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Thread: Corruption in heavy vehicle licencing

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    Member wheel_of_steell's Avatar
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    Corruption in heavy vehicle licencing

    Privatising the HC and MC heavy vehicle licence assessments was a huge mistake. Introducing certificate-based training for heavy vehicle competency and also driving instructors was another huge mistake. It royally backfired for the DoT and has resulted in many palms being greased and people who should not be on the road; in charge of heavy vehicles. This is why the bayswater bridge gets regularly pummeled by trucks.

    Anyway, here's a corruption and crime commission report on the practices of one of the companies involved. What do you think?
    https://www.ccc.wa.gov.au/sites/defa...plications.pdf

    His explanation is that the business grew organically so that he had no time to carry out PDAs. In order to feed demand, he trusted his instructors to conduct assessments. The Commission does not accept that the success of Mines West took Mr Narayanan by surprise. The clientele precisely reflected his business aims and marketing strategies. The marketing strategy targeted potential clients from a specific ethnic group, Indians, particularly those from the Punjab.

    ...678 licence holders have had their licences suspended in part or in full, 370 fresh PDAs have been conducted and 201 applicants have failed. A further 20 cancelled or failed to attend. Over the course of the PDA reviews, the failure rate of Mines West licence holders has been over 50%. The review is ongoing.

    ...Most applicants under review did not even try to obtain a truck driver's licence, 80% sought only a C class licence to drive a car. Many had used Mines West as a way to avoid the scrutiny required to obtain such a licence. They had driven on an Indian overseas licence beyond the length of time permitted and avoided the hours of supervised driving required by C class learners.

    Just under half of the suspended licence holders (49%) were permitted to drive an Uber or taxi (an F or T class licence extension), either before or after DoT's review. This indicates the motivation to obtain a licence to drive a truck was not the obvious one. Rather, a truck licence from Mines West provided a means to obtain remuneration transporting passengers.
    Now we are getting rid of the R class assessment too? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just hand out licences directly in the wheaties boxes?
    Quote Originally Posted by devolved
    I just crashed into a schoolbus full of kiddies, killed them all, raped them, set them on fire and now I'm pissing on their charred remains.
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    Member INTJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheel_of_steell View Post
    Now we are getting rid of the R class assessment too? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just hand out licences directly in the wheaties boxes?
    For arguments sake, why not? It works with bicycles, pet ownership, bank loans and parenting... why not let people figure out life the big boy way - by actually learning life skills without some arbitrary test to 'prove' competence? It's not like someone can jump in a 10 tonne truck and fudge knowing how to drive it. Well I don't think I could... was there a massive up-tick in truck accidents with these Punjab running amok?

    Please don't apply my logic to staff in the medical profession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ View Post
    For arguments sake, why not? It works with bicycles, pet ownership, bank loans and parenting... why not let people figure out life the big boy way - by actually learning life skills without some arbitrary test to 'prove' competence? It's not like someone can jump in a 10 tonne truck and fudge knowing how to drive it. Well I don't think I could... was there a massive up-tick in truck accidents with these Punjab running amok?

    Please don't apply my logic to staff in the medical profession.
    fuck up on a bike and you fall off hurting yourself a bit.
    pets... they die.
    loans.. banks get the money one way or the other.
    fuck up in a tuck and you can squash multiple people.

    so yea bit of a difference.

    and m/cs. same as medical profession. just a case of yea i rekon i can just watch this and hold my beer.
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    little end bearing. best describes as the sound of 'A little black man with a hammer in your engine'. big end sounds like a bigger black man...

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    Member wheel_of_steell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ View Post
    For arguments sake, why not? It works with bicycles, pet ownership, bank loans and parenting... why not let people figure out life the big boy way
    Interesting question. "Why not take off all the warning labels and let the idiots sort themselves out?" Is a tempting idea.

    I think our (people's) sense of personal responsibility, ethical behaviour, and sense of community is currently lying dormant. So putting the pearls of personal freedom before the swine that is a public that is basically irresponsible, unethical, and completely lacking any sense of community is only going to backfire. It would be a massive party until someone levels your house with a road train and walks off saying "it's not my problem, nobody told me how to brake it!" So until our society has values that support it, suddenly implementing libertarian-style vehicular policies is probably not a good idea.

    On a slightly more grounded level. way less people die in north european utopias with strict licencing laws. Way more people die in the US where anybody can drive brodozers and turbo busas.


    Edit: If I'm reading this graph right, it's safer to ride a motorcycle in about half of these countries, than it is to drive in WA. If you cross reference the countries with the lowest fatality rates with their licencing programs, they're all strict and comprehensive.

    https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_...ality_rates_en
    Quote Originally Posted by devolved
    I just crashed into a schoolbus full of kiddies, killed them all, raped them, set them on fire and now I'm pissing on their charred remains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ View Post
    It's not like someone can jump in a 10 tonne truck and fudge knowing how to drive it.
    I got my C class (artic truck at the time) on a minesite in the Pilbara by driving an automatic kenworth around an empty pit, then took six attempts to reverese a single trailer to a dock. Copper handed me my license 10 mins later. The next day was thrown on the breakdown truck driving an 18sp roadranger and only then learnt how to drive, so yeah you definitely can.

    Try and drive around mirrabooka, especially near the DoT centre, you will see how the whole fucking licensing system is broken.
    Knowledge without mileage equals bullshit.

    "The feelings mutual so kindly fuck off"
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    No different to the privatisation of vehicle inspection workshops - gotta keep them profitable somehow. Magically fail first test for something, don't change a thing, magically pass the second time...
    '13 YZF-R1 // '00 RZ Supra // '72 XA Fairmont Sedan (Resto Project)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geeman View Post
    Try and drive around mirrabooka, especially near the DoT centre, you will see how the whole fucking licensing system is broken.
    QFT

    I want to share a case study from the CCC report in the first post:
    Mrs P
    In late 2013, a 25 year old woman, Mrs P from Rajasthan, India, arrived to reside permanently in Perth with her husband. She held an Indian driving licence obtained one year earlier. One of the first things Mrs P did after arriving was to buy a car, a second-hand Holden Viva. Mrs P then drove herself around Perth for the following two years on her Indian licence.
    Mrs P needed to drive her car 100 kilometres from her home to her place of work five days a week. After two years of driving her own vehicle purportedly on an Indian licence, she embarked on the process of obtaining a C class learner's permit.
    It took her a further 20 months to obtain an ordinary C class licence.
    After 18 months and eight failed attempts to pass a PDA, Mrs P was becoming frustrated. She had been unable to convince eight different driving assessors based in four different metropolitan and country locations that she had the skills to manage a vehicle and the required awareness of the road rules. General comments from the assessors' scoring sheets were that Mrs P drove over the speed limit, over-corrected her vehicle so that it went on the wrong side of the road and failed to stop at stop signs.
    From DoT Centres located from Gingin to Kelmscott, the consensus was that Mrs P was not competent to drive a car without supervision.
    Mrs P's own assessment was that she was a pretty good driver but her car was letting her down during the tests. She tried to rectify this by hiring rental cars for a PDA. When she still failed, she told the Commission that the mistakes she made during the PDAs were minor. However, one driving assessor was concerned enough to write on the score sheet that his intervention during Mrs P's test was "a crisis averted".
    One day on the way to work, Mrs P noticed Mines West in Neerabup. After some research on Facebook, Mrs P was attracted to Mines West because they offered a training/PDA package over one day and the HR class licence she would obtain would allow her to drive her Holden Viva.
    Enquiries made by her with DoT confirmed that she could swap her car learner's permit for a truck learner's permit without meeting any additional criteria.

    Mrs P managed to do this because she had illegally driven on her Indian licence in WA for two to three years. This made it appear that she had legal tenure to obtain a truck licence by having held a C class licence for more than two years.
    On 6 June 2017, Mrs P spent four hours training in a truck. The instructor recalled her inability to park the truck parallel to the curb.
    Mr Narayanan then assessed Mrs P and told her she had passed despite the scoresheet showing four misdemeanours during the PDA, including bumping the kerb while driving the truck in a straight line, failing to indicate, and difficulty accelerating smoothly. When told she had passed, Mrs P wasted no time getting her HR class licence from DoT that same day.
    Mrs P held the HR class licence for one month and drove herself to work before DoT suspended the licence and asked her to re-sit a PDA of her choosing. She chose to re-sit a C class PDA.
    She failed.
    Finally, on 22 August 2017, she successfully passed a PDA conducted 250 kilometres away from her home at the Shire of Trayning. There is not much traffic in Trayning.
    Should we let Mrs P figure things out the big boy way?
    Quote Originally Posted by devolved
    I just crashed into a schoolbus full of kiddies, killed them all, raped them, set them on fire and now I'm pissing on their charred remains.
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    Privatisation is general has lead to massive corruption deliver a product/service as cheap as possible and charge as much as you can.

    Let companies get too big and they control the market. Look to massive profits yearly, cutting/automating workforce.

    Some examples
    Power of Woolies can be seen when compared to spudshed which your giving money to the working class (middle class - farmers) one product sells for 3.00 and the same product at woolies sell for 7.50. Same goes for meat woolies pay $2 a kg but sell some cuts up to $30 a kg.
    And some times spudshed beats woolies special prices without resorting to self serve checkouts.

    When you compare tafe to private colleges, tafe deliver a better course.
    Private colleges/companies allowing you to do online courses but have multiple resits and multiple choice so everyone gets to pass.

    Nestle and water is another good one at corruption aswell as mars corporation and advance dog food.
    Last edited by Halo_2; 17-05-2018 at 07:48 AM.
    "Some people are like clouds. When they disappear it's a beautiful day"
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    Guess who was getting their HR around the time all of this shit went down.
    In sterquiliniis invenitur.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    Guess who was getting their HR around the time all of this shit went down.
    GreenMeanie ?
    Rest in Peace

    #294


    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMeanie View Post
    A note for CM's. Don't be fucking girls. You can pass anything. Just fuckin' "Nail It". Take ya panties off you faggots.

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    The training system has become a nightmare. Large companies manage to get business in through slick advertising. Cheap prices and corrupt practices. I have cancelled all my nationally recognised training courses insurances as I have chosen to walk away. As a private provider doing the right thing I can not make my courses short enough and cheap enough for the gullible public blinded by $350 certificate four courses.

    The Government regulates this but the huge companies got around this while regulators tried to crush the small providers. I have also worked at TAFE for 22 years either full or part time and would question that TAFE always delivers top class training.
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    Member GreenMeanie's Avatar
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    Have you seen how a Forklift ticket is earned?
    99% of the fuckers should fail.
    But guess what?
    No one fails.
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    G M If you fail someone at TAFE it is considered the trainers fault for not instructing them proprlerly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    As a private provider doing the right thing I can not make my courses short enough and cheap enough for the gullible public blinded by $350 certificate four courses.

    The Government regulates this but the huge companies got around this while regulators tried to crush the small providers. I have also worked at TAFE for 22 years either full or part time and would question that TAFE always delivers top class training.
    The joke they have you now do is send out a book and answer multiple choice/multiple resits then the week you do go in is for the assessment.

    Freo tafe electrical setup shat all over the CET setup and didn't have dickhead lecturers stand at the front of the class and read you the material word for word. Ask a question and they had no idea.
    "Some people are like clouds. When they disappear it's a beautiful day"

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    Member GsxInShed's Avatar
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    Geez!!!!

    I hope they train Crane Operators better than that... oh wai..
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."
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    I know of people that got a "Testing gas atmospheres" ticket by pretty much "bullying" the instructor/assessor in to hurrying up...

    Didn't even sit the assessment, just got the certificates handed to them...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GsxInShed View Post
    Geez!!!!

    I hope they train Crane Operators better than that... oh wai..
    You can purchase fake crane licenses in Bali...

    Not just a crane license, but an Open crane license...

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    I used to calibrate 'Hazardous Environment Detection Devices' Only to fail one at the worst possible time. ( after returned..)

    It's OEM all the way now. I'm more than capable of doing it.....But if I'm away ...fuknoze...
    " Imagination is the seed of life..."

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    Member GreenMeanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin View Post
    G M If you fail someone at TAFE it is considered the trainers fault for not instructing them proprlerly.
    I think we have found the problem!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Admittedly, not failing anyone doing a standard driving test has worked very well.

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    Member chew's Avatar
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    I see it as a way to keep wages down in the workforce.

    People love when stuff is cheaper but get pissed off when it is their job that is targeted.

    My industry has a three day install accreditation for people with trade skills or two weeks for anyone off the street.

    Pressure from retailers and customers bought it on.

    When shit goes wrong they want the fully trained tradespeople to fix it, then whinge about the cost.

    Humans are cunce.
    They hung a sign up in our town "If you live it up, you won't live it down"-Tom Waits

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    That would explain a lot of the shit driving around WA...
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