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Thread: Getting those brakes sparky like new.

  1. #41
    Member Greg-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    Just a couple of recommendations what most mechanics will advise when doing brakes,
    don't push back the calipers with a screwdriver, either purchase a tool to push the piston back or use the old brake pad and a clamp that way both pistons will go back evenly, and there is less chance of a piston moving sideways,
    Also if you want to move just one then put a flat packer between it and the brake pad. I used a block of feeler gauges so they would catch both sides of the piston and push it evenly but ideally something wider is better. Most hardware shops sell plastic packers -some call window packers- they are cheap and about the right width and you can get them in different thicknesses. Actually they are also good if you want to bleed the brakes without potentially mucking up your pads. Drop the pads out slip one of them in and bleed away you can be as messy as you like as long as you clean up after yourself. It is actually better to add some hose to the bleed screw. But it was something we used to do when we reverse bleed bicycle brakes in case one of the hoses popped off and sprayed the shit everywhere.

    Oh another point that I haven't seen at PSB is that if you do spill brake fluid seal up the system so the water wont get in then get a squirty bottle or a hose and get water onto the spot. Don't get it anywhere near the brake fluid you want to use but the water will neutralise the brake fluid and it won't eat your paint.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
    Point made guys.

    PS: just for the record, my dick is way bigger.
    i would never had guessed that.

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    Member Bill-2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbert View Post
    you'll find that it's most often brake dust and road grime on the pistons, the seal by design and definition wipes the piston as it moves in and out.

    brake fluid does go off but it's not necessarily due to age, it's hygroscopic and absorbs water from exposure to atmosphere, this is to stop water droplets forming and creating rust in metal brake lines, it affects brake performance and fluid boiling point but doesn't create the grime on the caliper pistons.
    Yeah I do know what causes brake fluid to go off and this is the reason why it should be flushed regularly, Holden recommend every 2 years, for a flush, As for crud buildup I'm talking about inside the caliper this is what causes sticky and seized pistons the brake dust etc will just need cleaning when pads are replaced this however unless a bike has sat for a few years should not cause a piston to stick unless it wasn't cleaned properly at the last pad change.
    K1 Bandit 1200S,

  4. #44
    Member Greg-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    unless it wasn't cleaned properly at the last pad change.
    Bill I am not having a go I am just asking.
    How do you, go about cleaning the pistons without pulling them apart when you do a pad change.
    To make this thread a bit more useful to others. That's all.

  5. #45
    Member Bill-2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg-D View Post
    Also if you want to move just one then put a flat packer between it and the brake pad. I used a block of feeler gauges so they would catch both sides of the piston and push it evenly but ideally something wider is better. Most hardware shops sell plastic packers -some call window packers- they are cheap and about the right width and you can get them in different thicknesses. Actually they are also good if you want to bleed the brakes without potentially mucking up your pads. Drop the pads out slip one of them in and bleed away you can be as messy as you like as long as you clean up after yourself. It is actually better to add some hose to the bleed screw. But it was something we used to do when we reverse bleed bicycle brakes in case one of the hoses popped off and sprayed the shit everywhere.

    Oh another point that I haven't seen at PSB is that if you do spill brake fluid seal up the system so the water wont get in then get a squirty bottle or a hose and get water onto the spot. Don't get it anywhere near the brake fluid you want to use but the water will neutralise the brake fluid and it won't eat your paint.
    The old brake pad is used as a packer to push the piston back, also another thing you learn as a 1st year apprentice is you should never attempt to blead brakes when they are not attached to the disk, so that is pads fitted and attached to disk, Bleeding is the last thing you do after everything is reassembled,
    As for Mess I use a hose and small bottle for bleeding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg-D View Post
    Also if you want to move just one then put a flat packer between it and the brake pad. I used a block of feeler gauges so they would catch both sides of the piston and push it evenly but ideally something wider is better. Most hardware shops sell plastic packers -some call window packers- they are cheap and about the right width and you can get them in different thicknesses. Actually they are also good if you want to bleed the brakes without potentially mucking up your pads. Drop the pads out slip one of them in and bleed away you can be as messy as you like as long as you clean up after yourself. It is actually better to add some hose to the bleed screw. But it was something we used to do when we reverse bleed bicycle brakes in case one of the hoses popped off and sprayed the shit everywhere.

    Oh another point that I haven't seen at PSB is that if you do spill brake fluid seal up the system so the water wont get in then get a squirty bottle or a hose and get water onto the spot. Don't get it anywhere near the brake fluid you want to use but the water will neutralise the brake fluid and it won't eat your paint.
    The old brake pad is used as a packer to push the piston back, also another thing you learn as a 1st year apprentice is you should never attempt to blead brakes when they are not attached to the disk, so that is pads fitted and attached to disk, Bleeding is the last thing you do after everything is reassembled,
    As for Mess I use a hose and small bottle for bleeding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg-D View Post
    Also if you want to move just one then put a flat packer between it and the brake pad. I used a block of feeler gauges so they would catch both sides of the piston and push it evenly but ideally something wider is better. Most hardware shops sell plastic packers -some call window packers- they are cheap and about the right width and you can get them in different thicknesses. Actually they are also good if you want to bleed the brakes without potentially mucking up your pads. Drop the pads out slip one of them in and bleed away you can be as messy as you like as long as you clean up after yourself. It is actually better to add some hose to the bleed screw. But it was something we used to do when we reverse bleed bicycle brakes in case one of the hoses popped off and sprayed the shit everywhere.

    Oh another point that I haven't seen at PSB is that if you do spill brake fluid seal up the system so the water wont get in then get a squirty bottle or a hose and get water onto the spot. Don't get it anywhere near the brake fluid you want to use but the water will neutralise the brake fluid and it won't eat your paint.
    The old brake pad is used as a packer to push the piston back, also another thing you learn as a 1st year apprentice is you should never attempt to blead brakes when they are not attached to the disk, so that is pads fitted and attached to disk, Bleeding is the last thing you do after everything is reassembled,
    As for Mess I use a hose and small bottle for bleeding.
    K1 Bandit 1200S,

  6. #46
    Member Bill-2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg-D View Post
    Bill I am not having a go I am just asking.How do you, go about cleaning the pistons without pulling them apart when you do a pad change.To make this thread a bit more useful to others. That's all.
    remove caliper remove pads clean out all the loose stuff with a small soft brush I normally use a paintbrush wash out with wax and grease remover wipe dry refit old pad to 1 side and push in with a g clamp, fit old pad to the other side push piston in with gclamp reassemble bleed done.
    K1 Bandit 1200S,
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  7. #47
    Member Greg-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    The old brake pad is used as a packer to push the piston back,
    You miss read what I said. The packer is in addition to using the old pads to restrict the movement of one piston and force the other to move by it self.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    also another thing you learn as a 1st year apprentice is you should never attempt to blead brakes when they are not attached to the disk, so that is pads fitted and attached to disk, Bleeding is the last thing you do after everything is reassembled,
    Not always and it doesn't have to be. If I can't get the parts I go onto something else I don't wait for the parts to arrive. If you can use a packer instead of the disc then you can have the brakes completely removed from the bike and still do the job. Actually this is an easy way to do the job and get all the air out of those pesky little airlock spots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    As for Mess I use a hose and small bottle for bleeding.
    I did mention the hose. I also mentioned that this is what we used to do on bicycles.
    Mountain bike brakes are way smaller and you can't get away with the stuff you can on motorbikes.
    You use different techniques but the principles are all the same and believe it or not the risks are just the same. Especially when your talking race bikes the average speed through a lot of turns is pretty much the same as a motorcycle (down hill flat out driving into a berm)
    But the things that I learnt from working on these bikes have given me a wider scope of knowledge and working on motorcycles is a piece of piss compared to those fiddly little buggers.
    If someone is new to working on bikes and don't know the pitfalls it can be pretty messy.

    What if someone puts the new pads in and the brakes are still not good.
    How can you bleed the brakes whilst fitted to the bike and be sure that you wont get the shit everywhere if something goes wrong.
    What if the hose pops off. If that hasn't happened to you then wait a bit it will.
    It was to help people who don't know, not the people who do.
    It was not directed AT you even though it may have quoted you.
    Karma = your actions and the consequences of them.
    Dogma = your ideas that you cling to so dearly.

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  8. #48
    Member Greg-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill-2014 View Post
    remove caliper remove pads clean out all the loose stuff with a small soft brush I normally use a paintbrush wash out with wax and grease remover wipe dry refit old pad to 1 side and push in with a g clamp, fit old pad to the other side push piston in with gclamp reassemble bleed done.
    I also push a little pressure on the brake lever to see that the pistons are working together and find any other crap that might be on the piston.
    This doesn't help clean the sleeve much, but it will let you know how they are working and what else might need sorting out.
    What I have learned from this thread is that it is not a great idea to use the O-rings as a tool to clean the sleeves.
    Pretty obvious really but when you look for shortcuts you can usually find them, but that doesn't mean that they are a good idea.
    Unless you are trying to sell O-rings that is
    Karma = your actions and the consequences of them.
    Dogma = your ideas that you cling to so dearly.

    If you need an move of explanation go here. It's about right, except for the religious bit.

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    I use a 12" square shank and lever the thingo open enough to get the caliper over the disk.

    If I fuck the job up I then have to fix it.

    That is the way I lern.

    The seal is only stuffed if it is leaking and if the brakes are stick. If they are stick I work them until the corroded bits come off the pistons. Once I had to drag the bike with the car to get the rusted disks freed up. It werked.

    I have not dide yet.
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  10. #50
    Member Bill-2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg-D View Post
    You miss read what I said. The packer is in addition to using the old pads to restrict the movement of one piston and force the other to move by it self.
    I don't know why you would restrict 1 or want to not shure if someone told you that it can be done but from what I have learnt and been instructed is that you should never do it under any circumstances,

    Not always and it doesn't have to be. If I can't get the parts I go onto something else I don't wait for the parts to arrive. If you can use a packer instead of the disc then you can have the brakes completely removed from the bike and still do the job. Actually this is an easy way to do the job and get all the air out of those pesky little airlock spots.
    yea always because if not you can push out the pistons past the seals resulting in leaks or even damaged seals,

    I did mention the hose. I also mentioned that this is what we used to do on bicycles.
    Mountain bike brakes are way smaller and you can't get away with the stuff you can on motorbikes.
    You use different techniques but the principles are all the same and believe it or not the risks are just the same. Especially when your talking race bikes the average speed through a lot of turns is pretty much the same as a motorcycle (down hill flat out driving into a berm)
    But the things that I learnt from working on these bikes have given me a wider scope of knowledge and working on motorcycles is a piece of piss compared to those fiddly little buggers.
    If someone is new to working on bikes and don't know the pitfalls it can be pretty messy.
    If someone is new to working on bikes they should have someone experienced there to supervise and show them what to do when it comes to brakes,

    What if someone puts the new pads in and the brakes are still not good.
    How can you bleed the brakes whilst fitted to the bike and be sure that you wont get the shit everywhere if something goes wrong.
    What if the hose pops off. If that hasn't happened to you then wait a bit it will.
    It was to help people who don't know, not the people who do.
    It was not directed AT you even though it may have quoted you.
    yeah I realise that I was just adding that as well as the hose I use a bottle,
    if the hose pops of then you have to big ID pipe should be a tight fit,

    but if it dose pop of not an issue just wash everything with water.
    another tip with using a bottle put some brake fluid in the bottom and fully submerge the hose this will reduce any chance of airbubbles getting in the lines if the leaver is released whilst the bleed nipple is still open.
    K1 Bandit 1200S,

  11. #51
    Member GsxInShed's Avatar
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    post #51
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by GsxInShed View Post
    post #51
    If your gonna have a chat. Then it might as well be a long one.
    Karma = your actions and the consequences of them.
    Dogma = your ideas that you cling to so dearly.

    If you need an move of explanation go here. It's about right, except for the religious bit.

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    From this Greg, to you Greg.
    A chat is:" only too long if everyone has already left."
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."
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  14. #54
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    And all the in-animate objects have gone as well.
    Karma = your actions and the consequences of them.
    Dogma = your ideas that you cling to so dearly.

    If you need an move of explanation go here. It's about right, except for the religious bit.

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    Siezed calipers

    Now we are getting somewhere, experienced people sharing their knowledge in a non confrontational manner. This is what makes PSB great......most of the time.
    My 2C
    I had to completely rebuild my old XV1000M brake system; same as 82-3 XJ750. Here's some noob mistakes and wins I had. The pistons were siezed to the disk, I mean I could hardly move the front wheel.
    I sprayed CRC brake clean at the the pistons and pads in situ and l left them to evaporate. I then tried in vain to remove the front wheel....F#@k & blood! Called my older brother Brett
    for some advice (tuned MX race bikes, & old road bikes for years); Brett said discs may be warped, pistons corroded so be prepared to spend some money on rebuild or replacement of
    calipers. Second piece of advice was loosen calipers then soak pistons and pads overnight. You would never normally spray anything oil based onto the brake surfaces, however this was to remove
    the wheel, in order to inspect the damage to brake system. Oil and brakes is an obvious potential disaster. The entire calipers were fully stripped and cleaned with Brake cleaner once removed, as was the disc surface.

    The next day the wheel came out, with the application of braun and liberal amounts of bush mechanic language. The disc was still miraculously true and within thickness. The pistons wouldn't budge
    using bleeding system, so I removed the calipers and Ian at Maddington motorcycle wreckers pushed them out with compressed air. Be bloody careful doing this as there is potential to ingress a piston or debris into your eyes, Wear safety glasses!
    The damage to the callipers was only limited to some light corrosion to a piston and bore, the other caliper was serviceable. The whole job only cost me my time (too long as I'm probably OCD),
    a piston and a light polish to the bore face, a pair of seal kits for the calipers, new pads, a master cylinder kit plus oil. Maybe $130 I ran with the original hoses to keep it authentic, but eventually
    changed them out for braided hoses.
    The bleed job took an eternity, mainly my fault, as I found air pockets trapped in the Y junction, where the brake hoses split 1/2, which caused some grief; tapping this area and the master cylinder
    helped. Rookie.
    In hindsight back bleeding would have been better after an initial bleed in the conventional manner. Hope this may help a hapless noobie to restoring.
    Bare in mind I had this machine gifted to me by my good friend Griz who had upgraded to a Road King. The crazy bastard had been riding this old cruiser around for months like this and thought it was just typical of old Jap brakes. He had been using the engine and the rear drum brake all the time he owned it! Made for an interesting ride home from Mosman Park to Forrestfield when I originally picked it up from Griz's place.................... pucker, pucker,pucker!
    "Love a ranga today"

    "How long, not long, because because what you reap is what you sow"
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    I , too, have more time for inanimate objects , than most people I meet.
    On the other hand so have they.

    I had Pirtek make up ADR braided hoses,by sample for the efe front end conversion I put onto the 250 Katana.
    No waiting for OS freight.. no bullshit ...just done.
    Add new seals n pistons. Rgv 250 wheel and calipers.. ceramic pads...waved discs...mmmm ...GSXR 1000 Master cylinder.....
    Oh and Dot 4 fluid... reverse bled with Mity-Vac ... and My OCD front brake dilemma is done...works great..
    ( Hot Tip; ALWAYS clean rotors with metho or grease remover before road test..mm Kay?)
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maloney67 View Post
    Now we are getting somewhere, experienced people sharing their knowledge in a non confrontational manner. This is what makes PSB great......most of the time.
    I need confrontation otherwise nobody pays any attention to me

    pushed them out with compressed air.
    i think GsxInShed already mentioned it but you can hook a grease gun up to the bleed nipple and pump the pistons out with hydraulic force
    Do you remember the good old days before the internet?

    when arguments were only entered into by the physically or intellectually able.

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    Shithot filbert and GsxInShed. There is a wealth of experience here ( blows wind up arse ) and this thread although starting out shaky will be of benefit to many.
    "Love a ranga today"

    "How long, not long, because because what you reap is what you sow"

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    Arse wind is a very bad thing.

    As an aside..
    I had the master cyl and calipers in the sink under water to bleed out the pistons ..before rebuilding them.. easy as....and you can scrub/clean as you go....
    No worries about trapped air..eh?
    Patent Pending..



    hey mods what's this report post thingy at the bottom of page....?
    Last edited by GsxInShed; 03-01-2016 at 01:06 PM.
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by filbert View Post
    I need confrontation otherwise nobody pays any attention to me
    Oh I'm sorry did you say something? I wasn't paying attention


    Quote Originally Posted by GsxInShed View Post
    Arse wind is a very bad thing.

    Only for other people that can smell it

    hey mods what's this report post thingy at the bottom of page....?
    That increases your perceived reputation on PSB I suggest you go through as many threads as you can hitting the button to improve yours
    #1 Gold Ticket Holder for the Barfridge Fan Club
    Quote Originally Posted by Phildo View Post
    Noted. We'll check back on that one in three years
    Quote Originally Posted by filbert View Post
    i'll pretend you didn't know she was 13

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