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Thread: What does the future hold for bike racing at Barbagallo?

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboR1 View Post
    Because safety and the perception of safety is driven by opinion and not fact, and often a largely vary varying level of perception.

    This lead me once to have a wonderful argument with a company's "safety rep" where he put in place guidelines for a dreamt up scenario, which would require several laws of physics to have been broken to occur. He was the same "safety rep" that demanded you wear gloves and have your sleeves rolled down while using rotating equipment, yet saw no problem with people still wearing their wedding rings on the same equipment.

    The same "safety rep" also believed that the more PPE you wear, the more likely you will be aware of the hazard you are facing. Which tends to be the complete opposite of what will occur as people will take it for granted the hazard has been mitigated, and take greater risk and less care.

    Much like what will happen here, people are so focused on this wall issue, (specifically at T3 which has never claimed the life of anyone), that when it is finally addressed, human nature will dictate that people will push harder through it. Perceived hazard is reduced, level of risk one takes is increased, net result, zero.

    I really wish people will stop using the word "safe", especially when talking motorcycles, and even more so when racing or when performance testing. There is no safe, there never was, there never will be, it is a fantasy. Safe is not a thing that will ever exist while there is still a human element.

    The Isle of Man is incredibly safe... provided you don't crash on it at speed in some places.
    Well said. Concur.
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  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Serious question: exactly how does a track day rider make themselves aware of the dangers at Barbagallo? Is there a sighting lap before they sign up? A track walk? Is there a detailed briefing? Are they handed the runoff calculations? I mean you can't even see the basin or possibly know the length of the main straight and therefore entry speed into T7...so how can they possibly be aware?

    I mean, do they rock up to the track for the first time, peer over the pit wall and say to themselves "Hmmmm, looks like I'm going to be doing 140kph through T3, there's approximately 50m of runoff, so if there's an issue given the coefficient of friction of dry grass and application of the brakes for 0.5s I'll be doing 95kph +/- 5kph when I hit the wall....yeah...nah, I'll give it a miss"

    People weren't to know just how woeful the track is until they saw diagrams like that below, with a potential runoff vectored, interrupted by a wall only 1/3 of the way along it.

    Sorry mate, be you an experienced racer or a complete newbie, you had absolutely no idea what you were signing up for.

    And to bring Barbs into a little comparison...
    Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo View Post
    SAFER is better isn't it? If there was a wall as close as turn 7 in this crash, Stauffer and Curtin would probably not have continued their great racing run. Far better to make crashing safer so riders can push their limits.
    My entry to PI t1 was somewhere around top of 4th gear or highish in 5th, so guessing maybe a touch over 200ish after a max of 290 indicated? My entry to t7 is second gear, maybe 120ish after a max of 230. Stopping distance at speed isnt linear due to reaction being equal, but distance over time is much greater. Now i am no mathmajician, but if somebody can do the stopping distances based on equal decelleration we would be having a valid conversation. Its like comparing t2-3 @ barbs to exit of hayshed at 180+.
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  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortSteve View Post
    My entry to PI t1 was somewhere around top of 4th gear or highish in 5th, so guessing maybe a touch over 200ish after a max of 290 indicated? My entry to t7 is second gear, maybe 120ish after a max of 230. Stopping distance at speed isnt linear due to reaction being equal, but distance over time is much greater. Now i am no mathmajician, but if somebody can do the stopping distances based on equal decelleration we would be having a valid conversation. Its like comparing t2-3 @ barbs to exit of hayshed at 180+.
    I am no expert either... see the Halls report for more professional data on that
    Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"
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  5. #365
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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortSteve View Post
    Please don't get me wrong, the best solution is a new international grade circuit. But this isn't going to happen in the short term, so what can riders, businesses and others who rely on motorcycling as a sport hope for?

    So you really only see two options? A new international standard circuit...or Barb's as is? Why the blindspot with altering the track to reduce the possibility of an "extreme outcome" as defined by qualified assessors?

    No track equals no riding.

    But there is a track...the only problem is people don't want to "fix" it. One approach would be to concentrate on effective upgrades. Another would be to ignore the problems. Looks like the latter is stronger than the former.

    A track, that some deem sub standard (how can 2 consultants get differing risk factors for the same corners, and third opinions from those used to get the data for the information), but others are happy to ride should be allowed to operate, and clearly someone has done THEIR due diligence and deemed any risk factors to be either manageable or insignificant.

    The reports basically corroborated each other, if they didn't we wouldn't be here. Due diligence to run events? Or simply taking a calculated gamble that nothing will go wrong? Have your assets in trust, fold the business if the shit hits the fan, walk away Scott-free if the worst happens, it's a no-brainer business model especially with sole rights.

    All I am saying is I want the choice, the track 2 years ago WAS deemed safe one meeting, then not the next (but the track didn't change). If someone else can deem it safe for operation, why the negativity towards it?

    Times change, standards change. The speed limits in residential areas used to be 60kph, now it's 50kph. NT used to have unlimited speed zones, now it's 130kph. DUI used to be blowing over 80, now it's 50. My Electrical Wiring Rules get updated every few years etc etc. The only constant in life is change.

    Why the negativity? Because businesses are driven by profit, it is a money making enterprise with no need to put rider safety anywhere on their priorities. Oh, and the fact racing is now an even more remote possibility at Barb's because half a dozen meetings/year won't be missed.

    If you feel passionately about the track being sub standard, don't go.

    Whether I go or not has nothing to do with the discussion, I just feel passionately about an opportunity being missed. Not just missed but actively opposed. How can people be against an improved facility? Best case scenario we have a better track, worst case it stays the same....but to actively undermine efforts to improve it? WA really is a Twilight Zone.

    But don't force your views on others that do.

    Forced? Last time I looked there was no "Clockwork Orange" activity, simply expressing my hopes for an improved facility.

    As for the great road races of times gone by, fuck yeah I would still support a Bathurst bike event, Nurburgring, IOM, North West 200 (which, if another year of poor weather and lower crowd numbers like IOM occurs, will be gone forever) or any other. Bikes are dangerous when ridden at speed, we all know that. Every track has risks, pit walls adjacent to every front straight could be lethal in a Simoncelli (or Jack Millar at Spa) type crash, but closing them all down (they all have walls closer than t2-3 at barbs) would achieve zero for the sport. As I said, all for a new better facility, but I don't want to lose what we have, especially if their isn't another option currently. The land layout and topography at barbs is a limiting factor, especially if cost/successful outcome. It is not financially or geographically feasible and anyone hedging bets on that happening is delusional.
    So, I put to you, what solution do YOU have?
    I've already offered information on how Levels and Ruapuna race tracks in New Zealand addressed very similar issues. What are you doing apart from hoping nothing happens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    I've already offered information on how Levels and Ruapuna race tracks in New Zealand addressed very similar issues. What are you doing apart from hoping nothing happens?
    Besides putting the air fence idea forward and being realistic about possible outcomes, clearly nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    I've already offered information on how Levels and Ruapuna race tracks in New Zealand addressed very similar issues. What are you doing apart from hoping nothing happens?
    When was the last time you spoke to the wascc? Have you been to the track recently? Are you aware of what works have been undertaken and what is in the pipeline? If the answer is no to any of the above then maybe pick up the phone and call the wascc
    Last edited by antonn; 31-07-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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    With Collie open now and a possibility that Barbs will be... whatever conditions are imposed... isn't it about time everyone stopped getting so angry about talking about this? You need to ride on the track together so dump the hate and agree to disagree.
    Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: "Wahoo!! What a ride!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo View Post
    see the Halls report for more professional data on that
    That is by far the funniest thing on the internet at the moment.
    Trying to think of a wise and sincere signature quote, but the only words that leap to mind are, "TITTY SPRINKLES"
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonn View Post
    When was the last time you spoke to the wascc? Have you been to the track recently? Are you aware of what works have been undertaken and what is in the pipeline? If the answer is no to any of the above then *deleted words*.
    Unneccessary...
    Last edited by shortSteve; 31-07-2018 at 08:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortSteve View Post
    Unneccessary...
    Yeah frustration took over, I have amended it

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboR1 View Post
    That is by far the funniest thing on the internet at the moment.
    Oxymoron?
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    Is Chris Hall's report on track exit speed and distance to stop on varying materials been discredited..?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAZL View Post
    However, a much better business model would be the rezoning, residential development and sale of the land as a City of Wanneroo/State Government joint venture.

    The state's proceeds going toward a new quality motorsport facility.

    Ha ha ha it's nice to dream I guess

    We all know that would never happen, they'd sell the land, take the profits and pay off some debts or buy more speed cameras and then it'd "Oh we don't quite have the funds right now, we'll wait till the next budget" and by then a different govt would be in and it'd be forgotten as it's too dangerous and not high profile enough to "waste" money on
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortSteve View Post
    Unneccessary...
    But entirely valid. His posts show that he hasn't bothered to look into what HAS been done and what HAS been proposed and knocked back, and again points the finger of blame in entirely the wrong direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the PM View Post
    But entirely valid. His posts show that he hasn't bothered to look into what HAS been done and what HAS been proposed and knocked back, and again points the finger of blame in entirely the wrong direction.
    Nup, never needs to get to that. And if your point in view thinks its ok, you need a better arguement.
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    Q&A with Queensland Raceways CEO about Track Action: http://www.adrianchambersmotorsports...ase-read-this/

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    Tim, I've offered a viable alternative that also had the support of all open wheel racers I've spoken to (albeit only 9) plus a couple of old jag racers. WASCC wouldn't even entertain the idea, even though it still allowed for hill viewing for their days and a moved fenceline for bike days. Costs were low (i.e. 30-40k of material), labour and equipment hire reasonable ~70k, especially when you consider that people have made offers of free labour and equipment use. WASCC have been focussed on arguing rather than just fixing the bloody issue in one of many ways.

    Excited to be back, sad that nothing of note has happened in the time we've been gone.
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    I'm surprised the government is still giving the car club any grants. The reason they got the grants through smarter than smoking and the heart foundation was to cater for all forms of tarmac based motorsport. Somebody even dug out the constitution of the club, where it had to be added.

    So if DSR or whatever they are called now, has an ounce of credibility, they should pull all the funding and demand the monies paid over the last two years to be paid back...
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