 PM
As Jeremy stated some road users see a drivers license as a right not a privilege, hence some people may need to learn the hard way.
Now, let the flaming begin -_-
[/b]

You can only loose your licence if they catch you bruvva :whistling:

Ride on baby ! :D

sucka
05-11-2006, 07:13 PM
You can only loose your licence if they catch you bruvva :whistling:

Ride on baby ! :D
[/b]


Yep, this is true. But my advice is not to have a go on your 250, unless you get a kick out of the idea of sharing a jail cell with some burly bloke who calls himself Bubba ;)

Semi
05-11-2006, 09:49 PM
The govt. brings in these sorts of laws, to confiscate peoples bikes and cars and etc, and then its the police that have to deal with the shit it brings, like people running because they dont want their car impounded, etc. and then they cop (no pun intended) abuse for not abandoning the chase, etc. Stupid legislation that isnt gonna save anyone. They need to promote better road sense, and better roads.

Also, the bit i dont get is impounding peoples cars for doing a burnout. They claim that the laws are there to save lives, but i dont think ive ever heard of someone getting killed from dropping a skid

Warp Speed
05-11-2006, 10:24 PM
;) Geezus you cowboys want me to saddle up the old hobby horse don&#39;t you???

The more Draconian the laws are - the more desparate actions ordinary people will take to avoid being caught.

Good example is the old US of A - over there police chases are damn well frightening. If you got caught you might get 20 years jail in some states. You would pass Rossi on the inside of a blind hairpin sliding on bald tyres to get away.

In other words the tougher the penaltys the less chance there is you would stop. This puts EVERYONE anywhere near you at high risk.

Answer is linked compulsory insurance to vehicle registration. Every traffic infringement results in higher yearly insurance premiums. If you can&#39;t afford the insurance you can&#39;t register the vehicle. In other words bad riders/drivers are priced off the road.

Obviously then driving unlicensed means you haven&#39;t got any rego plates or you stole them - either way you probably deseve a good shafting.

You will never stop the serious offenders no matter what laws you come up with

Cheers Warpy

Billywhizz
06-11-2006, 06:55 AM
Latest Stats

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21...976-948,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,20687976-948,00.html)

Poll Results
Thanks for voting, here are the results so far:
Would you film a hoon?
Yes
22% (143 votes)
No
77% (495 votes)
Total votes
Total of 638 votes

sucka
06-11-2006, 07:38 AM
Also, the bit i dont get is impounding peoples cars for doing a burnout. They claim that the laws are there to save lives, but i dont think ive ever heard of someone getting killed from dropping a skid
[/b]

Its cause they do one wheeled open diff burnouts, and everyone knows thats just a criminal waste of rubber :P

g0zer
06-11-2006, 09:17 AM
Also, the bit i dont get is impounding peoples cars for doing a burnout. They claim that the laws are there to save lives, but i dont think ive ever heard of someone getting killed from dropping a skid
[/b]

very true, a burnout is more disturbing the peace/undue excessive noise category. In this law you can clearly see that the laws are written in response to scientific studies and surveys- not.

When the laws are written by people who see laying down some rubber at the lights as a crime worthy of the same punishment as doing 100km/h on a suburban street its not hard to see why they are so ineffective.

Foofie Foofie
06-11-2006, 10:57 AM
In other words the tougher the penaltys the less chance there is you would stop. This puts EVERYONE anywhere near you at high risk.
[/b]

Perfection mate.

Thats exactly what happens. BUT by public perception, your seen to have done something about "the problem".

Pkunk
06-11-2006, 11:28 AM
In other words the tougher the penaltys the less chance there is you would stop. This puts EVERYONE anywhere near you at high risk.

[/b]

exactly why i thought this crap about automatic license loss and hoon law enacting on people caught going over 45km/h

granted they should be punished but if you are going 45 over and stop... you lose your license... if you run and get caught... you lose your license

so why not risk running hey?

kellz
06-11-2006, 01:51 PM
this is true.

though i wouldnt run, i got done 35 over lost my licence, had the chance to run but didnt, to risky and dangerous, im not that good a driver..

brendon_zx
06-11-2006, 07:33 PM
Answer is linked compulsory insurance to vehicle registration. Every traffic infringement results in higher yearly insurance premiums. If you can&#39;t afford the insurance you can&#39;t register the vehicle. In other words bad riders/drivers are priced off the road.

You will never stop the serious offenders no matter what laws you come up with

Cheers Warpy
[/b]

I get what your saying but wouldn&#39;t there still be a few that could afford it and then see it as a reason to keep doing stupid stuff because they can afford the insurance..

ByfordBlade
06-11-2006, 08:20 PM
Also, the bit i dont get is impounding peoples cars for doing a burnout. They claim that the laws are there to save lives, but i dont think ive ever heard of someone getting killed from dropping a skid
[/b]

I&#39;ll argue that one as 7 years ago when we were one of two houses in a new subdivision the young fella from the other house decided to give his Escort a bit of a fang around a corner, ran onto a vacant block, rolled the car and broke his neck.

At the moment we have a young bloke across the road who has recently bought an XR6 ute and frequently does burnouts and fishies up the street. A chat with him and his parents has done absolutely nothing, infact it&#39;s probably got worse since I chatted him. Another neighbour has had a gutfull and is onto the police at least once a week and is more than happy to go to court and to be honest I&#39;ll buy him a beer if he does go through with it.

As has been said so often before - there&#39;s a time and a place. Tell me one good reason why I should have to put up with the road in front of my house looking crap, the noise in the middle of the night and my kids too scared to go out the front because even a 7 year old can see when a car is on the verge of losing control. We are 2 minutes away from empty country roads where he can do as many burnouts as he likes without effecting anyone but he chooses to do it in a residential street. When he gets nailed I hope his licence goes for 6 months and he learns from it. If I got caught popping a wheely in my or any persons residential street I would cop it on the chin - won&#39;t happen though as my fun on a bike or in a car gets done without having to piss other people off.

Uncle Ho
06-11-2006, 08:36 PM
Answer is linked compulsory insurance to vehicle registration. Every traffic infringement results in higher yearly insurance premiums. If you can&#39;t afford the insurance you can&#39;t register the vehicle. In other words bad riders/drivers are priced off the road.
[/b]

I believe that this is technically already the case.... if you read the insurance application carefully you have an obligation to complete with any or all information that may or may not affect their decision to insure you. If you say that you have no infringements and have never had any fines, have an accident, lodge a claim and they find you had previously had say a speeding fine, they are within their rights to refuse to cover the accident or at best cover only part.... In some instances it only affects your excess, but in others it affects the premium.

Compulsery insurance would put many riders with more powerfull bikes off the road... regardless of their behavour (guys who can only affort third party property) so perhaps link to compulsery third party that is part of the rego.....

g0zer
06-11-2006, 08:38 PM
well, i never meant that doing a burnout cant also be reckless/dangerous driving at the same time. What i was saying is that a burnout isnt necessarily reckless/dangerous driving.

Uncle Ho
06-11-2006, 08:40 PM
All in for Hyo bashing. If only I owned one then I could finally have a use for my hammer ;)
[/b]

Yeh... your other bike :lol: :lol: :lol:

Warp Speed
06-11-2006, 08:44 PM
As has been said so often before - there&#39;s a time and a place. Tell me one good reason why I should have to put up with the road in front of my house looking crap, the noise in the middle of the night and my kids too scared to go out the front because even a 7 year old can see when a car is on the verge of losing control. We are 2 minutes away from empty country roads where he can do as many burnouts as he likes without effecting anyone but he chooses to do it in a residential street. When he gets nailed I hope his licence goes for 6 months and he learns from it. If I got caught popping a wheely in my or any persons residential street I would cop it on the chin - won&#39;t happen though as my fun on a bike or in a car gets done without having to piss other people off.
[/b]

Time & Place is not your own &#39;hood. Especially when there are country roads nearby.

As they say - you are stuck with your neighbours - good or bad - you can only hope he does the same shit somewhere else and gets busted

My attitude is go out there and cheer them on - ego usually exceeds skill and they crash ;) reverse psychology works - how could Sigmund Freud be wrong.

Meantime get the Pom Poms and streamers ready for Juniors next wheelie fest ;)

Hope this helps

Cheers Warpy

ByfordBlade
06-11-2006, 09:02 PM
Meantime get the Pom Poms and streamers ready for Juniors next wheelie fest ;)
[/b]
I was thinking of something a little harder than pom poms :D

I think back to the shit I used to do in my first car and understand that boys will be boys, but most of us get the message when we are told to play somewhere else due to it pissing someone off and our fun affecting their right to enjoy a quiet street, etc. I suppose in the eyes of the law you can&#39;t have it both ways and a lot of the anti-hoon stuff is more to do with the shits it gives the average person than any safety benefit. Like most good things, the minority fuck it up for the majority.

sucka
06-11-2006, 09:12 PM
At the moment we have a young bloke across the road who has recently bought an XR6 ute and frequently does burnouts and fishies up the street. A chat with him and his parents has done absolutely nothing, infact it&#39;s probably got worse since I chatted him. Another neighbour has had a gutfull and is onto the police at least once a week and is more than happy to go to court and to be honest I&#39;ll buy him a beer if he does go through with it.

As has been said so often before - there&#39;s a time and a place. Tell me one good reason why I should have to put up with the road in front of my house looking crap, the noise in the middle of the night and my kids too scared to go out the front because even a 7 year old can see when a car is on the verge of losing control. We are 2 minutes away from empty country roads where he can do as many burnouts as he likes without effecting anyone but he chooses to do it in a residential street. When he gets nailed I hope his licence goes for 6 months and he learns from it. If I got caught popping a wheely in my or any persons residential street I would cop it on the chin - won&#39;t happen though as my fun on a bike or in a car gets done without having to piss other people off.
[/b]

Perfect candidate for anti-hoon legislation. I hope your neighbour gets him.
Walking everywhere for a while might teach the naughty little boy some manners :P

g0zer
06-11-2006, 09:21 PM
you could leave a nice mad max in his driveway haha :)

Para045
07-11-2006, 02:43 AM
I agree 100%.

Too many people don&#39;t have the intelligence to understand there is a time and a place for such behaviour. And its not in peak hour traffic, sideways doing 80 clicks in school zone.
If it takes losing their vehicle for 28 days for someone to work that out then so be it.

As Jeremy stated some road users see a drivers license as a right not a privilege, hence some people may need to learn the hard way.
Now, let the flaming begin -_-
[/b]



So assuming my young son is on his way to the shops goes around a corner a bit fast in the wet, fishtails but saves it only to have Plod ( or for fuck sake some tosser with a camera phone ) see him and my work vehicle is impounded for 28 days. I am a sub contractor so I cannot work without my vehicle so I lose my jobs and end up on the dole and my family is on the street, way to go :down: . If they want to punish the offender then well and good but this has the potential to punish innocent parties not just the perpertrators, that is the insidious thing with this sort of legislation just like the confiscation laws in relation to drugs, I don&#39;t condone drug dealing at all but there are cases at the moment where the wife and part owner of a house has had it seized because her other half happened to be dealing drugs . Also If I am not mistaken the police cannot pursue once the speed goes over 160kmh so impound for 45kmh over in 110 kmh zone is 155kmh - might as well go that extra 10 and run :huh: Also if they are talking about using witnes statements then the people better have a water tight case because if it were me i would be slapping them with a civil suit straight away for defamation, see whether they are willing to go the whole hog then and spend a lot of their time and money in court :unsure: . WTF I thought the inquisition finished in the 15 th century :verymad: BTW I don&#39;t have a son that is old enough to drive yet and am no longer a subi but playing devils advocate this is where shit like this can lead

Para045
07-11-2006, 02:59 AM
So here is the senario.
Your a Joe average good citizen sitting down to watch the christian hour on Sunday morning Telly when outside some individual comes "hooning" down you quiet bit of suburbia. You jump out of you comfortable chair and grab the video camera you have handy and get the perfect shot of the misceivious naughty person for your submition to the local law enforcers.

You forgot you left your version of this on the cammera.
Click (http://www.joecartoon.com/pages/greenfields2_anim)

And since the evidence must be submited unaltered and complete you&#39;d probably feel a right tool.

Also the irony of my avitar is a perfect example of why this probably is a stupid turn for the law to take. The bike, helmet, jacket and gloves are mine but I wasn&#39;t riding when the pic was taken. I was standing else where but wearing blue jeans as well so to the casual/concerned zelot on looker I&#39;m a hoon when it&#39;s a conplete misconception.
[/b]

This is the other thing - they still have to prove it was you who was driving :rolleyes: espescially if the car is a family car or owned by a business, now assuming joe apprentice is driving the work ute back from a job and some tosser takes a pic of him from behind fishtailing the ute in the wet - they still have to prove who was driving, or are they going to confiscate company cars too - they would be heading for a big shit fight there :whistling:

sucka
07-11-2006, 07:11 AM
Also if they are talking about using witnes statements then the people better have a water tight case because if it were me i would be slapping them with a civil suit straight away for defamation, see whether they are willing to go the whole hog then and spend a lot of their time and money in court
[/b]

Well, its fucked up attitudes like this that give us draconian laws in the first place. Bog down the courts with blackmail style counter claims because you got caught doing the wrong thing by your peers but just can&#39;t take it one the chin, nice :down:
As has been said repeatly in this thread do the crime do the time.

As for your hypothetical son story. If he drives too fast around the corner in the wet and loses control in your car, gets caught by the police and has your car impounded, it&#39;s the laws fault not your son&#39;s???

If your son loses control of a vehicle around a corner just because it is wet (and there are no other circumstances such as a diesel spill or bald tyres) he is either an incompetent driver or is going too fast (hooning).

As for proving who was the driver of an offending vehicle that is is now up to the owner (Owner onus laws).
Once again because a few spineless individuals couldn&#39;t take it on the chin and snuck out through the nearest legal loophole, we all have to deal with yet another draconian law....

Evil_Homer
07-11-2006, 07:33 AM
Well, its fucked up attitudes like this that give us draconian laws in the first place. Bog down the courts with blackmail style counter claims because you got caught doing the wrong thing by your peers but just can&#39;t take it one the chin, nice :down:
As has been said repeatly in this thread do the crime do the time.

As for your hypothetical son story. If he drives too fast around the corner in the wet and loses control in your car, gets caught by the police and has your car impounded, it&#39;s the laws fault not your son&#39;s???

If your son loses control of a vehicle around a corner just because it is wet (and there are no other circumstances such as a diesel spill or bald tyres) he is either an incompetent driver or is going too fast (hooning).

As for proving who was the driver of an offending vehicle that is is now up to the owner (Owner onus laws).
Once again because a few spineless individuals couldn&#39;t take it on the chin and snuck out through the nearest legal loophole, we all have to deal with yet another draconian law....
[/b]
i thought owner onus laws were there so they could ass rape motorcyclists
bend over boys and pull down your pants ( you can leave your helmet on if you like )

sucka
07-11-2006, 08:09 AM
i thought owner onus laws were there so they could ass rape motorcyclists
bend over boys and pull down your pants ( you can leave your helmet on if you like )
[/b]

Hehe without lube.

Nah it was brought in mainly cause businesses that run fleet vehicles were racking up speeding fines, but nobody was paying when the driver couldn&#39;t be identified, ie person was not identifable in photo and nobody was owning up to driving at the time of the offence.
Now its the registered owner who cops it up the arse if the culprit doesn&#39;t put their hand up.

Either way the gov gets paid.

-J-
07-11-2006, 03:25 PM
Owner onus was brought in because it was alot easier to say "I dont know who was driving" if they were unidentfiable. NOw if you cant identify who was driving/riding u get stuck with the fine. It&#39;s appears to be designed to dob in ya mates. Used to be failing to give the driver and it was a $600 fine/no points, now its the owners problem.

shmoo
16-11-2006, 09:20 AM
**carried on from other thread on same topic**



I have a sneaky feeling that it is going to be difficult to actually get a conviction based only on someones home video or pictures. These types of things are criminal offences so there is a strong burden of proof on the presecutors to prove beyond &#39;reasonable doubt&#39;.

Bottom line...i think these laws are more about making people think they are always being watched and therefore they better act responsibly, rather than actually having much to back them up. I reckon nothing much will actually come from these laws other than to tie up the courts with people trying to bring actions against their "hoon" neighbours with crappy home video as the only evidence.

Desmo
16-11-2006, 09:25 AM
So what happens if they impound the R1 for 28 days?
I go home and jump on the RGV?
Sounds sensible to me.

Gryphen
16-11-2006, 02:50 PM
imagine trying to get a rego number from a polaroid of a bike going past, say loungeroom to road type distance..... "yes Sir we can see its a motorbike... but do you have any idea of the colour?"

Evil_Homer
16-11-2006, 07:12 PM
im totaly confused how a vehicle can be impounded by the police without you actualy being found guilty of a crime "hooning".
with a traffic offence you can fight it in court and be found not guilty, so your not really guilty of the offence unless you pay the fine or the judge finds you guilty.
so how can they impound your vehicle without you going to court.
what if you want to fight the charge can they still impound your bike?
and if you are found not guilty by a court what will happen then, do they compensate you for taking away your bike/car loss of income, loss of mobility, train fares, blah blah blah
:huh: :unsure: :huh:

Para045
16-11-2006, 10:47 PM
im totaly confused how a vehicle can be impounded by the police without you actualy being found guilty of a crime "hooning".
with a traffic offence you can fight it in court and be found not guilty, so your not really guilty of the offence unless you pay the fine or the judge finds you guilty.
so how can they impound your vehicle without you going to court.
what if you want to fight the charge can they still impound your bike?
and if you are found not guilty by a court what will happen then, do they compensate you for taking away your bike/car loss of income, loss of mobility, train fares, blah blah blah
:huh: :unsure: :huh:
[/b]


Exactly my point - they are taking away your presumption of innocence before the law and now want to do so on heresay evidence, that as some have said can be altered by photochopping, because these sort off fucked up laws mean that you have to prove you are innocent not them prove you are guilty which means they get there quota&#39;s and revenue without doing the work to prove that you are guilty in the first place. And Sucka as for suing for defamation fuckin oath I will be onto that real quick unless some prick can prove 100% what they are saying is true and has the "evidence to prove it", and as far as my "hypothetical son story" with the seriously fucked roads that we have all over the place, including the diesel and other shit ( check my thread regarding bluemetal all over the roads in Ellenbrook )left on the road it is not hard to get a car ( utes in particular ) with good tyres etc to slide even at low speeds. I for one have had the rear end break loose years ago going round a tight roundabout at 30kmh with new tyres so just because you have a temprary loss of control it does not make you a hoon any more than riding a riding a H/D M/C makes you an outlaw motorcycle gang member :no: BTW we have these "draconian" laws because we have governments that are trying to maximize their revenue and don&#39;t like the fact that they lose it because of badly written laws, they would rather change the rules to put any chance of getting justice out of reach of joe average purely because of the fact that it will cost people too much to fight it :angry:

Semi
17-11-2006, 02:47 AM
Thats exactly what i hate about these new laws, it is actually pretty easy to get a loss of traction at some point or another, and then you might get yourself a huge fine or your car impounded. Losing traction from a standing start is pretty unlikely to kill or hurt anyone. While there is cause for concern from people that have just seen the fast and the furious- tokyo drift and decide to try to go sideways around every corner, theres bound to be heaps of people that have genuinely lost it accidentally. When i first got my (car) licence, i lost traction a few times in the wet, and altough it was a little scary, i certainly learned a little from it. You cant excpect someone thats just got their license and has done sweet FA driving in the wet to be able to adequately judge these sorts of things, theres always gonna be new drivers who accidentally lose traction, and they dont deserve to have their cars impounded

Gryphen
17-11-2006, 07:47 AM
Again its the problem with blanket laws, its not like a police officer sees what happens and can make a judgement of what actually happened.

As with the example of losing traction as you take off, theres a major difference between a little squeal as your tyres slip to doing a full on smoker right across the intersection.

But thats what you get from a society that was once based on fairness and has now moved to specifically targetting minorities. Every year we lose more and more individual rights, and the restrictions close in around everybody, but like all good sheep most people just accept it.

shrike
17-11-2006, 07:50 AM
yup.

Like I was saying to Kel last night - my SUV NEEDS to be put in 4wd mode in the wet or it&#39;ll light up the rears when taking off from a green light. And this is a DIESEL. But people will look at that and go "hoon"

Yeah, ok, I may do so, but not in that thing in the wet. Sand and gravel only. Wet is too scary (ask Daise)

Madkat
17-11-2006, 10:36 AM
Well, its fucked up attitudes like this that give us draconian laws in the first place. Bog down the courts with blackmail style counter claims because you got caught doing the wrong thing by your peers but just can&#39;t take it one the chin, nice :down:
As has been said repeatly in this thread do the crime do the time.

As for your hypothetical son story. If he drives too fast around the corner in the wet and loses control in your car, gets caught by the police and has your car impounded, it&#39;s the laws fault not your son&#39;s???

If your son loses control of a vehicle around a corner just because it is wet (and there are no other circumstances such as a diesel spill or bald tyres) he is either an incompetent driver or is going too fast (hooning).

As for proving who was the driver of an offending vehicle that is is now up to the owner (Owner onus laws).
Once again because a few spineless individuals couldn&#39;t take it on the chin and snuck out through the nearest legal loophole, we all have to deal with yet another draconian law....
[/b]

Are you for real, Like NO SHIT For real..

I&#39;ve said it before and i&#39;ll say it again.. Sometimes speeding is just speeding it&#39;s not hooning or street racing or anything else..

as for loosing it round a corner... sometimes that happeneds... like today on my way to work i went round a corner on my bike... draged the rear break as i hit the turn and it locked up slid out a little before i relesed the brake and kept riding... SHIT HAPPENEDS... i should not be brandad a hoon because the goverment to too fucked up to take the money that they get and put it into makeing our roads better so shit like that doesn&#39;t happen...