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Thread: The Insurance Thread

  1. #41
    Member rubin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillia View Post
    does anybody knows any companies that insure moped riders <16 years of age? mate at work is finding it difficult to get for his son...Any brokers around?
    No one will because he won't have a license if he's under 16.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    No one will because he won't have a license if he's under 16.


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    17 innit?


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  3. #43
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    No, that's the point...he has a learners permit. The lad is.trying to do the right thing and insure his ride.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillia View Post
    No, that's the point...he has a learners permit. The lad is.trying to do the right thing and insure his ride.
    The 15yr old can't, and I'd be surprised if it is registered in his name as well.

    His old man can, and will provide coverage for Learner use (following all other conditions of a Learner license), but as he is not old enough to drive/ride legally, he can't insure it in his name.

    When he gets his license, he will be able to.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    No one will because he won't have a license if he's under 16.
    http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licen...-r-n-class.asp
    You can apply for your moped learners at 15 and a half.

    Pretty poor effort on the part of insurance companies as a collective if they won't insure someone that is legally allowed to use the road, provided they follow the conditions that apply to them.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauer View Post
    http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licen...-r-n-class.asp
    You can apply for your moped learners at 15 and a half.

    Pretty poor effort on the part of insurance companies as a collective if they won't insure someone that is legally allowed to use the road, provided they follow the conditions that apply to them.
    apologies, I should have explained in further detail.

    You can apply for a moped license from 15.5 (i.e learners), however cannot have a legal road going license until 16 as a minimum (P's). Same as a car or RE, you can apply from 16, but can't get until your 17.

    You won't be able to insure a vehicle in the name of a person who cannot legally hold a license due to age. It's not a case of not wanting to, its a case of legality. If your not old enough to ride/drive it in your own right legally, why are we asking you to pay a premium and offering coverage? This actually goes back to a case in the House of Lords some 40yrs ago, where insurers were barred from offering coverage for a circumstance in which they cannot legally cover.

    As I mentioned, I would also be highly surprised if the Moped was registered in the 15yr olds name as well.

    Insure it in his dads name, and then, once you get the licence, tell the Insurer he will be riding it - or, cancel it and get a new policy.

    Keep in mind, it will be expensive.

  7. #47
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    But isn't a learners permit a "legal road going license" issued by a government department?
    As the learner of a moped is the only person in control of the vehicle, and provided the conditions of the license are met, the learner is then able to use that license and legally take to the road on that moped.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauer View Post
    But isn't a learners permit a "legal road going license" issued by a government department?
    As the learner of a moped is the only person in control of the vehicle, and provided the conditions of the license are met, the learner is then able to use that license and legally take to the road on that moped.
    I'm not a lawyer, but I would say not. If you are riding on your L's without a supervisor, you are now deemed to be riding without a license.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubin View Post
    I'm not a lawyer, but I would say not. If you are riding on your L's without a supervisor, you are now deemed to be riding without a license.
    That's why I said "provided the conditions of the license are met"...
    The condition being, the learner be shadowed by an appropriately licensed rider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauer View Post
    That's why I said "provided the conditions of the license are met"...
    The condition being, the learner be shadowed by an appropriately licensed rider.
    In my mind, the definitions make it clear:

    Learners Permit
    A Permit allowing you to operate a vehicle within the terms and conditions specified.

    Provisional/Drivers License
    A License giving you legal permission to operate a vehicle defined.

    all of the literature states that a Learners Permit is a step in obtaining your WA Drivers license, i.e:
    "There are various steps involved in getting a Western Australian (WA) driver's licence, the first being to obtain a Learners Permit"

  11. #51
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    Yeah. So if the government permits a learner to ride a vehicle on the road, shouldn't that be sufficient for that person to gain insurance for themselves, and anyone else's property or person they may accidentally damage while learning?

    Either or, I'm not being deliberately belligerent and I appreciate the time you take to provide insight into the insurance industry.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauer View Post
    Yeah. So if the government permits a learner to ride a vehicle on the road, shouldn't that be sufficient for that person to gain insurance for themselves, and anyone else's property or person they may accidentally damage while learning?

    Either or, I'm not being deliberately belligerent and I appreciate the time you take to provide insight into the insurance industry.
    this is a cakewalk compared to one guy I had to deal with today.

    Some very quick research shows that you need to be old enough to obtain a license to be able to register a vehicle, therefor a 15yr old would not be the registered owner of a registered vehicle. This then points to a basic insurance principal defined as Insurable Interest.

    Insurable interest is a basic requirement for the issuance of an insurance policy, making it legal and valid and protecting against intentionally harmful acts. Entities not subject to financial loss from an event do not have an insurable interest and cannot purchase an insurance policy to cover that event.

    Whilst practically he may own the vehicle, from a legal standpoint, he has no insurable interest in the vehicle (despite riding it). Note this principal also applies to more than just vehicles, it applies to pretty much any form of insurance.

    Insurers are no longer able to provide a policy and/or collect premiums for something in which there is no insurable interest of the policy holder, i.e providing a policy in which the policy holder is never going to be able to make a claim on.

  13. #53
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    Thanks rubin. That explains it.
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  14. #54
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    When we got the scooter for our daughter we had to licence it in our name as she was not 16.
    To insure it, we put it in our name and made her a designated rider.

    When the scooter got stolen, the insurance company paid out and we got her another.

    To insure her, the cost and excess were more than the cost of the scooter.
    To insure us and have her as a designated rider was less than a quarter of the cost.

    Needless to say we own the scooter and she borrows it as per the insurance agreement.
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    thanks for the answers and debate while I've been sleeping all day!

  16. #56
    Member Not-So-Rad's Avatar
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    Luckyyyy I'm not with AAMI...

    I'm in the market shopping around right now... nothing particularly special about me that I would need their Lamborghini coverage. All the other companies have been close to the $1500/yr premium. I thought that this quote was funny enough to share though! MY2012 MV Agusta F4R.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Not-So-Rad View Post
    I thought that this quote was funny enough to share though! MY2012 MV Agusta F4R.

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    So for those premiums, every 3 years you could have bought another $16,170 bike.
    What You See

    Isn't always what you get
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    It will be down to your age, the bike and previous driving history.

    I have found with all insurance when you get a renewal notice, fill out a new quote online it will be cheaper then the renewal notice.
    "Some people are like clouds. When they disappear it's a beautiful day"

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    Member Not-So-Rad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halo_2 View Post
    It will be down to your age, the bike and previous driving history.

    I have found with all insurance when you get a renewal notice, fill out a new quote online it will be cheaper then the renewal notice.
    You would think so... but 28 had bike license for 10 years, 1 crash (100% not at fault) T boned a p plater moron more than 5 years ago, his insurance paid in full. Otherwise spotless record. I even have 90% of my points back on my license (never had a ticket on the bike either). Bike is garaged in a fortress right next to my firearms... it has a ridiculous amount of security on it. Scorpio alarm, alarmed disc lock, normal disc lock, alarmed cover, front brake lock, gps lowjack.

    That kind of premium is unwarranted.

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