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Thread: WASCC plan for bikes at barbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    When this all comes together I hope yourself and Tim will finally wake up to the fact your WASCC overlords have been a huge impediment to anyone bar themselves improving Motorsport for the greater good in this state for a long time.
    So the car club, taking on bush land, developing it, maintaining and letting us use it is an impediment for the greater good?

    I believe if they didn't build the track when they did, we still woukd not have anything better than Collie. Successive governmentd have put so little into
    our motorsport. Take away Kwinana and all that has happened is a concrere pit building constructed so as to bring the V8s back to WA.

    76 T
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    I can hardly see how we would be a threat, we 140 members MCRCWA vs car club of around 1600 members.

    Personally, I would love see another track but South of the river. Who ever builds it (i.e. puts in the money) can run it (or appoint someone to do so).

    You got to realise that the car club looks after its members first because they have to. To pour cold water on them because sone with 2 wheels expect them to make changes with little or no referral to their membership is poor governance. To do so would devalue or diminish the rights and benefits of their membership.

    76 T
    Maybe you should buy a race car
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich... View Post
    But club members still pay membership and for track hire too...

    So like he said, you can only run the track for x hours...

    If you can fill all those hours with cars then why worry about bikes or spend money on their requirements?
    You're right, of course.

    If the members want to pay their $80 or whatever for a drift session, for example, and not waste their time with taking advantage of a potential market. That's fine. They can also keep their wonderful facilities that look no better than wheatbelt sheds. and their narrow track. That's fine too.

    But they didn't get their original land grant for a peppercorn in perpetuity without conditions. That urban sprawl just keeps on coming and some people think the club and their members are entitled to extending their track on more public land so they can keep it going the way they have? lol.
    Last edited by AZAZL; 06-05-2017 at 10:09 AM. Reason: typo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich... View Post
    What has always confused me is why isn't a track planned for the Kwinana complex?

    Already has drags and speedway, it's built on land that no houses will ever be built near, has better access than Barbs and many other advantages...
    I'm not sure what's happening with the EOI's to Venues West for a new operator or if there are constraints on the adjoining land that would stop a track. Hoping there is a submission that includes a future for increased development and participation at Kwinana.

    In the meantime, whoever is going to let me on the Collie track, is going to get my money. So now, that's Champions for a bargain $150 on 27 May and MCRCWA whenever I can book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 76 Trident View Post
    Yes, I had read that and questioned it just after the release of the Hall Report.

    May I suggest rather than rely on the preamble in Hall, that you contact the officer in DSR and ask directly, as I did. Just ask for the motorsport consultant (sorry cannot remember his name).

    I was informed by DSR that other than the infield pit and related works to kerp the V8 Supercars coming back there was a matching part contribution to a joint funded (DSR, car club and I think the CoW) for track resurfacing in around 2004.

    I had noted in another thread or possibly this one, another PSB member had uncovered the same/similar funding detail.

    My original enquiry on the amount of government money was under the mistaken belief that all this government money had gone into Barbs and therefore we all should enjoy the benefits and have a greater say in any future direction. Obviously my assumption was incrrect, no doubt as was the assumption in Hall's preamble (maybe every other circuit he visits receives substantial government funding?).

    I hope this helps.

    76 T
    Point being that without "welfare" from the government over the years, WASCC would not have been able to maintain the track to suitable standards even for cars.

    It's a known fact that MA/MWA and MCRCWA have been raising safety concerns about the track for over a decade yet the WASCC has done nothing to address these issues, even when they had the funds to do so.

    You keep blaming MA/MWA for not doing enough to get bikes back on the track yet the whole reason why we are in this predicament in the first place is because the WASCC has failed to maintain the track to a suitable standard for motorbike activities.

    It's this reason why I strongly believe we need a peak body for Motorsport in WA who represents the needs of everyone regardless if they are a minority or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydey View Post
    Point being that without "welfare" from the government over the years, WASCC would not have been able to maintain the track to suitable standards even for cars.

    It's a known fact that MA/MWA and MCRCWA have been raising safety concerns about the track for over a decade yet the WASCC has done nothing to address these issues, even when they had the funds to do so.

    You keep blaming MA/MWA for not doing enough to get bikes back on the track yet the whole reason why we are in this predicament in the first place is because the WASCC has failed to maintain the track to a suitable standard for motorbike activities.

    It's this reason why I strongly believe we need a peak body for Motorsport in WA who represents the needs of everyone regardless if they are a minority or not.
    I'll bite.

    I'm sure they could have maintained it, it just would have been more expensive for users (bikes and cars) or at a slower pace.

    Yes MA/MWA raised "concerns" but for some reason still licensed the track. Mustn't have been very serious then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    I'll bite.

    I'm sure they could have maintained it, it just would have been more expensive for users (bikes and cars) or at a slower pace.

    Yes MA/MWA raised "concerns" but for some reason still licensed the track. Mustn't have been very serious then.
    Or realised it was a loosing battle and got sick to death of bashing their head against a brick wall so held their breath, crossed their fingers and hoped nothing would happen so they didn't end up where we are now with nowhere to play and them copping the blame for failing to issue a licence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post

    Yes MA/MWA raised "concerns" but for some reason still licensed the track. Mustn't have been very serious then.
    This is the thing. WASCC aren't going to do anything, without someone who knows what bikes require submitting an official, actual work request (at the very least - and if I was running WASCC i'd make them contribute funding to the works as well. However I've even seen mention that WASCC are willing to carry them out - they just want to know what is required - OFFICIALLY).

    From what I have seen (and admittedly, there seems to be a whole load of secret squirrel business "why weren't you at the meeting" bullshit going on - WTF guys, this is the 21st century, there are many interested parties, and people have jobs) no one has done this yet.

    WASCC run cars. They know nothing about bikes. They are a car club, funded by members with cars. Expecting them to just magically fix the track for bikes, when the people running bikes in this country/state can't even be fucked putting through an official request for works to be done (and ideally, even some sort of plan for how it could be funded either directly or projections on bike circuit rental fees, etc.) is just living in fantasy land. Not only do we have the bike guys not putting in a request, we have them claiming the status quo is just fine. Why WOULD WASCC take action in that circumstance? Their members would rake them over the coals for it. Especially if - even worse - WASCC make modifications that are then deemed inadequate by those running motorcycles. A total waste of track closure time and funding.

    This isn't WASCC being anti-bike or having an agenda. This is WASCC serving their members (and making sure they aren't pissing money up the wall), as is to be expected.

    Fuck, if i was a WASCC member and knew they were throwing my membership fees at bike racing, I'd be pissed. As it is, if they are willing to undertake works if someone qualified actually tells them what to do, i'd consider that MORE than reasonable.


    edit:
    There are suggestions in the Hall report sure. However there are multiple options and the decision on which is appropriate based on available funding, rider preferences, etc. is not listed. And the Hall report was not the only study done - so why would WASCC commit to anything in that when MA/MWA (i never remember who's done what) wanted a second opinion.
    Last edited by thro; 06-05-2017 at 02:18 PM.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa
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    thro wascc have been given these type of reports for years I have read at least 30 of them mentioning every thing that is in the Hall report .


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    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    thro wascc have been given these type of reports for years I have read at least 30 of them mentioning every thing that n the Hall report .



    Sure.

    And has anyone who runs the bikes actually said which way they want these risks to be mitigated?

    Air fence? Bitumen run off? Relocating walls? Which ones do they think should be done first? (just as an example of a few decisions that are to be made)

    A report identifies risks and offers potential solutions.

    It is NOT a decision on what is to be done, when and which apsects of said report are necessarily a priority.

    That is not WASCCs call to make, and until someone responsible for the bikes (i.e., MA/MWA?) identifies what they want done, WASCC probably aren't going to do shit.


    You can't just hand over a report with multiple mitigation strategies and expect WASCC to act on it. Especially when MA/MWA have decided to license the track anyway. On their head be it.

    The decisions above are the sort of shit that MA/MWA need to be involved in and lobbying for.

    e.g.:
    "We want you to move turn 3 wall back 25 metres - we expect this to be good for X years based on projections on motorcycle development."
    (not an actual request, just an example of the level of detail at a minimum WASCC would probably require, probably with actual track survey/plan, etc.)

    This is surely the type of shit MA/MWA are supposed to be doing as representatives of the motorcycling community??

    Not "here's a report that identifies a bunch of risks with a bunch of different solutions" with no further input - and signing off on the track anyway.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa
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    Quote Originally Posted by thro View Post
    This is the thing. etc etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by thro View Post
    This is the thing. WASCC aren't going to do anything,... words, lots of them ....
    The thing is MWA have been saying for many years in their track reports/inspections that the track needs modifications.
    MWA made it clear that if any bike made it to any stationary unmovable object photos must be taken before recovery was to commence. This was then noted in an official incident report.
    The problem MWA had/have is they don't have the authority to force the changes to be made, all they can do is say 'Sorry not gunna play in your sandpit anymore'
    They could or maybe should have done that a long time ago, but I guess that they foresaw the backlash they would get.
    They were probably right in their thinking judging by the number of people who Just Wanted Their Track Back.
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    Yet they still issued a license. How irresponsible.
    In sterquiliniis invenitur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thro View Post
    This is the thing.
    If MA has thrown their hat in with the new project and has considerably more details of its timeline and likely success than you or I why would they choose to deal with WASCC in any way in the short term only to be hit with "You wanted us to make these changes and now bikes choose to run elsewhere".

    I suspect WASCC would be sending a rather large bill their way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    If MA has thrown their hat in with the new project and has considerably more details of its timeline and likely success than you or I why would they choose to deal with WASCC in any way in the short term only to be hit with "You wanted us to make these changes and now bikes choose to run elsewhere".

    I suspect WASCC would be sending a rather large bill their way.


    OK.

    Does anyone from MA or MWA or on the inside have the ability to confirm that ANY actual request has been made for specific changes to the circuit to rectify any of these risks?

    Not just "this bit is dangerous" - but specific requirements for changes to be made.
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    Yet they still issued a license. How irresponsible.
    Very considering riders have died

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    Quote Originally Posted by thro View Post
    OK.

    Does anyone from MA or MWA or on the inside have the ability to confirm that ANY actual request has been made for specific changes to the circuit to rectify any of these risks?

    Not just "this bit is dangerous" - but specific requirements for changes to be made?
    Again. Why would they if their intention is not to ever deal with WASCC again and are waiting for the new project to go ahead?
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    Do you race?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    Yet they still issued a license. How irresponsible.
    Do you race?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corona 221 View Post
    Again. Why would they if their intention is not to ever deal with WASCC again and are waiting for the new project to go ahead?
    I'm referring to at any point within the past decade.

    You can't complain that WASCC haven't done shit and don't care about bike safety when the motorcycle licensing body has:

    - signed off on the track as compliant
    - NOT made any request for changes


    If actual requests have been made, i've heard nothing. Perhaps the situation is different and WASCC really don't give a fuck, but i'm yet to see any evidence of requests having been made.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedTrip View Post
    Do you race?


    Lol. When it all gets too hard to defend the situation, that seems to be the default response. As i mentioned above, the defense of the status quo, shitting on any sort of attempt to make progress.

    So i'll ask you specifically:

    Do YOU just want shit facilities?
    “Crashing is shit for you, shit for the bike, shit for the mechanics and shit for the set-up,” Checa told me a while back. “It’s a signal that you are heading in the wrong direction. You want to win but crashing is the opposite. It’s like being in France when you want to go to England and when you crash you go to Spain. That way you’ll never get to England!” -- Carlos Checa
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    WASCC plan for bikes at barbs

    Quote Originally Posted by thro View Post
    I'm referring to at any point within the past decade.

    You can't complain that WASCC haven't done shit and don't care about bike safety when the motorcycle licensing body has:

    - signed off on the track as compliant
    - NOT made any request for changes
    Pretty sure risk assessment such as the one keys posted should be a reasonable enough notification that things are NOT compliant.

    Yes MA/MWA were stupid to continue issuing licenses as long as they did.

    Don't tell me as supposedly experienced circuit operator that the WASCC managers can't read the MA guidelines and tell you exactly what they should have in place. They are NOT that stupid.
    The Bend

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