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Thread: Motor Sports WA (MSWA) Seeking Support and Publicity

  1. #141
    Member ReCon's Avatar
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    Scott52 .

    What is the difference between 'standard' bitumen and FIM or race compliant track? Cost, physical differences , ect.?

    Every time PI is mentioned, or any of the European tracks, the track seems to be fairly high tech affair.

    Will different levels of compaction be needed? Base metal size for grip? Camber? Gravel sizes in the mix?
    Will build times be affected by that? Cost differences? Asphalt?

    Is there a major difference between a high speed track and the 'standard' road base?
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  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    Not sure if this will work but i think most here are following this already.
    Its a pity that WASCC wont make any official comment. Also Shady you know im not one sided on this youve liked post i made arguing FOR improvements on the wascc chat page. https://m.facebook.com/groups/152168...=group_comment

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    Yes you can have moments of sanity/clarity *patronising pat on head*

    But seriously your attitude here is completely wrong and my previous post still stands. You have not brought any discussion to the table only throwing toys out of the pram tanty that WASCC aren't the bad guys.


    Answer me this WHY should the users pay for an upgrade to the facility?
    Name any other situation where the user pays for the upgrades to suit their needs.


    So the WASCC committee has changed and is allegedly more forward thinking.
    Why have they not approached the riders to open the table of discussion fronting with "We are not the old committee.' How can WE work with you.
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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady7/8 View Post
    So the WASCC committee has changed and is allegedly more forward thinking.
    From what I can gather, every time the committee changes people are filled with hope that there will finally be a reasonable person/people to deal with...but nothing changes because it is ALL about the WASCC NOT running the track for all users. They see it as Their Track, which you can see from TTPM's responses in these threads...heels have been dug in for years and the track-monopoly MUST be taken from them as there is no compromise.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by =maz= View Post
    from what i can gather, every time the committee changes people are filled with hope that there will finally be a reasonable person/people to deal with...but nothing changes because it is all about the wascc not running the track for all users. They see it as their track, which you can see from ttpm's responses in these threads...heels have been dug in for years and the track-monopoly must be taken from them as there is no compromise.
    exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Luther King Jnr
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  5. #145
    Member Scott52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReCon View Post
    Scott52 .

    What is the difference between 'standard' bitumen and FIM or race compliant track? Cost, physical differences , ect.?

    Every time PI is mentioned, or any of the European tracks, the track seems to be fairly high tech affair.

    Will different levels of compaction be needed? Base metal size for grip? Camber? Gravel sizes in the mix?
    Will build times be affected by that? Cost differences? Asphalt?

    Is there a major difference between a high speed track and the 'standard' road base?
    ReCon the construction method and materials are the same. The pavement is a limestone sub base about 200mm followed by a crushed rock road base 100mm. The asphalt is the same as used on roundabouts and about 40mm thick. The lateral loading generated by trucks and buses on a standard suburban roundabout are equivalent or more than a V8 race car on wide slicks.

    Race circuits are quite easy to build as they're not subjected to the AS Highway Design Code in regards to sight distances. Therefore they tend to follow the contours and don't require much earthworks. Drainage is achieved with gradients rather than culverts. The circuit is supposed to challenge riders and drivers by having blind corner entries and the like.

    The method is to box out about 200 + 100 + 40 = 340mm and build the pavement in the normal way. It's simple work from a road construction perspective.
    Last edited by Scott52; 15-09-2016 at 01:05 PM.
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  6. #146
    Member Mr Bean's Avatar
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    Interesting... https://m.facebook.com/groups/152168...er_action_list

    Thomas Benson
    At the risk of boring you absolutely senseless and leaving all you readers confused, might i say this whole string of discussion as to who owns a piece of sand to a depth of 45 meters is a worthless and fruitless exercise, Now, I wont go into depth of discussion regarding the implications of Terra nullius nor the virtues of Mabo verses the Commonwealth of Australia, even the fundamental differences with land use between fee simple and a lease, crown lease, vested interest or a pastoral and or mining lease. WHY? Because it has no bearing on the outcome, Therefore just take it for granted that you (The WASCC) has land use of the parcel of land on which the circuit and the amenities are built, you are free to use them in accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth, the State, Local instrumentality, their rules and laws and by-laws, special rules and policies. Exactly the same as your little ole 1/4 acre in Balga or Peppy Grove. If the government wants your land for other uses and feels you have broken the law and need to seize your property, they can effectively, and do, If you haven't been a crook, then usually compensation is paid. that's the long and short of it. It has become patently evident to me, (that means i have the documents to prove it) that members of the committee and sub committee along with members of the club have colluded to have the ownership of the circuit and its improvements handed over to a body which is clearly owned by the club, and subsequently taken from the club, by writing into its constitution that they are the members and not the members of the WASCC whom own the company limited by liability, then to further the matter they have obtained support from the Department Of Sports and Recreation, Department of Parks and Wildlife to have your land use agreements to themselves. This comes with the additional written supoport of the AJS motor Cycle Club, V8 Superboats, CAMS, Motor Cycle Racing Club of WA and its governing body
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  7. #147
    Member chew's Avatar
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    Maybe this is a cunning plan by the previous board to gain control of all motorsport venues in W.A. and then hand it back to the WASCC on a platter. The legal action is just to throw the dogs off the scent.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits
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  8. #148
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    SP RACINGis supported by:
    MSC Safe Co.com.au S&K Mineservices.com.au
    Motorcycle Panel and Paint.com.au Metroframing.com.au
    Jaguarsteelfabrications.com.au DiLena.com.au
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by cob14 View Post
    Why not? MA could say the track is non compliant but maybe take into account the unique situation in WA and give a 3 year deadline to make it comply, after which they ban racing... I mean it sounds like there would never have been an audit at all if it weren't for Scott's efforts.
    I'd think it would be possible depending on what the safety recommendations are ie IF air fences etc were considered adequate as a temporary measure until the main works were completed they may be able to get approval
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    Would this mean that there will be TWO racing precincts being built concurrently, or does it appear that Albany gets the nod?

    It would be pretty exciting if 2 racing areas were built, but at the same time, Albany might be a god send in the long term with Perth's urban spread type developement mantra. Do it once, do it well.

    Either way, there might be better times ahead for speed freaks with luck.

    Just hope whomever gets the rights to run the venture get the all clear and we can continue with the build without controversy.
    Sventek, being a predominantly lazy fuck can you please purchase some for me, bring me the stuff, create something I want after you think of it for me then clean my house, wash my car, dog, bike breathe for me.
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  11. #151
    Member Stephan's Avatar
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    I'd say it is two venues, managed by the same people...
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  12. #152
    Member SomeBloke's Avatar
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    I think the final plan is for a total of 3, managed by MSWA, probably with a caretaker club or something I imagine.
    "Life begins at the end of your comfort zone."

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    Here's the Today Tonight segment.

    https://www.facebook.com/TodayTonigh...1781890861265/
    “How people treat you is their karma; how you respond is yours.”
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    Some chat from the WASCC. https://m.facebook.com/groups/152168...er_action_list

    The point of this discussion is that the WASCC formed MSWA as an organisation to expand facilities in this state, some members within its ranks have at a point thought they want to have possession of that body, presumably for their own notoriety or wealth and have received government money they were not entitled to, to that end, they sent $2.6 million of the clubs money out of the club, money that was earmarked for facilities for members and other interest groups like bikes, drift, sprint, MOTORKAHANA and channeled the money into their own companies or wallets,
    “How people treat you is their karma; how you respond is yours.”

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    One big happy family over at WASCC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hati View Post
    One big happy family over at WASCC
    And that my friends is why clubs managing ANYTHING for anything other than their own self interest doesn't work. To many egos in the mix in every club to even have their own shit together.
    The Bend

    Hurry Up!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    And that my friends is why clubs managing ANYTHING for anything other than their own self interest doesn't work. To many egos in the mix in every club to even have their own shit together.
    Huh? You do realise who they're talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    Huh? You do realise who they're talking about?

    Sent from my SM-G360G using Tapatalk
    Yep and I'd have to see the details of exactly what the government funds were provided for and weather the WASCC was in fact doing what they were supposed to be doing with it. I can't give you a factual answer either way on that one. If it wasn't though I would hope my hard earned tax dollars were moved to somewhere that would ensure it was used as intended.

    As I stated in my previous post though it does highlight why a club is not the right management structure to protect the interest of multiple user groups. As appears the case here like every other club I have been involved in they struggle to even look after their own interests as a whole as they are to busy putting out all the fires from the war games between their own members.
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  19. #159
    Member acdcfan's Avatar
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    So what I want to know is why is WASCC so against MSWA...?
    At the end day, leave WASCC where they are and build new facilities and don't look back. If what what ever reason WASCC does not want to come to the party so be it.
    I cannot understand why has this WASCC vs MSWA become such a shit fight. If at some point WASCC wants to come on board I am sure they will be welcomed and have the track extended as proposed. Maybe V8 should be approached for some funding, and have their fees reduced for certain period of time or something.

    Is the figure of $35 mill correct to build all if it? Scott, can you share some light on that

    oh and Scott52, finally put the face to the username

    I know I am dreaming but it may attract MotoGP to come to Perth on top of PI round?
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  20. #160
    Member Scott52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdcfan View Post
    So what I want to know is why is WASCC so against MSWA...?
    At the end day, leave WASCC where they are and build new facilities and don't look back. If what what ever reason WASCC does not want to come to the party so be it.
    I cannot understand why has this WASCC vs MSWA become such a shit fight. If at some point WASCC wants to come on board I am sure they will be welcomed and have the track extended as proposed. Maybe V8 should be approached for some funding, and have their fees reduced for certain period of time or something.

    Is the figure of $35 mill correct to build all if it? Scott, can you share some light on that

    oh and Scott52, finally put the face to the username

    I know I am dreaming but it may attract MotoGP to come to Perth on top of PI round?
    We're close to completing the concept design for a 3km x 12m. We'll be putting a detailed estimate together. The $35M was number plucked out of the air. The most expensive thing will be the asphalt race circuit. The other tracks like motocross, enduro, mountain bikes are cheap to construct.

    Even the jet boat circuit is easy and cheap. A 300mm deep channel with clay lining is all that's needed. That's the total depth jet boats use. Part of that is for safety so competitors don't drown when they roll over.

    The plan is for the pavement track to be designed with efficient use of capital which we think we can do well. You don't build large permanent stands that will be used a couple of times per year. You set up hold down points for prefab move in move out stands when they're needed.

    We have experienced construction engineers working on this. I know the pavement construction will around $3.5M to $4.0. Throw in all the infrastructure, tilt slab pit bays. Parking, hard standing and prefabricated buildings the total will be a lot more.

    It's best to wait until next month once we have a total estimate. I can see the cost of substantial renovations to Barbagallo being expensive as it's detailed fiddly work. It maybe a similar cost to building something new over the road using smart capital management.
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