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Thread: Fast Food 457 worker ban

  1. #81
    Member Halo_2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprint View Post
    I trust there's at least a portable/auto defibrillator available, and someone who's recently trained/refresher.

    S.
    Nope
    "Some people are like clouds. When they disappear it's a beautiful day"

  2. #82
    Member stromrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Shabadoo View Post
    lol.. 3 degrees in and i keep going back
    seems to be working well
    I should clarify my original statement. Higher education certainly has value... 2 degrees and a grad cert and considering the next study option.

    I just think it is a rort in that, for a lot of people, higher education has become a regulation third period of schooling and there are some higher education providers who only are interested for the money and will underdeliver on the service that they sell. Furthermore, it shouldn't be possible to get into university by barely getting through school but it is.
    Last edited by stromrider; 09-03-2017 at 09:20 PM.
    If you keep trying to explain it with logic and facts you will possibly end up hurting your sanity.
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  3. #83
    Member sprung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potato View Post
    well, i tried again getting a young person in to learn this trade

    they were keen and enthusiastic for a couple of weeks, then started getting later and later and hiding from me buzy texting on their phone

    i kept the hours flexible letting them go home early, spotting lunch and not being a slave driver.

    their nail in the coffin was deciding that after 3 weeks and despite my 30 years in the trade they knew better

    bye bye
    Well y'see, you and all the others bitching about the quality of workers you get don't seem to realise that you may be to blame because of your selection criteria.

    For example, for 2 years I have been picked for seasonal work after the interviews with CBH for the grain receivals, every year at the induction the area manager tell stories about how many young girls he has had to fire the year before because they were always on their phone and neglecting the job, and how each year the truck drivers have to do more of the work like opening tail gates than the year before because some young inexperienced person crushes a hand doing it and how so many people stuff up and put the wrong grain type down the wrong shute.

    Then when it comes to being actually assigned to a site I miss out because the site managers are middle aged males who then pick mainly the young female applicants.
    Experienced middle aged men who have worked in a multitude of different industries, who have great safety records, pay great attention to detail and have a good work ethic miss out.
    Year after year they hire the same demographic and year after year they bitch about the same problems with their workforce.

  4. #84
    Member sprung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubs View Post
    you will generally find most small businesses want more from employees now than a few years ago.

    it used to be that a welder would weld day in and day out.
    now they need to weld, drive a forklift, have working with heights, white card, confined spaces and other registrations or tickets.
    they also need to have great communication and possibly computer skills.

    industries have moved forward whereas not a whole lot of employees have and therefore these employees are deemed unsuitable.
    SCENARIO
    many employers say things like I cant find anyone to do the job
    yeh but you had 30 applications
    yeh but they were all shit
    why
    because most are ex resources and cant work a full day or have forgotten their skills
    how so?
    well in the resources sector they get so used to having back fill for tasks they forget how to work at a high and consistent level - as is needed in a non resource role. Their attitude is Oh we'll get to it again tomorrow or night shift will do it.
    In metro there is no other shift to do the work and if you are charging a client you have to account for all your time in blocks ie 15 minutes at a time.
    The other side is skill loss.
    If an aircon guy works on site he may just install and rip out and throw away units rather than repair them. He does this for 1,2, 3+ years and forgets the basics of working to a schedule in metro or the basic repair and maintenance skills he used to have and still needs to be successful in gaining a job in metro.

    Dubs
    Yes and no.

    I have seen the type of ex-resources worker you describe and it's a shame nearly every employer now stereotypes them like that.

    Back in the day you didn't need a lot of "tickets", you learnt that bit of the job in a day or two and did it. eg, Working at heights, it's a joke that it has to be refreshed every 2 years by some ex-firie telling you how to put on a harness and how to use the escape gear. When I was broadcast engineer in the 80's I went up towers and masts with linesmen, they taught me the safety stuff, climbing and working at heights techniques and how to use the gear, I didn't need a ticket as well. I drove forklifts in warehouses in my teens during school holiday work, just needed to get ticked off as competent. Needing "tickets" has generated another whole money grubbing training industry.

    When I worked in oil and gas it was 12 hour days, or more, sometimes struggling even to get a lunch break, and if that's not a full day, what is? I was in a team of 3 usually without another other shift as backup, except in the times where 24 hour coverage was needed. In the 12 hour coverage times we didn't knock off until the job for the day was done, unless we were stopped by the regulations forbidding more than 16 hour days and even then pressure would be brought to bear to keep going, my longest shift ever was 52 hours without sleep. One of our unwritten rules during the 24 hour coverage times was not to leave repair or maintenance jobs unfinished before the next shift turned up and if that wasn't achievable then we'd stay back to make sure it all got done as quickly as possible. This job required acquiring and becoming proficient a multitude of new skills above and beyond what you brought with you, everything from video commentary, maintenance planning, computer literacy for report writing with Word, Excell or whatever system they wanted, fibre optic jointing, cable splicing, maintaining hydraulic, high voltage electrical, electronic and mechanical robotic systems, as well as needing to be able to operate that machinery.

    Your multitude of tickets/skills description can be a real piss-take and some I find amazing. I've seen a labourers job advertised for $22 per hour where the tickets required were forklift, skid steer, front end loader, HR licence, EWP, First Aid, Advanced Rigging, enclosed space, gas testing, and working at heights. But I suppose it's a sign of the times, there's lots of desperate people looking for work in WA.

    Having an excess of labour shows up in other ways too, for instance Qantas ground staff have to pay $350 for their work medical as part of the selection process and then if they get the job they have to pay another $200 for their ID cards. And this is to get a $19.60/hr, 20 hr/week job with 24 hr/day rotating shifts.
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  5. #85
    Member Stephan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprung View Post
    Well y'see, you and all the others bitching about the quality of workers you get don't seem to realise that you may be to blame because of your selection criteria.

    For example, for 2 years I have been picked for seasonal work after the interviews with CBH for the grain receivals, every year at the induction the area manager tell stories about how many young girls he has had to fire the year before because they were always on their phone and neglecting the job, and how each year the truck drivers have to do more of the work like opening tail gates than the year before because some young inexperienced person crushes a hand doing it and how so many people stuff up and put the wrong grain type down the wrong shute.

    Then when it comes to being actually assigned to a site I miss out because the site managers are middle aged males who then pick mainly the young female applicants.
    Experienced middle aged men who have worked in a multitude of different industries, who have great safety records, pay great attention to detail and have a good work ethic miss out.
    Year after year they hire the same demographic and year after year they bitch about the same problems with their workforce.
    I can assure you, potato has given every demographic a chance, young, old, addict, male, female...they all seem to leave because it's all too hard...
    SP RACINGis supported by:
    MSC Safe Co.com.au S&K Mineservices.com.au
    Motorcycle Panel and Paint.com.au Metroframing.com.au
    Jaguarsteelfabrications.com.au DiLena.com.au
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by datsikk View Post
    Worse still...such people can't find low end work as they are "over qualified" and will "p$ss off as soon as they find suitable employment".

    Heard it straight from our HR lady.
    I've been told I'm over qualified 16 times in the last week, it's starting to get depressing...
    Keep up to date! - https://www.emergency.wa.gov.au/
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
    I can assure you, potato has given every demographic a chance, young, old, addict, male, female...they all seem to leave because it's all too hard...
    So according to you Potato's selection criteria is perfect and because he's applied it to all demographics there is absolutely no one that can do it? What I'm saying is there's no use whinging about the people you select for a job unless you take a good long hard look at how you are selecting them. If your selection process fails then is it the fault of the person you have selected or the the fault of the process? I wasn't just referring to him either, I was just being one of those useless lazy Australian workers and not doing multiple quotes of the people hiring for bars and for the farmers that prefer back packers.

    I have farmland leased out, the person driving the seeder last year was early twenties, blonde very attractive female backpacker. Half the acreage was bare, the seeder blocked but she kept going. Did the outside before the inside rows, went the wrong way round paddocks and drove over already seeded bits to then turn around and get out of the paddock. A lot had to be re-seeded. She'll be back next year. Not a chance in hell will they get some middle aged bloke that will do it properly to replace her.

    From my recent experiences jobs are filled from recommendations or other contacts with people you know, like mate's dad in the office, who you're rootin', etc, not on ability.
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  8. #88
    PSB Corporate Sponsor PREMIUM potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprung View Post
    Well y'see, you and all the others bitching about the quality of workers you get don't seem to realise that you may be to blame because of your selection criteria.

    For example, for 2 years I have been picked for seasonal work after the interviews with CBH for the grain receivals, every year at the induction the area manager tell stories about how many young girls he has had to fire the year before because they were always on their phone and neglecting the job, and how each year the truck drivers have to do more of the work like opening tail gates than the year before because some young inexperienced person crushes a hand doing it and how so many people stuff up and put the wrong grain type down the wrong shute.

    Then when it comes to being actually assigned to a site I miss out because the site managers are middle aged males who then pick mainly the young female applicants.
    Experienced middle aged men who have worked in a multitude of different industries, who have great safety records, pay great attention to detail and have a good work ethic miss out.
    Year after year they hire the same demographic and year after year they bitch about the same problems with their workforce.
    sounds like you have the middle aged man employee mentality ,go own and run your own business

    then come back in 5 years and read your own comments

    i tried a couple of your genre' it got too hot for them summer is 45c in the shop

    there's a 45 yr old male doing some casual atmo

    see how we go


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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by potato View Post
    sounds like you have the middle aged man employee mentality ,go own and run your own business

    then come back in 5 years and read your own comments

    i tried a couple of your genre' it got too hot for them summer is 45c in the shop

    there's a 45 yr old male doing some casual atmo

    see how we go
    Who would want to sniff paint or suck in dust all day long?
    Most painters are a little "glitchy" because of it right?

    Wash your hands in Thinners much?

    (In b4 the "GetFuckedGippo" I was a TA for an Industrial painter for 2yrs in my junior life)
    Its all good on Ducati's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gippo View Post
    Who would want to sniff paint or suck in dust all day long?
    Most painters are a little "glitchy" because of it right?

    Wash your hands in Thinners much?

    (In b4 the "GetFuckedGippo" I was a TA for an Industrial painter for 2yrs in my junior life)
    glitchy lots lol

    dunno if being a mechanic and having grease stained hands would be any better or a sparky stuck in a roof cavity in summer, one of my mates does that


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  11. #91
    PSB Statesman Dubs's Avatar
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    I have SOOOOO many examples I can give you sprung but cant due to privacy.

    since an example here is motor vehicle repair, here are some comments in the public domain regarding panelbeaters and then vehicle painters both from November 2015 - summarised from employers comments about trying to recruit:

    All surveyed employers advertised vacancies for trade qualified Panelbeaters; however 50 per cent
    of the qualified applicants were rated as unsuitable by employers.
    Unsuitable applicants
    • The most common reasons employers gave were a lack of experience, and/or experience working
    on specific types of cars, or a poor attitude towards work.
    • Some applicants were rated by employers as unsuitable because a position required additional
    skills, such as customer service skills and computer literacy for issuing invoices or preparing quotes
    on-line.
    • A few applicants had unrealistic expectations about hourly wages, or were not prepared to work on
    a contract basis with wages paid on a percentage of output rather than being paid an hourly rate.



    Some employers stated they would have also considered offering employment to a non-trade
    qualified applicant who could demonstrate high level skills and the ability to work efficiently and
    effectively.
    • Some employers stated the completion of a trade certificate provided greater opportunity for
    exposure to a variety of vehicle painting work using different processes, products and materials.
    • Most employers were seeking experienced applicants who could work with limited, or no
    supervision, to complete spray painting jobs on a variety of vehicles including 4WDs and trucks.
    Unsuitable applicants
    • Around 58 per cent of applicants were deemed unsuitable by employers.
    • Reasons for unsuitability included poor interview skills and workplace attitudes.
    • Employers stated some applicants had unrealistic wage expectations for roles offered.


    Dubs

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    Member chew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubs View Post
    • A few applicants had unrealistic expectations about hourly wages, or were not prepared to work on
    a contract basis with wages paid on a percentage of output rather than being paid an hourly rate.
    • Employers stated some applicants had unrealistic wage expectations for roles offered.Dubs
    That would be right, small business, pay the workers nothing while the boss sits around all day and they get a big bucket of cash each week.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits
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    Quote Originally Posted by chew View Post
    That would be right, small business, pay the workers nothing while the boss sits around all day and they get a big bucket of cash each week.
    i wish jelly fish


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    Quote Originally Posted by potato View Post
    i wish jelly fish
    Only half a bucket this week eh?

    Have to wait till next week to change the rear tyres on the Ferrari?

    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits
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    Quote Originally Posted by chew View Post
    Only half a bucket this week eh?

    Have to wait till next week to change the rear tyres on the Ferrari?

    did you drive past and spot it ?


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    So how do you fix the no experience problem then? From what Dubs posted that seems to be the biggest issue with regards to his specific example, is this a more common trend?

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    PSB Statesman Dubs's Avatar
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    In talking with employers a lot will be flexible on experience if they get someone to rock up to the job - consistently or if they have the soft skills that can add value to the business or the role and if they are willing to learn without being negative and know-it-all

    Dubs
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    Dubs

    hit the nail on the head


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  19. #99
    Member Joe Shabadoo's Avatar
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    you lookin for someone potato? i'd do it just to learn how to paint shit good
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    Quote Originally Posted by moshriff View Post
    So how do you fix the no experience problem then? From what Dubs posted that seems to be the biggest issue with regards to his specific example, is this a more common trend?
    i started a spray painting apprenticeship at 18 after doing half of year 12, i had a good hard look at law [my dad r.i.p was a solicitor]

    got my head down,had very few days off in the 4 years and the time went quickly.

    and enjoyed making things.

    there's too many distractions these days and people dont seem to knuckle down

    there's not enough looking long term and thinking were will i be in 3-4 years if i do this.

    its a now generation,people want the skills to earn the money now,not in 3 or 4 years

    ive had a few spend a week or two here ,get smug,and think they have got it

    and im the one fixing the stuff up at 8pm at night because the job belongs to someone and they would like it back !


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