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Thread: 2017 MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3 discussion (spoilers)

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    So.... if Dani is struggling with a "lack of weight" and having trouble getting the tyres up to temp, cant they simply add a few kilos[ depleted uranium ] so the tyres work a bit harder?
    If you're 10 kilos down on other riders, surely some carefully placed bars of whatever can be screwed on the chassis/swingarm even? might help.
    At this rate I'm not sure why he bothers going out sometimes.

    Simplistic I know but they gotta start thinking leftfield here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidf View Post
    So.... if Dani is struggling with a "lack of weight" and having trouble getting the tyres up to temp, cant they simply add a few kilos[ depleted uranium ] so the tyres work a bit harder?
    If you're 10 kilos down on other riders, surely some carefully placed bars of whatever can be screwed on the chassis/swingarm even? might help.
    At this rate I'm not sure why he bothers going out sometimes.

    Simplistic I know but they gotta start thinking leftfield here.
    I think I read they were thinking about doing it(?) but my thoughts are then the bike is heavier and he doesn't have the weight to help throw it into and out of corners as it is. Dani probably weighs about the same as me and I notice the difference between a thou vs a 6. (edit: he weighs less - he's 51kg!)
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    2017 MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3 discussion (spoilers)

    Surely an aero package would be a good start

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Surely an aero package would be a good start
    Why Dani Pedrosa doesn't use winglets

    http://pecinogp.com/nakamoto-reveals...ogps-winglets/
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    Can of concrete Red Bull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Dealer View Post
    Why Dani Pedrosa doesn't use winglets
    Thatís the extreme end.

    You donít have to go balls deep and give him something so demanding he needs to be lifted from the bike at the end.

    But if you can produce a couple of KGs of downforce (I donít know what the figure would be), it could make all the difference in heat generation.

    Do the bikes have to be within a spec weight?
    Maybe thatís why the donít or canít strap weights to it?

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    It's not as simple as. Along a few extra kg of downforce.
    At what speed do you want the extra pressure? what pitch/yaw do you want it to come into effect?

    In terms of aero efficiency as well, it needs to be enough downforce and performance gain to warrant having the additional drag, of which both factors are on an exponential curve in relation to velocity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    It's not as simple as. Along a few extra kg of downforce.
    At what speed do you want the extra pressure? what pitch/yaw do you want it to come into effect?

    In terms of aero efficiency as well, it needs to be enough downforce and performance gain to warrant having the additional drag, of which both factors are on an exponential curve in relation to velocity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    It's not as simple as. Along a few extra kg of downforce.
    At what speed do you want the extra pressure? what pitch/yaw do you want it to come into effect?

    In terms of aero efficiency as well, it needs to be enough downforce and performance gain to warrant having the additional drag, of which both factors are on an exponential curve in relation to velocity.


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    I dunno.
    I think it is that simple.

    They just have to add enough downforce for sufficient time to deform the carcass and put the much needed heat in the tyre.
    That's all they need to do - and if their engineers can't work that out - that's a problem.
    It's not to keep the front wheel down.
    It's not for stability in the corner.
    It's not required for the whole lap.
    It's for the little fella to heat the tyres a little bit.

    I think the aero required to generate the few KGs Dani needs would be subtle.

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    There's nothing simple about aero, especially on a bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmo View Post
    Why be a cunt about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I dunno.
    I think it is that simple.

    They just have to add enough downforce for sufficient time to deform the carcass and put the much needed heat in the tyre.
    That's all they need to do - and if their engineers can't work that out - that's a problem.
    It's not to keep the front wheel down.
    It's not for stability in the corner.
    It's not required for the whole lap.
    It's for the little fella to heat the tyres a little bit.

    I think the aero required to generate the few KGs Dani needs would be subtle.
    But is the downforce level needed provide enough of a performance advantage to negate the aero drag and improve his lap time.

    You also forget a key fundamental. The faster something goes, the more drag it presents and the more power that is required to move said object.

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
    There's nothing simple about aero, especially on a bike.
    This^^^




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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Thatís the extreme end.

    You donít have to go balls deep and give him something so demanding he needs to be lifted from the bike at the end.

    But if you can produce a couple of KGs of downforce (I donít know what the figure would be), it could make all the difference in heat generation.

    Do the bikes have to be within a spec weight?
    Maybe thatís why the donít or canít strap weights to it?
    Do you not think HRC, a team who has been in the championship for decades and spends $60million/year just running the team has thought of that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    But is the downforce level needed provide enough of a performance advantage to negate the aero drag and improve his lap time.

    You also forget a key fundamental. The faster something goes, the more drag it presents and the more power that is required to move said object.
    I'm not forgetting anything.

    Just as there is no 'cold' - just a lack of heat, he wouldn't be going faster, just less slower
    Yes, that means faster, but not on the otherside of 'normal' that would introduce the extra drag you're talking about.
    Sure - aero will slow him down, but less slow than having no grip.


    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Dealer View Post
    Do you not think HRC, a team who has been in the championship for decades and spends $60million/year just running the team has thought of that?
    I'm just responding to you providing an extreme application of aero to go fast.
    You saying it can't be done to meet a different goal (generate heat rather than speed)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
    There's nothing simple about aero, especially on a bike.
    I never said it was easy.
    It looks like plenty of the teams are using aero as a solution to keeping the front wheel down, or improve corner grip.
    Surely they can dial it back a bit to generate less downforce than those applications - to generate a bit of heat in a tyre for a kid that's 50kg wringing wet.

    From what I'm reading, Dani isn't strong enough to handle a FULL aero package.
    So don't give him one.

    Not rocket surgery.

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    There's some races where his lightweight helps him, some where his weight doesn't. Honda may be happy for their second rider to struggle occasionally to get heat into his tyres as long as it doesn't effect their number one rider.

    It's still only two years into Michelins control tyre that does seem to keep changing and maybe they just don't have enough data to figure out the best plan of attack for his problem. Maybe just adding weight to the Danis RCV also makes his data different to Cal and Marc's and makes it useless to them.

    Edit to add: with the new Aero change rules in place they would probably use their change just to make Pedrosa competitive on the off weekend when he can't generate heat into the tyres. It would be the same for every year I'm pretty sure.
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    Just read that Bradley Smith signed to KTM for $1m/year. Iannone signed with Suzuki for $1.2m.

    Vinales signed to Yamaha for $1.5m (Bargain)... No wonder KTM want to boot Smith.

    Dovizioso signed for $2.5m, whilst Lorenzo earns $12m. I hope Dovi asks for pay rise for 2018. Though I'm sure the podium bonuses topped up his account nicely.

    Edit: corrected Lorenzo's salary.
    Last edited by Speed Dealer; 14-09-2017 at 07:01 PM.

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    Did it mention Rossi/Marquez/Pedrosa?

    Smith got a hell of a deal there.

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    How does smith get paid so much for doing so little, year after year. How the fuck does he even still have a ride at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prefectionist View Post
    Did it mention Rossi/Marquez/Pedrosa?

    Smith got a hell of a deal there.
    Rossi and Marquez equal on $10milion/year with Rossi's earnings $30m/year through personal sponsorships. Pedrosa earns 1/3rd of what he did in 2013 now earning $2.5m/season. A pay cut of $5m.

    Jack Miller was paid $350k this season.

    These are all speculated salaries and different websites post slightly differing figures but they're all similar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Dealer View Post
    Rossi and Marquez equal on $10milion/year with Rossi's earnings $30m/year through personal sponsorships. Pedrosa earns 1/3rd of what he did in 2013 now earning $2.5m/season. A pay cut of $5m.

    Jack Miller was paid $350k this season.

    These are all speculated salaries and different websites post slightly differing figures but they're all similar.
    Is there a TAFE course or something? I could use that sort of salary....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Dealer View Post
    Just read that Bradley Smith signed to KTM for $1.5m/year. Iannone signed with Suzuki for $1.2m.

    Vinales signed to Yamaha for $1.5m (Bargain)... No wonder KTM want to boot Smith.

    Dovizioso signed for $2.5m, whilst Lorenzo earns $12m. I hope Dovi asks for pay rise for 2018. Though I'm sure the podium bonuses topped up his account nicely.

    Edit: corrected Lorenzo's salary.
    I can't believe KTM paid Smith(or Pol) that much. They must be kicking themselves now watching what the two rookies are achieving on the same bikes.

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