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Thread: WASCC plan for bikes at barbs

  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAZL View Post
    They are "working with us" as they are under duress to retain control of the track.

    If the lease is renewed and they retain control of the track why would they function any differently than the past 50 years.

    This is as stated in the 7 April 2017 letter to MWA and MA.
    Where in the 7 April letter does it "state " the above.

    If you are going to claim a statement or quote, ensure it is as stated and not a matter of your opininion or interpretation

    76 T
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydey View Post
    Are you able to substantiate this claim?
    Yes, I have a copy from ASIC.

    Having problems uploading. Any other suggested wsy to post it?

    76 T

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    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    Yes, I have a copy from ASIC.

    Having problems uploading. Any other suggested wsy to post it?

    76 T
    If it's an electronic copy provide a link to where you got it from...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich... View Post
    If it's an electronic copy provide a link to where you got it from...
    Thanks.

    It is a down loaded copy of 37 pages. You have to pay to access.

    I have a screen shot of the relevant page.

    Why can't I upload via PSB utility?

    76 T

  5. #525
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    Save the screen shot in a photo sharing site, I use smug mug but there are a few, then copy the link and put it into "Insert Link" icon above the reply box.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    Where in the 7 April letter does it "state " the above.

    If you are going to claim a statement or quote, ensure it is as stated and not a matter of your opininion or interpretation

    76 T
    I wasn't quoting the April 7 letter. My only quote of the April 7 letter is:

    “However, WASCC is under no obligation to implement structural works which are only required for motorcycling activities: WASCC must always weigh the costs and benefits of undertaking such works, against the costs and benefits to its members.”

    I'll correct my grammar and explain what seemed obvious:

    They are appearing to be 'working with us' as they are under duress to retain control of the track.

    That is an evidence based opinion.

    Its a trap! They've clearly stated they have no obligation to do anything to the benefit of motorcyclists.

    So constitutionally they are categorising "motorsport" (that's a quote) as an obligation to 4 wheel vehicles, excluding 2 and 3 wheelers.

    History has shown they have modified the track to the benefit of cars and to the detriment of bikes.

    They are now appearing to be 'working with us' as they are facing lease renewal and want to extend the track on a further land grant to the north.

    Not appearing to be 'working with us' jeopardises this aim, as evidenced by the scrutiny now being applied by DSR and more recently, the Department of Commerce. Regardless of the merit of why this has happened, the scrutiny is there.

    As a consequence, my attending the car club meeting would only support their aim of appearing to be 'working with us'.

    In my opinion, any motorcyclist cooperating with the WASCC is naively achieving that aim.

    The phrase "useful idiot" springs to mind.
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  7. #527
    Member Tim the PM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAZL View Post
    I wasn't quoting the April 7 letter. My only quote of the April 7 letter is:

    “However, WASCC is under no obligation to implement structural works which are only required for motorcycling activities: WASCC must always weigh the costs and benefits of undertaking such works, against the costs and benefits to its members.”

    I'll correct my grammar and explain what seemed obvious:

    They are appearing to be 'working with us' as they are under duress to retain control of the track.

    That is an evidence based opinion.

    Its a trap! They've clearly stated they have no obligation to do anything to the benefit of motorcyclists.

    So constitutionally they are categorising "motorsport" (that's a quote) as an obligation to 4 wheel vehicles, excluding 2 and 3 wheelers.

    History has shown they have modified the track to the benefit of cars and to the detriment of bikes.

    They are now appearing to be 'working with us' as they are facing lease renewal and want to extend the track on a further land grant to the north.

    Not appearing to be 'working with us' jeopardises this aim, as evidenced by the scrutiny now being applied by DSR and more recently, the Department of Commerce. Regardless of the merit of why this has happened, the scrutiny is there.

    As a consequence, my attending the car club meeting would only support their aim of appearing to be 'working with us'.

    In my opinion, any motorcyclist cooperating with the WASCC is naively achieving that aim.

    The phrase "useful idiot" springs to mind.
    All I will say to that is the motorcycling community are very lucky that it appears to be only a TINY minority with your negative, obstructionist views. Unfortunately they all seem to be on PSB :/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    Thanks.

    It is a down loaded copy of 37 pages. You have to pay to access.

    I have a screen shot of the relevant page.

    Why can't I upload via PSB utility?

    76 T
    I wouldn't advise uploading a screenshot of a document you had to pay to access. I'd put money on someone reporting it... Safer to post the link to where it came from.
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  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    All I will say to that is the motorcycling community are very lucky that it appears to be only a TINY minority with your negative, obstructionist views. Unfortunately they all seem to be on PSB :/

    - - - Updated - - -





    I wouldn't advise uploading a screenshot of a document you had to pay to access. I'd put money on someone reporting it... Safer to post the link to where it came from.
    Lol funniest post in this thread thanks

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    So post the link...

    Or back up your evidence Tim the PM...

    I asked you to provide a link to source earlier but you chose to over look that...

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich... View Post
    So post the link...

    Or back up your evidence Tim the PM...

    I asked you to provide a link to source earlier but you chose to over look that...
    I think I said "I read that..."

    I guess that is hearsay, and I don't even remember where I read it. Probably on the old WASCC page which was deleted during the fiasco.

    Feel free to discount it as unproven. The point (badly made I admit) remains though. The WASCC does not have to make a net profit for shareholders, or pay directors fees. Those are additional costs of a "company" which would either be passed on to users, or come out of the budget for maintenance etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    All I will say to that is the motorcycling community are very lucky that it appears to be only a TINY minority with your negative, obstructionist views. Unfortunately they all seem to be on PSB :/
    Obstructionist? Que?

    The only group I see as obstructing the future for all motorsport in WA, including motorcyclists, is a car club.

    If you want positive and I've posted on this many times, how about follow the very successful model used in the Northern Territory. You in particular seem to not want to comment positively on working toward a similar model for WA. If you've forgotten Motorsports NT exists, let me remind you.

    It is a largely Government funded organisation Whose 17 members are clubs that each have a single vote and represent over 10,000 MOTORSPORT members.

    Whose constitution has a dispute resolution process not only between members, but for member disputes with the board, using an independent Govt appointed mediator.

    Whose benefits include an estimated $60,000,000 per year delivered into the NT economy through its activities.

    Whose events attract 170,000 spectators per year.

    You want more? Google is your friend. "Motorsports NT"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    Feel free to discount it as unproven. The point (badly made I admit) remains though. The WASCC does not have to make a net profit for shareholders, or pay directors fees. Those are additional costs of a "company" which would either be passed on to users, or come out of the budget for maintenance etc.
    You are using an extreme example to push your point. That is, a public company set up for profit to manage the racetrack with a view to maximise profit and provide monetary benefits to its shareholders.

    What we have at the moment is a club set up to benefit its members. With little apparent will to be transparent or inclusive, which is fine. See the parallel?

    What I think the Gubmint is looking for is a non-profit company of interested parties so it has some input into the organisation and they are accountable. This would mean that the people working for "Rev Heads WA" would be paid for their efforts and any profit over and above running costs are re-invested into motor sport. All the while being transparent and open for scrutiny on decisions made.

    This would allow the Gubmint to commit funds without exposing itself to cries of corruption. Look at other boards or companies set up as non-profit to provide a service or support structure for the public good. They have government controls placed on them and are audited.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAZL View Post
    Obstructionist? Que?

    The only group I see as obstructing the future for all motorsport in WA, including motorcyclists, is a car club.

    If you want positive and I've posted on this many times, how about follow the very successful model used in the Northern Territory. You in particular seem to not want to comment positively on working toward a similar model for WA. If you've forgotten Motorsports NT exists, let me remind you.

    It is a largely Government funded organisation Whose 17 members are clubs that each have a single vote and represent over 10,000 MOTORSPORT members.

    Whose constitution has a dispute resolution process not only between members, but for member disputes with the board, using an independent Govt appointed mediator.

    Whose benefits include an estimated $60,000,000 per year delivered into the NT economy through its activities.

    Whose events attract 170,000 spectators per year.

    You want more? Google is your friend. "Motorsports NT"
    Hopefully this is the way forward for Motorsport in WA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    All I will say to that is the motorcycling community are very lucky that it appears to be only a TINY minority with your negative, obstructionist views. Unfortunately they all seem to be on PSB :/

    - - - Updated - - -



    .
    Hey Tim the PM Do you think we should run a poll to see just how tiny the minority is that think WASCC will get the track sorted for bikes ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    Hey Tim the PM Do you think we should run a poll to see just how tiny the minority is that think WASCC will get the track sorted for bikes ?
    Maybe we should do a similar one for MA/MWA

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    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    Maybe we should do a similar one for MA/MWA
    Why ? MA/MWA are just a governing body ( and have been as much use as a chocolate teapot in this issue)

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    Funny thing about the MA/MWA thing...

    From a quick bit of research I did, not though I didn't have the time...

    I looks like they threw their hat in with the MSWA group and were supportive of them...

    So there could be a bit of political bullshit going on there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    The WASCC does not have to make a net profit for shareholders, or pay directors fees.
    All very true but it also doesn't have to do anything for motorcycles because it is a CAR CLUB.
    It hasn't spent any money on resurfacing or changing sand to gravel, it's profits go into more garages and car related benefits(as one would expect from a CAR CLUB ) and the fees have gone up more and more for motorcycle users($55k for MCRCWA to host the ASBK)...they have made it so costly that the most profitable road racing club in WA don't even consider it an option anymore.

    I can't actually fathom how or why anyone could believe that they have our long-term interests at heart. Sure MA and MWA have not shown any real leadership on the matter, which is very disappointing, but there is no way that you will convince me(without actual action and outlay from WASCC) that they will ever do anything to protect riders or cater to bikes while they have a lease...now leading up to a lease re-signing they appear to give a fuck but still no actual plan to implement the recommendations of the Hall report which would then clear the track for bikes.

    I do not understand the absolute resistance from 2 forum members to the NT-style system of management(or anything other than WASCC monopoly)...I just can't get my head around your thinking or how you can't see that their monopoly is detrimental to motorsport and track access.
    If the bikes were given a more equal share of access to the track they would represent a much higher proportion of users...so really one needs to look at the number of participants on the equal number of days, at similar times of the year to compare car and bike participation.
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    So Tim the PM are you going to change your view on the WASCC after 300 days is up of no physical work being done on the track to get bikes back.

    You do remember agreeing to this don't you?
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    WASCC
    "At its last meeting, Committee resolved that WASCC would agree to take part in a jointly funded study with the City of Wanneroo and the Department of Sport and Recreation to develop a Master Plan"

    I wonder if that meeting went something like this ...

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