PDA

View Full Version : Mac OS X beats Windows



Nath
17-04-2009, 10:32 AM
Overall, though, Mac OS X beats Windows. There, I've said it. And lightning hasn't struck me yet.

Living on Air: A Windows guru spends two weeks with a Mac (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131558)

Nuff said.

lee
17-04-2009, 10:37 AM
If mac was better, why does everyone use windows?

MYTH DISPELLED.

Nath
17-04-2009, 10:39 AM
A large proportion of the human race is stupid, therefore should not be used as a gauge.

Bendito
17-04-2009, 10:43 AM
But some dude named Preston should be? :huh:

lee
17-04-2009, 10:43 AM
No seriously. Mac OSX is gay. It works as a desktop. It's a faggot in an enterprise environment.

Nath
17-04-2009, 10:44 AM
No seriously. Mac OSX is gay. It works as a desktop. It's a faggot in an enterprise environment.


Agreed.

But only because you are trying to make it work in a mixed environment.

lee
17-04-2009, 10:48 AM
How dare people use other platforms :angry:

It's diluting our appleness :mad:

Professor Redfern
17-04-2009, 10:52 AM
No seriously. Mac OSX is gay. It works as a desktop. It's a faggot in an enterprise environment.

All my programmers use Mac.

rayray
17-04-2009, 10:53 AM
and all real music productions studios use mac :)

Satan1
17-04-2009, 10:53 AM
All my programmers use Mac.

That settles it.

/thread.

lee
17-04-2009, 10:54 AM
All my programmers use Mac.

I could speculate on why that is, you know.

Sunshine & F'n Rainbows
17-04-2009, 10:56 AM
OSX is fabulous in an environment where you're pandering to it's oddities to keep arty types happy.

Otherwise, it's been nothing but a need fucking bastard child in every corporate environment I've been forced to interact with it in.

T-roy
17-04-2009, 10:59 AM
Mac works like a calculator...

Windows works like a hammer...

Linux works like a human...

Zook SV
17-04-2009, 10:59 AM
If mac was better, why does everyone use windows?

MYTH DISPELLED.

In Australia more people have CommonWhores than Porsches this certainly indicates that GMH makes much better cars hey!! Stupid argument......

By a enterprise environment do you mean a workplace? In a workplace you only need a dumb headless workstation that can do a little wordprocessing and access a database your certainly don't need the sophistication associated with modern computers (windows or Mac) for most occasions the modern PC is simply overkill.

SV

Nath
17-04-2009, 11:00 AM
Not sure how it turned into a corporate environment discussion..

I've never had any problems integrating into a corporate environment that was not locked into some stupid proprietary hardware/software.

apples
17-04-2009, 11:01 AM
Anyone got any thoughts on how Windows 7 stacks-up? Running the beta at the moment and will be loading it on the new Dell if it ever gets here.

Has some nice "Mac-ish" UI bits and pieces (from a non Mac fanboi perspective), I quite like the interface and asthetics but haven't tried anything too technical with it.

Professor Redfern
17-04-2009, 11:06 AM
I could speculate on why that is, you know.

You could but it would just be speculation and it wouldn't be worth shit cos you dont have a clue about the situation.

All Im saying is that there are plenty of programmers who use Mac.

Think about this awesome logic, the programmers at Microsoft use windows to develop the new windows and they keep making shit computers, the programmers at apple use mac and they make better computers.

Nath
17-04-2009, 11:06 AM
Anyone got any thoughts on how Windows 7 stacks-up?.


Guys at work are running it, apparently its much nicer, less intrusive, better support (hardware and software) and faster when compared to Vista.

Not run it myself though, I hope its as improved as they say.

lee
17-04-2009, 11:18 AM
You could but it would just be speculation and it wouldn't be worth shit cos you dont have a clue about the situation.

But if I'm bigger than them, they'll back down, right? ^_^

Zook SV
17-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Guys at work are running it, apparently its much nicer, less intrusive, better support (hardware and software) and faster when compared to Vista.

Be good if Micro$oft finally get it right after 28 years. They bought QuickandDirtyDos back in 1981 and licensed it to IBM as their own product for the first PC DOS.

SV

Professor Redfern
17-04-2009, 11:21 AM
But if I'm bigger than them, they'll back down, right? ^_^

Way to go way off topic. Awesome stuff.

faceplant
17-04-2009, 11:23 AM
i love this subject it always get nerds fighting like kids over candy :)

heres my 2c

I've been in IT for 12 years and I can safely say not one OS enterprise or otherwise from microshit has been anything but a liability to the safety of the information age.
Go to cert.org and compare the vulnerabilities in any windows platform to that of OSX.


OSX is simple, it works and is FAR FAR FAR more secure, stable and feature rich than bill gates utterly shite offerings.

OSX supports RAID5 natively, shitdows can but microshite doesn't want you too so disables it.
Patches that don't make your copy of OS die everytime you update.. All hail genunie "nazi" advantage.

Applications that install and uninstall without filling you computer with utter cr@p you dont need. How many viruses, worms and trojans have i had on my macs... 0. i cant tell you how many enterprise environments have had major ooutbreaks that have crippled an organisation in no time at all.

How many times have i had to rebuild my mac... 0 including OS upgrades..
How many times have i had to rebuild mine and other peoples sh!tdows installs... more than I would like to try and count.


There is nothing I cant do on a shitdows install that i cant already do on OSX but better... Media, Graphics, Documetation, Audio all superior and far easier.

lee
17-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Way to go way off topic. Awesome stuff.

I have my reasons. I still don't get your point with programing though? Of course they'll do it, they're just BSD machines with some eye candy. That's kinda what I'm getting at here. If you use them on your own, or with minimal contact to other devices, yeah coo.

If you try and integrate them into anything, they whinge and bitch and drop out and moan and generally fuck everyone off. They're great for single user machines.

lee
17-04-2009, 11:26 AM
:blah:

I have examples that contradict just about every one of your points.

Deej
17-04-2009, 11:27 AM
A large proportion of the human race is stupid, therefore should not be used as a gauge.

Snapshot of PSB Users Operating Systems.


http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/win.pngWindows 88.8 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/mac.pngMacintosh7.4 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/linux.pngLinux 2.7 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/unknown.pngUnknown 0.8 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/symbian.pngSymbian OS (http://www.symbian.com/) 0.1 %

Satan1
17-04-2009, 11:28 AM
Deej you broke it :cray:

T-roy
17-04-2009, 11:29 AM
Snapshot of PSB Users Operating Systems.


Operating Systems Hits Percenthttp://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/win.png
Windows 1225803388.8%
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/mac.pngMacintosh 10274397.4 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/linux.pngLinux 3743892.7 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/unknown.pngUnknown 1212930.8 %
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com:2082/images/awstats/os/symbian.pngSymbian OS (http://www.symbian.com/) 139190.1 %

fixed

edit Beaten

Deej
17-04-2009, 11:34 AM
No point in bucking the trend just to be different which I honestly believe that most Mac users do. “Ohh look at me I must know more about pewters than anyone else and I must be l33tox cos I use a Mac and you are just a lemming for using a PC”.

IMO, If English is the most commonly spoken language on the planet then given the choice….why not learn how to speak English? I mean… its not like you are going to learn Swahili just because it may actually be a faster and more efficient method of communicating?

But you know… I have an open mind so I actually bought my first Mac the other day to see what the fuss is about. I bought it for my mother to use for basic home computing stuff. It was DOA.

lee
17-04-2009, 11:34 AM
But you know… I have an open mind so I actually bought my first Mac the other day to see what the fuss is about. I bought it for my mother to use for basic home computing stuff. It was DOA.

But didn't you just feel more arty, and creative whilst trying to turn it on? :D

Deej
17-04-2009, 11:53 AM
But didn't you just feel more arty, and creative whilst trying to turn it on? :D

Ohh yeh... the reach around action to press the button was a turn on I must say! Shame it didnt actually start.

faceplant
17-04-2009, 11:55 AM
I have examples that contradict just about every one of your points.

No doubt chap, theres examples out there that contradict darwinism and evolution, that doesn't stop it being true.

Hey look this is only my experience and opinion. Some people jack off at the mear sight of Bill Gates others At Steve Jobs. Who gives a f*ck. If it does what you need it to do, who cares who's right or wrong. :):):):cool::cool:

I am right though :lol::lol:

mcmurray
17-04-2009, 12:04 PM
If mac was better, why does everyone use windows?

MYTH DISPELLED.

Software availability would play a big part I reckon.

Teedo
17-04-2009, 12:05 PM
Who really cares whats better? Personal choice, some people like kwaka's better and some hondas.

If 90% of the population ran mac's instead of windows then no doubt windows would be alot safer and less of a security threat, I mean why develope a virus that can affect 7% of the population when you can do it for 90%?

I want a mac to do my audio production on and for a change of windows.

Oring
17-04-2009, 01:04 PM
I built a twin 22inch screen QUAD XP PC this year for $1800 AUD, includes GST.
It runs rings around the flash looking couple year old OSX $10,000 mac in the office.

I usually have FLASHCS3, illustratorCS3, PhotoshopCS3, DreamweaverCS3 plus browsers and windows open all over the place no problems.

On my home one the 3 LCD screened over clocked 3.3 GIG QUAD PC can open a multilayered 950meg photoshop file in about 15 seconds.

I can have my HD NLE EDITING program rendering out files from the timeline while still doing graphics in CS3 at the same time. In fact my PC NLE runs rings around Final Cut Pro when it comes to real time HD multiformat editing, and colour correction.

MACS will work off the shelf, just plug them in, but I just cannot work with them although I am forced when checking programs I make on them.

PC's you have to fine tune them and take all the crap off they put on them but have a huge selection of software to choose form.
As for having to reinstall systems due to virus, software, bug problems...well just mirror image your system drive and never never save anything to the C:drive.....easy...

Different strokes for different blokes.......

padfoot
17-04-2009, 01:14 PM
oring... Let me get this straight...
You built a computer now that runs rings around one thats a couple of years old?
Thats it, macs must suck. I'm selling mine when i get home now. Thanks for enlightening me :)
Posted via Mobile Device

speed3
17-04-2009, 01:16 PM
You lot always make me laugh. Its like when religous types argue over who has the better imaginary friend.

Nath
17-04-2009, 01:22 PM
Ohhh... now we are talking about hardware... awesome.. :)



Lets see your dell do this;



When a Turkish Airways Flight crashed in Amsterdam earlier this year (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7909683.stm), killing nine people and injuring 121 others, there was one survivor that makes a pretty convincing case for unibody Airline construction: Passenger Sefer Baris’ MacBook Air.
Sefer’s friend Bulent tells us:
“He is working for documentary project in Turkey. A couple years ago he didn’t like Apple, but when he has seen my MacBook, last year he bought this MacBook Air. He is now an appleboy http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36911/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/icon_smile.gif
He was sitting on the chair in the front [of the airplane]. Seat number seven. (3-4 chairs from the business class). He has his MacBook Air with him, he was watching a movie. When the plane began to land, he closed his MacBook Air, and put it in the skin. A couple of minutes [later] there was the crash.”


http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36912/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/macbook_air_crash_01.jpg



http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36913/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/macbook_air_crash_03.jpg

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36914/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/macbook_air_crash_06.jpg

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36915/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/macbook_air_crash_05.jpg

Best quote..


Above: Hmm… from certain angles, it still looks OK, kind of like Paris Hilton.

richie_b
17-04-2009, 01:38 PM
Macs can and do work in a corporate environment but it's hard to find non windows admins I'd say. Most people who hate macs have never used one for a reasonable amount of time.

I've never had a problem with mine at work.

shmoo
17-04-2009, 02:01 PM
I bought it for my mother to use for basic home computing stuff. It was DOA.
Your doing it wrong.

As i understand it, the purpose of a Mac is so you can sit at a cafe pretending you are an accomplished author and discussing your Mac with other accomplished authors.

Slice
17-04-2009, 02:15 PM
here is why mac wins; bought a MBP for uni at the beginning of last year and I use it everyday. Still get 4 hours of net surfing or word proc out of the battery, has frozen once in the last year and half or so whereas my PC desktop freezes up more than weekly even after full clean wipe re-installs.

The other reason; my wife. She was disappointed when I bought a mac cos she didn't want to use it. here laptop is now broke and after using mine for a month she now wants a macbook. Windows is too cumbersome, too slow and too complicated and while for hardcore techies it may have a few advantages OSX is superior for everyday use.

Jedi
17-04-2009, 02:27 PM
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36918/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/macvspcbikepj2.jpg

The more I learn about computers, the more I realise that so far nobody has got it right.

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:30 PM
That is possibly the shitest comparison I have ever seen, I wish i could infract you for it.

richie_b
17-04-2009, 02:30 PM
if that pic was true, the ninja would have an engine from the 80s in it.

merctom
17-04-2009, 02:36 PM
if that pic was true, the ninja would have an engine from the 80s in it.


.... its not a 250

mac are nice (currently have 2 old ones) - bottom range desktops are too expensive for what they are though.

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:38 PM
mac are nice (currently have 2 old ones) - bottom range desktops are too expensive for what they are though.


$1000 for a C2D, decent HDD, 2GB ram and enough software to do everything a standard user would want (and more) seems pretty fair to me.

merctom
17-04-2009, 02:42 PM
Mac mini - Apple Store (Australia) (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini?mco=MTM1NjI)

Customize Your System (http://www.austin.net.au/COMPUTERS/Desktops/CustomizeYourSystem/tabid/128/ProductCode/SYS-AT-AUSPECIA/Default.aspx)

yes the form factor isnt the same - someone wanting a cheap system for basic net/home use isnt going to be worried about that.

Professor Redfern
17-04-2009, 02:43 PM
Can any gurus explain to me why exactly mac cant be loaded onto a PC?

What is the specific technical reason?

Satan1
17-04-2009, 02:45 PM
Can any gurus explain to me why exactly mac cant be loaded onto a PC?

What is the specific technical reason?

It can.

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:46 PM
yes the form factor isnt the same - someone wanting a cheap system for basic net/home use isnt going to be worried about that.

I can give you heaps of examples with no OS, wireless, bluetooth, included software that are a little bit cheaper.. cares..

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:47 PM
What is the specific technical reason?


Licensing.

Professor Redfern
17-04-2009, 02:47 PM
It can.

What happens does it run well?

T-roy
17-04-2009, 02:48 PM
Can any gurus explain to me why exactly mac cant be loaded onto a PC?

What is the specific technical reason?

Mac has hardware issues because they are anal about installing it on computers other than macs.

I think it also uses a different boot system.
not to sure about the boot thing though.

There are utility to get around it

faceplant
17-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Can any gurus explain to me why exactly mac cant be loaded onto a PC?

What is the specific technical reason?




It can now they are called hacintosh's. Since apple moved to Intel proc's it's been possible. I'm dual booting mine onto OSX leopard and XP. It is completely in breach of apples policy though but it is pretty easy to do. Belive me it's quicker to intall OSX than windows on a PC.

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:50 PM
What happens does it run well?

Runs exactly the same, hardware is basically identical.

Satan1
17-04-2009, 02:50 PM
What happens does it run well?

Go here Hackint0sh.org - Home of the latest Apple hacks. (http://www.hackint0sh.org/) some people are mean and practice piracy :mad:

Nath
17-04-2009, 02:50 PM
Ban them!

richie_b
17-04-2009, 03:50 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH

the hackintoshes are shit, I love how people have hacked up some crap with vmware and then judge OSX against that. MACs are tottaally shit U cant cut and paste! (er no command key) I'm sure there are some that work almost as good ... but still..

One of the main advantages is that they have a stable platform and a limited subset of hardware to support so it kind of defeats the purpose when you try to hack it to work on other hardware.

Kryzaach
17-04-2009, 03:51 PM
The only thing macs have going for them above any other machine is aesthetics, the OS certainly isn't a standout. The hardware is overpriced. The build quality is poorer even than acer.

If someone can justify spending the extra dollars for the pretty, then fair enough, more power to them.

For me, I'll never use one again, unless I have a specific need that only a mac can fulfil(unlikely)

merctom
17-04-2009, 03:51 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH

the hackintoshes are shit, I love how people have hacked up some crap with vmware and then judge OSX against that. MACs are tottaally shit U cant cut and paste! (er no command key) I'm sure there are some that work almost as good ... but still..

One of the main advantages is that they have a stable platform and a limited subset of hardware to support so it kind of defeats the purpose when you try to hack it to work on other hardware.

Pretty sure windows key = apple key


Build Quality is better than any other brand i have ever used - and that includes IBM

thro
17-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Good luck trying to shoehorn it into a windows domain and manage it with your existing toolset.

I love macOS (have for a while, bought a mini the other day too), don't get me wrong, but the chances of it getting a decent foothold in most corporate networks are about the same as seeing satan ice-skating to work.

Kryzaach
17-04-2009, 04:02 PM
Pretty sure windows key = apple key


Build Quality is better than any other brand i have ever used - and that includes IBM

I worked for Winthrop.

The vast majority of repair jobs were macs(70%). We sold 20% macs by volume, 60% acer, 20% other.

Edit: If you mean finish, then I agree, second to none, but finish != build quality

Klink
17-04-2009, 04:06 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH

the hackintoshes are shit, I love how people have hacked up some crap with vmware and then judge OSX against that. MACs are tottaally shit U cant cut and paste! (er no command key) I'm sure there are some that work almost as good ... but still..

One of the main advantages is that they have a stable platform and a limited subset of hardware to support so it kind of defeats the purpose when you try to hack it to work on other hardware.

Gawd you should really know what you are talking about before spewing out verbal diarrhea.

Hackintoshs do not run in VMWare. A hackintosh is Mac OSX with a hacked KERNEL and modified drivers to try and support the multitude of PC hardware out there.

Macs cant cut and paste?? WHAT?!?!?! Stop smoking crack... I think you caught an iPhone hating seminar and learnt this. My Mac cuts and pastes just fine (and so does my iPhone).


Just incase anyone is interested, the technical reason OSX doesnt easily run on a PC is because a Mac does not have a BIOS. It uses something called EFI, therefore its different... when you run a hackintosh it includes a bootloader that tricks the hackintosh into thinking it has EFI.

faceplant
17-04-2009, 04:07 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH

the hackintoshes are shit, I love how people have hacked up some crap with vmware and then judge OSX against that. MACs are tottaally shit U cant cut and paste! (er no command key) I'm sure there are some that work almost as good ... but still..

One of the main advantages is that they have a stable platform and a limited subset of hardware to support so it kind of defeats the purpose when you try to hack it to work on other hardware.

This is like when toothache is just comming on.. you know you should leave it alone but you just have to prod it ....

OK a hackintosh refers to a PC running OSX natively under an EFI bootloader called chameleon. Almost all hardward is supported through the use of binary kexts that can be applied through an osx86 application.

Now that we have sorted that bit out. Take a look at the keyboard your typing on... the windows key is universal and is infact also the command key under OSX. Cut and pasting through the use of a two button mouse or the command key works just fine .

If you are going to slag shit off get informed first, make an educated assesment form an opinion and then realise that everyone is entitled to their own and thats ok that they do.

Or you could just end up sounding ignorant dude and you wouldn't want that surely.

richie_b
17-04-2009, 04:10 PM
umm someone actually said that to me.. a guy who tried mac os x on vmware.. jeez touchy.

Brougham
17-04-2009, 04:12 PM
did that someone try to sell you the Sydney Harbour Bridge as well...?

Kryzaach
17-04-2009, 04:12 PM
Good luck trying to shoehorn it into a windows domain and manage it with your existing toolset.

I love macOS (have for a while, bought a mini the other day too), don't get me wrong, but the chances of it getting a decent foothold in most corporate networks are about the same as seeing satan ice-skating to work.


And when you do get it integrated after half a week of solid pain, don't relax for a few days. 3 days after a MAJOR implementation we got an angry phone call from a large bank because OS X dropped off the face of the network. As it turns out OSX has(had) a deliberately truncated kerberos password field, with no feedback to the service. So it appears to kerberise fine(even reports 100% success), connects via computer account for the grace period and then bombs out. We had to hack a solution by modifying apples implementation of Samba just so the banks marketing department could get online.

We asked apple about it and their response: "OS X isn't meant to be used in a network environment"

True Story.

Edit: Our in house testing period of most network implementations only ran for 3 days, an oversight that's been corrected.

Klink
17-04-2009, 04:12 PM
Oh... so a guy that knows a guy said that it was shit...

Nice.

richie_b
17-04-2009, 04:21 PM
um did you read the bit where I said I like macs? (PS I own a macbook and imac. My bro works for them. I am the gayest mac fag ever)

Brougham
17-04-2009, 04:26 PM
I am the gayest mac fag ever

:lol:

richie_b
17-04-2009, 04:26 PM
i will run future posts past my technical department and editor. :)

Desmo
17-04-2009, 04:30 PM
Or just don't post, or go and post in the generalisation thread.

Nath
17-04-2009, 04:56 PM
7 Mac Myths Debunked (Or Proven)! (http://www.laptopmag.com/mobile-life/mac-myths-debunked.aspx?page=1)

incon
17-04-2009, 05:42 PM
I have 2(+a mac mini connect to the tv) mac's at home and a linux box yet I use windows at work :(

RAVENGSXR
17-04-2009, 07:32 PM
This may answer a few question's ?

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/36961/Mac-OS-X-beats-Windows/20060513.jpg

Barfridge
17-04-2009, 07:47 PM
Not any more!

iBotnet: Researchers find signs of zombie Macs | Zero Day | ZDNet.com (http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=3157)

All you need are retarded users, and the mac world has that in spades!

NKX
18-04-2009, 04:39 PM
I am sooo sick of this "no mine's netter!" arguments. people... seriously! Each has their place.

I am a system admin and have worked in many industries from a publishing house, commercial printery, graphic design, website design, education (with multi-media and music streams using computers), and I have used a lot of different systems, and network configurations in my 18 year career. The industries I have worked in are, or at least WERE, "Mac" centric, and therefore I spent a lot of time learning, supporting, integrating, and creating system processes for Macs, Windows PCs, Novell servers, Windows NT servers, and Linux (a few different flavours).

I enjoyed my time working with Macs... I truly did. From Quadras running System 7 through blueberry G3s running OS9 (except that stupid puck mouse!, I hated that), and a little into the G4 era. At the time they were excellent at what they did, and a lot of software titles appeared to be designed for Mac first, and PC as an after-thought. Adobe's Acrobat, Photoshop and Illustrator were a couple of version ahead in terms of performance, reliability and features than the equivelent PC version. Macs were king. The same for the "music industry" which I was interested in... you could buy Mac and PC versions of the same software titles (Logic for example), but the Macs were just... better.

Until a few years back, Apple had no servers. Simple as that. They were designed as simple, reliable, desktops that allowed you to log on locally to the machine and manually connect to network shares of choice. In most cases, larger "Mac" implementations were either rooms full of standalone (or segregated workgroup networking) or were networked across site using Novell Netware servers and/or other Macs. Novell did an excellent job at allowing both Mac and PC to integrate and use the same files/shares (avoiding most issues with resource forks and all that), but Apple was clearly pitching their desktops as desktops with a cool OS. Nothing wrong with that... other than you were limited on options for running the things in a "corporate" environment/network.

I have since used almost every "dot release" of OSX on everything from still-in-production dual 1GHz mirror-door G4s through new uber-expensive quad proc Mac Pros. MacBooks, Mac Minis, the whole shooting match! After installing and playing with Office:Mac, Parallels (running Windows in unity mode for some applciations with no Mac version), iLife (iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, etc), Adobe CS3... I found it a capable workstation. And although the OS was stunning and very efficient (and had multi-tasking unlike OS9), I kept missing some of the cool tools I had on my PC. On Windows, if you need a small tool to get something done for you - you search and find a dozen freeware aps that do the job. On Mac, you either code your own (if you have the skills), buy it for lots of money, or do without. Not cool. I did like it though, but after a while found it no better than Windows - just different.

As the "desktop guy" I was recently asked to evaluate a new lab or two of iMacs for the music department and maybe a few more for the media lab... And I was excited. As much as I have been become a Windows-guy, I was looking forward to this new integration challenge... and I had the Mac skills. Unfortunately for Apple, I can stand back, take in all the argument and requirements, and make an un-biased, informed judgement on such things - it's my job.

While the latest Apple hardware is stunning... if our budget stretched I'd have bought the iMacs and run Windows on it for ALL our new workstations... and OSX (10.5.x) gets it right as far as Active Directory integration goes (yes it's on a mixed environment using Windows PCs/Servers), I found it still falls short of a good "corporate" desktop. Authenticating users and connecting home shares was fine... but handling remote management, remote control, remote disk imaging, remote software deployment, creating a "default" and "mandatory" profile to ensure each user gets configured correctly (consistently), and various other requirements like "Microsoft Exchange" email... not so good. In consultation with our hired Apple Engineers, we needed a Mac server and a LOT of customisation and scripts to really get it working how we wanted... and thats costs money (real, and in development time).

So Apple has the Xserv, but you know what... I don't like it. Sure it gives me the power I need for our environment, but at what cost? Macs, since those early days, have swapped over to the same suppliers and parts as any old PC uses, and this causes me to get a bad taste in my mouth. Speaking with our Apple resellers, they have a LOT of DOA and warranty fixes for Apple hardware (including servers)... so don't be fooled people, they are just as bad as PCs - they just look better while breaking :) ... If you get one that works, they are awesome desktops... but often you'll be missing the unit for months while it visits an Apple Service Centre - and thats something we can't afford to have happen.

Don't get me wrong, Apples + OSX are funky tools to use. The OS is so optimised for a specific sub-set of hardware components, that they really can focus on getting high levels of effeciency, reduce bloat, and make the system more stable - but they are just not as rock-solid as the old gear, and this is why I don't like the Xserv... it's actually not as good as our our current server hardware... but you're FORCED to use it to have Macs work in a "corporate" environment.

My current environment is a Windows/Actrive Directory environment, using both physical stand-alone servers and VMWare ESX servers on HP tier-1 blades etc... but will Apple work with that, no... their licensing prohibits us running the server OS virtualised on non-Apple hardware - even though it can! "Buy an Xserv" they say. Sure, unfortunately we have significant investment in much better server equipment already. We also care about uptime and therefore redundancy, so we need to accept the hardware risk and buy two or three so we can integrate AD with Open Directory and push our required preferences and profiles to our Macs. Great, if not a bit overkill for a few labs!

Since the early days, Macs have been loosing their edge in terms of software performance and hardware reliability. Design-wise they are still excellent... but it's not always about looking good. Those software manufacturers that made Apple HUGE in the print and music industries found a big audience in PC users and picked up their act. You can now do everything in Windows that you can do in OSX... EVERYTHING. The big differences are there are more options for the PC. Apple tried to win back people with the "industry standard" argument again by buying the company that was producing "Logic" and turning it into a MAC-only product... then shipping new Macs with iLife that contained "GarageBand"... which is a slimmed down Apple version of Logic. Kudos to them, and it has fooled a lot of people into going "Mac"... but it still doesn't impress me.

As someone who has WORKED in the industries, I can tell you ALL with CERTAINTY that Macs are no longer the "Industry Standard". They haven't been for years. It's now all down to myths, what people are used to, and whether they want the "Apple" brand or not.

Oh, and also, during our implementation trials recently, we found that we could meet all the requirements for the music and media labs with PC hardware, and various software, for a total of $56,000.00 LESS by staying with HP desktops, Windows, and our existing servers. In these economic times, guess which way we went.

NKX
18-04-2009, 04:41 PM
I just noticed how long that post was... Sorry guys and gals... I am "passionate" I guess.

NKX
18-04-2009, 04:47 PM
Considering the people who have perfect-working Hackintoshes using EFI bootloaders, I can't understand why Apple is so focused on not selling to PC buyers. Sure the hardware support and drivers aren't there, but to have a "team" deliberately keep patching the kernel and introduce hardware-locking checks to block attempts to run a Hackintosh is bad. Thats code that could fix the lack of OSX sand-box (the thing that allowed the Mac to fall so quickly during ComSecWest and other hacking tournaments) or something else more important.

Also, whats with Apple parts? A tad costsly aren't they? I recently had a quote for a replacement "Apple Super-Drive" (for a mate I was helping)... $399.00 RRP and two-weeks delivery! Argh! It's the same part as a PC "Pioneer DVR-109D" burner which costs $39.00. The differences, the Apple version comes with an Apple sticker, some Apple-specific firmware so it can be detected by the OS, and has had the facia removed. Apples now thay have just as much reliability issues with hardware as PCs do, but to cost that much more to buy initially, and to fix after warranty is criminal. I ended up buying the Pioneer that day, and I patched the system so that it accepted the new device. New drive works a treat... even in Toast etc. Apple parts... pffft.

And the OS versions... What? Every time they fix an implementation of a main feature, like Active Directory integration and proxy server configuration, it appears as a new major version that requires another $120.00 to get. OSX 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 just wouldn't work on the domain correctly - people were using third-party tools like "Dave" etc to get their work done. It kind-of worked in 10.3, but that version wouldn't let you configure a authenticated proxy server or an auto-configuration proxy script. OSX 10.4 had these features, but they didn't work correctly. So you need OSX 10.5 to work correctly. Thats a costly set of upgrades for two features that should have been patches.

BigCat
18-04-2009, 05:09 PM
I've been perving over a new Mac to replace my ancient AMD powered PC. I must say though that although my 3000+ AMD is an old fart compared to the latest stuff thats out, it still runs rings around my dual core 1.8ghz Toshiba work lappy for the stuff i do which is predominantly music production. Dunno why that is??? I've been considering an imac or a Macbook Pro but the cost is just too prohibitive, plus i'm not sure i likle the idea of being stuck with the same hardware for the life of the computer. PCs are great for that, cos u can replace or upgrade stuff like sound cards, optical drives, HDs etc without fuss as we already know. I guess i'm just curious to learn a new OS, but with all the blagged software i use a Mac would be just too costly to replace the PC. Don't get me wrong though, i'm neither a windows or a mac fanboi, each to their own i guess, and can't really understand the angst between the two camps. Apple make some seriously nice kit and i'd love one just to perv over, and Vista isn't the best OS, but i reckon when Windows 7 hits the shops it might be a different story.

Anyone running the beta?

NKX
18-04-2009, 06:15 PM
I'm running the Beta. Much better than Vista. I upgraded from Vista Home Premium 32-bit to Vista Ultimate 64-bit and the performance difference was massive. Vista was definitely MEANT to be a 64-bit OS IMHO. There is something wrong with the 32-bit versions, they perform terrible.

The Windows 7 performance to date has been good. It's been installed on my main home computer (Asus notebook) for a few months now, usually running lots of graphics, video, music, productivity software, and with long uptimes.

To date, I have submitted about 31 feedback emails with suggestions for improvements, but this is already faster and better than my Vista Ultimate 64-bit install (which was on the same notebook with the same software etc) - And I am a guy who appears to be unhappy and need to change something in almost everything.

One gripe: User Security. Some areas are still hard to manage due to UAC and security permissions... so I do have a few UAC and compatibility issues, but nothing I couldn't work around so far. I still feel UAC is off a touch. Although the "unblock and enter password" feature of OSX annoys me, I still feel it has the usability advantage over Microsoft's security solution.

BigCat
18-04-2009, 06:18 PM
I have a HP mininote netbook i was considering installing it on but i'm worried i'll lose the display and sound drivers. Which beta version do you have? Can't seem to find a decent torrent anywhere :(

NKX
18-04-2009, 07:05 PM
I am running the official Beta build 7000 (quite old now but, meh, I am not into torrenting OSs). Same driver architecture as Vista, so get Vista drivers and you're away. I have the 32-bit and 54-bit ISOs from Microsoft. If you want to register a new serial at microsoft.com, I can chuck 'em up somewhere. That being said, we're about one month away from the official RC build being released. Might pay to wait - the Beta only works until August.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Flakey
18-04-2009, 09:20 PM
...

IMO, If English is the most commonly spoken language on the planet then given the choice….why not learn how to speak English? I mean… its not like you are going to learn Swahili just because it may actually be a faster and more efficient method of communicating?
...

It's actually 'Kiswahili', otherwise it's like saying you speak England.

Karibu sana :)

African Brusader

Deej
18-04-2009, 09:24 PM
ZOMG its flakey.

Desmo
19-04-2009, 01:29 PM
Macs are gay. Like me.

BigTim
19-04-2009, 01:31 PM
macs are gay. Like me.
QFT

lcfuckingfilter

Desmo
19-04-2009, 01:48 PM
Dion is a fuckhead.

thro
19-04-2009, 01:59 PM
Comes down to this:

work: PC
home gaming: PC / console
home computer for generic "stuff": Mac
home computer for generic "stuff" if you're a nerd: Free Unix variant on common PC hardware


Yes, you can use macs at work.

Just like I *can* hammer nails into my balls, it doesn't mean its a good idea.

Oring
20-04-2009, 07:01 PM
Ha ha and it still goes on...
Every time I get on a big $$$ MAC it locks up.
Maybe I'm just use to clicking on too many things at once of something.

Looked at the price of a Mac book Pro. $4500+
Can get the same 17inch spec PC laptop for $1800.......so guess what I'm buying....

Last year I loaded up OSX 10.4 on a 3 year old 3 GIG HT PC, worked a treat.

merctom
20-04-2009, 07:09 PM
Ha ha and it still goes on...
Every time I get on a big $$$ MAC it locks up.
Maybe I'm just use to clicking on too many things at once of something.

Looked at the price of a Mac book Pro. $4500+
Can get the same 17inch spec PC laptop for $1800.......so guess what I'm buying....

Last year I loaded up OSX 10.4 on a 3 year old 3 GIG HT PC, worked a treat.


go on link the laptops. same build quality please as you are talking about top end (apple top end is just under 4.5k)