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CitizenD
13-12-2009, 10:15 PM
As the title suggests.

Ernie Dingo blames whites for Aboriginal drinking | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/ernie-dingo-blames-whites-for-aboriginal-drinking/story-e6frfmvr-1225809776726)


"We (indigenous people) don't have a problem. Our problem is to say 'no' to you blokes, to white people ... 'no' is not really part of our cultural background.Explains the rampant rape in your communities I guess.

drifter
13-12-2009, 10:22 PM
taking responsibility for your own actions?
no, that is way to hard.
blame the white men.

g0zer
13-12-2009, 10:23 PM
He is right about closet drinkers vs drinking in public

No one would care if people want to end their lives leaving las vegas style in the privacy of their own homes

Its when it interferes with others going about their daily business that it becomes a problem
Posted via Mobile Device

CitizenD
13-12-2009, 10:29 PM
I wonder if per capita anglo-Australian alcoholism is still greater than indigenous Australian alcoholism.

Awesome to see a bloke that has enjoyed all of the benefits of European settlement to a far greater degree than many of us, can still blame whitey without so much as batting an eyelid.

So I wonder what Ernie's solution is.

Professor Redfern
13-12-2009, 10:31 PM
I have been raging about this all Day Cit, I always thought he had a brain but now I have lost all respect for him.

If I refused to serve alcohol to an aboriginal I would have abo legal services at my door so quickly suing me for discrimination.

I guess its the white mans fault for selling glue and petrol as well.

Sentry
13-12-2009, 10:34 PM
I can't really take a footballer-come-television presenters opinion seriously. As much as he seems intelligent enough on tv, comments like this make you wonder. As it has been previously stated in this thread, it must be too hard for them to be responsible for their own actions.

drifter
13-12-2009, 10:34 PM
if he was dead-set against it, he would never have taken on the role in the film.
i'll bet he waited for his pay-cheque before he said anything about it.

malenko
13-12-2009, 10:36 PM
What a douche, if we give them money to buy food and they spend it on booze, you cant possibly blame the government. I am sorry for giving them some responisbility about how they live, but if you spend all your money on booze then you have the problem.

It annoys me how they keep wanting to be treated like the "white man" but then in the same breath demand to be treated differently too. They have the same opertunities as any one else does but they choose not to embrace them and instead live off the government. BTW I am not talking about ALL aboriginals either, its just the ones with the white man problem.

CitizenD
13-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Just to be clear, I haven't intended this to be a condemnation of our indigenous brethren. Just one of them.

As you were.

malenko
13-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Doesn't it piss you off how its gotten so bad you have to put in the "this is only a generalistion, I know there are good aboriginals out there" disclaimer, fuck it, why dont they stand up and prove they dont fit the norm of the alcoholics? I am sick of having to defend them from themselves. If they want to be looked upon in any sort of positive light they are going to need to start the initiative.

The Saint
13-12-2009, 10:43 PM
we

them

they

them

they

they

They

they

themHow very divisive. :)

malenko
13-12-2009, 10:48 PM
It sure is saint, I am sick of hearing all the blame it on the white man bullshit, like that tragic story of the child that got electricuted cos there was a hole in the wall... fix the damn hole yourself, I am sure there is something that could have been put there to prevent the accident, stack the slabs of vb there to cover the hole or something.

The Saint
13-12-2009, 10:50 PM
So you're personally offended as a white man?

Or do you think that the "blame the white man" argument is objectively bullshit?

WIGARUS
13-12-2009, 10:51 PM
yeah, RCD's don't really do anything anyway.

malenko
13-12-2009, 10:53 PM
a little of both,

Personally offended because I cop it when I walk through the city in the morning when I am called a white cunt just because I am walking by.

And also its objectively bullshit because it doesnt seem that they do much for themselves or their own image in society, but are quick to blame the white man when the issue gets bought up, like, for example what ernie dingo says here

The Saint
13-12-2009, 10:55 PM
You're genuinely surprised and personally offended as a white man when a black man calls you a white dog cunt because you won't give him a smoke?

Are you serious?

malenko
13-12-2009, 10:57 PM
Not suprised but I do take offense when people swear at me like that yes. It pisses me off more than anything else.

WIGARUS
13-12-2009, 10:57 PM
whoa! my sarcasm comes out way better when its in italics... I should do that next time :P

CitizenD
13-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Not suprised but I do take offense when people swear at me like that yes. It pisses me off more than anything else.

Do you notice it more when they are non-white?

Sentry
13-12-2009, 11:04 PM
whoa! my sarcasm comes out way better when its in italics... I should do that next time :P

I'm tired and don't generally pick up sarcasm too well anyway :P Carry on.

The Saint
13-12-2009, 11:07 PM
I can't really take a footballer-come-television presenters opinion seriously.He's a what now? :confused:

malenko
13-12-2009, 11:08 PM
Do you notice it more when they are non-white?

No I dont notice it more, I take offense when ANYONE swears at me like that, but I dont see the problem with that, you go into northbridge and walk up to some one and start abusing them like that and see how you end up.

The Saint
13-12-2009, 11:09 PM
OK so you take offence to the abusive language and threatening tone.

Not the "blame whitey" political argument.

CitizenD
13-12-2009, 11:13 PM
I like the "blame whitey" arguments. Makes me feel like my team is getting shit done.

malenko
13-12-2009, 11:15 PM
OK so you take offence to the abusive language and threatening tone.

Yes


Not the "blame whitey" political argument.

And this just pisses me off. Why blame the government when it is you that puts holes in your walls, when it is you that spends your money on booze and not food, when you cant put things in the bin and live in a pig sty.

My problem is the fact there is no personal responsibility.

The Saint
13-12-2009, 11:24 PM
So you're personally offended as a white man on behalf of an elected secular multicultural federal government?

malenko
13-12-2009, 11:32 PM
So you're personally offended as a white man on behalf of an elected secular multicultural federal government?

haha nice try.

I am not offended on any ones behalf, It just pisses me off when people dont take responsibility for their actions and look to blame other people. If you cant handle your own money, then thats your problem, no one elses, if your an alcoholic, that is your problem no one elses, this goes for no matter who you are, I have these same feelings about white trash junkies aswell, the only person that can solve these problems are you, by seeking help, not pushing the blame to onto another, eg the government.

Thats all from me in this thread, I have made my feelings on the topic known and there is no point continuing it.

Barfridge
13-12-2009, 11:48 PM
Ok, this thread gets one chance:
- no more racial slurs, or it's gone
- no more stereotyping a whole race of people. Everyone is different, it's not like they're Chinese (see what I did there?)

I'm hanging out for the day PSB can have an intelligent and mature debate about a subject like this...


Ebony And Ivory live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my piano keyboard oh lord why dont we?

We all know that people are the same where ever you go
there is good and bad in everyone
we learn to live we learn to give each other what we need to survive together alive

Ebony and Ivory live together in perfect harmony
side by side on my piano keybard oh lord why dont we?

Ebony,Ivory living in pefect harmony
Ebony,Ivory oh..

We all know that people are the same where ever you go
there is good and bad in everyone
we learn to live when we learn to give each other what we need to survive
together alive

Eboony and Ivory live together in perfect harmony
side by side on my piano keyboard oh lord why dont we?
side by side on my piano keyboard oh lord why dont we?

IGS
13-12-2009, 11:52 PM
God damn white folk, sick of you Barfy.

Semi
13-12-2009, 11:54 PM
Ok, this thread gets one chance:
- no more racial slurs, or it's gone
- no more stereotyping a whole race of people. Everyone is different, it's not like they're Chinese (see what I did there?)

I'm hanging out for the day PSB can have an intelligent and mature debate about a subject like this...

Is it stereotyping when I say that most of the aboriginals I've met have been abusive, selfish, disgusting pricks?

Taz
14-12-2009, 12:00 AM
i just hate pricks asking me for a smoke in hay street mall then call me a white cunt when i dont give them a smoke.... i dont carry fucking smokes on me

i know i am a white cunt...tell me something new

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 12:07 AM
*sigh* So somebody called you a name once, boo fucking hoo.

Stop for a second and think why. They are a group of people born into poverty, written off as useless from birth, and are just conforming to your expectations of them.

So, moving on from there, what can be done to improve the situation?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 12:09 AM
Boycott anything featuring Ernie Dingo?

JuanPablo
14-12-2009, 12:12 AM
Ok, this thread gets one chance:
- no more racial slurs, or it's gone
- no more stereotyping a whole race of people. Everyone is different, it's not like they're Chinese (see what I did there?)

I'm hanging out for the day PSB can have an intelligent and mature debate about a subject like this...

Normally I'd agree with you barf, but Ernie had his opportunity earlier today and did exactly what you've mentioned, to a far wider audience.

JuanPablo
14-12-2009, 12:14 AM
So, moving on from there, what can be done to improve the situation?

^

This is good.

But I honestly don't know. A lot has been tried without success.

EDIT: I do know.

1. No blanket stance of 'money will take care of it'. Identify those things that are needed (groceries, education, clothes etc). It can be reclaimed by welfare IF necessary. (See No. 2)
2. Work. If you're not working, you're not paying tax, and you're not entitled to fish without permits or make land claims because of 'scar trees' that look suspiciously like surveyors marks. (Sadly, yes)
3. No special rights. If you're being an arsehole you should be treated as an arsehole and arrested by the same cop that would arrest old white mate under the same circumstances.
4. Get the fucking chip off your shoulder.

So there you have it. A 4 step process for a harmonious humankind.

Weapon_X
14-12-2009, 12:17 AM
I think if the goverment throws some more money at the problem it should just go away, we have to be close by now :p

there is no easy answer Barfy, but I do think we have dug ourselves quite the hole in monitarty support and will have a tough time removing that with solutions and getting the mindset changed. I doubt we will see it properly in our lifetime. I've been to a couple communities up north and it's sad. The priorities are all wrong and there is no financial future for a community 200 kms to the next town. Just sad.

Back on Ernie, don't pin that on us! No one is holding a gun to your head and a bottle to your lips!

JuanPablo
14-12-2009, 02:45 AM
I just realised my first post has been scrapped without explanation. Is this Australia's new internet filter in testing?

wannabee
14-12-2009, 03:40 AM
I just realised my first post has been scrapped without explanation. Is this Australia's new internet filter in testing?

They tend to do that if it is too offensive, purely aimed to cause an arguement, etc etc


Stop for a second and think why. They are a group of people born into poverty, written off as useless from birth, and are just conforming to your expectations of them.

So, moving on from there, what can be done to improve the situation?

Barfy, yes i agree with you. Alot of them are born and written off, however there are many out there, and a few that i have had the privilege to meet that have taken the challenge and said they want to be better than that, and have become successful and changed their lives.
Everyone has a strong will, and can achieve whatever they want, however if you have something to prove, and a desire that is only multiplied by this, than you really become unstoppable...

But there is a point where the children have that dream, and desire, but they are taught by the older generations that they dont need to fulfil that dream to survive, that they are able to take hand outs and live that way, without having to put in that work...
This is where the vicious circle starts again... They grow up and teach their children the same...

I have always had a great respect for indigenous role models such as Wiripanda and Ernie Dingo. I grew up when Ernie was everywhere, and had respect for the massive opportunities available to him to change that circle for many indigenous children, however he has saddened me with the abuse of that power and simply started the circle again for the next generation...

Sadly, i fear that it will be some time before we see a true reconciliation between our cultures...

Xuaxace
14-12-2009, 04:30 AM
Reading an article (http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-alcohol-consumption.html) I stumbled this

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/71801/Fuck-Ernie-Dingo-/frequencyOfDrinking.gif

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/71802/Fuck-Ernie-Dingo-/alcohol-relatedCrimeExposure.jpg


I have worked at Mcdonalds drive thru at night for 7 months, I got my fair share of ''white'' and ''aborigal'', both drunks or sober. Firstly I have to say that before working there I had never had an issue with aborignals.

My ''findings''

Drunk white people, they talk a lot of shit when they are drunk, try to be cool with their friends, but that is where it ends 99% of the time.

Aboriginals in the other hand, most of them extremely confrontational and abusive. Been called names a lot of the time, made fun of my accent... blabla.

If you didn't serve them ASAP and to the best of your ability they would go NUTS, and not in the good way. They would try to get free stuff, complain about their order when THEY HAD ORDERED WRONG and they would get fired up and violent straight away if I didn't give in to their bullshit. The list goes on, and the fact that many came late at night, drinking with their call full of bottles and then buying happy meals for their kids at 3 in the morning...... I will leave it at that.

90% of aboriginal customers where extremly undesirable and most of them intoxicated. They couldn't handle their piss.

19andrew59
14-12-2009, 05:12 AM
So, moving on from there, what can be done to improve the situation?

"We don't have a drinking problem at all.
"The Aboriginal drinking problem is white people selling to them."
(Ernie Dingo)

Anybody else remember when it was illegal for indigenous persons to be sold, given or in possession of alcohol? Anybody else remember the bleeding hearts and indigenous community shouting to the rooftops that this was a violation of their rights? Anybody else remember the government of the day caving in and allowing the sale of alcohol to indigenous persons? Anybody else see the harm this has caused? If however, 'we', the whitey suggest that alcohol sales / possession should be restricted in 'problem' areas / communities, we are once again RACIST WHITE DOG CUNTS!!!
While 'our' government is too panty waisted and splineless to stand up for the majority and instead, cater / pander to the minority, the situation will never change. This is not only about the indigenous 'issues', but the handling of all minority / 'disadvantaged' (a term / description I find over used) groups. The old adage, the squeaky wheel gets the grease is so true and is shown time and again when knee jerk decisions are made in an attempt to silence the wheel with no thought to further / future damage or consequences..

potato
14-12-2009, 05:23 AM
eh? whats the fuss?

ernie's probably going to run for a seat in some local govt by-election.

best way to raise your public profile?

use a worn out standard statement.

kenty
14-12-2009, 06:32 AM
100 years ago white man was above the not so white man

today not so white man is above the white man

Welcome to PC Australia

What we are dealing with is reverse racism I don't go out looking for fights or abuse it comes to me because of something my "ancestors" did way back when, not to sound wierd but it is bred into them now the way they act, I recon they should rather then money be given food enough for the family and that's it if they want to buy other stuff let them get a job and stop abusing the system

just for the record this is a group of indiginious ipeople I appreciate the fact that there are some good role models out the but you would be hard pressed to find them as they don't stand out and yell abuse at you,

violence against men Australia says no ^_^

kenty
14-12-2009, 06:33 AM
ernie's probably going to run for a seat in some local govt by-election.

don't you have to make friends/allies to do this?

Ferris
14-12-2009, 06:56 AM
Years ago, I used to be the sole whitey on a aboriginal exploration drilling company.

GREAT blokes, I had all the time in the world for them, and them for me.

Until they drank.

Scarey as fuck, as a race they are genetically pre-disposed to not being able to hold their piss.

Keep them off the booze, and you have as decent a race as any other. It's just a bloody shame (for them) that we live in a society that adores alcohol.

chew
14-12-2009, 07:20 AM
Seemed to me he was having a go at the hypocritical nature of our WASP based society more than anything.

Matso
14-12-2009, 07:25 AM
The earlier posters show that they totally believe that what Ernie said was quoted word for word by the media and know what context he said it in?

Then possibly in other threads they shit can the press for misconstruing what people say and represent, especially anything against motorcyclist.

Go figure!

jules_1972
14-12-2009, 07:28 AM
So what are you trying to say??

Hypocritical?

MuNch
14-12-2009, 07:50 AM
im confused by your post. ^^

jules_1972
14-12-2009, 08:01 AM
Post is about as serious as the Australian Government.

Ernie will slot in just fine next to Peter Garrett.

thro
14-12-2009, 08:10 AM
Is it stereotyping when I say that most of the aboriginals I've met have been abusive, selfish, disgusting pricks?


Most of the white people I've met have been abusive, selfish disgusting pricks, too?

Roger Explosion
14-12-2009, 08:20 AM
^^^
+100.

jules_1972
14-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Most of the white people I've met have been abusive, selfish disgusting pricks, too?


Hell yeah!!!


Well Said.

:rolleyes:

Bluebagger
14-12-2009, 08:31 AM
I can't really take a footballer-come-television presenters opinion seriously.

Ernie was just reading off the wrong auto-que card?

Bluebagger
14-12-2009, 08:38 AM
But seriously, the problem with Ernie's statement is that he stops short of providing a solution to the problem. We all know there is a problem. The problem will not go away. Something needs to be done and this sort of statement does not help.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 08:43 AM
OK here is the ONLY solution to reducing the abuse, rape, molestation, alcoholism that is rampant in the aborigional community.

NO SALES OF ALCOHOL TO THEM EVER AGAIN.

NO ABORIGIONAL IS ALLOWED TO USE THE WHITE MAN LAW AGAIN. TO BLAME THE WHITE MAN FOR HIS/HER PREDICAMENT.

ANY ABORIGIONAL CHILD FOUND TO BE NEGLECTED, ABUSED, MOLESTED IS TO BE REMOVED FROM THAT ABUSIVE ENVIRONMENT AND PLACED IN A CARING AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

ANY ABORIGIONAL FOUND TO BE GUILTY OF THE ABOVE ABUSE TO A CHILD IS TO BE SENTENCED BY TRADITIONAL ABORIGIONAL LAW.

ALL ABORIGIONAL CHILDREN TO BE EDUCATED IN BOTH THEIR TRADITIONAL WAY OF LIFE. NO BENEFITS FROM SO CALLED ''EVIL WHITE MAN''

ALL ABORIGIONALS TO BE TAUGHT PRIDE IN THEMSELVES AND PRIDE IN THEIR PEOPLE AND CULTURE.

Sorry...what I just cannot understand is this. I grew up poor, I grew up abused but i went to school, didnt blame anyone else and got on with improving my circumstances. I will not blame anyone else for my failures, nor will I credit anyone else for my sucesses. I pay my Taxes, I pay my mortgage without government assistance. I dont ask the government for anything.

Aborigional elders need to take control and demand from their people. No white man can do this...no police, no half caste lawyers, no councellors sent by the government to show them...ABORIGIONAL ELDERS.

The Prime Minister said the magic words Ernie. Now go and be active as an elder in your community and teach your community instead of playing the same old record of blaming white man from 100's of years ago.

Roger Explosion
14-12-2009, 08:54 AM
Blame the French.

Joe Shabadoo
14-12-2009, 09:09 AM
i'm a white cunt
when I drink too much, I become an absolute fucking disgrace to myself, my race, my family, and my friends
so I limit the frequency of this occuring, so that people don't label me as a fucked up useless waste of oxygen

however the application of such a label by a member of the public who doesn't know me better would not be a suprise or offence

Mizer
14-12-2009, 10:45 AM
FG..........................:thumbsup:

Im with you

Bluebandit
14-12-2009, 12:19 PM
I like a lot of your points Fastgirl and think that something similar to what you have proposed is the best solution suggested so far;..... BUT you've just proposed the use of two paralell separate justice systems within Australia.

What then happens when every other culture in Australian modern society wants the right to use their own laws to deal with their own community troubles? We'd have to have a separate Islamic legal system, Jewish, mafia (they are not all crooks - are/were also the only form of law in some central european societies), and so on. Unfortunately there can only be one legal system. Maybe current laws can be amended to take into account ethnic background?

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 12:34 PM
The rest are not an indingenous people.

darth lefty
14-12-2009, 12:37 PM
OK here is the ONLY solution to reducing the abuse, rape, molestation, alcoholism that is rampant in the aborigional community.

No it isn't a solution, it's an abandonment.


NO SALES OF ALCOHOL TO THEM EVER AGAIN.

Accommodating the lowest denominator doesn't work. Besides that, it drives/encourages/catalyses the use of something else.


NO ABORIGIONAL IS ALLOWED TO USE THE WHITE MAN LAW AGAIN. TO BLAME THE WHITE MAN FOR HIS/HER PREDICAMENT.


It's not a "white man law". It applies equally to people of all walks of life within Australia. Referring to it as you have is only further divisive and hardly helps.


ANY ABORIGIONAL CHILD FOUND TO BE NEGLECTED, ABUSED, MOLESTED IS TO BE REMOVED FROM THAT ABUSIVE ENVIRONMENT AND PLACED IN A CARING AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

Sounds like another stolen generation.


ANY ABORIGIONAL FOUND TO BE GUILTY OF THE ABOVE ABUSE TO A CHILD IS TO BE SENTENCED BY TRADITIONAL ABORIGIONAL LAW.

Found guilty by who? And guilty to whose laws?


ALL ABORIGIONAL CHILDREN TO BE EDUCATED IN BOTH THEIR TRADITIONAL WAY OF LIFE. NO BENEFITS FROM SO CALLED ''EVIL WHITE MAN''

Both? You only offered us one form of education. Are you just ranting now?


ALL ABORIGIONALS TO BE TAUGHT PRIDE IN THEMSELVES AND PRIDE IN THEIR PEOPLE AND CULTURE.

It exists. Not in Hyde Park, nor Gosnells. Nor on Frederick St in Broome, Halls Creek or Fitzroy Crossing, it exists in the smaller communities. Bidyadanga for one... but who can honestly teach pride? Culture similarly, it isn't something you learn, it's something you live.


Sorry...what I just cannot understand is this. I grew up poor, I grew up abused but i went to school, didnt blame anyone else and got on with improving my circumstances. I will not blame anyone else for my failures, nor will I credit anyone else for my sucesses. I pay my Taxes, I pay my mortgage without government assistance. I dont ask the government for anything.

Well good for you. The fact that you don't have two hundred years of racial prejudice and stereotyping against you, coupled with two moderately recent generations of cultural scarcity through the forced removal of children from their homes has probably stood in a degree of good stead, from a relativistic standpoint.

If you really wish to compare your plight to theirs though, who am I to argue.


Aborigional elders need to take control and demand from their people. No white man can do this...no police, no half caste lawyers, no councellors sent by the government to show them...ABORIGIONAL ELDERS.

What, the same ones that were kidnapped and taught how to be white? Good luck.

Finally, FYI, it's Aboriginal.

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Aboriginal people often drink in groups but not to socialise. Rather, a group of drinkers ensures that there is always someone who can provide money for the next purchase of drinks.


The problem of drinking is aggravated by the fact that the various pensions and allowances by the government are paid on different days. Even if a drinker spent all pension money his financial 'drought' would be broken with the next government payment. Paydays have always been the heaviest drinking days.




Indigenous alcohol abuse is motivated by


the breakdown of traditional social control mechanisms,
a lack of means for establishing and ritually enacting (through ceremonies) group identity,
a lack of traditional rules for alcohol consumption behaviours (as existed before invasion),
the culturally infused sharing ethos (Aboriginal people share resources most of the times),
resistance to imposed controls on Aboriginal society,
a lack of processes for reducing tensions and frustrations occurring as a result of

poverty
unemployment
discrimination
racism
boredom
dislocation.





Sounds like life on Austudy.

So strict controls occurred before white settlement and now they don't. Did white intervention erode these traditional controls? Can we put them back? What will the cost be?

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 01:00 PM
.

bangbang
14-12-2009, 01:11 PM
Lefty, you trollin'

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 01:18 PM
Sounds like another stolen generation.

The apology has been made for the stolen generation...why the hell is that the only comback given ?. You are saying, leave the molested/abused kid in the situation because for godsakes its not as bad as stolen generation. How about you look again, I didnt say take the kids to a WHITE safe and caring environment.



It exists. Not in Hyde Park, nor Gosnells. Nor on Frederick St in Broome, Halls Creek or Fitzroy Crossing, it exists in the smaller communities. Bidyadanga for one... but who can honestly teach pride? Culture similarly, it isn't something you learn, it's something you live.

Good to know it exists. Why isnt Ernie pushing for these programs to be more recorgnised? Why is he not showing us all that?

Well good for you. The fact that you don't have two hundred years of racial prejudice and stereotyping against you, coupled with two moderately recent generations of cultural scarcity through the forced removal of children from their homes has probably stood in a degree of good stead, from a relativistic standpoint.

No baby is born with hate in their hearts. They are taught. They are taught to feel hate and show hate and continue the cycle. By who? Not me...not the government...their parents. When will the parents be accountable? When will they stop throwing the blame our way and start saying instead...ok I have free education, I will use it. I have free health care, I will use it. I have free housing, I will care for it. I have been given the tools to make the change in my community..I will do it.

If you really wish to compare your plight to theirs though, who am I to argue.

I DO compare, because I DID suffer. But I dont blame you, or blame the government for it. I dont make YOU pay for me, I dont demand ANYTHING.



What, the same ones that were kidnapped and taught how to be white? Good luck.

Finally, FYI, it's Aboriginal.

Taught to be white? Taught to read is to be white? Taught to be accountable is to be white? Taught to make a change in their own community is to be white? Well fuck me that sounds racists dont it?


And if you are trolling...well done hero...you won. Here is your medal.

kenty
14-12-2009, 01:32 PM
i dont think this can be solved by anyone but themselves, its their problem and they need to fix it, i mean like there are champs like barfy and OD, who have decided they aint happy with the way THEY are, so they are changing,

like the norm all they are doing is pushing the blame onto someone else and until someone publicly tells them to get fucked its their fault and no-one elses will nothing change....ever

shmoo
14-12-2009, 01:35 PM
i dont think this can be solved by anyone but themselves, its their problem and they need to fix it, i mean like there are champs like barfy and OD, who have decided they aint happy with the way THEY are, so they are changing,

like the norm all they are doing is pushing the blame onto someone else and until someone publicly tells them to get fucked its their fault and no-one elses will nothing change....ever
we aren't going to get anywhere with this "us and them" mentality.

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 01:37 PM
FG I dont believe Lefty said that they were born like that. Bred like that maybe as breeding takes into account the way they are raised which you have also agreed with.

I think Ernie Dingo is pathetic for trying to blame other people for the aboriginals unfortunate demise due to the effects of alcohol but we can't single them out as that would be racism and we wouldn't be happy if it was done that way in return.

I do actually agree with where you are coming from though, all they (and yes this is a generalisation and not all of them are like this) do is syphon public money,spend it on alchol, fail to further themselves and then complain about the government not doing enough for them.

What the solution is i have no idea, a dry country would actually solve a lot of issues in Australia but why should everyone suffer for the faults of a few?
Imagine a country without cigarettes and alcohol... public health systems would run at a much lower cost but unemployment would rise due to all the nurses being no longer needed :P

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 01:40 PM
Imagine a country without cigarettes and alcohol... public health systems would run at a much lower cost but unemployment would rise due to all the nurses being no longer needed :P

I'm sure the amount of people burned by exploding methlabs and backyard stills will keep them busy.

Bootlegging will never be stopped.

Joe Shabadoo
14-12-2009, 01:42 PM
FG, not sure what you're proposing, but it sounds a lot like apartheid. The blacks have separate laws, separate standards, expectations, and treatment vs the whites - because the whites are/know better

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 01:45 PM
I say we build them a Gallery as the center piece of a new foreshore development.

I think that might finally stop all this blame and resentment and really turn their culture around.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 01:46 PM
well brendon you better read again.

What Im saying is the Aboriginal community seem to blame US all for their problems..Im saying...ok use YOUR laws to deal with it. I will never say that an Aboriginal is any less than me or mine...ever. And if my post inferred that...im sorry. I am not racist, but I am sick of people black or white not taking responsibility and making a positive change...instead of pointing fingers.

Here is what I see in the media and having lived in a community of mainly Aboriginals.

We are responsible for the stolen generation:
Prime Minister apologises like has been asked for 200+ years

We are still to blame.

It is our fault that alcohol makes them uncontrollable, and makes them abuse theor own family:
We give them more money, we give them free medication, more money, more housing, more more more.

We are still to blame.

I am asking when the Aboriginal will be held accountable for their own actions?

kenty
14-12-2009, 01:46 PM
we aren't going to get anywhere with this "us and them" mentality.

agreed,

but when i get called a white cunt, it sorta divides me somehow :/

they are blaming the white people for their problems, that is them dividing themselves anyway, when they fly a seperate flag to the aussie flag that divides them, when there leaders stand up and raise a point like this it divides us, we they make camps so they dont live with us that seperates us, how is this seperation my fault, i have being to school with aboriginal kids, and i welcome them but they themselves seperate them for us

the only time where this can be fixed is when they want it to be fixed, all we can do is watch from the sidelines as they destroy their culture, and wait it out until they "click" to whats going on

if they can figure out how i or you as a white person has affected them or convinced them to get drunk i will gladly take all responsability, but this is an obvious case in which the world watches this, sees them and says wtf, so their rebutle is to move the blame to someone else fuck, i see it all the time at work, this is just on a much larger scale

kenty
14-12-2009, 01:50 PM
but I am sick of people black or white not taking responsibility and making a positive change...instead of pointing fingers.

Here is what I see in the media and having lived in a community of mainly Aboriginals.

We are responsible for the stolen generation:
Prime Minister apologises like has been asked for 200+ years

We are still to blame.

It is our fault that alcohol makes them uncontrollable, and makes them abuse theor own family:
We give them more money, we give them free medication, more money, more housing, more more more.

We are still to blame.

I am asking when the Aboriginal will be held accountable for their own actions?

^ x1,000,000

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 01:50 PM
I'm sure the amount of people burned by exploding methlabs and backyard stills will keep them busy.

Bootlegging will never be stopped.

Just to clarify I dont condone such a country but if you were to block an entire race from buying booze then what next?

What about half castes? Can they only buy the smaller bottles of sprits and half a carton of beer? :P

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 01:54 PM
agreed,

but when i get called a white cunt, it sorta divides me somehow :/

they are blaming the white people for their problems, that is them dividing themselves anyway, when they fly a seperate flag to the aussie flag that divides them, when there leaders stand up and raise a point like this it divides us, we they make camps so they dont live with us that seperates us, how is this seperation my fault, i have being to school with aboriginal kids, and i welcome them but they themselves seperate them for us

the only time where this can be fixed is when they want it to be fixed, all we can do is watch from the sidelines as they destroy their culture, and wait it out until they "click" to whats going on

if they can figure out how i or you as a white person has affected them or convinced them to get drunk i will gladly take all responsability, but this is an obvious case in which the world watches this, sees them and says wtf, so their rebutle is to move the blame to someone else fuck, i see it all the time at work, this is just on a much larger scale

Cultural divides are necessary in society. The John Lennon dream of coffee coloured people is bullshit and tantamount to genocide.

I don't want to trade off my heritage any more than I expect them to trade theirs. Recognising the differences in cultures as differences not faults is where we seem to fall flat as a country. We are told to accept everybody and their beliefs but all uphold the same values, that's a bit of a stretch really.

Who knows? Maybe I should have titled the thread, Fuck, Ernie Dingo is right. Maybe the aboriginal population just needs to learn how to say "no". White policy and law makers unsurprisingly aren't having any joy with the problem. Maybe they need to decide collectively on their national identity and what they want as a people of this country.

The Saint
14-12-2009, 01:54 PM
Why do you think breweries brew midstrength?

shmoo
14-12-2009, 01:57 PM
agreed,

but when i get called a white cunt, it sorta divides me somehow :/

they are blaming the white people for their problems, that is them dividing themselves anyway, when they fly a seperate flag to the aussie flag that divides them, when there leaders stand up and raise a point like this it divides us, we they make camps so they dont live with us that seperates us, how is this seperation my fault, i have being to school with aboriginal kids, and i welcome them but they themselves seperate them for us

the only time where this can be fixed is when they want it to be fixed, all we can do is watch from the sidelines as they destroy their culture, and wait it out until they "click" to whats going on

if they can figure out how i or you as a white person has affected them or convinced them to get drunk i will gladly take all responsability, but this is an obvious case in which the world watches this, sees them and says wtf, so their rebutle is to move the blame to someone else fuck, i see it all the time at work, this is just on a much larger scale
you say you agree. But then you go straight back to "they" "us" "them" ;)

its clear from the way your speaking that when that person calls you a "white cunt" you dont see a drunk person being abusive. You see a drunk Aboriginal being abusive.

thro
14-12-2009, 01:59 PM
2c...

they either integrate with the rest of australian society as an "australian" (i.e., living within the constraints of australian laws), or we fence off an area of the country, put those in who refuse to integrate, and cut them off from all of the benefits that the society they refuse to integrate into provides. you don't want to integrate? we don't want you either... goodbye.

segregation by race, within a community, either for discriminatory purposes, or for the purposes of hand-outs will NEVER fix the problems we have with race.

until people within the community are treated equally (and no, this isn't fixed with handouts), the problems will be perpetuated through future generations. by either those natives who think they're hard done by, or the caucasions, etc who think the aborigines are getting handouts unfairly.


give handouts to PEOPLE in financial hardship or remote location. base them on circumstance, not race.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 02:01 PM
you say you agree. But then you go straight back to "they" "us" "them" ;)

.

clear to me your being a grammar nazi.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:03 PM
you say you agree. But then you go straight back to "they" "us" "them" ;)

its clear from the way your speaking that when that person calls you a "white cunt" you dont see a drunk person being abusive. You see a drunk Aboriginal being abusive.


its hard not to go back,

if i get called a white cunt, by a white person, ill just laugh it off, but if done by an aboriginal person its racism, and it is said intently to attack you verbally yet i cannot do anything back otherwise i am racist, this is the exact opposite of the past

see what i mean?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:04 PM
we fence off an area of the country, put those in who refuse to integrate, and cut them off from all of the benefits that the society they refuse to integrate into provides. you don't want to integrate? we don't want you either... goodbye.Sounds ugly.

Surely the same end could be achieved by committing genocide by forced sterilisation?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:04 PM
see what i mean?No

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 02:05 PM
you say you agree. But then you go straight back to "they" "us" "them" ;)

its clear from the way your speaking that when that person calls you a "white cunt" you dont see a drunk person being abusive. You see a drunk Aboriginal being abusive.

Shmoo they want to be seen as Aboriginals and now you are saying that we are wrong to look on them in that way????

STEEDS
14-12-2009, 02:06 PM
I say we build them a Gallery as the center piece of a new foreshore development.

I think that might finally stop all this blame and resentment and really turn their culture around.

Probably get knocked back by the planning department as an aboriginal sacred site because some aboriginal lived in a shack and scratched something onto a rock a couple of generations ago :lol:

Thats alright throw a couple of mill at em and theyll sign :smile:

shmoo
14-12-2009, 02:06 PM
clear to me your being a grammar nazi.
then its scary how massively you missed my point.

I couldnt care less about the grammar.

shmoo
14-12-2009, 02:07 PM
if i get called a white cunt, by a white person, ill just laugh it off, but if done by an aboriginal person its racism, and it is said intently to attack you verbally yet i cannot do anything back otherwise i am racist, this is the exact opposite of the past

No. Its said specifically to get a racially based reaction from you.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 02:08 PM
then its scary how massively you missed my point.

I couldnt care less about the grammar.


You missed the point altogether. The only thing you have highlighted is the incorrect use of words. How about you come up with a solution instead of putting people down for incorrect word choice?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:08 PM
I couldnt care less about the grammar.Quoted to prove shmoo's point.

shmoo
14-12-2009, 02:10 PM
Shmoo they want to be seen as Aboriginals and now you are saying that we are wrong to look on them in that way????
In the specific context that I was quoting, yes, I do think its wrong to label them as Aboriginals. It comes across as suggesting the problem is their race rather than their alcoholism or their abusive language.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:11 PM
No. Its said specifically to get a racially based reaction from you.

take it you never get out much?

if any race other then white people said that, its ment to inspire hate, you can joke around to mates or even strangers and called them white cunts because its a joke this is ment to make you get angry and abusive regardless if they are african, african-american, aboriginal etc.

they ask for shit, but we cant do anything back otherwise we are seen as racist

shmoo
14-12-2009, 02:13 PM
take it you never get out much?

if any race other then white people said that, its ment to inspire hate, you can joke around to mates or even strangers and called them white cunts because its a joke this is ment to make you get angry and abusive regardless if they are african, african-american, aboriginal etc.

they ask for shit, but we cant do anything back otherwise we are seen as racist
mate, you kick the shit out of a dog every day of its life. Then one day the dog bites you. Then you blame the dog for being violent.

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 02:16 PM
mate, you kick the shit out of a dog every day of its life. Then one day the dog bites you. Then you blame the dog for being violent.

You're right their parents really should stop bashing them.

Good point Shmoo.

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:16 PM
they ask for shit, but we cant do anything back otherwise we are seen as racistWhat would you like to do back?

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 02:17 PM
[


mate, you kick the shit out of a dog every day of its life. Then one day the dog bites you. Then you blame the dog for being violent.

So you are saying that EVERY aboriginal has been abused by a white man every day of their lives that is the reason for all the problems?

darth lefty
14-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Lefty, you trollin'

No. I grew up in Broome and saw firsthand a lot of what is being argued about. My old man used to have a pest control business that for a long time was the only one that would go out to remote communities out of Broome & Derby for work. As well as that, he hired a young indigenous bloke who honestly couldn't have been a nicer guy to have around the house (our place was a home & office) when he was between pest control jobs in the afternoon.

In all sincerity, a great deal of this is close to the heart.

Now, Fastgirl. I had a reply outlined to your previous post which you've now deleted so I'll go with the new one...


The apology has been made for the stolen generation...why the hell is that the only comback given ?. You are saying, leave the molested/abused kid in the situation because for godsakes its not as bad as stolen generation. How about you look again, I didnt say take the kids to a WHITE safe and caring environment.

How many times have you said to anyone - kids especially - that sorry doesn't fix anything? Saying sorry is the beginning of the road, all it does is recognise that we fucked up.

If you want a roadmap as to how I think we should go about fixing this, here:

Engage in meaningful and regular dialogue with Aboriginal people regarding what they see that they need to create sustainable environments for themselves, their communities and their future people to live in.

Then set about providing that.

I'm not talking the NT interventions and knee jerk politicking, this is about restoring a cultural identity to a people. It would take decades. No government in its right mind will ever undertake it. A program like that will far outlive any term in office. A program like that will have the the bigots in the peanut gallery firing up citing preferential treatment and other synonymous ideas and notions.

Not to mention the fact that it would be expensive. And for what reward to a government? Next to none. If you're talking about creating communities for an Aboriginal people, chances are that it's not going to be more integrated into the greater populace of Australia than it already is.


Good to know it exists. Why isnt Ernie pushing for these programs to be more recorgnised? Why is he not showing us all that?

It's not a program or any government funded initiative. It's day to day life.


No baby is born with hate in their hearts. They are taught. They are taught to feel hate and show hate and continue the cycle. By who? Not me...not the government...their parents.

I agree. This is the difference though FG, you're not bothered to ask why the parents have a chip on their shoulders, only bothered enough to crucify them for it. Wouldn't you hate the institutions and governments that took you from your parents? Wouldn't you find it hard to actively encourage anything to do with a culture that tried to force you to assimilate? That's one of the generations of Aboriginals that are parents now.


When will the parents be accountable? When will they stop throwing the blame our way and start saying instead...ok I have free education, I will use it. I have free health care, I will use it. I have free housing, I will care for it. I have been given the tools to make the change in my community..I will do it.

That simply isn't the case though. Education and healthcare in those communities is as much a myth as Santa Claus, simply because they don't have the population base to merit sorting out properly. Sure, you can move to population centers such as Broome/Kununurra/Derby for better access to education but it simply doesn't happen. For what reasons they are, I don't know.


Taught to be white? Taught to read is to be white? Taught to be accountable is to be white? Taught to make a change in their own community is to be white? Well fuck me that sounds racists dont it?

If that's what being white means to you, good onya.

I was referring more to the forced adoption of white cultural values and beliefs like the many catholic missions up north, forced baptisms/confirmations and what not.

If not being white means being unable to read, being unaccountable and unable affect their community, or at least that's what you believe it to be, then I can only say "wow".

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 02:17 PM
take it you never get out much?

if any race other then white people said that, its ment to inspire hate, you can joke around to mates or even strangers and called them white cunts because its a joke this is ment to make you get angry and abusive regardless if they are african, african-american, aboriginal etc.

they ask for shit, but we cant do anything back otherwise we are seen as racist

You don't get to decide what other people find offensive. If they think it is offensive, then it is offensive.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:21 PM
mate, you kick the shit out of a dog every day of its life. Then one day the dog bites you. Then you blame the dog for being violent.

wtf are you on about, for the past 30 years, but even more so today, we are treating aboriginals better, nowadays we help them as much as we can with homes, cars, free money, we are giving them the resources to raise a family as an average respectable family, yet they stuff the system, and us around for shits and giggles.

im renting a place in bullsbrook, where that shat under the lino, now what the hell would have provoked that ?

mate get your shit sorted before you speak.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:23 PM
What would you like to do back?

i respect what you say, but ffs rather then posting questions are you at all able to post something contructive to the conversation and not just troll?

Envy
14-12-2009, 02:23 PM
my2c. this has no references to websites or news paper articles or anything...
To me it's not about racism, It's what children have been doing for years and years.
1- I want I want I want. & I hate you because you wont give it to me.

eg. A child wants new football boots, the parents wont buy them new football boots because they didn't take care of the last pair they got. The child has a bad game and blames the parents because it was all about the boots.

2- I want I want I want. & I know I'm going to get it if I scream loud enough.

eg. A child is in the shopping center and wants a Lollipop, It yells and calls out and makes a scene and to smooth things over the parent dishes out money and buys them a lollipop. The next time the child is in the shop they know exactly what to do, yell and scream and the get another lollipop...

I know it's alot deeper then football boots and lollipops, but to me it seems like everyone behaves the same, I know alot of aboriginal people who I went to school with and acted exactly the same as every other tom dick and harry in class.

It wasn't the fault of the government or whether the higher authority was of the same race as anyone else, it's just how people are.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:24 PM
You don't get to decide what other people find offensive. If they think it is offensive, then it is offensive.

they know its offensive so they do it, when people get abused for NO good reason, thats when I and i bet many get angry

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:24 PM
i respect what you say, but ffs rather then posting questions are you at all able to post something contructive to the conversation and not just troll?Don't embarrass yourself by calling what I posted a troll.

How about answering the question like a grown-up?

Satan1
14-12-2009, 02:26 PM
Lefty summed it up better than I could hope to, If there is a Solution, it is going to come from the leaders of the communities that are greatest effected.

The best the elected government could do is to engage as many members of these communities as frequently as possible and set about structuring the change, where reasonable, that they want.

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 02:27 PM
Don't embarrass yourself by calling what I posted a troll.

How about answering the question like a grown-up?

D-D-D-D-D-D Double troll!!!

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 02:30 PM
D-D-D-D-D-D Double troll!!!

No, it's a fair point.

An shortsighted argument full of bluster achieves nothing, The Saint was trying to encourage kenty to think more about the situation, beyond the initial emotional response.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:30 PM
What would you like to do back?

you want me to answer this question honestly,

PERSONALLY, i would do nothing and i do nothing, im a passive person, and i avoid arguments, i dont look for fights, and i have never thrown a fist in anger.

happy mr saint?

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 02:30 PM
In the specific context that I was quoting, yes, I do think its wrong to label them as Aboriginals. It comes across as suggesting the problem is their race rather than their alcoholism or their abusive language.

I guess we will just have to disagree there then. To me if they want to be seen as aboriginals before australian then that is the way I will continue to look at them. If they wish to be seen as equal parts of each then i will also look at them that way and judge them as I would any other Australian.

I will do this with any other race also.

When we see asians or africans or arabians here speaking their own language and not learning ours we are insulted and although slightly different I believe that both these issues are closely related and wont treat any race differently.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 02:32 PM
No. I grew up in Broome and saw firsthand a lot of what is being argued about. My old man used to have a pest control business that for a long time was the only one that would go out to remote communities out of Broome & Derby for work. As well as that, he hired a young indigenous bloke who honestly couldn't have been a nicer guy to have around the house (our place was a home & office) when he was between pest control jobs in the afternoon.

In all sincerity, a great deal of this is close to the heart.

Now, Fastgirl. I had a reply outlined to your previous post which you've now deleted so I'll go with the new one...



How many times have you said to anyone - kids especially - that sorry doesn't fix anything? Saying sorry is the beginning of the road, all it does is recognise that we fucked up.

No WE did not fuckup...a bunch of stupid unedicated settlers fucked up, then another stupid uneducated government fuckedup...not me

If you want a roadmap as to how I think we should go about fixing this, here:

Engage in meaningful and regular dialogue with Aboriginal people regarding what they see that they need to create sustainable environments for themselves, their communities and their future people to live in.

Agreed

Then set about providing that.

I'm not talking the NT interventions and knee jerk politicking, this is about restoring a cultural identity to a people. It would take decades. No government in its right mind will ever undertake it. A program like that will far outlive any term in office. A program like that will have the the bigots in the peanut gallery firing up citing preferential treatment and other synonymous ideas and notions.

Not to mention the fact that it would be expensive. And for what reward to a government? Next to none. If you're talking about creating communities for an Aboriginal people, chances are that it's not going to be more integrated into the greater populace of Australia than it already is.



It's not a program or any government funded initiative. It's day to day life.

Should it be a program or a givernement funded initiative?

I agree. This is the difference though FG, you're not bothered to ask why the parents have a chip on their shoulders, only bothered enough to crucify them for it. Wouldn't you hate the institutions and governments that took you from your parents? Wouldn't you find it hard to actively encourage anything to do with a culture that tried to force you to assimilate? That's one of the generations of Aboriginals that are parents now.

No one cares why anyone has a chip on their shoulder. It still doesnt give you a right to continue hate.

That simply isn't the case though. Education and healthcare in those communities is as much a myth as Santa Claus, simply because they don't have the population base to merit sorting out properly. Sure, you can move to population centers such as Broome/Kununurra/Derby for better access to education but it simply doesn't happen. For what reasons they are, I don't know.

I know for a fact that the remote outback communities have on the road nurses and doctors that come out to them. Yet they still dont immunise their kids...but again thats our fault? Its our fault that the Aboriginals have the highest infant mortality rate?


I was referring more to the forced adoption of white cultural values and beliefs like the many catholic missions up north, forced baptisms/confirmations and what not.

They force baptism on Aboriginals still? So do whites, we are forced to see on our TV a religious message, we are told if we dont turn to god we will go to hell, we have them turn up on our doorsteps preaching to us. Thats again not a white man problem...thats a religious problem.

If not being white means being unable to read, being unaccountable and unable affect their community, or at least that's what you believe it to be, then I can only say "wow".

I am saying in the current climate we are to blame for everything. Its our fault they drink, its our fault they abuse, its our fault they dont get healthcare, its our fault for every bloody bad thing in their lives.

answer me one thing, when will they be accountable for their own actions? or is being Aboriginal make you excempt from that?

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:32 PM
Don't embarrass yourself by calling what I posted a troll.

How about answering the question like a grown-up?

but you yourself, you must know that ALOT of your posts are made as questions, i rarely see you contribute to a discussion by expressing your feelings, and thought.

so what is your opinion on this then?, regardless what anyone says or has said

Joe Shabadoo
14-12-2009, 02:32 PM
I read it again... you are proposing an alternate set of laws for aboriginal vs non aboriginal...

I'm not offended at your masked racism, hell I even have some of the same feelings. I'm offended that you seek to aspouse that we are not all Australian, and live by the same fucking laws, standards or moral/social expectation, and right to achieve the same goals and make the same mistakes as the next person, regardless of colour.

Fuckin aboriginal culture can exist, fine. 200+ years ago, poms came to this country, and as the indigenous race correctly state, invaded it. Cry me a fucking river hey, that behaviour has been going on for many thousands of years in asia, europe, middle east, americas, africa. Civilisations are assimilated, little pieces of their culture become part of the greater culture, there is struggle, turmoil, hurt feelings. But eventually those invaded let go, and those who invade start integrating parts of the integrated culture. In this case, becoming Australian, rather than aboriginal/non-aboriginal. Whether this takes another 100 or 1000 years, who knows.. who cares

At the same time as I refuse to lower my expectations of decency because aboriginal people have a cross to bear, I think a proactive attitude to achieve better integration and address social issues is a mature approach


well brendon you better read again.

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:33 PM
you want me to answer this question honestly,

PERSONALLY, i would do nothing and i do nothing, im a passive person, and i avoid arguments, i dont look for fights, and i have never thrown a fist in anger.

happy mr saint?Not really.

You say you "can't do anything back" because it would be seen as racist, but then you concede that you wouldn't do anything back anyway because it's not in your nature.

So why the wailing and gnashing of teeth? :huh:

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:34 PM
but you yourself, you must know that ALOT of your posts are made as questions, i rarely see you contribute to a discussion by expressing your feelings, and thought.That's because nobody gives a fuck about my opinion, and I woudn't be so presumptuous as to think they would.

Words on a page, mate. Words on a page.

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 02:36 PM
No, it's a fair point.

An shortsighted argument full of bluster achieves nothing, The Saint was trying to encourage kenty to think more about the situation, beyond the initial emotional response.

Im sure what Kenty would like to do would be different to for every case and also totally irrelvant to the overall situation of Aboriginals in society.

I really dont see how Kentys imiginary response to being confronted and called a white cunt is going to achieve a brighter future.

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 02:38 PM
no, we have definitely achieved something. You at least can realise how futile the emotional response is, and we can hope kenty thinks the same. The next step is to think of a better solution...

darth lefty
14-12-2009, 02:39 PM
I am saying in the current climate we are to blame for everything. Its our fault they drink, its our fault they abuse, its our fault they dont get healthcare, its our fault for every bloody bad thing in their lives.

answer me one thing, when will they be accountable for their own actions? or is being Aboriginal make you excempt from that?

It's our fault that their cultural identity is in tatters - something that you don't seem to wish to acknowledge at all - and in the absence of that, I don't think it's too long a bow to draw that we have at the very least a mutual obligation to provide or facilitate the means for them to rebuild sustainable communities and become accountable for their actions.

I'm not saying that you personally took part in depriving a race of a hundred years of living in its own cultural predilections. But you - as much as anyone else that is Australian - are part of the society that did.

Edit:

As to the other points, if you don't care about why someone has a chip on their shoulder then you can hardly find a way to remedy/work around it. Bidyadanga is just an example of an Aboriginal community that hasn't been as tainted as others by outside influences, forced baptisms don't really occur so much anymore (as far as I know) but there is still a degree of pressure in residual Catholic missions for it to occur, yes, nurses and doctors do the outback rural thing, but as far as true/proper healthcare is concerned, it's so far out of step with the rest of Australia that it scarcely rates comparing.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:40 PM
Not really.

You say you "can't do anything back" because it would be seen as racist, but then you concede that you wouldn't do anything back anyway because it's not in your nature.

So why the wailing and gnashing of teeth? :huh:

sorry to say it in a confusing way, but there are many types of people i was meerly discussing the people that would respond to these words,

words on a page it is but with discussions you can change your opinion or others i dont think that it would be a waste or no-one one would care hell you might make a point in which you change others opinions...........give it a go :)

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 02:41 PM
no, we have definitely achieved something. You at least can realise how futile the emotional response is, and we can hope kenty thinks the same. The next step is to think of a better solution...

You are assuming that people didnt realise that already.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 02:43 PM
It's our fault that their cultural identity is in tatters - something that you don't seem to wish to acknowledge at all - and in the absence of that, I don't think it's too long a bow to draw that we have at the very least a mutual obligation to provide or facilitate the means for them to rebuild sustainable communities and become accountable for their actions.

I'm not saying that you personally took part in depriving a race of a hundred years of living in its own cultural predilections. But you - as much as anyone else that is Australian - are part of the society that did.

agreed to a point. OK im willing to say Lets put in place the tools they need to make a positive change. If they then do not choose to do anything with the tools provided to them, then what? Is it still our fault...or do we continue to shoulder the blame, put in more money for more programs to prop them up.

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:44 PM
no, we have definitely achieved something. You at least can realise how futile the emotional response is, and we can hope kenty thinks the same. The next step is to think of a better solution...

i do realise that emotional responses are worthless, but then again i dont give them because of the way i am.

really it sounds like they want a band aid solution in which they want a quick fix to all their problems, yet they are not going to put the effort into it, i honestly hope they elders/ernie/whoever figure it out and try to stop it, because yes its a different culture, but really all they are doing atm is tearing the country apart

AUSTRALIAN CIVIL WAR 2010 :p

The Saint
14-12-2009, 02:51 PM
This is bizarre.

7 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
8 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
9 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
10 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
11 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
12 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
13 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Fucking lazy useless abo cunts how about fucking doing something to help yaselves instead of blaming whitey and living off my tax money you alcoholic child-molesting solvent-abusing land-stealing hypocritical bastards rageragerageragerageragerageragerageragerage."

Ernie trolled you.

Ernie trolled you good.

Nath
14-12-2009, 02:53 PM
:lol:

kenty
14-12-2009, 02:56 PM
This is bizarre.

7 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
8 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
9 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
10 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
11 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
12 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Meh."
13 December 2009: "Aboriginals?" "Fucking lazy useless abo cunts how about fucking doing something to help yaselves instead of blaming whitey and living off my tax money you alcoholic child-molesting solvent-abusing land-stealing hypocritical bastards rageragerageragerageragerageragerageragerage."

Ernie trolled you.

Ernie trolled you good.

...touche,

although it happens every now and again, as you probaly have observed its when an aboriginal says something redicilous or try the blame game to fix or create a problem.

fucking trolling ernie

shmoo
14-12-2009, 03:20 PM
agreed to a point. OK im willing to say Lets put in place the tools they need to make a positive change. If they then do not choose to do anything with the tools provided to them, then what? Is it still our fault...or do we continue to shoulder the blame, put in more money for more programs to prop them up.
Of course we continue. Thats what human beings do to help out other, troubled human beings. We dont throw our hands up and say "well, we tried" and then just walk away. The fact that we have to keep putting "in more money for more programs to prop them up" tells us that what we're doing has been wrong and hasnt worked.

I think the single biggest problem is that the decisions are made by politicians. Politicians exist for one reason: to get themselves reelected. They arent going to win many important votes by going in to bat for Aboriginal rights. I reckon if people could make the hard decisions that need to be made, without fear of elector backlash, then things might actually have a chance.

I'm not suggesting that I know the answer. But its clear that something needs to change. The fact that there are people living in Australia, who are Australian citizens, yet they are considered amongst the most disadvantaged people in the whole world, is a fucking disgrace. We are one of the richest nations on earth, yet we have groups like World Vision out in the field, in Australia, helping people. Thats is awful and reflects extremely poorly on us as a whole.

Kryzaach
14-12-2009, 03:21 PM
Tarring all aboriginal people with the same brush doesn't accomplish anything whatsoever.

And some of what FG proposes is just plain scary if that's what some of you really believe is necessary.
EDIT: fine, no more hitler reference.

There is no easy fix for the situation in some communities and definitely no sweeping ones that can be applied to all of the troubled areas. The best thing that can be done is for groups to be set up that can work directly with the communities and aid in resource management and education(and whatever other capacity that is required).

All the statements of "They brought it on themselves" show a lack of thought on the situation. Sure, there is a limit to the amount of aid people can(and should) be given, but that is no reason to not work around the obstacles and at least give them, and make them aware of; the opportunities others are given.


That's it, I'm getting all your addresses and making native title claims.

Bitches don't know 'bout my Wagyl.

Edit: Clearly I didn't read about half the thread, but whatever..

shmoo
14-12-2009, 03:22 PM
dude...really? Hitler reference?? Come on.

Sumfun4me
14-12-2009, 03:24 PM
It would seem that the whole "not taking responsibility for their own actions" argument can be applied across all sectors of our community these days, not just the indigenous. The unfortunate reality is that they are what they are, and have been this way for a very long time. Whether it was the white man who sent them down this path or not is probably irrelevant - as mentioned before, nothing will be gained by constantly throwing money at the problem and pointing fingers. The do - gooders need to be told to "butt out of it" and the government needs to get down to some serious dialogue with the real indigenous community (not the ones sitting around the park bench - for them I think it's already too late) to find out what they really want, but to actually listen & not think we know better (my 2 cents).

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Of course we continue. Thats what human beings do to help out other, troubled human beings. We dont throw our hands up and say "well, we tried" and then just walk away. The fact that we have to keep putting "in more money for more programs to prop them up" tells us that what we're doing has been wrong and hasnt worked.



Sorry for this point i dont agree with either. If my mate is having issues with his ex or his mrs or something like that and she is treating him like shit but he keeps going back there and putting himself in that situation there is only so much you can do for him before he has to do something for himself. You can oly help people for so long before you need to walk away and let them help themselves.

Might be a particularly harsh attitude but thats what it is.

And sorry shmoo i dont want it to look like i am only picking holes in your arguments or having a go at you but we differ on some opinions and you also put your ideas across clearly.

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 03:29 PM
The fact that there are people living in Australia, who are Australian citizens, yet they are considered amongst the most disadvantaged people in the whole world, is a fucking disgrace. We are one of the richest nations on earth, yet we have groups like World Vision out in the field, in Australia, helping people. Thats is awful and reflects extremely poorly on us and a whole.

What portion of the disadvantaged do you think may have squandered the assistance provided to them?

Is it worthwhile continuing to provide assistance to such individuals?

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 03:32 PM
It would seem that the whole "not taking responsibility for their own actions" argument can be applied across all sectors of our community these days, not just the indigenous. The unfortunate reality is that they are what they are, and have been this way for a very long time. Whether it was the white man who sent them down this path or not is probably irrelevant - as mentioned before, nothing will be gained by constantly throwing money at the problem and pointing fingers. The do - gooders need to be told to "butt out of it" and the government needs to get down to some serious dialogue with the real indigenous community (not the ones sitting around the park bench - for them I think it's already too late) to find out what they really want, but to actually listen & not think we know better (my 2 cents).

here is another issue, the ones sitting around a park bench are the problem, not the elders or respected people. To be an elder in the tribe first you need to be respected and you dont get there by drinking your life away on a park bench.

If they were to go back to their tribe would they be accepted and respected? Does anyone here actually know enough about aboriginal culture to talk about that as I certainly dont.......

If they aren't respected in their own culture why would they listen to elders that are telling them not to behave this way?

*this is in no way making excuses for their behaviour just trying to look at it from a differnt POV*

drifter
14-12-2009, 03:33 PM
throwing money at ignorance is a waste of time.

shmoo
14-12-2009, 03:36 PM
Sorry for this point i dont agree with either. If my mate is having issues with his ex or his mrs or something like that and she is treating him like shit but he keeps going back there and putting himself in that situation there is only so much you can do for him before he has to do something for himself. You can oly help people for so long before you need to walk away and let them help themselves.

Might be a particularly harsh attitude but thats what it is.

I dont see how you can draw a parallel with the "cheating ex" example.

We're talking here about entire generations who are born into a disadvantaged culture. From the day they are born, they are treated as second class citizens. Its extremely hard for people to claw their way out of the class they are born into. I dont believe anyone truly wants to hurt people or be in pain, but it is so ingrained in some of the Aboriginal communities cultures, that I think some of them are not able to help themselves.



And sorry shmoo i dont want it to look like i am only picking holes in your arguments or having a go at you but we differ on some opinions and you also put your ideas across clearly.
ah, dont be silly. No worries at all. Different opinions is what makes life interesting.

Waikikablukar
14-12-2009, 03:38 PM
Not really drawing a comparrison between the 2 issues more trying to explain my view on the situation

Joe Shabadoo
14-12-2009, 03:47 PM
so tryihn whelies and u crash, it cost money.
u dont try again because wheeleis arent worth doing anymore or u improvig your method

browncow
14-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I don't have a problem with aboriginals or caucasians.
I have a problem with douchebags.

A douchebag can be black or white.
A douchebag will call me a cunt when I don't have $2 or a smoke.
A douchebag will walk 4 abreast down the street and sink his shoulder into people that don't get out of their way fast enough.

The problem is not with the government, it is with the douchebag.
Personally I don't think a douchebag deserves money from welfare to not do anything with his life.

Fuck douchebags.

Satan1
14-12-2009, 04:07 PM
I don't have a problem with aboriginals or caucasians.
I have a problem with douchebags.

A douchebag can be black or white.
A douchebag will call me a cunt when I don't have $2 or a smoke.
A douchebag will walk 4 abreast down the street and sink his shoulder into people that don't get out of their way fast enough.

The problem is not with the government, it is with the douchebag.
Personally I don't think a douchebag deserves money from welfare to not do anything with his life.

Fuck douchebags.
:dry:

rod
14-12-2009, 04:08 PM
They just miss cannibalism, 'tis all.

browncow
14-12-2009, 04:14 PM
:dry:

:what:

Worst frankenquote ever.

You're slipping Shane....

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 04:36 PM
Would people support a panel of Aboriginal representatives or elders being given direct control over the funds currently dispersed by the Government for indigenous health, housing and assistance? Basically the indigenous affairs portfolio being run by indigenous people.

Surely, they would know how to spend it in a non offensive and beneficial way right?

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 04:38 PM
you mean like ATSIC? It wasn't a complete failure, it manage to embiggen a small percentage of the aboriginal population, mainly family and friends of council members.

CitizenD
14-12-2009, 04:42 PM
you mean like ATSIC? It wasn't a complete failure, it manage to embiggen a small percentage of the aboriginal population, mainly family and friends of council members.

Not so much like ATSIC. Less emphasis on hiding 14 year olds whom rape grandmothers than ATSIC I think would be the go. Instead, an Elder sitting on Rudd's bench calling the shots in relation to indigenous domestic policy.

browncow
14-12-2009, 04:53 PM
I'd support that with a 50/50 split of power between elders and gov't reps. At a community level that is.

The age old adage that immediately springs to mind for me is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Or not drink as the case might be. All problem drinkers (not just aboriginals) need to recognnise they have a problem before it can be treated.

Sumfun4me
14-12-2009, 05:01 PM
There is an Aboriginal Land Council that is set up to run the Northern Australian region (I'm pretty sure that covers Arnhem Land), which I think is pretty much what you are talking about Cit D. The problem with ATSIC was that (at least in my opinion) the easily available funds that were thrown that way led to corruption by a lot of individuals who may have started out with the right intentions, but lost the plot a little. generally speaking, the ALC does a pretty good job (but again, this is from my personal experience with the communities some 20 years ago, so it may have changed).

karen
14-12-2009, 05:11 PM
Spend some time with some of the kids.
I do every day.
It is 'us' and 'them' from an early age. They know it.
They learn how to 'behave' at school and how to 'behave' at home.

There's a woman we work with who's doing time up north (and world wide) empowering children using a protective behaviours program.

If children don't grow up feeling beaten & having no control, and feel they have some control over their lives (and bodies), it's some way to making functioning people.

I tend to disagree with all the Elders this and government that.
If you're raising the same dysfunctional kids into adults nothing will change.

thro
14-12-2009, 05:23 PM
It's our fault that their cultural identity is in tatters - something that you don't seem to wish to acknowledge at all -

now... i'm all for equality and all... but fact is - they/australia were conquered. that - i will freely acknowledge. i won't take responsibility for it though - but, fact - it has happened.


like it or not, be it via military conquest, economic domination or whatever - australia has been taken over by a european dominated culture. and it's continuing to happen evolve with the americanization of our current culture via the media / "free trade" agreement.

now, they/everyone else can either accept that, integrate and get on with their lives as best they can in the current culture - or they can bitch for hand-outs "just because" and be shunned by the rest of the community forever more. or they can leave, and find a culture more suitable for their lifestyle (we could maybe facilitate this by giving them a fenced off area where they can be separate from our society and not either receiving funding or governance from us (which is far more reasonable than the deal any other minority race has ever received to my knowledge when taken over by another culture).


like lefty, i have dealt with natives in the workforce, and the ones who I've met in that environment are hard working, respectable people.

however much like our race, they have the equivalent of our "white trash" as well...

The Saint
14-12-2009, 05:25 PM
What's "our" race?

drifter
14-12-2009, 05:27 PM
What's "our" race?

anglo-saxon?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 05:29 PM
:mellow:

I'm Polynesian.

Fastgirl
14-12-2009, 05:31 PM
im english-irish-1/8th aboriginal( bet you wouldnt have guessed that eh?0-australian.

Sumfun4me
14-12-2009, 05:32 PM
I'm a bitsa (0ne grandmother scottish, the other aboriginal, grandfathers both english)

thro
14-12-2009, 05:33 PM
What's "our" race?

maybe race is the wrong word to describe those who have integrated.

our "culture".

(i mean, its predominantly caucasian, but there are asians, etc here as well. race is not important imho - its whether or not you contribute)

The Saint
14-12-2009, 05:34 PM
YouTube - True Romance - Sicilians

drifter
14-12-2009, 05:35 PM
maybe race is the wrong word to describe those who have integrated.

our "culture".

(i mean, its predominantly caucasian, but there are asians, etc here as well. race is not important imho - its whether or not you contribute)

maybe you meant indigenous and non-indigenous.

karen
14-12-2009, 05:38 PM
Thro, the responsibility (or problem) rests on the conquerers to sort it out now, doesn't it?
And I believe there has been a decision, albeit with no organisation or discussion, to -

- or they can bitch for hand-outs "just because" and be shunned by the rest of the community forever more.

Shall we leave it there?

thro
14-12-2009, 05:38 PM
re: drifter
^^ no, i mean those who work, pay tax, and contribute vs those who bludge off the dole, live off crime, etc.

whether they're indigenous or not.

T-roy
14-12-2009, 05:43 PM
Ernie dingo is right, its white man fault there drinking so much..

With out money they cant buy alcohol.

Should take away the aboriginal welfare...

browncow
14-12-2009, 05:56 PM
re: drifter
^^ no, i mean those who work, pay tax, and contribute vs those who bludge off the dole, live off crime, etc.

whether they're indigenous or not.

WThroS.

I don't give a shit what you look like. If you are nothing but a drain on society and antisocial trash I think you're scum. Contribute of GTFO.

Maybe I just believe too much in a free market economy/hard right political atmosphere.

The Saint
14-12-2009, 05:58 PM
I don't give a shit what you look like.Stands to reason, racism has never been about appearances.

jules_1972
14-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Just think if everyone worked, no one committed crime, no free loaders etc etc..

Wouldn't there be more unemployed people from prisons, welfare offices,
counselors, no drug clinics, less people hanging out at shopping malls, list
goes on and on...

The Saint
14-12-2009, 06:11 PM
6PR talkback radio would die in the arse.

The Saint
14-12-2009, 06:12 PM
Just think if everyone worked, wouldn't there be more unemployed peopleThat hurts my brain. :(

jules_1972
14-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Ha Ha!!

Bad, useless people are needed to you know!!

Sentry
14-12-2009, 06:22 PM
He's a what now? :confused:
Apparently he used to play football.


I don't have a problem with aboriginals or caucasians.
I have a problem with douchebags...

...Fuck douchebags.


+1 to a slight variation. I have a problem with people over the age of 18 who don't actively contribute to society in one way or another

The Saint
14-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Hey, so did I.

Cool! I'm now officially an "ex-footballer". :cool:

Satan1
14-12-2009, 06:29 PM
Apparently he used to play football.



Really?

I know he played sbl at one stage, didn't realized he was any good at anything else.

Sentry
14-12-2009, 06:30 PM
I may be wrong; can't say I'm up to date with my Ernie Dingo knowledge


Hey, so did I.

Cool! I'm now officially an "ex-footballer". :cool:

You may be an ex-footballer, but you'll always be a tosser :cool:

The Saint
14-12-2009, 06:32 PM
I may be wrongYa think?

you'll always be a tosser :cool:First correct thing you've said in this thread ;)

chew
14-12-2009, 06:35 PM
I think he was actually in the Wildcats.

Sentry
14-12-2009, 06:42 PM
omg someone iz wrong on the internetzz!

The Saint
14-12-2009, 06:43 PM
On PSB?

Pfffft 'sif

Dale
14-12-2009, 07:18 PM
isnt Ernie married to a white woman? WTF Ernie?!?!

Sumfun4me
14-12-2009, 07:21 PM
Gotta luv them white womanz....

malenko
14-12-2009, 07:28 PM
Stands to reason, racism has never been about appearances.

You sure about that?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 07:30 PM
Pretty much.

malenko
14-12-2009, 07:36 PM
well if its not about appearances what is it about then?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 07:38 PM
Language and culture, mostly.

Values.

richie_b
14-12-2009, 08:39 PM
oh my.

Envy
14-12-2009, 09:06 PM
:|

The Saint
14-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Send them and Saint to live in South Africa ... love this thread.Um ... what?

Fat Pat
14-12-2009, 09:42 PM
isnt Ernie married to a white woman? WTF Ernie?!?!
Yeah, cause you know ..."once you're tried black, you never go back"

:D

tldr, but I can guess how this thread has already gone.....

...and apparently i'm an "ex-footballer" tooB)

Professor Redfern
14-12-2009, 10:09 PM
Didnt Ernie used to play for the Wildcats?

The Saint
14-12-2009, 10:11 PM
Yeah, in their first season I think.

Barfridge
14-12-2009, 11:19 PM
Serious thread has run out of serious