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Thread: Official LAMS general discussion thread

  1. #41
    Member Towlybear's Avatar
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    So from what i've read, current RE class holders wont be affected?
    "I remember the first time I got my knee down on a track, it was like the first time I put my winkle inside a girl, I just wanted to tell all my mates."
    Keith Flint, The Prodigy.

  2. #42
    Member -J-'s Avatar
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    current R class riders wont be effected.

    Notes:

    All motorcycle up to 660ml built before December 1960 are approved.
    All motorcycles and scooters with electric powered engines are approved.
    All motorcycles with an engine capacity under 260ml are approved with the exception of:
    Suzuki - RGV250
    Kawasaki - KR250 (KR-1 and KR1s models)
    Honda - NSR250
    Yamaha - TZR250
    Aprila - RS250

    'When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.' - Robert M. Pirsig




  3. #43
    Member SOLID's Avatar
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    Doubt it will be retro active, very few pieces of legislation have (terrorist acts excluded). When the system changed for C class it only affected people beginning from then on. I assume they will play it the same or will be to confrontational.
    "Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"

  4. #44
    Member -J-'s Avatar
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    Pretty sure is going to be the same accross the board
    looking at the following examples
    The Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) introduced in Tasmania on 1 July 2007, is an initiative that
    identifies motorcycles that are considered suitable for motorcycle learners and for all riders in their first year
    after progressing from a motorcycle learner licence. It is aimed at improving the safety of motorcycle riders.

    LAMS motorcycles have a maximum power to weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne combined with a maximum engine capacity of 660 cubic centimetres (cc).
    The following motorcycles with engine capacities of
    261 – 660cc are approved under LAMS.These motorcycles must be in standard form
    as produced by the manufacturer. Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases
    its power-to-weight ratio is not LAMS approved regardless of whether it appears
    on the list.

    Learner and probationary riders are only allowed to ride motorcycles and
    scooters on the list of approved motorcycles for novice riders under the Learner
    Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS).

    LAMS gives novice riders access to a range of motorcycles and scooters that
    are appropriate to their level of experience and size. The LAMS list includes
    moderately powered models with an engine capacity up to and including 660cc
    which do not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne. The LAMS
    list will be updated as new models are approved by VicRoads.

    In addition to models in the list, all motorcycles manufactured prior to 1960
    with a cubic capacity up to and including 660cc and currently available fully
    electric powered motorcycles will be approved for use by learner and novice
    riders.
    The Learner Approved Motorcycle (LAM) scheme for novice riders commenced on 6 September 2002. The scheme has progressively been extended and now applies to provisional P1 and P2 riders.
    The LAM scheme allows novice riders to ride moderately powered motorcycles. These motorcycles must be:
    • listed in the publication known as ‘Approved Motorcycles for Novice Riders’ published on Roads and Maritime Services (replacing Roads and Traffic Authority) website and,
    • have an engine capacity up to and including 660ml and do not exceed a power to weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne.
    The publication is updated as new models are approved. It lists the makes and models of all motorcycles that can be ridden by learner and provisional riders. You can view or download the current list by clicking the link below.
    Motorcycle power and weight is based on manufacture data supplied for (ADR) compliance. Motorcycles can not be modified or restricted in order to be reclassified as learner approved.
    The Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAM Scheme) was introduced on 1 July 2009, and restricts class RE (restricted) motorcycle licence holders to a combined power-to-weight ratio and engine capacity restriction. The former 250 millilitre (mL) engine capacity restriction no longer applies.
    The objectives of the scheme are to:
    • improve safety for novice motorcycle riders
    • achieve consistency between Queensland and the other eastern states (New South Wales, Victoria, Australian Capital Territory, Tasmania and South Australia).
    they all say the same thing with slightly different wording.

    My guess and yes its a guess so do with it as you will, is that it will be the same in WA to bring it in line with NSW VIC ACT TAS and SA
    'When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.' - Robert M. Pirsig




  5. #45
    Member Towlybear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLID View Post
    Doubt it will be retro active, very few pieces of legislation have (terrorist acts excluded). When the system changed for C class it only affected people beginning from then on. I assume they will play it the same or will be to confrontational.
    Yeah thats what i was thinking, when they changed the laws regarding the time between obtaining 2nd phase L's and obtaining your C class it only affected people yet to do their practical test and get the 2nd phase. I know this because i missed out by like a week . But i do remember reading somewhere on this topic before that it isn't retroactive, but nothing is set in stone yet and every time this topic pops up i check again because i don't wanna be stuck on LAMS, i just want my R's and to be freeee
    "I remember the first time I got my knee down on a track, it was like the first time I put my winkle inside a girl, I just wanted to tell all my mates."
    Keith Flint, The Prodigy.

  6. #46
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    That's fine, but if you already own a non-approved LAMS bike, surely you shouldn't be forced off the road due to a rule change, whilst serving what was already law at the stage of license acquisition?

    So I should only serve and abide by the law that was governed and legislated at the time, et al.

  7. #47
    Member SOLID's Avatar
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    Well to my knowledge the only retroactive law that exists was the one applied in the case of David Hicks (terrorism as I mentioned before). I would be shocked to see it applied to a small time state regulation change. The other factor is that there should be a state election coming up and no government is going to rock the boat if they don't have to, before an election. They wont want a hoard of angry bike owners with pitch forks
    "Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"

  8. #48
    Member -J-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantic View Post
    That's fine, but if you already own a non-approved LAMS bike, surely you shouldn't be forced off the road due to a rule change, whilst serving what was already law at the stage of license acquisition?
    I would hope not, from what ive been reading through (very breifly mind you) there is no mention as to what happens to current RE class holders, so not looking very good.

    I would assume that there will be a few upset RE class holders when this finally occours.
    'When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.' - Robert M. Pirsig




  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLID View Post
    Well to my knowledge the only retroactive law that exists was the one applied in the case of David Hicks (terrorism as I mentioned before). I would be shocked to see it applied to a small time state regulation change. The other factor is that there should be a state election coming up and no government is going to rock the boat if they don't have to, before an election. They wont want a hoard of angry bike owners with pitch forks
    I'm sure some of those wealthy top end "Boat owners" and 'Passengers' were trialled/processed/givenawhitegoodspackage or there passengers were under retroactive law... hence why I am bit iffy about all this crap.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantic View Post
    I'm sure some of those wealthy top end "Boat owners" and 'Passengers' were trialled/processed/givenawhitegoodspackage or there passengers were under retroactive law... hence why I am bit iffy about all this crap.
    What incident are you referencing?
    "Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLID View Post
    What incident are you referencing?
    Retroactive people smuggler bill passed - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



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    Thank you kind sir *crawls out from under rock* I should have stayed under there. I really shouldn't be surprised (better not go on for fear of derailing the thread)
    "Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people"

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by -J- View Post
    I would hope not, from what ive been reading through (very breifly mind you) there is no mention as to what happens to current RE class holders, so not looking very good.

    I would assume that there will be a few upset RE class holders when this finally occours.
    NO jokes aside, i think im safe, i remember reading somewhere that LAMS still won't be brought in for a while so yeah, here's to hoping

    Edit: Ok after doing some research on the licensing centre website, all i've managed to pick up is that they want to change the way the whole licensing process is done (from R-E to R). As -J- said, there is no mention of current license holders which could be a good thing, but from what i've gathered ok reading a few other online forums and on the licensing centre's website, it still doesn't seem like LAMS will be coming too quickly, the government mentioned they wanted it by the end of 2012, but as it always is with the government it isn't a guarantee that they will deliver on time or when they said.
    Last edited by Towlybear; 28-02-2012 at 01:33 AM.
    "I remember the first time I got my knee down on a track, it was like the first time I put my winkle inside a girl, I just wanted to tell all my mates."
    Keith Flint, The Prodigy.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towlybear View Post
    NO jokes aside, i think im safe, i remember reading somewhere that LAMS still won't be brought in for a while so yeah, here's to hoping
    It was originally proposed for introduction June 30 2012, that date is coming up pretty quickly without a whole lot of action. It's the reason I put off replacing the vtr with another 250 yet, I was hoping to teach on a gs500 or sv650 that my wife can ride without a shadow as well, she's over the 250 but after 3 years still doesn't want her R class and I'm sick of putting L plates on 1000cc+ bikes for her
    Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

    when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

  15. #55
    Member Towlybear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbert View Post
    It was originally proposed for introduction June 30 2012, that date is coming up pretty quickly without a whole lot of action.
    Yeah they are all talk no action, which for me is good, all i need is for it to be pushed back another 3 or 4 months and ill be in the clear
    "I remember the first time I got my knee down on a track, it was like the first time I put my winkle inside a girl, I just wanted to tell all my mates."
    Keith Flint, The Prodigy.
    Likes mantic liked this post

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towlybear View Post
    Yeah they are all talk no action, which for me is good, all i need is for it to be pushed back another 3 or 4 months and ill be in the clear
    Hear hear!

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    Member Towlybear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantic View Post
    Hear hear!
    Hah, im assuming your in a similar situation to me then eh?
    "I remember the first time I got my knee down on a track, it was like the first time I put my winkle inside a girl, I just wanted to tell all my mates."
    Keith Flint, The Prodigy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantic View Post
    I'm sure they can't possibly get me to give up the RGV!

    Here is hoping that DPI allow current R-E's to live out the 12 months on a non LAMS approved bike... by then it will be only a month for me anyway, but still!
    I'm sure they wouldn't be able to stop you, our licenses say =< 250cc no mention of two stroke, power/weight or whether its running 12psi of boost.

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    Member darkfibre's Avatar
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    I have been following every release on the changes, and there has been no mention that I can find in the last 12 months of having 4 years on a LAMS bike. (It was however in the original discussion document)
    The current wording is about changing from capacity based restrictions to power to weight ratio based restrictions.
    Being an Australian is not an excuse for being dumb and racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    I'm sure they wouldn't be able to stop you, our licenses say =< 250cc no mention of two stroke, power/weight or whether its running 12psi of boost.
    I thought the DPI classified forced induction as 1.7 times the original capacity?
    Being an Australian is not an excuse for being dumb and racist.

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