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kriso
30-11-2009, 09:20 AM
Never voted Liberal but Malcom turnbull is showing some real character.
If there were more liberals like Malcolm the Liberal Party may actually be Liberal!

Don't like the rest of the party except Wilson Tuckey for novelty intrest..:D

Hockey is a fake, the rest are out of touch IMO.


Whats your thoughts?

Ferris
30-11-2009, 09:37 AM
Having an opinion on the "Character" of Politicians is a lot like winning gold in the Special Olympics. Either way, you're still retarded.

edit: if in doubt, see post #3.

Professor Redfern
30-11-2009, 09:43 AM
My thoughts are that politics is the lowest point of humanity.

Fat Pat
30-11-2009, 09:50 AM
Ha ha.:D

My theory?

MT is so pissed-off with how he was railroaded/screwed by (effectively) the libs in the republican "debate" that he vowed to become their leader and then white-ant them into oblivion.

Obviously he is too smart/scheming to be seen to be doing something so unseemly, so he concocted a plan to use that so typical Liberal tactic - The Wedge - to get them to eat themselves. The "Far Right" of the Liberal party have then taken that particular ball and are running far ahead of the pack. Undoubtedly he will lose the leadership ballot predicted for tomorrow and whomever leads the party next (Joe (http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/malcolmfarr/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/if_joe_wins_he_loses_and_caves_in_to_neanderthals/) Hockey (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/no-logic-in-liberals-climate-of-paranoia/story-e6frg6zo-1225805141503)?) will lose in a landslide - the pundits are talking "decade" in opposition if this plays out "well".

My "left field" prediction? MT then resigns from the Liberal party and joins Federal Labor. Forms part of the next 3 Labor governments and rises to the rank of Finance Minister:D

Now this may not sound so silly after all (well OK, just a little:lol:). You need to look at his seat. It's full of socially concious, economically literate, progressive voters - who expect (if not demand) an appropriate representative in Canberra - That is why MT is behaving the way he does, he's pretty "lefty" for the current Libs you'd have to agree? He won't toe the line that the right-wing hardliners are pushing - he is fact standing up to them pretty fiercely I feel. Ultimately, he will lose a leadership ballot and the Libs will consign themselves to at least 3 terms in opposition.B)

John Howard sure did leave a great "Legacy" didn't he?

Twinks
30-11-2009, 11:18 AM
Hockey is a fake, the rest are out of touch IMO.




Isn't that a prerequisite for being a pollie?

kriso
30-11-2009, 11:57 AM
^True that
Especially the new breed ie Rudd and Hockey.

Infusi0n
30-11-2009, 12:44 PM
No no, they are not out of touch, they are just in touch with the appropriate people. Campaign sponsers.

Mutiny!
30-11-2009, 12:50 PM
The best thing they can do is use Abbott, who is formidable enough to hold it down but is no serious candidate for alternative prime minister (this is the guy who as health minister refused to endorse the use of condoms). Save Hockey for after the election when he can begin to build up support for the next one.

That said, everyone is now expecting a landslide at the next election. A year is a pretty long time to forecast though and all Hockey would have to do is exceed expectations, even if he lost but it wasn't by as much as people expected it would be seen as a win for a party in disarray.

I voted labor last time, probably gonna vote for them again this time, but an ineffective opposition is a bad thing, whoever is in power.

Fat Pat
30-11-2009, 01:28 PM
That said, everyone is now expecting a landslide at the next election. A year is a pretty long time to forecast though and all Hockey would have to do is exceed expectations, even if he lost but it wasn't by as much as people expected it would be seen as a win for a party in disarray.

I voted labor last time, probably gonna vote for them again this time, but an ineffective opposition is a bad thing, whoever is in power.

Agree totally, but am wondering where the rampant PSB coalition supporters are today? John Howard had the senate for one term, and he surely did a job in that term, enough to (probably) consign the opposition to just that for three terms.

Our system works best when there is an effective opposition, and the Libs don't even seem to be bothering - with open power politicking going on over there - fundamentally fighting over a few crumbs. If they're not careful, they could end up like the canadian political party that lost government and ended up with just two seat after an election - can't think of it's name just now, but they went from government to just two seats at a recent election (Progressive-Conservative Party?).

If the Libs aren't careful, and let the hard right of their party determine the agenda, they could almost end up like the Canucks! Already a few long-term political writers are talking about this issue in terms of the Labor split of 1958.

Interesting times indeed.

Mutiny!
30-11-2009, 03:04 PM
The Libs aren't going to disappear, it just can't happen. Worst case scenario is they split into two parties which then end up working together on most things anyway. There will always be a vote of at least 40% plus going to a conservative party and at the moment there is no viable conservative alternative. Family first? Lord Jesus I fucking hope not, though they may actually do pretty well this time around for that very reason.

If Labor was in a similar position it would be more interesting, the greens, though a long way from it at the moment, could conceivably be elevated to a position as the alternative government, or at least be a part of a left wing coalition. The Democrats could have done it a few years ago, though not anymore obviously.

I don't think the situation in the coalition is as dire as some are suggesting. They shuffle around, stab a few backs, sack a few people then shake hands and get on with it. They are acting like douchenozzles and taking their supporters for granted. Fortunately for them they can afford to.

shmoo
30-11-2009, 03:11 PM
Is Joe Hockey really that bad? I've always had the impression that he is the sort of person who would get a fair bit of support from the public.

I reckon he could attract no liberal types to the party, admittedly most likely at the expense of some of the die hard old school supporters.

Mutiny!
30-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Is Joe Hockey really that bad? I've always had the impression that he is the sort of person who would get a fair bit of support from the public.

I reckon he could attract no liberal types to the party, admittedly most likely at the expense of some of the die hard old school supporters.

Yeah, he is the best prospect they have at the moment, and I have no particular problem with him, though I don't see him as a particularly impressive individual.

Problem is they will be weakening his position straight off the bat when he gets creamed in his first election, he may find it hard to come back from that ih which case they will have wasted their best talent by setting him up for a fall.

Anyone think that might be Abbott's play? We're gonna lose this election anyway so better him than me? Maybe set himself up for a challenge further down the line when they are back on their feet, but Hockey has lost an election (or two)? They are long term thinkers these dudes.

dr00
30-11-2009, 03:42 PM
whats with this bastardisation of any kind of right wing idea being called "hard right"? some how the leftys have managed to define "hard right" as anything that isnt "left". read the "our beliefs" page on their website, they are a right wing party. that means they are supposed to believe in right wing stuff. having two parties that are equally left of centre as each other doesnt serve any purpose whatsoever. we've got one labor party, we dont need a second one.

what turnbull doesnt seem to understand is that he is not supposed to develop/support/attack policies according to what voters want. he is supposed to do it according to his parties convictions and ideology. if that puts the party "out of touch" with the voters then so be it. its amazing that vote chasing is so ingrained and normalised now that politicians dont try to hide it and the public now demands it of them.

Mr DJ
30-11-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm still waiting for the day that political parties are abolished and consigned to the scrap heap of history. I'm certain we'd be better off with a collective of independents, chosen from the population according to their capabilities.

I reckon twice as much work would get done, with decisions made on what is best for the people rather than two opposing ideaologies. I can't stand seeing opposition to a great idea purely on the point of having a party based/political need to argue against it...it's pathetic, childish muppet behaviour!

dr00
30-11-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm still waiting for the day that political parties are abolished and consigned to the scrap heap of history. I'm certain we'd be better off with a collective of independents, chosen from the population according to their capabilities.

I reckon twice as much work would get done, with decisions made on what is best for the people rather than two opposing ideaologies. I can't stand seeing opposition to a great idea purely on the point of having a party based/political need to argue against it...it's pathetic, childish muppet behaviour!

ive never understood the aversion people have to ideology. ideologue is used as an insult now. an ideology is just a big picture view of the way you think things would work best. its essentially a set of principles you use to guide you in day to day decisions, or a framework. the exact problem with politicians is that they are too superficial. they chase votes and change their mind on a whim because they have no convictions.

you will never avoid the fundamental differences in ideology though that every person sits somewhere on the spectrum between "the government should run everything and make all decisions for everyone" and "the government should run nothing and individuals should make their own decisions."

Bluebagger
30-11-2009, 07:58 PM
I would like to see Iron Bar Tuckey win the vote tomorrow. Probably not running, but he would be fantastic for entertainment value. You are never left wondering what is on his mind :)

dr00
01-12-2009, 08:15 AM
woo, abbott now has the reins. hopefully he can drag the party back over from the centre left. brace yourselves for all the lefty media condemning the liberals to decades in opposition. when rudd's big house of cards starts to crumble the public will be looking for an alternative and what better alternative than the party that has tidied up the labor mess time and time again.

FJ Steve
01-12-2009, 08:26 AM
woo, abbott now has the reins. hopefully he can drag the party back over from the centre left. brace yourselves for all the lefty media condemning the liberals to decades in opposition. when rudd's big house of cards starts to crumble the public will be looking for an alternative and what better alternative than the party that has tidied up the labor mess time and time again.Yep Abbott is in. But I do agree with the previous comments. He is the "patsy" for the next election.

The move by Hockey for a "conscience vote" by the Liberals regarding ETS was merely an insurance to be sure that he would not get the job at this time. Joe's smart....he will be getting prepped and readied by his minders to step up after the next election.

As for MT going to Labour. He was a candidate at a bi-election some time ago.................and he was the Labour candidate. Stranger things have happened in politics. Search Kevin Lyons and Angus Bethune (Tasmanian Politics)...makes interesting reading. How a Labour high flyer defected after the votes were counted, to ensure that the Libs got into power. His reward? Position of Deputy Premier.

Mutiny!
01-12-2009, 08:50 AM
Yep Abbott is in. But I do agree with the previous comments. He is the "patsy" for the next election.


I'm pretty stoked Abbott got up. I have enough faith in the Australian public to believe they won't vote that guy in as PM. It also saves Hockey's run for some time after the next election when he has a chance of building some support. He'll come in as the youthful and engaged alternative for the opposition leadership, already with a pretty big fan base, and he might have a genuine crack at the next one.

I wonder if that is actually the plan? Abbott is not stupid, he must know he won't get the votes (unless ego gets the better of him), hopefully he steps aside later on without doing more damage to a wounded party.


woo, abbott now has the reins. hopefully he can drag the party back over from the centre left. brace yourselves for all the lefty media condemning the liberals to decades in opposition.

Come on man, the "liberal media" is a myth invented by Rupert Murdoc and Bill O'Reiley, you really want to line up behind those guys?

Bias to the right? 'Yeah right' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/03/2675819.htm)

Sean'o
01-12-2009, 09:00 AM
Well if they are prepping Hockey for the election after next, he better loose some weight. I'm not voting for a fat politician.

rgvlee
01-12-2009, 09:02 AM
I dunno sean, maybe he will just buy a bigger suit to fit into?

Mutiny!
01-12-2009, 09:05 AM
Well if they are prepping Hockey for the election after next, he better loose some weight. I'm not voting for a fat politician.

He will.

Fat Pat
01-12-2009, 09:42 AM
I'm pretty stoked Abbott got up. I have enough faith in the Australian public to believe they won't vote that guy in as PM. It also saves Hockey's run for some time after the next election when he has a chance of building some support. He'll come in as the youthful and engaged alternative for the opposition leadership, already with a pretty big fan base, and he might have a genuine crack at the next one.

I wonder if that is actually the plan? Abbott is not stupid, he must know he won't get the votes (unless ego gets the better of him), hopefully he steps aside later on without doing more damage to a wounded party.

My predictions:

Tony (I'm "Mr People Skills") Abbot will lead the Libs to defeat at the next election, continually dodging questions as to why he initially supported an ETS, only to flip to the other side, then not allow his party a conscience vote on the subject. Joe Hockey will be encouraged to put his hand up and be the "rights" new golden boy to "rebuild the party". He will shilly-shally and become the new Peter Costello (man with no spine) and the roundabout will continue.

Post-Copenhagen, Abbott will be guided by Nick Minchin into finding another way to oppose AGW/ETS issues and the party will have a massive split, leading to a "Broad-Ranging" enquiry commissionined by said Nick Minchin (with a suitable hamstrung terms of reference, to ensure he can't be blamed for all the divisions he helped engineer).

I actually think that Labor may not proceed with a DD election, as they may wish to see the Libs wriggle on their own stick for another 10 months.

One thing is for sure, it's going to be an interesting time in politics going forward.

Tony Abbott is the Liberal Party's Mark Latham.

dr00
01-12-2009, 09:57 AM
Tony (I'm "Mr People Skills") Abbot will lead the Libs to defeat at the next election, continually dodging questions as to why he initially supported an ETS, only to flip to the other side, then not allow his party a conscience vote on the subject.

yeah fucking open minded politicians. make your decision and close your mind ffs!

shmoo
01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
IMHO Abbott is a sacrificial lamb, put up by Liberal power brokers because they know that no matter who is leader, they will lose the next election. Then Abbott will be ousted and Hockey will swing in and save the Libs. At least I think thats their plan.

The Saint
01-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Tony Abbott topples Malcolm Turnbull as Opposition Leader

At first I lol'd

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/69945/Turnbull-thread/thur%20(6)-600x400.jpg

But then I was like "patience, Christopher my pet, patience ... bide your time ... one day all this will be yours"

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/69946/Turnbull-thread/rgn_pyne_wideweb__470x305,0.jpg