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T-roy
20-04-2009, 11:32 AM
How would you like the Australian government to deal with Asylum seekers?

Diesal
20-04-2009, 11:35 AM
:popcorn:

What are your thoughts T-roy?

T-roy
20-04-2009, 11:51 AM
I don't have an opinion on the subject, all i know is its a problem in Australian.

I would just like to see other peoples view and ideas for dealing with the problem.

These people are just costing Australia money, money that could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 11:51 AM
Hahahaha.

You slay me, T-Roy. :D

Maxo
20-04-2009, 11:55 AM
I would just like to see other peoples view and ideas for dealing with the problem.
The problem.Refugees?



What are your thoughts on Asylum seekers?Thoughts on them?

I don't get it.. what are you trying to "deal" with?



edit:

I don't have an opinion on the subject, all i know is its a problem in AustraliaC'mon, don't be lazy.

Moved.

Taylor
20-04-2009, 11:55 AM
I think it's funny how we put them through try outs, requiring a higher standard than most of the Australian born kids.

mark00001
20-04-2009, 12:01 PM
ship em home, if they can spend life savings on jumping on some old wooden boat to come over here illegally, why couldnt they try gain legal entrance? and why are they coming here if they are genuine refugees? wouldnt you go to the nearest "safe" country, not half way around the world

Aphex
20-04-2009, 12:01 PM
I think it's funny how we put them through try outs, requiring a higher standard than most of the Australian born kids.


I don't have an opinion on the subject, all i know is its a problem in Australian.




Fkn LOL :rofl:

Maxo
20-04-2009, 12:04 PM
ship em home, if they can spend life savings on jumping on some old wooden boat to come over here illegally, why couldnt they try gain legal entrance? and why are they coming here if they are genuine refugees? wouldnt you go to the nearest "safe" country, not half way around the world

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f20/itt-we-will-make-generalizations-present-opinions-no-basis-understanding-81711/8

MadDocker
20-04-2009, 12:07 PM
Turn them around and send them back.

If you want to live in Australia, do it the correct way. No chance in hell that they would accept, house and give medical treatment to a boat load of Australians if the situation was reversed.

Diesal
20-04-2009, 12:20 PM
Should we try to find a balance between protecting 'our' own interests and helping those who are victims elsewhere? Yes. And if you find an answer to this one, you're a fucking legend.

Should we at least consider that these are people living in conflict everyday and not simply looking for a better standard of living? Yes.


I don't have an opinion on the subject, all i know is its a problem in Australian.

I would just like to see other peoples view and ideas for dealing with the problem.

These people are just costing Australia money, money that could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

No opinion huh :confused:

Sumatie
20-04-2009, 12:23 PM
Practice for the army, navy, airforce??

baxter
20-04-2009, 12:31 PM
i think those new torpedos could use testing, if they cant go down the right paths to come here then dont come at all

maro
20-04-2009, 12:35 PM
If there's no real threat (as in similar to a Hitler chasing them down) to life back home, heal them far enough so they don't die and ship them back.

Rizzo
20-04-2009, 12:36 PM
I dont agree that we should have to accept them into the country, give them food and water supplies and fuel to get them back (and a fire extinguisher) and then turn them around. I know they come from countries with substandard living etc etc etc, and i feel sorry for the innocent one's especially the children. But this is our country and the goverment has a duty to protect it for all the legal citizens here already. If they feel they have a right to be here, do it legally!

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:39 PM
give them food and water supplies and fuel to get them back (and a fire extinguisher)But the money used on food and water supplies and fuel to get them back and a fire extinguisher could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 12:40 PM
@ Diesal

These people are just costing Australia money, money that could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

That's not an opinion, Its more fact.

If we send them home they are just going to come back.
Refugee camps are just costing us money.
It seems there is no real solution to this problem.

Bendito
20-04-2009, 12:41 PM
Fuck Off We're Full :laugh:

TheonlyNinjabitches
20-04-2009, 12:42 PM
target practice for our navy

lol

naa joking send them back home and bill there government so it doesnt keep wasting our tax money

richie_b
20-04-2009, 12:43 PM
i reckon we should let em all in so that we can build a huge manufacturing industry built on cheap labour like china.

/troll.

Maxo
20-04-2009, 12:44 PM
These people are just costing Australia money, money that could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

So are pensioners.

We should ship them to a foreign island too.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:44 PM
send them back home and bill there governmentWhat if they refuse to foot the bill?

T-roy
20-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Cost of detainment per person, per day at Sydney's Villawood detention centre: $238
(2007)

snowflake
20-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Why shouldn't Australia offer them a better quality of life? If they are genuine asylum seekers then I think Australia and every other 'wealthy' country has a duty to other less fortunate countries.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:45 PM
So are pensioners.

We should ship them to a foreign island too.I sent mine to New Zealand but they found their way home.

richie_b
20-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Fuck Off We're Full :laugh:

I saw a lady in a car with this sticker on her toyota the other day along with various others about men being full of shit, "Australian Empire" and how she's more women than i can handle. Underneath it there was a 96fm one with "be nice to people" in subscript. I lold.

TheonlyNinjabitches
20-04-2009, 12:46 PM
What if they refuse to foot the bill?

target practice for the navy then

:o:o:o:o:o:o

richie_b
20-04-2009, 12:48 PM
Why shouldn't Australia offer them a better quality of life? If they are genuine asylum seekers then I think Australia and every other 'wealthy' country has a duty to other less fortunate countries.

The UN agreement (1591?) that Australia signed agrees with you.

Rizzo
20-04-2009, 12:49 PM
But the money used on food and water supplies and fuel to get them back and a fire extinguisher could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

True, but it would be hell of a lot cheaper than detaining them for months, paying them a wage while they are here, not to mention the medical cost side of things.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:49 PM
Spend $500m to recover a $50m debt.

Fucking spendhappy Labor! :laugh:

Diesal
20-04-2009, 12:49 PM
The terms are pretty confusing, so to be clear...

"Asylum Seekers
For some of the world's refugee population it is either impractical or impossible to go first to a neighbouring country and then to seek resettlement from there. This could be because the neighbouring countries are not signatories to the international laws that would ensure their protection in these countries (few countries in this region, for instance, are signatories to the Refugee Convention). It could also be because they would not be safe in a neighbouring country, in particular if that country was sympathetic to the persecutory regime. In these cases, individuals may choose to try to go directly to a country, such as Australia, where they can seek protection.

Such people are called asylum seekers. Those who come to Australia have usually entered with a visitors', student or other temporary visa. Some arrive with no documents or with false documents."


"...Refugees
The 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (and its 1967 Protocol), to which Australia is a signatory, defines a refugee as:

Any person who owing to a well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his/her nationality and is unable, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country.

The important parts of this definition are:

that the person has to be outside their country of origin
the reason for their flight has to be a fear of persecution
this fear of persecution has to be well founded (ie they have to have
experienced it or be likely to experience it if they return)
the persecution has to result from one or more of the 5 grounds listed in the definition
they have to be unwilling or unable to seek the protection of their country...

...Arriving without appropriate papers should not be interpreted as an attempt to defraud the system. By definition, refugees are people who are at risk of persecution. In most cases, the agent of persecution is their government. Applying for a passport and/or an exit visa can be far too dangerous for some refugees; so too can be an approach to an Australian Embassy for a visa. These actions can put their lives, and those of their families, at risk. In such cases refugees may have to travel on forged documents or bypass regular migration channels and arrive without papers."

"Migrants
Migrants make a conscious choice to come to Australia. They are able to read about the country and learn about it from friends and families. They have time to study the language and explore employment opportunities before they make a final decision about whether to come."

All from Refugee Council of Australia (http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/arp/faqs.html)

Taylor
20-04-2009, 12:50 PM
You could give them the tools to communicate in society then have them pay tax?

Satan1
20-04-2009, 12:50 PM
The UN agreement (1591?) that Australia signed agrees with you.

Cool, those aboriginals had foresight.

baxter
20-04-2009, 12:51 PM
Cost of detainment per person, per day at Sydney's Villawood detention centre: $238
(2007)


cost of a 30cal round from one of the support guns on an australian frigate $5

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:52 PM
those aboriginals had foresight.Zuh?

shmoo
20-04-2009, 12:53 PM
Exactly. We have an international obligation to process/consider them. We cant and shouldnt just sink their boats and leave them for dead.

Yes, they should come here legally. But if you think its that simple, then your extremely foolish.

Satan1
20-04-2009, 12:53 PM
Zuh?

The date my friend.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:54 PM
I don't think 1591's a date, me great mate. :P

T-roy
20-04-2009, 12:55 PM
Sell them as a personal health care.....

"Yeah this 45 years of smoking has taken its toll go rip young Chiflu Nings lungs out, mine are fucked."

/The island

Cost of detainment per person, per day on Christmas Island: $1830
WTF

Satan1
20-04-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't think 1591's a date, me great mate. :P

:laugh: well resolution 1591 certainly doesn't have much to do with our issue, unless we send them to Sudan.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 12:57 PM
Well there's the dive course, the jet-skis, the waterskiing ... it all adds up.

Satan - that's why he used the ?, there's no need to crucify the poor lad ;)

richie_b
20-04-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't think 1591's a date, me great mate. :P

nah man it was totally a UN security council resolution from before the UN was formed and Australia was discovered...

chief wiggum
20-04-2009, 12:58 PM
how about splash petrol around on their boat then ignite it? oh wait......that's already happening

WIGARUS
20-04-2009, 12:58 PM
Anyone ever tried to become an australian citizen before? I haven't but I know people who have or are in the process of doing so, and it can cost a fortune and take years.

Not quite as simple as 'do it legally'

g0zer
20-04-2009, 01:00 PM
ship em home, if they can spend life savings on jumping on some old wooden boat to come over here illegally, why couldnt they try gain legal entrance?

and why are they coming here if they are genuine refugees? wouldnt you go to the nearest "safe" country, not half way around the world

the majority of the people in question are from afganistan. you know about afganistan dont you? answers to your first question requires you to expand your knowledge of afganistan.

do you know about pakistan and people smuggling rackets? answers to your 2nd question requires you to expand your knowledge of both.

you dont actually have a genuine interest in the answers to your questions though do you? yours are just rhetorical questions and you are perfectly happy to remain ignorant to the suffering of others.

Rizzo
20-04-2009, 01:03 PM
We cant and shouldnt just sink their boats and leave them for dead.

They do a pretty good job of that themselves!

Rider
20-04-2009, 01:04 PM
I would rather have boat people here then those who come here ''leagaly'' i.e refugee camps.

richie_b
20-04-2009, 01:04 PM
Satan - that's why he used the ?, there's no need to crucify the poor lad ;)

Don't worry, I'm getting used to people picking up insignificant errors in my posts and blowing them all out proportion. It would feel wrong if it didn't happen. :)

Satan1
20-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Don't worry, I'm getting used to people picking up insignificant errors in my posts and blowing them all out proportion. It would feel wrong if it didn't happen. :)
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/37221/Asylum-seekers-/Paris-Hilton-Crying-Back-To-Jail-781853.jpg
Don't worry bud, I have your back.

WIGARUS
20-04-2009, 01:07 PM
Out of proportion??

:D

richie_b
20-04-2009, 01:09 PM
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/37221/Asylum-seekers-/Paris-Hilton-Crying-Back-To-Jail-781853.jpg
Don't worry bud, I have your back.

when can i get my soul back?

Jamathi
20-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Political correctness, nobody offeres a view!
All to scared or to brainF*^ke&.
Ohh what a feeling, .....torpedo's ohh sorry, freudian slip, Toyota.

Diesal
20-04-2009, 01:19 PM
@ Diesal

These people are just costing Australia money, money that could be spent on other things that could benefit Australia.

That's not an opinion, Its more fact.

If we send them home they are just going to come back.
Refugee camps are just costing us money.
It seems there is no real solution to this problem.

Alot of them won't make it back T-roy, or they may be killed on their return.
Institutions like the camps allow the powers that be to see who has a valid case and who doesn't. Without them, they risk turning away peeps with genuine cases and accepting others who may not have a 'valid' reason for asylum.
:yes:, I agree.

I can go on about this all day but ultimately...If I were living in a place where I had a constant threat of being beaten, raped and/or murdered; where peeps could come into my home, that is if I even had one, and take what they want when they want it - if I had this every single day, I wouldn't hesitate leaving all that is known to me (maybe including my family too) and going to a country where I'd be hated and detested for merely being me. If I could do it legally without losing what little possessions I had and didn't have to worry about drowning etc, then yeah I probably would do it that way. But if I couldn't do it legally, I'd fuck off on the nearest boat and take my chances.

Now if I simply wanted a better life, I would expect that I'd have to contribute, but that's a different issue isn't it?

Regardless, we can all sit back in our safe little worlds and have our views while knowing that we'll probably never have to make the decision. Life's pretty sweet on the 'other' side.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Political correctness, nobody offeres a view!
We must be reading different threads?

Rider
20-04-2009, 01:21 PM
People that have not experianced war can not understand what its like.

Belltower
20-04-2009, 01:26 PM
Hurr hurr torpedoes.



There is no "one" answer, as it has been said previously. I'd shout a beer to the bloke who could come up with a correct solution though.

Sumatie
20-04-2009, 01:29 PM
People that have not experianced war can not understand what its like.
Why don't you go find out.

resist
20-04-2009, 01:30 PM
One of the most right-wing prime ministers of all time, Malcolm Fraser had a great solution. He set up communities of refugees where they (mostly vietnamese) received education in English, job skills training and health care. They were allowed to come and go as they please, and most found jobs and moved into the community.

I would prefer we did something similiar, with a further caveat that they can't claim the dole for 5 years. (just to keep the whingers quiet)

The fact is we are an under-populated nation, we have room and resource, and no reason to spend the money we are spending turning away the couple of dozen refugees we get each year.

I'm yet to dig up the figure, but some time ago there was a claim that in Australia every 2 refugees create 3 jobs, meaning that Australia is a better country for accepting a couple more people.

It does us more harm financially as a nation to undertake the hard line we currently do, than to undertake a more equitable solution.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 01:33 PM
I would rather be sent to their country and fix it with what ever it take, rather than them come here and ruin our country..

Because lets face it, its the people that make a country what it is. And you cant expect all the bad people to stay in that country.. You know the fuckers wont

richie_b
20-04-2009, 01:39 PM
I would rather be sent to their country and fix it with what ever it take, rather than them come here and ruin our country..


So when are you planning your trip to Afganistan?

Belltower
20-04-2009, 01:39 PM
If only it was that simple T-roy. You know it isn't.

Rider
20-04-2009, 01:44 PM
Why don't you go find out.

I have been there, thats why i have understanding and compasion mate. We have been very lucky and never needed to take high risks such as those that come here on boats.

To all of you that say ''turn them back'' OR ''blow them out of the water'' i hope you never get waken up in the middle of the night where your told you have 2 hours to pack and leave OR else.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 01:45 PM
So when are you planning your trip to Afganistan?
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f40/australia-defence-force-78288/

In Progress.

waiting on medical.

Have to start some where right.

It probably wont fix the problem but at least if i manage to get there i will have more of an understanding about it.

Rizzo
20-04-2009, 01:49 PM
If they were all going to get jobs, talk our language, practice and live by our culture, pay their own way till they are ready to retire, more people would probably be more welcoming but we all know it does not happen that way, they come over here and next thing you know is they are on a disability pension!

richie_b
20-04-2009, 01:51 PM
generalization ahoy.

resist
20-04-2009, 01:51 PM
I noticed before you quoted this site T-Roy Crikey - Asylum seekers, the facts in figures - Asylum seekers, the facts in figures (http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20090417-A-Crikey-index-Refugees-the-real-story.html)

It's a great site, yes it's a lefty paper but everybit of fact in that article is referenced and sourced, which greatly improves its credibility.

Having read that you should know that less than 5% of refugees arrive by boat. I can assure you that terrorists would not arrive in that fashion. They are well resourced, well funded and simply arriving on a tourist or student visa is a much better scenario for them. 911 hijackers all arrived in the US on valid visas, none entered the US illegally.

We have the ability, and it costs us as a nation far less than you'd believe. In fact it costs very little, and most economists agree that Australia could use a couple more thousand people to make its economy function better.

Please everyone in this thread, read the article above.

Of course, if you, like T-Roy believe that Refugees and assylum seekers "just ruin our country" then I've got no argument for you. Your position is irrational and based more in fear and prejudice than reality.

Rider
20-04-2009, 01:53 PM
If they were all going to get jobs, talk our language, practice and live by our culture, pay their own way till they are ready to retire, more people would probably be more welcoming but we all know it does not happen that way, they come over here and next thing you know is they are on a disability pension!

Imigrants/refugees come here to doll bludge?

resist
20-04-2009, 01:55 PM
Of 71 countries that accommodate refugees and asylum seekers, Australia is ranked 32nd in terms of
total numbers accepted. Per capita, Australia is 38th, slightly behind Kazakhstan, Guinea, Djibouti and
Syria. Of the 29 developed countries that accept refugees and asylum seekers, Australia is ranked 14th.
The heaviest burden of hosting refugees is borne by poor nations.
There are nearly four million Afghans in refugee camps in Pakistan and Iran.
Tanzania is hosting 680 000 refugees, Yugoslavia 484 000, Guinea 433 139 and Sudan 401 000. Of
industrialised nations, only Germany (906 000) and the United States (507 290) host large numbers.

 Tanzania hosts one refugee for every 76 Tanzanian people (1:76)

 Britain hosts one refugee for every 530 British people. (1:530)
 Australia hosts one refugee for every 1583 Australian people. (1:1583)
http://www.aeufederal.org.au/Campaigns/Myths.pdf

KichigaiNeko
20-04-2009, 02:01 PM
One of the most right-wing prime ministers of all time, Malcolm Fraser had a great solution. He set up communities of refugees where they (mostly vietnamese) received education in English, job skills training and health care. They were allowed to come and go as they please, and most found jobs and moved into the community.

I think that this is a good option



I would prefer we did something similiar, with a further caveat that they can't claim the dole for 5 years. (just to keep the whingers quiet)

That is a good option too



The fact is we are an under-populated nation, we have room and resource, and no reason to spend the money we are spending turning away the couple of dozen refugees we get each year.

I'm not sure that Australian cities really do have a great many resources. Water is a little on the short side, even with all the rain the east coast has been experiencing.


I'm yet to dig up the figure, but some time ago there was a claim that in Australia every 2 refugees create 3 jobs, meaning that Australia is a better country for accepting a couple more people.

It does us more harm financially as a nation to undertake the hard line we currently do, than to undertake a more equitable solution.

I'm not certain that Australia has such a hard line?? As for the current Asylulm seekers they seemed silly enough to set fire to their craft and this could be seen as blackmailing the Aust govt into action which is what is sticking in people's craw.

Personally I think that there should be some system where Refugees and Asylum seekers are treated equally and detained for medical checks at least. The thought of being unqualified to obtain full social security for a number of years should also be considered. These people should also be monitored as to their health etc for a few years.....and if they give us the shits we could always introduce them the the Great Sandy Desert.
my2c

resist
20-04-2009, 02:05 PM
The pacific solution is a particularly hard line, and as before with the "Children Overboard" farce, its since been established that the boat was probably not set on fire deliberately.
I think the medical checks are important, but that doesnt take 2 or more years. Most refugees detained by Australia are locked up more than a year. That's a broken system. Not only that, but private contractors run those prisons at exagerated rates.

Taylor
20-04-2009, 02:12 PM
They didn't have air conditioning when grandma lived there. It's not that bad for a waiting room, so long as they know something is being done and aren't left in limbo.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 02:22 PM
Of course, if you, like T-Roy believe that Refugees and assylum seekers "just ruin our country" then I've got no argument for you. Your position is irrational and based more in fear and prejudice than reality.

If asylum seekers don't ruin the country why aren't they letting them in?

I'm sure if they where doing our country good the government wouldn't mind if they moved here.

Mate if i set my boat on fire just off the coast of australia i would probably be charged and thrown in jail.

Specially if i killed 2 people in the process.

Diesal
20-04-2009, 02:31 PM
:clapping: God I'm proud to be an Aussie some days :rolleyes:

Taylor
20-04-2009, 02:43 PM
The ideal situation would be to open the doors to anyone, give them a scholarship and educate their children for free.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 02:53 PM
Or make their country nice and peaceful like ours.

Save the boat trip.

Maxo
20-04-2009, 02:54 PM
Or make their country nice and peaceful like ours.

Save the boat trip.

You need to get out of the country dude...

(I didn't mean that in the way of a "GTFO", but more of a "go and try to understand why your statement is impossible")

Rider
20-04-2009, 02:55 PM
T - roy your a genious.

Maxo is spot on.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 02:58 PM
I have been out of the country.
plenty of times.
But just touristy places.

Islands
Maylasia
Thailand

I was being blatant.

Maxo
20-04-2009, 02:59 PM
The Middle East and Africa are.... different.


I was being blatant.

About what?

Taylor
20-04-2009, 03:02 PM
Or make their country nice and peaceful like ours.

Save the boat trip.

In some circumstances the reason we are able to live such nice lives is because the people living in these other places are paying for our discounted goods with their quality of life.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 03:05 PM
The Middle East and Africa are.... different.



About what?

About the solution to Asylum seekers...

It would be great if we could educate there kids take care of them and all that but everyone knows that's not going to happen.

what makes you think i need to get out more?

Taylor
20-04-2009, 03:07 PM
We're having enough trouble with our own, Troy.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 03:08 PM
In some circumstances the reason we are able to live such nice lives is because the people living in these other places are paying for our discounted goods with their quality of life.

Looking it in that perspective makes you wonder who the bad people really are.

Rider
20-04-2009, 03:09 PM
T - roy your a troll and/or a dumb kid.

Taylor
20-04-2009, 03:12 PM
Looking it in that perspective makes you wonder who the bad people really are.

You better get your story right if you're going to be holding a gun for one side over the other.

mark00001
20-04-2009, 03:16 PM
you are perfectly happy to remain ignorant to the suffering of others.

yes, yes i am, fcuk everyone else

Taylor
20-04-2009, 03:18 PM
yes, yes i am, fcuk everyone else

I can only hope the same apathy confronts you in your time of need.

Belltower
20-04-2009, 03:28 PM
I can only hope the same apathy confronts you in your time of need.

Such a lovely sentiment :lol:

T-roy
20-04-2009, 03:28 PM
You better get your story right if you're going to be holding a gun for one side over the other.

I'm not really holding a gun over one side, I'm pretty open minded about the entire Thing. Only reason i am more on the side of against letting them in the country is because i see no benefit to australia at all. Yes helping inicent people seems like the right thing to do but at what cost? How long till an australian loses there life because some imagrant didnt want to go home or didnt want to pay to legally get into the country.

I did create this thread with no opinion on the matter hence the reason i asked for other peoples opinion.

I as alot of other people hate to see them suffer so badly, As i stated before i would gladly go over there and go out of my way to help their situation.
Again its not that easy. unfortunally.

mark00001
20-04-2009, 03:31 PM
I can only hope the same apathy confronts you in your time of need.

thats cool i dont think the world owes me any favours

Satan1
20-04-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm not really holding a gun over one side, I'm pretty open minded about the entire Thing. Only reason i am more on the side of against letting them in the country is because i see no benefit to australia at all. Yes helping inicent people seems like the right thing to do but at what cost? How long till an australian loses there life because some imagrant didnt want to go home or didnt want to pay to legally get into the country.

I did create this thread with no opinion on the matter hence the reason i asked for other peoples opinion.

I as alot of other people hate to see them suffer so badly, As i stated before i would gladly go over there and go out of my way to help their situation.
Again its not that easy. unfortunally.

You say allot for someone without an opinion.

richie_b
20-04-2009, 03:42 PM
thats cool i dont think the world owes me any favours

well it's already done you a big favour by allowing you to live in a country such as this. off to the gulag with you.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 03:44 PM
You say allot for someone without an opinion.

Maybe I'm not judgmental.

open minded.

I try not to jump on peoples face because they don't agree with something i say.

snowflake
20-04-2009, 03:50 PM
I'm not really holding a gun over one side, I'm pretty open minded about the entire Thing. Only reason i am more on the side of against letting them in the country is because i see no benefit to australia at all. Yes helping inicent people seems like the right thing to do but at what cost? How long till an australian loses there life because some imagrant didnt want to go home or didnt want to pay to legally get into the country.

I did create this thread with no opinion on the matter hence the reason i asked for other peoples opinion.

I as alot of other people hate to see them suffer so badly, As i stated before i would gladly go over there and go out of my way to help their situation.
Again its not that easy. unfortunally.

So we shouldn't help people because there's no benefit to Australia? What a load of shit. Maybe if people were less selfish there wouldn't be a need for people to have to flee their country & need asylum in the first place.

g0zer
20-04-2009, 03:54 PM
i think that most people are missing the point.

Australia does not have a problem with refugees, the only problem Australia has is with people smuggling rings.

this is both Rudd and Howard's explicitly stated positions.

its only some 'Australian's', who are too ignorant and racist to realise this, who perceive the refugees themselves as the problem and who talk only about refugee's and boat people, rather than people smuggling rings.

the howard govt (and now barnett) deliberately use language that obliquly presents asylum seekers as being the problem. ie: children overboard infers refugees do not value the lives of their children, refugees lighting fire to their vessel do not value their own lives- dehumanising propaganda to suit a political agenda.

If Australia was an unattractive destination to boat people and they didnt want to come here, this denies corrupt indonesian officials and underworld people smuggling rings the opportunity to make money by acting as middle men between human suffering and UN/Australian commitment to acknowledging the status of refugee's. This was the Howard govt. position, who are now accusing the Rudd govt. of contributing to human misery and the profits of people smuggling rings by loosening of the howard govt's policies.

australia is targetted by people smuggling rackets the same way ALL signatories to the 'United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (the Refugees Convention)', are.

the way i see it, barnett has stepped in a great big pile of shit glibly blabbing about what he knows (or thinks he knows) about this fire and ship sinking. it doesnt surprise me because the guy has a long history of coming across as an idiot.

Satan1
20-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Maybe I'm not judgmental.

Maybe you are?


How long till an australian loses there life because some imagrant didnt want to go home or didnt want to pay to legally get into the country.

resist
20-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Dude, its already been established that the explosion may have been accidental, and that at the very least it was the people smuggler, and not the poor bastards relying on the prick who introduced fuel to the bilges. So its simply not accurate to say that they are all deliberately doing shit like that.

As for why the government prefers to demonise assylum seekers, it's very clear, we live in a pretty xenophobic society, it's far simpler to use refugees as a scapegoat and a side issue. Refugees are easily demonised, and scapegoated for problems they simply can't cause. The whole "Fuck off we're full" mentality of nationalism and xenophobia is indicative of the devisive politics used by Howard (and labour before him, and labour since him) to curry favour with Australia.
The TAMPA was a large factor in Howard's win in 2002, and after two years in detention on Narua most of those refugees WERE granted access and settled in Australia. This was two years AFTER New Zealand had already accepted and settled 131 of the people from the TAMPA.

Your blind faith in the good will of the government is a bit disconcerting, especially given the fact you are joining the Defence force.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 04:04 PM
Oh sorry guys i care about Australia my home country more than Afghanistan the country That houses some of the most dangerous people in the world.
That makes me selfish.

Even though I'm putting my hand up to go to and help make a difference in that country.
I must be an utter cunt.

Satan
I'm missing your point.

g0zer
20-04-2009, 04:10 PM
Oh sorry guys i care about Australia

oh sorry, i didnt realise you cared about australia.

it wasnt clear to me that caring about Australia is demonstrated by subscribing to ignorant points of view and poor use of rhetoric.

edit: took a look back at your ADF thread.. i guess you have matured since then, at the time of that thread it seemed you were driven to join the ADF cos you were bored of a desk job rathen than any sense of patriotic idealism.

L2P
20-04-2009, 04:13 PM
If you loved Australia as much as you say you do, you should take what people are offering here and mull it over ;) a lot of what they are saying is good stuff.

If it is proven that asylum seekers are beneficial for Australia (at least for the moment) than wouldn't you want them coming in and creating jobs etc. for your beloved country?

resist
20-04-2009, 04:13 PM
and assuming that all refugees "ruin our country". i dont know if you know Troy, but some people in that region think Australia, US et all are coming to their country to ruin it.

Rider
20-04-2009, 04:16 PM
and assuming that all refugees "ruin our country". i dont know if you know Troy, but some people in that region think Australia, US et all are coming to their country to ruin it.

No we are going there so we can make thier country a happy place :lol:

Maxo
20-04-2009, 04:18 PM
Oh sorry guys i care about Australia my home country more than Afghanistan the country That houses some of the most dangerous people in the world.

Off you go...^_^

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f20/itt-we-will-make-generalizations-present-opinions-no-basis-understanding-81711/8



help make a difference in that country.

How are you planning on doing that?

T-roy
20-04-2009, 04:25 PM
Off you go...^_^touche ^_^



How are you planning on doing that?

The Australian and American army are actually helping rebuild Afghan.

Satan1
20-04-2009, 04:26 PM
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/37245/Asylum-seekers-/437793490_90a9b36797.jpg%3Fv%3D0

Ugghh

Nath
20-04-2009, 04:30 PM
What sort of stupidity breeds this type of conversation..

not faz
20-04-2009, 04:35 PM
The Australian and American army are actually helping rebuild Afghan.

Yeah just like they helped rebuild Iraq............oh wait.:(

T-roy
20-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Yeah just like they helped rebuild Iraq............oh wait.:(
Last time i looked they had finished more than 3000 projects Including restoring water treatment facility, schools, and power plants.

have a good read

https://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PCO_CONTENT/HOME/DOWNLOADS/RECONSTRUCTION_050107.PDF
dated 07

not faz
20-04-2009, 04:42 PM
Last time i looked they had finished more than 3000 projects Including restoring water treatment facility, schools, and power plants.

So restoring the same shit they blew up in the first place.....oh.

Nath
20-04-2009, 04:43 PM
Keep it on topic.

chew
20-04-2009, 04:52 PM
If it wasnt for boat people we wouldnt have the best Kebab shop in Perth up the road from us.

Did you see on the tele on the weekend about the 200 women protesting the laws in Afghanistan allowing a husband to demand his wife has sex with him. That is one of the bravest things I have seen. They are the ones who cant afford people smugglers.

This is turning into another political bit of bulldust for our overworked and underpaid pollies to snipe at each other with.

resist
20-04-2009, 04:59 PM
To Chee: Fucking BOOM! very well put. Not only this, it was Afghani's who opened up the interior of Australia, which is why we are one of the only countries in the world with a population of wild camels. Migration is the reason we live in a diverse, vibrant and rich culture.

chew
20-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Chee?

resist
20-04-2009, 05:07 PM
chew chee same same

Xuaxace
20-04-2009, 05:54 PM
Big problem in spain...

We send them back... Not much else can be done.

Insane
20-04-2009, 06:54 PM
cost of a 30cal round from one of the support guns on an australian frigate $5

+1 for the maths..
adds up for me..

I'm not prejudice, I hate every one equally..
so it really doesn't matter whether the Govt. calls them refugees or Asylum Seekers or illegal immigrants..

How can these refo's be victims of human smuggling rings, it was their choice to buy a boat ticket..
its not a case of people being rounded up and herded into arks to be floated 1/2 way round the world to Oz to be sold off as slaves to the labour or sex trades..


if these people didn't buy tickets that cost them their life savings on the knowledge that they will be given a handout thanks to the bleeding heart tree hugging human rights zealots in this country then there wouldn't be people smugglers..
if there isn't people smugglers then there won't be a need for detention centres
without detention centres there would be less for the bigoted ignorant stereotypical apathetic Aussie to bitch about..

And once again Australia would be the land of Milk and Honey, filled with opportunity for all people who legally follow due process.

So..
Deport all the bleeding heart tree hugging human rights zealots.
Give the refo's nothing more than the Govt. gives me or give me the hand out the refo's get.
and put a cap in the back of the head of any persons found trafficking in illegal human cargo.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 07:00 PM
I think refugees should be used for ADF target practice ... but on the other hand, I love trees and detest deforestation.

Can I just live on Rotto or something?

resist
20-04-2009, 07:10 PM
Give the refo's nothing more than the Govt. gives me or give me the hand out the refo's get.

What is this non-existant hand out you speak of? maybe you mean gaol? I've got no problem locking people like you up for two years. We'll see how it goes.

Calamity
20-04-2009, 07:17 PM
Personally I think a few should be blown up out in the ocean and left, only 2 or 3 boats need to be lost and they would stop coming.
If they don't well there is something to be said about Darwinism.

I be fckd if I want my tax dollars giving them more welfare than the pensioners who have actually slogged and earned their pension in this country !!!

Other than that I am not fussed :D

T-Rex
20-04-2009, 09:16 PM
The means and methods do not exist for most boat people to legally come to Australia. To come takes medical clearances, reams of paperwork, police clearances all that shit-not the sort of thing true refugees have the ability to do. Imagine your trying to get your licence; if someone with green eyes working for the DPI sees you: you get arrested, beaten up and don't know what they are doing to your family but you can hear them screaming. (last bit added for the lols cause torture and shit is funny as hell aye)
Conflicts overseas tend to be extremely violent and ill-justified, political power plays and other complex issues can threaten the lives of good people. The only option is to flee for some and as safe heavens go Australia is pretty high up there.

As for the notion that it's a boat load of terrorists and our awesome sea patrol super awesome killer men should use them as target practice; I have reserved thoughts on bad taste jokes.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 09:20 PM
As for the notion that it's a boat load of terrorists and our awesome sea patrol super awesome killer men should use them as target practice; I have reserved thoughts on bad taste jokes.What makes you think they're joking?

T-roy
20-04-2009, 10:15 PM
I saw them. in hospital today.

They don't speak English.

Dealing with these people is like trying to cure cancer.

That's in my eyes anyway.

best of luck to them

Lolly
20-04-2009, 10:17 PM
This was posted on Perth Now but it so aptly sums up how I feel after reading some of the comments made here and media sites:



I hope they recover quickly. I wish them all the best. As for those who post messages of pig-ignorance and hate against the asylum seekers, if only we could throw this human garbage on the refugees boats, tow them out to sea and set fire to them. Australia would become a better educated, more compassionate and successful country for the absence of these unwanted losers and parasites, who by some horrible bad luck, happen to have Australian residency and citizenship rights - not through anything they themselves have ever done or earned, but by the unfortunate accident of their birth.
Posted by: Good wishes to the newcomers of 5:05pm today
Comment 5 of 11

resist
20-04-2009, 10:39 PM
I saw them. in hospital today.

They don't speak English.

Dealing with these people is like trying to cure cancer.

That's in my eyes anyway.

best of luck to them

Why? Because they dont speak english they are cancer? dude you really arent very bright, and frankly it's this bullying, shit ignorant attitude thats been you hallmark since you rocked up here. The Taliban are not so good with the English schools, maybe they've not had the opportunity to learn english.

You keep saying you're going over there, have you learnt Afghani? Have you learnt Arabic?

Didn't think so.

The Saint
20-04-2009, 10:44 PM
Mista Resista: read what he wrote.

Dealing with them is like trying to cure cancer (a difficult problem with no ready solution).

Not they are a cancer (a rapidly proliferating nastiness).

T-Rex
20-04-2009, 10:49 PM
I saw them. in hospital today.

They don't speak English.

Dealing with these people is like trying to cure cancer.

That's in my eyes anyway.

best of luck to them

They set themselves on fire to get into oz. Can you think of anything you want so badly you would pour petrol on yourself to get?

I've seen "them" as well, lacking a grasp of English hasn't stopped them from telling sad stories, they learn to speak English in a couple months anyway. I know of 3 refugees. One hasn't seen his father in years; they (the political party/leaders he and his party posed a threat to) have him in prison-no charge, no visitors.

The other two have been adopted from Africa where their parents were killed, their siblings were old enough to be taken as child soldiers. I used to baby sit them, the first example went to my school. (basically have you watched blood diamond?)

edit-(ok, they didn't pour petrol on themselves?)

T-roy
20-04-2009, 11:03 PM
Mista Resista: read what he wrote.

Dealing with them is like trying to cure cancer (a difficult problem with no ready solution).

Not they are a cancer (a rapidly proliferating nastiness).

Here is me thinking I'm talking completely gibberish..

Now i know i just fail at English :lol:

Resist: I don't hate these people nor do i want them to be shot like most of the other people on this forum.

I open this thread hoping for a better understanding of Asylum seeker's. and maybe ideas of a better solution.

Why you have jumped out at me i do not know.
Maybe because you took something i said the wrong way.

"ruin our country"

by saying that i mean like this:

I like how Australia is right now, i would hate to see it change. If something changed because someone that believed strongly in a religion came to power and made it law that you follow this religion. to me that would ruin Australia.

although it is very unlikely that that would happen. there is still a chance.

euphoric
20-04-2009, 11:04 PM
i know it's just semantics to some, but it's not actually illegal to seek asylum as a refugee in this country. and overwhelmingly the people who apply for asylum, are determined to be genuine refugees. and overwhelmingly the ILLEGAL immigrants come from english speaking countries, on tourist visas and over stay. the fact refugees don't speak english doesn't make them any less human.

Roger Explosion
20-04-2009, 11:05 PM
Asylym seekers do not even hit my radar of worries. I'm more concerned about the large amount of self entilted, lazy, parrasitic piece of shit waste of space oxygen thieves etc known as long term welfare recipients who go around stealing other peoples stuff while they are at work earing money to contribute to the taxation system that keeps these fucktard bogan knobheads living.
As far as I see it, most asylym seekers are out to try and better their lives. Which is the polar opposite of a fair chunck of our "true blue" Aussie population.
Come on in, we are far from full.

Rider
20-04-2009, 11:07 PM
Here is me thinking I'm talking completely gibberish..

Now i know i just fail at English :lol:

Resist: I don't hate these people nor do i want them to be shot like most of the other people on this forum.

I open this thread hoping for a better understanding of Asylum seeker's. and maybe ideas of a better solution.
Why you have jumped out at me i do not know.
Maybe because you took something i said the wrong way.

"ruin our country"

by saying that i mean like this:

I like how Australia is right now, i would hate to see it change. If something changed because someone that believed strongly in a religion came to power and made it law that you follow this religion. to me that would ruin Australia.

although it is very unlikely that that would happen. there is still a chance.

Well i hope we were of assistance and you have a better understaning of situation.

resist
20-04-2009, 11:08 PM
A: there is no chance at all. B: Muslim fanatics are not as widespread as you believe, no more so than jewish or christian fantatics. It is a deep and complex religion with many different sects and interpretations, just like christianity. C: Do you really think that people RUNNING FROM FUNDAMENTALIST REGIMES would want one installed here? And do you really think that the less than 1% of Australian's who are refugees would be able to effect that change?

The Saint
20-04-2009, 11:09 PM
Be fair.

When they nick your plasma telly, those true blue Aussies better their lives no end.

Rider
20-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Be fair.

When they nick your plasma telly, those true blue Aussies better their lives no end.

And the money doesnt leave our shores :lol:

euphoric
20-04-2009, 11:13 PM
and my biggest disappointment and fear about my country is the rise of nationalism being dressed as patriotism. my father who gave 35years of his life in service of his country and saw many conflicts would be turning in his grave to know the ideals he fought and watched mates die for have been turned into this "fuck off we're full" mentality.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 11:34 PM
A: there is no chance at all. B: Muslim fanatics are not as widespread as you believe, no more so than jewish or christian fantatics. It is a deep and complex religion with many different sects and interpretations, just like christianity. C: Do you really think that people RUNNING FROM FUNDAMENTALIST REGIMES would want one installed here? And do you really think that the less than 1% of Australian's who are refugees would be able to effect that change?

I have seen enough to convince myself that anything is possible.

I know i haven't seen much,

But i look around, Everyday things that where once thought to be impossible people are doing.

Fuck!

America has a black president.

resist
20-04-2009, 11:36 PM
You keep claiming you're here to learn more, but you're not thinking, and you're not listening. Your stance is the same now as it was in post three.

merctom
20-04-2009, 11:43 PM
Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that he isn't listening or learning. An idea and a way of thinking is a lot harder to change than just sitting down and listening to someone, you must go away and grok all that you have heard.

Then decide whether you agree or not. No-one can be right or true as those conventions don't exist.

Also just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that he is wrong, in certain ways I see the validity in both your arguments.

resist
20-04-2009, 11:49 PM
Mate, the kid thinks that refugees are going to come turn australia into a land with sharia law, thats ridiculous, he hasn't listened to the counter argument, he just keeps repeating his really badly thought out belief that they will ruin our country.

T-roy
20-04-2009, 11:58 PM
Limit Muslim migration, Australia warned - National - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/limit-muslim-migration-australia-warned/2007/02/15/1171405374552.html)

Interesting read.

i noticed you said "It is a deep and complex religion with many different sects and interpretations" but its already happened to other countrys.

mekon
21-04-2009, 12:00 AM
As I was growing up, my Dad was an engineer with the UNHCR which saw him based in Ethiopia, the Sudan, Malaysia and surrounding islands like Pula Bedong (refugee holding camps.) and more recently trying to be involved in a reconstruction/infrastructure project in Somalia (which he was denied travel from Australia). We lived in some of these places and frequently visited the refugee camps. When we imigrated to Australia from the UK we spent a week in Graylands in the refugee holding camp until our sponsorship was sorted and long after this we were involved in support groups for refugees. I'm telling you this to give you an idea of how I've been exposed to this topic.

The stories I've been told by refugee families and my Father and the photos I've seen (that he has taken) just drums home how desperate these people must be to flee their troubled homes. Can any of you for a moment imagine being displaced from your home and forced to flee from persecution?

This nationalist attitude is disgusting, it's not "pride", it's founded on ignorance. You won't have to look far on the net to see how many famous and worthwhile people were refugees or were once asylum seekers.

The talk of putting a few rounds through the hull and sinking these boat people at sea is just sick. I can't imagine many Australians ever having to fear torture, rape, starvation, imprisonment without trial and so on.

Sure some undesirable people slip through the net once in a while, but for fuck sake we have enough home grown undesirables. Where's the compassion. Think on a world scale. Most of us have it easy - even when it seems like the walls are falling down around us. There's usually some sort of safety net in our society that can help us. We're not going to end up forced from our country, or starve or be killed.

merctom
21-04-2009, 12:01 AM
Your repeating your beliefs and he is repeating his. Both of you are working from limited information, received from different sources. How about instead of just yelling what you think at each other and basically not get anywhere how about you try to understand where the other person is coming from.

What about the cleric in the eastern states that declared that a woman showing flesh is inviting rape? That is based on the belief structure that he grew up in and he is immersed in now. People coming into a culture from other cultures are always going to change the culture that they are assimilating into. To say otherwise is just plan ignorance.

Anyway I think your talking about different things.

Refugee's VS Asylum Seekers. Both need different approaches.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 12:12 AM
Albert Einstein, one of the world's most famous scientists was a refugee from Germany.

Touche.

And here is me thinking nothing good comes out of these people.

thanks mekon didn't think about searching for that.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 12:18 AM
Yeah, but JR Oppenheimer was the son of a German Jewish immigrant to the US, so it cancels Einstein out. :D

LouER6N
21-04-2009, 12:23 AM
I'm amazed that some people don't seem to understand how bad things would have to be in a persons own country that it would make them pay every cent they had to get in a leaky boat to get to somewhere better. My husband and his father were refugees in the late 70's. They left separately and his father came to Australia first and my husband was only young and ended up in one of the refugee camps in Malaysia. He had to wait quite a few months for his father to be able to save up the money to sponsor him over to Australia and then it took a few more years to save up before the rest of the family could be sponsored over. My husbands family have worked hard for everything they have - there weren't any government handouts.

And a better solution? wouldn't that be to allow asylum seekers/refugees to live here and help them access the tools they need to contribute and feel a part of the community instead of alienating them?

Church
21-04-2009, 12:29 AM
I'm getting tired of this nationalist, ignorant idea that asylum seekers are somehow going to mysteriously "ruin" this country.

How? Explain to me what threat they pose? Can any of the scum who oppose the idea of giving refuge to people whose lives have been rent to the point that they must take the immense risk of boarding a rickety boat manned by people who may well kill them instead of taking them anywhere actually tell me what detriment would occur to our society if we gave them that refuge?

And don't go telling me we can't afford it. We "Couldn't afford it" when the economy was booming and we had billions of dollars in surplus. We "couldn't afford it" when we spent millions building the detention centres to inhumanely inprison them.

I am honestly stunned by what is either malice or ignorance displayed by people who resort to this "Fuck off, we're full" bullshit, or say "They threaten our way of life."

I'd absolutely love to corner one of you cowards in a room with a family of boat people so you can explain why they have to go back to their horrible conditions to be persecuted, raped, brutalised, starved and oppressed.

"Sorry, it's just that you threaten our way of life..."

"How?"

" ...Well, I'm not all that bright, you see, so I haven't thought that far ahead..."

Show some damned compassion. Look past that illogical thing that makes you mysteriously love this piece of land more than any others and see that there are disadvantaged people in the world. Nationalism should always take a backseat to morality, not least because they're often polar opposites.

PatB
21-04-2009, 08:15 AM
Limit Muslim migration, Australia warned - National - smh.com.au

Interesting read.

i noticed you said "It is a deep and complex religion with many different sects and interpretations" but its already happened to other countrys.

Yep, sounds like a really impartial source.

euphoric
21-04-2009, 08:48 AM
And here is me thinking nothing good comes out of these people.


it is statements like this that allows others to think you are either choosing ignorance or don't have the capability for rational process of thought on the issue. it also shows your entrenched racism.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 09:10 AM
it is statements like this that allows others to think you are either choosing ignorance or don't have the capability for rational process of thought on the issue. it also shows your entrenched racism.

I'm racist?

What makes you think i am racist?

Bendito
21-04-2009, 09:13 AM
Albert Einstein, one of the world's most famous scientists was a refugee from Germany.

Touche.

And here is me thinking nothing good comes out of these people.

thanks mekon didn't think about searching for that.

richie_b
21-04-2009, 09:33 AM
I'm racist?

What makes you think i am racist?

Have you ever said the words "I'm not racist but..." ?

chew
21-04-2009, 09:34 AM
I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 09:41 AM
I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally.Ahahahahahahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*wipes tears from eyes*

That's quite good man, is that a chew original?

Do you mind if I use it? :)

chew
21-04-2009, 09:57 AM
Its an oldy but a goody, works best with a pause between I'm not racist and the rest of the saying. Not mine, has been used once already in this thread with a variation.

Taylor
21-04-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm racist?

What makes you think i am racist?

Isn't stereotyping people as being of a religion and therefore partial to certain unfavorable behavior, based on where they come from or the colour of their skin, inherently racist?

Aphex
21-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Oh sorry guys i care about Australia my home country more than Afghanistan the country That houses some of the most dangerous people in the world.
That makes me selfish.

Even though I'm putting my hand up to go to and help make a difference in that country.
I must be an utter cunt.

Satan
I'm missing your point.

On one hand, you're wanting to attempt to make a difference to peoples lives, on the other you're wanting to deny those in real need. Make up your mind boy.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Isn't stereotyping people as being of a religion and therefore partial to certain unfavorable behavior, based on where they come from or the colour of their skin, inherently racist?

Anyone can be religious. its a choice.

Doesn't matter where your from.

Maxo
21-04-2009, 10:13 AM
Anyone can be religious. its a choice.

Doesn't matter where your from.

Not so much a choice in certain cultures.


edit: I've given up ranting, I want you to figure this one out yourself.

euphoric
21-04-2009, 10:15 AM
I have seen enough to convince myself that anything is possible.

I know i haven't seen much,

But i look around, Everyday things that where once thought to be impossible people are doing.

Fuck!

America has a black president.

So why of all the things that "were once thought to be impossible" did you pick the example of USA having a black president? and why did that seem impossible to you?

richie_b
21-04-2009, 10:19 AM
omg the darkies are taking over.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 10:26 AM
So why of all the things that "were once thought to be impossible" did you pick the example of USA having a black president? and why did that seem impossible to you?

yes
It was an example


If you went back to the 1800s and tried tell someone that in the year 2000 we would be able to communicate instantly all over the world. they most likely would have told you its impossible.

Same with asking them about a black President.

not faz
21-04-2009, 10:28 AM
So why of all the things that "were once thought to be impossible" did you pick the example of USA having a black president? and why did that seem impossible to you?

I think probably due to the entrenched racism in that country rather than T-Roy's own views on African-Americans. I'm sure T-Roy isn't the only person that finds it surprising that The USA has a black president.

xanthian
21-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm getting tired of this nationalist, ignorant idea that asylum seekers are somehow going to mysteriously "ruin" this country.

On that we're in agreement. If only, y'know, asylum seeker and boatperson were one and the same -- but they're not.

Hence the term 'queue-jumper' that has been attached to them historically. My parents spent 4 years in a queue and lost most of their savings to get into this country, way back post-WWII. (Of course, they arrived rather backward, having heard of the white australia policy and being let down when they got here.)

I'm curious; are you for or against the previous liberal policy of getting the UN (who have far stricter rules for asylum seekers) to check them offshore in order to avoid them disappearing into the population? (Remember the Kosovo refugees, we were 'nice' to and decided not to put in detention? Yeah, they're still missing.)


How? Explain to me what threat they pose? Can any of the scum who oppose the idea of giving refuge to people whose lives have been rent to the point that they must take the immense risk of boarding a rickety boat manned by people who may well kill them instead of taking them anywhere actually tell me what detriment would occur to our society if we gave them that refuge?

Aside from the obvious terrorism red flag (yes, it's a legitimate one; several Iraqis were showing up on a boat here with suitcases filled with >$50 000), there's a whole host of other issues. Disease for one; boatpeople don't normally observe quarantine, either of themselves or materials they bring with them. See SARS (even if it was just a scare) or trichinosis. Australian pork is the only pork in the world to be free of Trichinosis, but that could easily change.


And don't go telling me we can't afford it. We "Couldn't afford it" when the economy was booming and we had billions of dollars in surplus. We "couldn't afford it" when we spent millions building the detention centres to inhumanely inprison them.

We can afford to keep them. But what are our obligations beyond that? With unemployment on the rise, can we afford to employ them over the citizenry who are here legitimately? How about housing?? Can we afford to house them ahead of people on the homeswest scheme? I realise that boatpeople are a teeny tiny number, but these are legitimate fears for people who are struggling with these very things. Fuck, I work full time for above minimum wage and I'd be struggling if I had a place of my own. If I didn't speak english and had no family here, I'd be on the streets, exploited, or doing something illegal, with no alternative. Wouldn't be my fault, but is it really better than being in another country closer to home where you can at least speak the language?


:words:

Don't go on with this fucking bleeding heart agenda bullshit. Accepting people just because they claim to be refugees and shrugging when it comes to the details is every bit as bad as the initiatives those hippies from PETA have been spearheading lately.

You want the real stats on these refugees, compare them to the hard working european farmer refugees who established this country post-WWI. They learned the language. They fit in with the population. They fucking tried their best to make their kids as well off, adjusted and educated as they could be. They didn't escape the raping and murdering at home to inflict it in the name of the Qur'an locally, demanding Sharia law and a muslim state, and claim that you were suppressing their religion by treating their religion just like any other, and imprisoning any religious member for encouraging violence or illegal activities.

I have nothing against muslims whatsoever, but fuck me, every time I meet one who struggles to say two words, or expects society to change to accomodate their religion and nobody else's, yes, I feel the racist impulses rising to the surface.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 10:32 AM
What's with the spoiler tags for text?

Satan1
21-04-2009, 10:36 AM
What's with the spoiler tags for text?

I don't know but his cool factor just went off the charts! :rolleyes:

xanthian
21-04-2009, 10:48 AM
Asking for stats because I'm too lazy to fetch them myself neither adds nor detracts from the structure or argument of what I've written before or after the spoiler.

It was that or "I heard on the news at some point in the last fortnight that roughly 1% of our asylum seekers are boatpeople" and this issue is touchy enough without made up stats.

resist
21-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Xanthian that figure is from the Australian Government, go back to the link to the crikey post, read the post, follow the link to the source. It's not media.

And for the record, I know plenty of nonna's who cant speak one word of English, so dont pretend like europeans are so much more advanced than non-europeans.

You've got a bad habit of posting with one foot off the peg Xan.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 10:52 AM
We only know about the ones that are caught.

How would people know about the ones that are still living here illegally?

I'm sure not all of them get caught.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 10:55 AM
Asking for stats because I'm too lazy to fetch them myself neither adds nor detracts from the structure or argument of what I've written before or after the spoiler.

It was that or "I heard on the news at some point in the last fortnight that roughly 1% of our asylum seekers are boatpeople" and this issue is touchy enough without made up stats.... or ask for stats in your post without the spoiler tags.

By your own admission, this would not detract from the structure of what you had written.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 10:56 AM
... or ask for stats in your post without the spoiler tags.

By your own admission, this would not detract from the structure of what you had written.

Get the fuck over it.

Its just a spoiler tags.

Where not talking about them.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 10:58 AM
Thanks for that T-Mod.

Taylor
21-04-2009, 11:00 AM
Anyone can be religious. its a choice.

Doesn't matter where your from.

Then why is it only going to ruin the country when it's people from other countries?

resist
21-04-2009, 11:03 AM
The vast majority of "illegals" living here are Visa Overstayers from the UK, US and NZ, and yet, none of them are in detention. Meanwhile in 2004 a Vietnamese student who overstayed her visa was locked in VillaWood and found the conditions so harsh she hung herseld. THAT is symptomatic of the inherent racism in the system. White illegal - no problem, non white illegal - big problem.

=Stevo=
21-04-2009, 11:03 AM
We only know about the ones that are caught.

How would people know about the ones that are still living here illegally?

I'm sure not all of them get caught.


I think we have a bigger problem with the non-asylum seekers who just fly over here on 'holiday' or student visa and then drop off the radar...


I'm happy for us to take on Asylum seekers, as long as there is a set pathway to achieving entry... one which DOESNT take 3 years or so
ie - Medical Check
- History/Background (genuine reason for leaving?)
- Education (English, basic Australian 'culture' (or lack thereof), getting a job)

Combined with some assistance to help integrate them into the community, many of them will probably work out to be useful - not dole bludgers

xanthian
21-04-2009, 11:05 AM
And for the record, I know plenty of nonna's who cant speak one word of English, so dont pretend like europeans are so much more advanced than non-europeans.Yeah, that's a product of a different era too. Stay-at-home wives who had no opportunity for education or freedom. Please let's keep those people around in the 21st century for posterity.

How many of their children were brainwashed instead of educated, or taught to live in another country because this one isn't good enough? (Ok ok, some Ukranians, Yugoslavians, Croatians, and a few Polish might be guilty of this -- and fully warrant the same ridicule.) Why are places like Guildford so affluent?

The Saint
21-04-2009, 11:05 AM
Combined with some assistance to help integrate them into the community, many of them will probably work out to be useful - not dole bludgers"Many of them"?

"Probably"?

This suggests that some asylum seekers will possibly become dole bludgers.

We just can't afford to take that risk.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:05 AM
Then why is it only going to ruin the country when it's people from other countries?

So if you got the entire aboriginal race and dumped them in Tasmania. Do you think Tasmania wouldn't change?

This is an example.

Maxo
21-04-2009, 11:07 AM
So if you got the entire aboriginal race and dumped them in Tasmania. Do you think Tasmania wouldn't change?

This is an example.

:lol:

edit: we need a "PSB T-roy quote gold thread"

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:07 AM
I think we have a bigger problem with the non-asylum seekers who just fly over here on 'holiday' or student visa and then drop off the radar...


I'm happy for us to take on Asylum seekers, as long as there is a set pathway to achieving entry...
ie - Medical Check
- History/Background (genuine reason for leaving?)
- Education (English, basic Australian 'culture' (or lack thereof), getting a job)

Combined with some assistance to help integrate them into the community, many of them will probably work out to be useful - not dole bludgers

And what about the people that are going through the immigration precedences properly?

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:12 AM
So if you got the entire aboriginal race and dumped them in Tasmania. Do you think Tasmania wouldn't change?

This is an example.

I know that's extreme. But it seems that's the only way to explain it.

=Stevo=
21-04-2009, 11:12 AM
And what about the people that are going through the immigration precedences properly?

what about them? :mellow:

euphoric
21-04-2009, 11:13 AM
yes
It was an example


If you went back to the 1800s and tried tell someone that in the year 2000 we would be able to communicate instantly all over the world. they most likely would have told you its impossible.

Same with asking them about a black President.

you gave it as an example of something YOU thought to be impossible. and we dont live in the 1800s, so we know instant communication is possible and we also know that the colour of your skin doesn't count to leadership abilities. so why do YOU think it makes a difference?

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:13 AM
what about them? :mellow:

We have that procedure for a reason.

not faz
21-04-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm happy for us to take on Asylum seekers, as long as there is a set pathway to achieving entry... one which DOESNT take 3 years or so
ie - Medical Check
- History/Background (genuine reason for leaving?)
- Education (English, basic Australian 'culture' (or lack thereof), getting a job)

Combined with some assistance to help integrate them into the community, many of them will probably work out to be useful - not dole bludgers

This would work if we didn't lock up asylum seekers upon arrival.

I know I would prefer to sneak into the country rather than run the risk of being locked up for an undetermined amount of time.

resist
21-04-2009, 11:15 AM
Its a false claim, you're talking about putting 200,000 people into an island with only about a million on it. We're talking about 10,000 people into an enormous island with 20 million people in it.
And once again, why do you believe that all muslims want sharia law here? Don't you think its a little odd they'd try to install the same regime here they ran away from?

resist
21-04-2009, 11:16 AM
I wonder how the Defence force psych screenings responded to T-Roy?

=Stevo=
21-04-2009, 11:18 AM
We have that procedure for a reason.

Asylum seekers by definition tend to be displaced from their home and residence... they do not generally have access to government agencies and departments to assist them in making a proper application to move elsewhere - they often lack the resources required as well...

not faz
21-04-2009, 11:18 AM
Wow ten page thread in less than 24 hours!:eek:

This is bigger than CuriousGirlx's introductory thread! (A lot less arousing though:()

Rider
21-04-2009, 11:21 AM
And what about the people that are going through the immigration precedences properly?

Why cant you understand that some people CAN NOT do this?

Taylor
21-04-2009, 11:25 AM
I wonder how the Defence force psych screenings responded to T-Roy?

I'm sure a young man who can see only black and white is far more likely to react, not hesitate and more importantly, not question his orders.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:29 AM
Its a false claim, you're talking about putting 200,000 people into an island with only about a million on it. We're talking about 10,000 people into an enormous island with 20 million people in it.
And once again, why do you believe that all muslims want sharia law here? Don't you think its a little odd they'd try to install the same regime here they ran away from?

Because that will impress the Sharia gods.

Its happening in France
and Briton

What makes you think it wont happen here?

That's all they want to do.




I wonder how the Defence force psych screenings responded to T-Roy?

Ill let you know

merctom
21-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Why cant you understand that some people CAN NOT do this?

T-roys point is that people coming into the country through normal means should be given preference in terms of both speed and resources towards getting them in compared to people that have arrived here illegally.

What you people need to realise is that asylum seekers /= refugees.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Because that will impress the Sharia gods.The what now?

xanthian
21-04-2009, 11:31 AM
and we also know that the colour of your skin doesn't count to leadership abilities.

Au contraire. If you're black, everyone is eager to elect and please you and it makes the job so much easier.

Gotta love reverse racism.


why do you believe that all muslims want sharia law here?

Is that directed at me or T-roy?


Why cant you understand that some people CAN NOT do this?

And they shouldn't be turned away when they wash up on shore because?

Assuming they fail some criteria for application, why are they legitimate just because they washed up?

Ok, ok, it'd be different if they escaped a war from, say, Vietnam or Christmas Island, and Australia was the closest place to escape to. But going half way around the world as an illegal refugee, then going through several countries and boarding a boat to get to Australia, with more money than most people in your homeland will ever be able to save up, isn't exactly indicative of "I just want to get the hell out of dodge because it's not nice there".

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:33 AM
The what now?

Law god its the same thing to them.

PatB
21-04-2009, 11:35 AM
Remember the Kosovo refugees, we were 'nice' to and decided not to put in detention? Yeah, they're still missing


How would people know about the ones that are still living here illegally?

I'm sure not all of them get caught.

An illegal immigrant who is missing or who is not caught is, pretty much by definition, not receiving any government assistance and is not getting into any legal trouble.

Both these traits strike me as being pretty bloody positive to be honest.

BTW, I don't think anyone but the loopiest of moonbats is suggesting that asylum seekers be allowed into Australia without undergoing medical and background checks. Just that there are ways of achieving this other than locking them up for years in the middle of the desert or on small Pacific islands, whilst paying dodgy private prison companies an enormous amount of money to do a very mediocre job.

merctom
21-04-2009, 11:35 AM
Law god its the same thing to them.

Stop making comments about things you know nothing about.

Rider
21-04-2009, 11:35 AM
I wonder how the Defence force psych screenings responded to T-Roy?

Perfect candidate for the front lines :D

resist
21-04-2009, 11:38 AM
It was directed at T-Roy Xan, but feel free to throw your outside leg in the air and answer.

Taylor
21-04-2009, 11:38 AM
Law god its the same thing to them.

The Japanese soldiers were told that US Marines had to kill their children to be allowed in. What bumper sticker did you read your opinion from?

merctom
21-04-2009, 11:38 AM
An illegal immigrant who is missing or who is not caught is, pretty much by definition, not receiving any government assistance and is not getting into any legal trouble.



they also aren't paying any tax and cannot register their children.

merctom
21-04-2009, 11:40 AM
The amount of rudeness in this thread is fucking disgusting. Most of it is coming from the people who support welcoming asylum seekers without background checks.

I'm out, enjoy your pissing contest.

PatB
21-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Its happening in France
and Briton

Dunno about France, but to suggest that the average Briton's life is negatively impacted by Muslim influence is bollocks of the first order. Do not believe every news story sourced from the Sun or the Daily Mail.

xanthian
21-04-2009, 11:41 AM
Law god its the same thing to them.

Just because some muslims don't believe in a separation of church and state doesn't mean they can't distinguish between them. God doesn't cut off your hand if you steal.

And, frankly, it's the same old-testament god who christians and jews have in their bible anyway. Claiming that your god is better than their god is like claiming your dad is smarter than your brother's/sister's dad.


An illegal immigrant who is missing or who is not caught is, pretty much by definition, not receiving any government assistance and is not getting into any legal trouble.

Both these traits strike me as being pretty bloody positive to be honest.

Terrorists do a pretty good job off staying off the radar. And I've never seen a successful suicide bomber deported after the fact, have you? Detention centres are necessary for both quarantine and ensuring they don't vanish before sufficient checks are carried out. They are a by-product of the fact that the kosovo refugees vanished, and you can't pretend to claim that that wouldn't happen again given identical circumstances -- can you?

PatB
21-04-2009, 11:42 AM
people who support welcoming asylum seekers without background checks

You must have been reading a different thread from the one I can see.

Maxo
21-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Stop making comments about things you know nothing about.
^this

Suggest someone make something useful out of this thread or i'll bin it, or rename it ITT We will make generalizations and present opinions with no basis or understanding. (http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f20/itt-we-will-make-generalizations-present-opinions-no-basis-understanding-81711/) v 2 .

The Saint
21-04-2009, 11:44 AM
Claiming that your god is better than their god is like claiming your dad is smarter than your brother's/sister's dad.What if you have a half-brother?

Is your demigod better than their demigod?

resist
21-04-2009, 11:49 AM
I think this thread has gone far enough, I'm sure some people have had their opinion skewed a little bit by this thread, for the others there is probably not much chance it will happen. I've made a concession, I think that limiting access to social security is probably reasonable for a short period of time. I concede that detention is probably reasonable, but not under the terms it is now. It should take no more than 6 weeks to process a claim, do the regular medical checks, quarantine checks and release them, albeit with a tight leash. I'm certain that with a better distribution of resources the authorities will find it quite simple to catch those very few who abscond.

PatB
21-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Terrorists do a pretty good job off staying off the radar. And I've never seen a successful suicide bomber deported after the fact, have you?

How many terrorist attacks have taken place in Australia?

I'll make it easy for you and confine it to the last 40 years and will accept an approximate, order of magnitude answer. Bonus points if you can give the migration status of the perpetrator(s).

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Dunno about France, but to suggest that the average Briton's life is negatively impacted by Muslim influence is bollocks of the first order. Do not believe every news story sourced from the Sun or the Daily Mail.

Its wasn't from a news story.

People are pushing for Sharia law to be introduced into Briton to settle disputes between Muslims.

2005 civil riots in France.

Who's to blame for that one?

mostly immigrants

resist
21-04-2009, 11:51 AM
PatB I'm going to go with around 20 and say that the migrant status was a full citizen. Jack V Tongren, a bunch of bikie bombings and the Port Arthur bloke.

xanthian
21-04-2009, 11:52 AM
How many terrorist attacks have taken place in Australia?

I'll make it easy for you and confine it to the last 40 years and will accept an approximate, order of magnitude answer. Bonus points if you can give the migration status of the perpetrator(s).

It's obvious what the answer is -- isn't it?

The terrorist hotline and border protection are working!

:rofl:

PatB
21-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Its wasn't from a news story.

People are pushing for Sharia law to be introduced into Briton to settle disputes between Muslims.

So, if not from a news story, where did this information come from?

The Saint
21-04-2009, 11:54 AM
PatB I'm going to go with around 20 and say that the migrant status was a full citizen. Jack V Tongren, a bunch of bikie bombings and the Port Arthur bloke.Yeah but that last bloke mentioned couldn't have done it, remember - it was CIA operatives.

That's the smoking gun! Fucking immigrants!

Oring
21-04-2009, 11:56 AM
Well all I can say is wait till there is 100's of boats per month.
See what the "let them all in folks" say then when the country is overrun with them.

If ya want to come here, spend ya money applying and come through the correct channels and keep ya stupid fairytale religious ideas to yourself.

Australia is too soft.

T-roy
21-04-2009, 11:57 AM
So, if not from a news story, where did this information come from?


no need to fight something that isn't happening right

I'm not the only one paranoid about this happening.

Sharialawuk - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk (http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page17960)

richie_b
21-04-2009, 12:00 PM
2005 civil riots in France.

Who's to blame for that one?

mostly immigrants

i think it was a bit more complex than that. I believe there were and still are high rates of unemployment in france.

FYI, the UK and France have some of the biggest National Front movements in the world currently, so I guess you are correct in a lot of ways in that if we opened the flood gates it would probably breed a whole lot more racism.

xanthian
21-04-2009, 12:02 PM
I'm going to ... say that the migrant status was a full citizen. Jack V Tongren

But if it wasn't for the immigrants, he never would have committed the crime. UNDENIABLE PROOF THAT IMMIGRANTS CAUSE TERRORISM!

:rofl:

Taylor
21-04-2009, 12:05 PM
I'd love to hear an Aboriginal person's opinion on this topic.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 12:05 PM
no need to fight something that isn't happening right

Sharialawuk - epetition response | Number10.gov.uk (http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page17960)Some are the signatories are gold.

Jonny Johnson
JUNO
TJ
Dan
David B
Chris
Angus
Raj Marwa (brit cit)
faz
A. British Lion
stuart mhiclieod-ohogain
Lorraine H
sarah b
sandra
Osama bin Laden
a boss
MR TOUGH
Joanne c
Jas
PJ Lightning
Rita
BDO
Adam
bcb
SB

And my personal favourite, a Mr "once u give way then there no end look at the effect already happen no i'm not white", of Fulham.

not faz
21-04-2009, 12:21 PM
Saint you bastard did you sign me up for that shit?:lol:

D'Artagnan
21-04-2009, 12:22 PM
If we'd just stopped that first load of 'boat people' none of this would have happened.

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/37347/Asylum-seekers-/ozday.jpg

/sarcasm

T-roy
21-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Some are the signatories are gold.

Jonny Johnson
JUNO
TJ
Dan
David B
Chris
Angus
Raj Marwa (brit cit)
faz
A. British Lion
stuart mhiclieod-ohogain
Lorraine H
sarah b
sandra
Osama bin Laden
a boss
MR TOUGH
Joanne c
Jas
PJ Lightning
Rita
BDO
Adam
bcb
SB

And my personal favourite, a Mr "once u give way then there no end look at the effect already happen no i'm not white", of Fulham.

English people have a good sense of humor. :lol:

Jamathi
21-04-2009, 12:26 PM
With our political parties and the balance of power so tightly balanced the influx and subsequent broo's, sizze's, aunties and uncles reuniting with these cashed up quejumpers our balance of political power will come into the hands of the non christian minority group.
This is already the fact in holland, Germany, France and even UK.
Living under Muslim law in a country bthat has been a christian ruled entity is going to be a big ADJUSTMENT EVEN FOR THE BLEEDING HARTS here on this forum.
This is the real danger and the fact that these scumbags do not change and adopt our way of life.
There is a hidden agaenda behind this refo BS.
Losing/destroying your indentity papers so to have a better chance under our fucked up system proves it.
Mosks are sprouting up every where!
Some of you have been a burden on our social system.
**The biggest danger to democracy is democracy itself **

darth lefty
21-04-2009, 12:28 PM
I support the notion of developing communities for immigrants and suplpying them with the education, tools and welfare required to eventually assimilate. If it succeeds, it can only enrich our community. Boat people are far from the scourge of Australian waters that the media and the government would have us believe; growing up in Broome and frequently spending time at Willie Creek fishing (for those not in the know, that's where a large number of the boats and boat people are temporarily moored) and used to get a lot out of talking to the Indonesians "in detention" (it was also good to talk Indonesian with someone other than a school teacher). Look, at the end of the day, they're people which is something that I think a lot of people here are very quick to dismiss simply because of preconceived notions, implicit or explicit xenophobia and misplaced patriotism.

I'm not saying let them all in without reason, nor am I saying that we should do away with the legal procedure that migrants (there is a difference between migrants and refugees) go through, but for refugees there needs to be more leniency and definately more compassion.

richie_b
21-04-2009, 12:36 PM
**The biggest danger to democracy is democracy itself **

good job we don't live in a democracy then

not faz
21-04-2009, 12:51 PM
balance of political power will come into the hands of the non christian minority group.



I hope so! Why the hell do I have to put up with the Christian motivated politicians that are already prolific in Australia?

chew
21-04-2009, 12:57 PM
So we are a Christian based society. That would be Jesus Christ would it? Turn the other cheek, throw the money lenders and scibes out of the temple, nailed to a tree for saying "Lets be nice to each other for a change" (apologies to Douglas Adams) guy?

He would be rapt with the target practice option.

I think there is a war in Afghanistan/Iraq/Pakistan (Kashmir) by the way, so refugee would probably fit a lot of the boat people.

The other terrorist attack on our soil was in 1978 in Sydney. No convictions but the Ananda Marga sect was suspected as perpetrators. I think that the two suspects were both Aussies?

Bluebagger
21-04-2009, 01:16 PM
What gets up my goat is they way they travel through several countries and then choose to claim assylum in Australia. They were ok when they were in Indonesia but in Australia they claim political assylum. What a load of bollocks.

Australia should send them home immediatly. The government would save more money by having a monthly flight back to their home countries than housing and feeding them here, sometimes for years. Either that or they should be shipped back to Indonesia to be dealt with as a refugee. Then after a year or so, they would probably go home of their own accord.

I don't understand why muslims would leave a good muslim country like Indonesia to come and live in a christian society like ours. Other than all of the free shit we give them to live here.

Flakey
21-04-2009, 01:23 PM
There's a lot of work to do; Until you have seen what these people have been through, you have no idea.

We have a moral and legal obligation to help.
I'm in East Africa helping a community to develop and grow. It takes a long time, but they are a beautiful people here who deserve better than they have.

It's a hand up, not a hand out.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't understand why muslims would leave a good muslim country like Indonesia to come and live in a christian society like ours.Indonesia is a nominally secular presidential republic with strong conservative Islamic influence.

Australia is a nominally secular parliamentary democracy with mild conservative Christian influence.

Perhaps the Muslim asylum seekers are secularists?

T-roy
21-04-2009, 01:34 PM
They cant be that desperate. if they are willing to make that extra trip.

Rider
21-04-2009, 01:46 PM
What gets up my goat is they way they travel through several countries and then choose to claim assylum in Australia. They were ok when they were in Indonesia but in Australia they claim political assylum. What a load of bollocks.

Australia should send them home immediatly. The government would save more money by having a monthly flight back to their home countries than housing and feeding them here, sometimes for years. Either that or they should be shipped back to Indonesia to be dealt with as a refugee. Then after a year or so, they would probably go home of their own accord.

I don't understand why muslims would leave a good muslim country like Indonesia to come and live in a christian society like ours. Other than all of the free shit we give them to live here.

I think you will find that those who get all the free shit are your ''true bule aussies'' and asylum seekers/refugees are those that work their guts out and offent achive lot more than your avarage bogan whos 3rd generation Centerlink recipiant.

The Saint
21-04-2009, 01:50 PM
They had the third generation Centrelink recipient bogans on Four Corners last night - descendents of European migrants who lived in Nissen huts in the Illawarra. Economic downturns always hit that area hard.

I wonder how they tick both boxes Rider? Interbreeding with native lazy Aussies?

Diesal
21-04-2009, 01:58 PM
Please don't kill the thread Resist - I'm learning sooo much from the T-roy...

Maxo
21-04-2009, 01:58 PM
And on that note.

Continue here http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f20/itt-we-will-make-generalizations-present-opinions-no-basis-understanding-81711/8