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Thread: 1965 Triumph Chopper

  1. #41
    Member BusaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Skitzo View Post
    So after some quick calculations I repositioned the bike and placed in on the same angle as it would sit if I had a 19" front wheel and 16" rear wheel with the tyres I plan I using.

    As you can see the front of the frame is now pointing upwards, in that real 1970's Chopper reach for the sky doing a wheelie while sitting still look. What this effectively does is increase the rake of the neck and pushes the front axle a lot further out. How far? Sitting like this the horizontal distance between the neck and front axle now becomes 585mm, which is 35mm longer than what is legal any where in Australia.




    So the first major challenge with this bike is to solve this problem and get that front axle back within that 550mm limit. There are some options here and the first thing we'll investigate is using a much shorter coil over shock absorber in the front end, so lower the front end and try and get the girder parallel links to sit about perpendicular to the angle of the neck, like the example shown below.

    This would lower the front of the bike and hence reduce the rake at the same time, and pull the front axle back a bit. Would it be far enough? I don't yet know and when I have a little more time I'll play around with that idea and take some more measurements.

    If that doesn't work the next option I will look into is chopping the frame and stretching the position of the neck upwards about 6 inches or so. That is a huge undertaking and will require Engineering and Transport Department approvals before going there, but I won't rule it out.

    Wouldnt the vertical distance remain the same since it is taken from two fixed points no matter the angle?
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  2. #42
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaSteve View Post
    Wouldnt the vertical distance remain the same since it is taken from two fixed points no matter the angle?
    They're worried about the horizontal distance between the neck and the axle, not the vertical. I can increase the height between the two as there is no direct limit on that (except there is a limit for handlebar height above the seat).

  3. #43
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    In your pic it shows they obtain the measurement from an imaginary verticle line through the centre line of the axle to another that is throught the centre line of the steering stem. This distance would not change if the angle is higher as in your setup with the jack and whatever that is under the rigid tail.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Skitzo View Post
    Not sure if it will pass rego not having a refractor type lens.
    There will also be a specification for minimum height off the ground (I'm assuming). It would be worth checking that one before committing to mounting, welding, etc.
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  5. #45
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phildo View Post
    There will also be a specification for minimum height off the ground (I'm assuming). It would be worth checking that one before committing to mounting, welding, etc.
    That one we'll pass easily as I intend to stretch the frame upwards about 4-6 inches ;-)

    Just had a thought about the lens of the headlight having no refractor in the glass, this could be an easy fix by just having a new headlight lens made cast out of plastic and have refractor shapes cast into it at that point. I had a set of rare Mercury tail light lenses made up for me by Classic Plastic in Queensland by taking a mould off one I had, and didn't cost that much either. http://www.classicplastic.com.au/

  6. #46
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaSteve View Post
    In your pic it shows they obtain the measurement from an imaginary verticle line through the centre line of the axle to another that is throught the centre line of the steering stem. This distance would not change if the angle is higher as in your setup with the jack and whatever that is under the rigid tail.
    Actually it does.

    If you look at the first picture here where I have everything sitting with the bottom frame rails parallel to the ground


    Then compare that to the second picture where I have set everything up with the front and rear axles at about the same height from the ground, but this now causes the front of the frame to kick up and increases the effective angle of rake in the neck, and therefore pushes the front axle further away (in a horizontal plane) to the vertical line dropped from the centre of the neck.


    What I need to do is end up with the front and rear axles at about the same height from the ground (as in picture #2 ), but also have the bottom frame rails close to parallel with the ground (as in picture #1 ), which we'll achieve by stretching the length of frame front down tube upwards by 4-6 inches. I need to try and retain as close to possible the original rake of the frame neck in order to pull the front axle position back into legal limits.
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  7. #47
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    Right now I get it because the rake angle increses the distance grows...I even measured it on my computer screen...grew fro 60mm to 70mm. IMO the second pic is better I know they have to have set limits but why they are so conservative is so boring.
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  8. #48
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Ok well I've been lucky enough to have a few hard to find parts arrive in the mail at last.

    This first one won't seem exciting but I now have the globe needed to convert my headlight from a 6V single filament "spotlight", into a 12V dual filament "hi/lo" headlight. All that was required was a change to this very very hard to find H3 12V25/55W globe.

    So how hard was that to find? No auto part retailer in WA has any record of H3 globes with dual filaments, never heard of them and cannot get them, they basically don't exist. I also approached 2 or 3 globe manufacturers (like Narva), who all told me the don't make them, never have and never heard of them.

    In the end I found a RV parts shop in the US, who was able to send me one. Apparently they are used for spotlights on RVs... Now hopefully helping to make a headlight on a Chopper more legal.


  9. #49
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    The other HUGE piece of the puzzle to arrive and really what has been holding up all progress, was the back wheel I found for sale in Texas. I had it sent by sea to save on freight, but the trade off of the $50 freight charge was waiting 5 months for it to arrive.

    It's an original spool hub Triumph rear wheel with drum brake, and already laced to a 16" Harley rim (which I was going to do anyway). The hub looks to be in excellent condition, the spokes look perfect, and the drum brake has been skimmed and has new pads and the sprocket looks great also. Also included was a rear axle, axle adjusters and all the spacers the previous owner used to run it in his bike, so really happy with the deal!

    The only issue is the rim itself it a bit crusty and chrome is flaking off it, so I'll take it to Spoked Wheel Services and get a new outer rim put on it, and check to make sure it has the correct offset to allow the chain to clear the big 130mm tyre. In these cases the rim is offset spoked to the right side of the bike a bit to gain the clearance needed (same on my previous Triumph Chopper).

    The only other small issue I have right now is the rear axle just doesn't quite fit into the axle plates in the new hardtail rear end I have. It needs to be opened up about 0.25mm or so. I could Dremel it out, or even open it up with a flap disk on my angle grinder probably, but I'm not overly comfortable with such crude measures on an area of the bike that needs to be precise so will have to find an Engineering shop who can do it on their milling machine perhaps. Anyone got any recommendations?



    And here's the sweet honey and the reason I held out for one of these wheels: with the drum brake and sprocket located on the left side, plus the tiny hub, on the right side of the wheel you get this uninterrupted view of this whole open wheel and can see the spokes run from rim to hub, which is a nice clean simple look.

    Last edited by El Skitzo; 26-06-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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  10. #50
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    You don't you machine the axle 0.5mm on each side for a width of the axle plates plus 2mm where it locates into the axle plates

  11. #51
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    Is spoked wheels services that mob in Midvale?...had a couple of BSA rims chromed then relaced with stainless spokes by them...excellent service...not many wheel wrights around these days.
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  12. #52
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaSteve View Post
    Is spoked wheels services that mob in Midvale?...had a couple of BSA rims chromed then relaced with stainless spokes by them...excellent service...not many wheel wrights around these days.
    Yes it is, I'll be dropping on there on Wednesday

  13. #53
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    If you lengthened the top mount for the shock and the top arms, wouldn't that get you the angle and distance you're after??
    By doing that then you wont have to touch or modify the frame....
    "Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for ..."

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    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roomandu View Post
    If you lengthened the top mount for the shock and the top arms, wouldn't that get you the angle and distance you're after??
    By doing that then you wont have to touch or modify the frame....
    Possibly, but not nearly enough. This front end is somewhere around 4-6 inches longer than a stock item, so there's no getting around needing to stretch this frame to fit and fit within legal measurements.

    Spoked Wheel Services now has the back wheel and is working on it, and Sideshow Cycles has the hardtail and working on making the rear axle fit properly.

    Hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll be ready to start putting a rolling chassis together. Once that's happened the path ahead will become much clearer and we can nail down our options.
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  15. #55
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    A big thank you to John Riddell who's massaged the hardtail to now take the rear axle. Hopefully the rear wheel will be ready soon too.


  16. #56
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Just picked up the rear wheel from Spoked Wheel Services, who replaced the outer rim with a brand new 16x3" Harley rim, new spoke nipples (as the old ones were effected by rust from the old rim), the rim has been offset spoked so the chain can clear the wider 130mm tyre, new tube and my tyre fitted.

    I can't wait to get this beauty home, so I can mount it on the axle in the hardtail and check all the clearances to the frame are still good.


  17. #57
    Member BusaSteve's Avatar
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    Those guys do a great job hey?
    Smoke me a kipper...I'll be home in time for breakfast

  18. #58
    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaSteve View Post
    Those guys do a great job hey?
    Sensational job!

    It's so great seeing it sitting in the frame after waiting so long. Obviously it needs spacers made up to position it correctly, but moving onto a rolling chassis is the next exciting big step.




  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Skitzo View Post
    A big thank you to John Riddell who's massaged the hardtail to now take the rear axle. Hopefully the rear wheel will be ready soon too.

    What sort of steel do you you use for the yokes (terminology??) that have been welded in to the rear frame? I would have thought standard mild steel would be too soft, are the slot faces hardened or anything like that??
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    Member El Skitzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeman View Post
    What sort of steel do you you use for the yokes (terminology??) that have been welded in to the rear frame? I would have thought standard mild steel would be too soft, are the slot faces hardened or anything like that??
    Apparently they are 5/16" thick 1018 mild steel, which seems to be industry standard for aftermarket hardtails
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