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Thread: Track day sympathies - Regular inspections

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    Member Gippo's Avatar
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    Track day sympathies - Regular inspections

    Done a track day as you know and was not shy in any respect.

    Hamfisted brakes here and there, on rev limiter etc etc.

    It surprised me on the day that the coaches only talked about riding technique and next to nothing about keeping an eye on your bike. In all fairness it was a level 1 and most people take it easy so maybe not a general issue for anyone. That said, I decided to call it quits after round 5 as I felt I wouldn't push a car that hard, for that many rounds as I did without properly and completely inspecting it.

    Been working through the bike and discovered a few things that drew my attention.

    1) Warp speed radiator protector scuffed from front tyre bottoming out.
    2) Rear tyre ballooning and scrubbing rear swing arm (tyres 180/60/17s too big)
    3) Discoloured disc rotors.


    Sorted all but number 3, the disc rotors...

    Here is a pic:



    Photo does not show that the dark grey shades are actually purple-ish shaded patches. Pads still have 50% + on them. Will change them out before next track day including the fluids but what about Rotors? Normal or not?

    No visible cracks that I can see.

    So please discuss Brake inspections on race days and then feel free to go further and outline your general preventative maintenance routines.

    Thanks appreciate it.
    Last edited by Gippo; 29-08-2016 at 10:11 AM.
    Its all good on Ducati's

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    Moderator Arwon's Avatar
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    Rotors do dis-colour, or in racer terms they are NOW the correct colour.

    the tyre rubs usually because the chain is too short. Have you lowered your bike as this will usually cause the front to rub.
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    All good thanks Arwon. Tyres and front all easily remedied, its just the brakes that noticeably changed and there is not much on the net in terms of reading your rotors.
    Its all good on Ducati's

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    Member VULGR's Avatar
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    Brake inspection on race day- firm lever pressure, lockwired (make sure caliper bolts are tight), some meat left on the pads (I wouldn't replace with 50% left).
    Racing maintenance & checks aren't that different from maintenance on a street bike, it's just a lot more frequent
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    look to metalurgy ...for temp colour references..Brown/blue/purple etc...are a vivid indication of the temperatures reached by parts of the disc materials.

    Not excluding any foreign material/contamination....some of the brake pad material will also be referenced as residue on the rotor.

    I hope this helps... Rotors are made to a std. as are the pads...:-)
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    Gippo..if you ride at 99% you should be looking over your own bike.
    The coaches didn't tell you to ride as hard as you could, quite the opposite in fact, so that is entirely on you.

    If you did a 2hr country ride at WOT, who would you blame for not inspecting your bike when you get home?
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    Member Gippo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Maz= View Post
    Gippo..if you ride at 99% you should be looking over your own bike.
    The coaches didn't tell you to ride as hard as you could, quite the opposite in fact, so that is entirely on you.

    If you did a 2hr country ride at WOT, who would you blame for not inspecting your bike when you get home?
    No disrespect intended.

    Totally understood the consequences of my choices and accepted my responsibilities.
    Its all good on Ducati's
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    Member robwas's Avatar
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    Harder braking will make the rotors more evenly coloured if that's what the issue is but they look fine to me.
    As a coach I always mention that you need to keep an eye on your bike throughout the day but in reality you will travel no more than 200km total for a day at the track so if everything is sweet in the morning things shouldn't wear out.
    Different pads will have a different affect on your rotors too. If you change the pads follow OEM break in procedures and if it is mentioned clean the rotors correctly before using the new pads.
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    Pro tip, its not the equipment 99% of the time.
    Your bike was scrutineered, and the website outlines requirements.

    If the brakes fading you're being a Hamfisted muppet,
    BLEED them,
    make sure the pistons aren't sticky, (the pads are wearing evenly, no drag)
    Make sure the disc are floating and not seized. (If it shimmies at high speed braking its a sign)
    Lube the lever pivot point (Anti seize the bolt, and a teeny spot of lube on the contact point of the master cylinder, you can use WD40 )

    Bottoming the suspension on a bike like yours, (in group 1 & 2) is also muppetry.
    *4th gear no brakes returns faster mid corner speed.

    Get the owners manual out, and a mate to help and set the sag.
    EVERY bike rider needs to do this.
    All the Ohlins stickers in the world are useless if its not in the ballpark.
    Return all dampening adjustments to std settings, and develop from there as you progress.
    Ducati manuals are really good, my Mates 1098S was.
    *Ive seen a showroom Fireblade with mirrors folded do 59 secs.

    If you 'slow down to go fast' you'll develop feel,
    and that's when you can start pushing beyond your wildest dreams.
    Ive not had one suspension complaint, uncontrollable slide, running too hot, or crash (touch wood) riding stock Lams bikes for 5 yrs.
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    Member Stephan's Avatar
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    One thing I always said when I coached, ask me anything, don't be afraid to ask a question and if you're not comfortable in front of the group, pull me to the side and ask one on one. As Rob said, I know very few coaches who don't tell the group to keep an eye on their bikes.
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    As steel is heated it will change colour,
    As you've determined by now brakes work by applying friction, friction generates heat
    Brake pads are available with different friction materials that will work in different ways, some need to be hot before they are at their best and others work when cooler

    Track riding usually involves hard braking from speed, this will generate a lot of heat
    The heat is mostly dissipated through the discs also through the pads and calipers this is why discs are drilled, slotted and vented, to increase the surface area and air flow


    Here's a nifty chart to help you guess how hot your discs were getting, think about how much energy it takes to heat steel this much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo View Post
    So please discuss Brake inspections on race days and then feel free to go further and outline your general preventative maintenance routines.

    Thanks appreciate it.
    Isn't level 1 mostly body positioning and handling theory (AKA 4th gear no brakes)? Shouldn't be using the brakes fully until you've mastered those.

    Oh, and in level one (or arguably level 2) you're not doing a "track day" as that implies you know what you're doing; you're doing basic rider training. Track days are what the group 3 & 4's do on their race/training bikes.
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    Try Para045, he definitely sounds all gooey in the fork for ya
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    If bike is turning really easily try putting in a turn or two of front preload and/or a little bit of front compression to help hold the front up and stop the bottoming. If it turns to easily the front will have a tendency to being a little nervous in the corners and when you do start pushing on a bit will probably affect your confidence and may lead to the front folding and you low siding. If it is touching the radiator good chance this is the case.
    The Bend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    If bike is turning really easily try putting in a turn or two of front preload and/or a little bit of front compression to help hold the front up and stop the bottoming. If it turns to easily the front will have a tendency to being a little nervous in the corners and when you do start pushing on a bit will probably affect your confidence and may lead to the front folding and you low siding. If it is touching the radiator good chance this is the case.
    Thanks buddy great tips.

    Yep. Turning nicely, linear feel and very predictable/consistent. Courtesy of MartyMoose.

    I did have a couple hamfist brake panic attacks so I may not need to add preload/ compression will assess next time out.
    Its all good on Ducati's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo View Post
    I did have a couple hamfist brake panic attacks so I may not need to add preload/ compression will assess next time out.
    Personally I'd like enough margin that the front can't touch because the suspension bottoms first but to each their own.
    The Bend

    Hurry Up!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    Personally I'd like enough margin that the front can't touch because the suspension bottoms first but to each their own.
    Thought about this alot. The scrub on my radiator protector is pretty light and appears it just needed that extra 1.5mm.

    Now you got me all paranoid and will give it a bit.
    Its all good on Ducati's

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    What ? yeh sorry... I was just playing around with the idea of zero susp. Travel under brakes at max lean..( in my head)

    (I assumed you were saying that) ..the Front bottoms out..? so no more travel...?

    Then I re-read the post.... hang on I get it..... Predictable front collapse....yeh... so then the tyre is the main focus....right?

    Use the physics of load fwd to steer into ..and around...the forks....Is that wha you mean?

    "Can't touch..." ( so the tyre can't touch the fairing...)

    oops ( my fault) I see what you mean now.... but what if.....? ( there is something to this)

    It's only momentary..( and the suspension is trying to react to your input.) .'cause you get back on the gas ( sphinkter pukker moment..)

    or take advantage of the front end slide to correct steering (compressed forks use the predictable slide/fwd momentum)... more heat on contact patch etc....= grip...... sneaky..

    Pass move at 1/2 lean... eh? Diagram reqd..?....do ya get it.?.. it's not that difficult to understand... is it...?

    worth at least 0.5 sec./lap. till you overheat the tyre and rubber gasses and loses grip= low side.
    Last edited by GsxInShed; 30-08-2016 at 04:13 PM.
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    Does anyone have a 'Dummy's guide' to GSXInSheds posts? I can't decode that one...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeBloke View Post
    Does anyone have a 'Dummy's guide' to GSXInSheds posts? I can't decode that one...
    Hey GsxInShed Whats the chances of you attempting to go a whole week actually writing in english ( even pigeon english ) rather than just a collection of words you happened to find in the Oxford Dictionary?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo View Post
    Thought about this alot. The scrub on my radiator protector is pretty light and appears it just needed that extra 1.5mm.

    Now you got me all paranoid and will give it a bit.
    1 turn of extra preload in the front should lift it around 1mm so maybe try that and a couple of clicks of compression ( half a turn if you don't have clickers ) I doubt you'll notice a change to the handling at group 2 level but should get just enough clearance. If anything bike MAY need a little more effort to turn in and MAY tend to run a little wider mid corner but it should be bugger all.
    The Bend

    Hurry Up!!!
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