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Thread: Just how bigger difference do epic tyres make on the street?

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    Just how bigger difference do epic tyres make on the street?

    I'm not a big fan of the corsa 3s on my gsxr but they only have 30% tread left and are three years old and showing signs of age. So I'm blaming this over the model.

    I have s21s on the blade and love them but are very expensive. Theirs lots of the older models but 2016 produced tyres on clearance at the moment.

    Pirelli plain jane diablos for new front and rear i can get at a tiny $230 at the moment.

    Pilot power originals for $320

    Bt023 pros for $350

    I know the diablos were great when they came out ten years ago but technology has definitely advanced. Am I likely to really feel the difference on the street or nope any new tyres beat old hard rubber buy the cheapies?

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    Good tyres are worth their weight in gold. Considering they are the only bits (that should be) touching the ground, spend what you can afford to get good tyres. Especially with winter coming up.

    You should be able to feel the difference between old tyres at 30% and new tyres immediately...

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    Member Water pig's Avatar
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    I'm struggling to think of something you could spend money on that would have a bigger impact on the bikes performance and control
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrop.senator View Post
    I know the diablos were great when they came out ten years ago but technology has definitely advanced. Am I likely to really feel the difference on the street or nope any new tyres beat old hard rubber buy the cheapies?

    From the way you've written it it sounds like you are more querying whether newer models of tyres make that much of a difference?
    I'd say newer technology tyres certainly have improved things but I don't think it's probably as big an improvement difference as say handling or braking has come IMHO

    Yes newer tyres will always be better than old hard ones but I don't necessarily think that you need the latest and greatest tyre out designed for track stars when it comes to riding on the street

    Very few riders are capable of riding their bikes anywhere near the limits particularly on the streets except maybe for Ryno who's a track star
    Track based tyres as far as I'm aware are not really suitable on the street as they are generally softer and wear more and require heat to be kept in them to maintain their grip

    I think on most bikes for the average person any decent brand of tyre these days will do you OK whether it's a sport touring style tyre like the Pilot Road 3/4/Dunlop Roadsmart or a more track oriented tyre like Michelin Power RS/Bridgie RS10R/Conti Race Attack

    The way you ride, how often, how far and the road surface have a huge bearing on what tyres to use
    I've tried sports tyres on my BB but given I'm a big heavy bloke on a heavy bike with a decent amount power on rough chip roads and liberal use of the right wrist I find they are worse than sports touring tyres like the PR2/3 as they get hot quicker and slide and wear out quicker Also not as good in the wet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para045 View Post
    From the way you've written it it sounds like you are more querying whether newer models of tyres make that much of a difference?
    I'd say newer technology tyres certainly have improved things but I don't think it's probably as big an improvement difference as say handling or braking has come IMHO
    That's exactly what I was getting at. The pilot powers and the diablos were the top of the line tyres when they were released it's just they were released some time ago.

    When I bought my 650 hyo the tyres were square so I went and got pilot radials fitted and went omg they're amazing.

    Bought my blade and the front was illegal rear was square. The bridgestones had just came out and was brand new technology and offered a 16" front wheel and was the same price as the other so I had them fitted.

    I ride the gixxer everywhere I bought it as a commuter and I'm not exactly flush at the moment but it needs some new tread and trying to avoid spending the $500 that the bridgestones cost me.

    I've not had enough experience on bikes to feel the difference between brands as in the 15k ive done on them I've never gone from a good tyre to a replacement good tyre. Its these are shagged I better get new ones and bought whatever was recommended at the shop.

    If I had the money I honestly think I'd go some sports tourers on the gixxer to get some good miles out of them but at the moment i can buy front and rear tyres for about the cost of an s/t rear so may be a false economy.

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    The more 'Race' the tyre is the more ineffective it will be as a 'Road' tyre for Road use.
    A 'Race' tyre likes to be warm all over to be effective. Generally to achieve that you have to lower the pressure to maintain a more constant all over temperature.
    The down side of that is the tyre will flatten out in the middle for a general road riding.
    There is nothing worse than having a 'sticky' tyre through one 'burb', leave that 'burb', travel down a main artery for a k or so, duck into another 'burb' and have to ease into the first couple of corners because your sticky as become slidey in a couple of minutes.
    In the days when we had a Scarb Bike Bays it was an education to look at the rear tyres on bikes.
    The Super go fast tyres generally have wider chicken strips on them than the width of my front tyre.
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    The big one is ability to put more power down on corner exit, in warm, dry conditions.

    If you aren't spinning your current tyre, within the same brand's "sport" tyre range you (probably, as constantly being on the limit of braking and turning on street is a recipe for disaster) won't notice a huge difference. But the sportier tyre may even be worse in rain/cold.

    As GreenMeanie stated, stickier tyres are compromised and less good in cold weather, rain, etc. It is possible to go too far for street use. This is why both street tyres and race tyres exist.

    S21s may be expensive, but you need to take mileage into account. The newer hyper-sport tyres in that class get about 40% more mileage (at same/better grip level - claimed by manufacturer, and i have verified with both michelins and bridgestones). So if they're < 40% more expensive than what you'd otherwise be looking at with previous generation tyres, they're not "Expensive" really.

    Vs. Pilot Power originals, anything recent from bridgestone in their sport lineup (e.g., S20 or later) will shit on it - both in terms of grip and longevity, by a long way. You can get the same or better grip with the newer model tyres with better tyre life. Or the same tyre life, with better grip.

    If you don't like the feel, try changing brand, they all seem to have their own feel due to carcass construction and roll profile.
    If you need more/less durability but like the feel go up/down the product lineup within your favoured brand. The S20 in my experience was a pretty awesome allrounder. Haven't tried S21s yet, but I loved RS10s on track and am getting similar tyre life out of RS10s as i did with Power 2CTs and they're significantly stickier. Will suck for winter but they'll be worn out by then.

    So my current picks are RS10 for summer, S21 for winter. If you don't like bridgestones, YMMV.


    edit:
    to the original point though - don't buy shit tyres. they're the only thing between you and the road. cliche, but they can make a huge difference - between something that's "good enough" and something that's garbage.

    If you like S21s I'd stick with them. That class of bridgestone tyre is great, and if you're not looking to change tyres for summer to be more of a dick on corner exit, they'll work well all year in any condition. They'll last a lot longer (30+ percent) than stuff like Power original, 2CTs, Pures, Bridgestone BT015s, BT016s, Pirelli DRCs, etc.
    Last edited by thro; 25-04-2017 at 01:06 PM.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

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    The current tyre doesn't spin at all once it's up to temperature it will lift multiple gears if you want to be a dick on it exiting corners.

    The reasons I was asking about the difference in the tyres is I honestly know for a fact I'm not a good enough rider to surpass the abilities of the older top tyres. Now thats not to say the newer technology might aid me where my skills lack though. But the mileage makes a strong point. I didnt realise how much the newer ones last then the older era tyres.

    I don't have many complaints about the pirellis that are on it apart from the fact they take a bit to warm up and are scary when cold. I also find they dont like being turned in lazy at decent speeds.

    I don't know if its just being used to the blade having a 16" wheel at the front and turning in faster? I find it easy to turn wide if leaning with the bike at decent speeds. Im finding I'm having to transition the weight of my arse and change the angle of my hips and push it down in the direction im wanting it to lean if that makes sense.

    Since figuring this out theirs not many complaints about it I only had to do that on the cbr when really being an idiot but this one seems to be more often.

    Are their any hypersport or modern tyres worth looking into that would run less then $500 for the pair? The front and rear both need replacing.

    Also I'm having issues finding information on the pirelli diablos as theirs apparently ten different models but the seller has told me they're the original. Are they a road sport tyre or closer to a race tyre? If they handle okay when cold and aren't bad in the rain I may get them to fill in before going to some s21s.

    I'm hoping my car sells in a few weeks and I can buy whatever tyres I like but until then I'm riding on tyres that are right around the time I'd change out as I dont think its worth running the risk on them being close to illegal as I know the handling characteristics change dramatically when they get down to 20% or less. In cars they do anyway and I'm assuming the effects would be greater on a motorcycle.

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    I've seen the road smart 2 are a decent price and I've heard theyre a great sports touring tyre but the pressure changes often in them and they get quite twitchy if theyre too low.

    Also I've seen good deals on contimotion and love continentals on cars but they don't get the best reviews on bikes.

    Are the sports touring tyres worth looking at or will the power of the gixxer over power them and I'll run into wheel spin issues that I dont have now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrop.senator View Post
    I've seen the road smart 2 are a decent price and I've heard theyre a great sports touring tyre but the pressure changes often in them and they get quite twitchy if theyre too low.

    Also I've seen good deals on contimotion and love continentals on cars but they don't get the best reviews on bikes.

    Are the sports touring tyres worth looking at or will the power of the gixxer over power them and I'll run into wheel spin issues that I dont have now?
    I know some guys over east on OzBB liked the Roadsmarts but also have heard some guys have issues with them
    Also IMO don't be afraid of mixing types of tyres either ie I run Pilot Powers/2ct etc on the front as they help quicken the steering given my BB isn't the quickest steering bike around but I run a Pilot Road 2/3 rear as I get more grip surprisingly when ridden hard and they last longer than a Pilot Power

    As I said being a heavy guy on a heavy bike and the fact I ride quite hard through the rough back roads and it really takes a toll on tyres and surprisingly I usually wear out the sides quicker than the centre IF I'm really a heavy handed muppet while leaned over on bumpy roads then I can get the PR3's to spin up but again it really comes down to how you ride as you can't get away with riding like that on suburban streets generally YMMV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para045 View Post
    Also IMO don't be afraid of mixing types of tyres
    Agh rogie! A lot of shops I'd spoken to told me that mixing tyres on a bike was a big no no as they wont sit at the same temperatures and react differently. I was told to always use matching tyres.

    I had the pilot road on my hyosung and was greatly impressed by them. I might see what the price is locally havent seen any good prices online for those.

    The road sports are $340 delivered which is pretty damn reasonable. I'm hoping i can fit and balance myself but if the car balancer won't work on the bike wheel balancing at a shop shouldn't be to pricey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrop.senator View Post
    Agh rogie! A lot of shops I'd spoken to told me that mixing tyres on a bike was a big no no as they wont sit at the same temperatures and react differently. I was told to always use matching tyres.
    Your front and rear tires will be different temps even if they are the same brand and make. Front and rear tires generate heat differently. I mix different brands of tires on the road and at the race track

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    mixing tyres is fine.

    front -must always be the stickier tyre!
    eg: F pilot power 2, R pilot road 2.
    They wear out about the same time, so u can replace both at the same time.
    ...never had a problem.

    my pick: pilot road 3...best for all round and wet weather and
    definitely worth the extra dollars.

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    The S21 is hard to beat on the road, and is a fine tyre to run on the track (especially in the wet). I've been using the S20 and then the S21 since about 2015, and I ride in varied conditions. Hot, cold, wet, dry, country, suburban, and the S21 handles everything. It gives you plenty of notice when it's planning to let go (like on oily, sandy, or loose surfaces) and has good grip from cold and handles commuting well with it's hard centre. For ~$500 I don't know of a better road tyre, and considering I get over 12,000kms per set (usually longer on a front, I am on a 600 not a superbike though) they are a worthy canditate to be chosen for any bike. I'd save up the coin and invest in a set, I'm pretty sure one of the dealers is having a sale on Bridgestone at the moment that includes S21s. Good tyres are the best mod you can do to a bike
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    Alright lots to think about. Next question how worn are these tyres? I can only find markers on the sides but the centres more so gone I do around 1200ks a month do these tyres have another 1200 in them? Budget wont be an issue by then.





    Rear



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    I hated the high curve of the Pirelli's but have grown to love the Pirelli SP tyres, would rather beg and steal for a better set of tyres anyday than have it slip out and go through the aftermath.


    RR

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    I would not ride in the wet on those tyres.
    Tp.
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    I would replace those tyres ASAP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harrop.senator View Post
    ...I had the pilot road on my hyosung and was greatly impressed by them. I might see what the price is locally havent seen any good prices online for those.

    The road sports are $340 delivered which is pretty damn reasonable. I'm hoping i can fit and balance myself but if the car balancer won't work on the bike wheel balancing at a shop shouldn't be to pricey.
    Just be aware...MC Tyre shops now charge more for those who buy their tyres elsewhere;
    expect to pay anything up $ 70 per tyre for fitting.

    Get a few quotes locally first before buying online.....Tyres 4 Bikes are very good but can be exy.


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    I always see craig at pit stop i think he said 30 ea or so for fitting and balancing if i couldnt do it myself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah i thought they were bust to hence asking about the $230 ones I've got 300 spare at the moment til my truck or ute sells and was thinking they had to be better then what I've got on there now!
    Ill ring craig tomorrow n check the fit n balance price.

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    Those tyres are pretty fucked (like 90% plus worn - you need plenty of tread to evacuate water), replace. Any half decent super-sport tyre will be better than those by a lot, and i'd say coming into winter, a new set would be higher priority than worrying about how high end to go with them. Again, coming into winter, i'd say things like RS10s, Super Corsas and the like would be more of a liability for the next 6 months than a benefit (vs. say an S20, or Power 2CT/Power 3 or even Road 3/4)

    You might get 1200 km out of them, but as above i wouldn't go riding in the rain with them if you can avoid it, and the shape is probably well worn out of shape from new and won't tip in like a new set. Also if they're old and spent a lot of time in the sun the rubber will be past its best. No you won't instantly just bin your shit, but they'll just probably feel horrible and won't perform.

    Mixing/matching tyres may or may not work. It really depends.

    They're designed to work as a matched pair (in terms of shape, stiffness, etc.) - some combinations may work, some may not. Some combinations may improve the handling of your bike, but most of the time if that's the case its because you have sag related set up issues. Different tyres have different diameters and shapes, and the effect on handling can be either positive or negative by mixing. It's not always good. If you do plan on mixing, i'd ask around regarding the specific combination you plan on running to see if anyone has done it.

    However, some people like to run a Pilot road rear with a power front with the thinking that they'll go through 2 rears for every front if they don't (for example).

    Normally it LOOKS like your front has plenty of tread left when your rear is done with a regular PP combination but if you actually compare the front side by side to a new one when running matched pairs, you'll realise its actually pretty fucked (tread depth nowhere near what it would be new) - unless you're very aggressive with the rear (or maybe very not aggressive with the front?) or have something >1000cc and are still pretty full on with it. Fronts are cheap, anyway - and a new front makes the bike feel much nicer to ride.


    2c.


    edit:
    AS to "surpassing the abilities" of tyres... meh. For me its all about feel and confidence. E.g., i'm sure the Supercorsas for example are in theory a far grippier / higher performance tyre than Power 2CTs, but i've yet to find a Pirelli tyre i actually like. I can ride with them, i just don't like the front end feeling i get with them. Many people love them. I'd rather even run Power Pures, which most people hate. Which brings up another point. You may not like the tyre other guys do. That said if you like S21s, you'll probably like other current Bridgestones as well.

    I did mention the spinning thing because seriously, even the mid-range non-track day tyres (by that i mean the road-biased sports tyres, one step up from the sport touring stuff) these days are plenty unless you're being deliberately harsh with them. The other situation the stickier tyres will be of benefit is when you get them properly hot on track (the more road based tyres don't handle the heat quite so well because they're made mostly for road usage temperatures). But given we currently have no tracks in the metro area, thats less of a concern right now.
    Last edited by thro; 25-04-2017 at 07:13 PM.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa
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