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Thread: Driver from the mistaken stolen trail bike death jailed on manslaughter.

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    Driver from the mistaken stolen trail bike death jailed on manslaughter.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-1...-rider/9859842

    Should've argued that he called off the pursuit before the crash.

    On a serious note, this is why giving chase might not be the best idea, your bike or not.

    Thoughts?

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    he got 7 years, pretty tuff considering the frustration you go through when the police dont consider motorcycles worth 10k plus a high priority.

    and its not really his fault the kid couldn't ride out of sight on a dark night and didn't look before smashing into a car on the road where he should not have been anyway
    "Itís not going to judge you like a fucking Volkswagen would."
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    Yeah nah, he didn't know for sure and still pursued anyway. For a 15 year old (or anyone really), being chased by a car is terrifying and has the potential to push people into making a mistake or misjudgement.

    If you are going to chase, know for sure who you are after and know that whatever the result, you will be part of it.

    The fact that he stopped to check the bike after the crash and took off when he realised it was stupid.

    Shame the people taking bikes though don't ever seem to get "7 years"
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    Not sure I really agree on this one. I don't agree with vigilante justice being dished out randomly, but you can't argue the kid was doing the right thing. I've been through the whole "looks like you're riding a dirt bike, is it stolen ? Is it registered ? Is it legal ?" on multiple interactions with cops, yet the judge partially justified the kid riding on the road at night on an unregistered dirt bike.. Our system of laws is confusing.

    I'm guessing he got 7 years because of the circumstances, ie no license and didn't stop to help.
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    Odd story to post when spurring debate on POLICE pursuits of CRIMINALS...

    Police should chase criminals until such time as the chase poses a risk to people other than those being chased. Therein lies the dilemma. Every chase poses a danger to bystanders. Maybe cunts should just stop stealing shit and get fucking jobs.

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    The only time I think chasing and serving out justice is if someone has gone violently after you or your family directly. Other than that the crims can have my posessions, I'll get it replaced through insurance and sleep well knowing their life must be a steaming pile of turd for them to behave the way they do.
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    it is like because there was a death they just ignored the fact that all bikes caught on the road that can not be licensed are taken & destroyed with the rider copping hefty aftermath also

    "Itís not going to judge you like a fucking Volkswagen would."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanoceros View Post
    I don't agree with vigilante justice being dished out randomly, but you can't argue the kid was doing the right thing.
    Kids do these things. Innocent kid riding HIS dirt bike. Take a survey of everyone on this forum who as a KID rode a dirt bike on a public road, and I think you'll find there's a majority.

    This fucking scumbag got off lightly with 7 years jail.

    Side note, not directed at Ryanoceros...

    Take the fact he was riding it illegally on the road out of it, it's irrelevant really. You're on your Street Triple. Suddenly someone chases you thinking you've stolen it. You panic and crash and die...is that fair?
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ View Post
    Odd story to post when spurring debate on POLICE pursuits of CRIMINALS...

    Police should chase criminals until such time as the chase poses a risk to people other than those being chased. Therein lies the dilemma. Every chase poses a danger to bystanders. Maybe cunts should just stop stealing shit and get fucking jobs.
    Agreed, that's the dilemma. My snark was aimed towards pursuits that should really have been called off sooner but unfortunately weren't because cowboy state.

    The pursuer with more training and should know better gets a slap on the wrist in lieu of manslaughter because 'hey you weren't the one breaking our laws'.

    Not meant to be part of the 'debate' but hey if we're going to get this circlejerk started...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xor View Post
    Agreed, that's the dilemma. My snark was aimed towards pursuits that should really have been called off sooner but unfortunately weren't because cowboy state.

    The pursuer with more training and should know better gets a slap on the wrist in lieu of manslaughter because 'hey you weren't the one breaking our laws'.

    Not meant to be part of the 'debate' but hey if we're going to get this circlejerk started...
    In this case would a 15 year old on a legally owned trail bike (although illegally on the road) have stopped for Police? No one can be sure.

    I'll stop for Police because I'm pretty confident it'll only hurt my wallet. If a stranger at night starts chasing you, there's no knowing how many mates are in his car and what their intentions are for you.

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    Definitely agree that there would be no way to know whether he would stop or not.

    edit: Beyond that, I posted this to get peoples' 2c on vigilantism given the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by boeman View Post
    The only time I think chasing and serving out justice is if someone has gone violently after you or your family directly.
    This
    Last edited by xor; 13-06-2018 at 04:54 PM.

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    This is crazy.

    You can chase an Aboriginal kid with your car, hit him and run over him and kill him... and get acquitted of manslaughter.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_Doughty

    But you chase a white kid with your car AND NOT EVEN TOUCH HIM and get sentenced to 7 years because he ran his bike in to someone else.

    Shit's fucked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ View Post
    Maybe cunts should just stop stealing shit and get fucking jobs.
    110% I worked for my shit and so should everyone else.

    But the economy is f*cked...look up crime stats during the boom it was pretty low.
    Decent wages for working your life away solves society issues.
    Its not that long ago you only needed one wage coming in to live a decent life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    This is crazy.

    You can chase an Aboriginal kid with your car, hit him and run over him and kill him... and get acquitted of manslaughter.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_Doughty

    But you chase a white kid with your car AND NOT EVEN TOUCH HIM and get sentenced to 7 years because he ran his bike in to someone else.

    Shit's fucked.
    These were both jury trials weren't they? Ever been on a jury?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
    These were both jury trials weren't they? Ever been on a jury?
    Nope. And?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    Nope. And?
    People are emotional.

    Elijahs killer had to move states because of death threats.

    Good character.



    "He said in that case, Chief Justice Wayne Martin had sentenced a man who had, like Francis, engaged in a reckless act of chasing a young man on a motorcycle believed to have been stolen.

    But Justice Fiannaca said while the cases had some similarities, there were also differences ó such as how the man chasing Elijah had stopped after the accident, and how the chase had occurred on a track, not a suburban street.

    He said in his view, the circumstances of Francis' offending were worse.

    In addition to the prison sentence, Francis was banned from holding a drivers licence for three years, with the disqualification to be served once he is released from prison.

    He will be eligible for parole in five years."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crobbo View Post
    People are emotional.

    Elijahs killer had to move states because of death threats.

    Good character.
    So a killer has to leave Kalgoorlie and go live his life somewhere nice of his choosing. And a person who chased a bike and caused an accident spends 7 years behind bars.

    Shit's still fucked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    So a killer has to leave Kalgoorlie and go live his life somewhere nice of his choosing. And a person who chased a bike and caused an accident spends 7 years behind bars.

    Shit's still fucked.
    I ninja edited, he's up for parole in 5.

    He was chasing on road vs off road and left the kid to die.

    So yeah. Small differences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    Nope. And?
    Both the juries I have served on had people on them that had difficulty differentiating between the evidence provided and their own fantasies.
    Whenever I see juries acquitting people who seem obviously guilty I remind myself of two things:
    1. I haven't seen the evidence presented to the jury
    2. Some people are morons. A jury will usually have at least one of these and a unanimous decision is required to convict.

    As an example, the first jury I was on we acquitted a woman charged with receiving stolen goods (money).
    She and her boyfriend drove a stolen car to a shop where he did a till snatch (goes into shop, grabs till, runs out with till)
    The money came from the till.
    She claimed she didn't know it was stolen.
    One of the elements of the offense that needed to be proved was that she knew the money was stolen.
    One juror would not convict her because 'it's not possible to say what someone else does or doesn't know'
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    I give zero fucks about either kid. I give zero fucks about either sentence in isolation.

    But if I'm the driver in either of those scenarios then I'm in more trouble for killing a kid by hitting him with my car and running him over.

    A judge saying that it's worse to chase a kid on a road as opposed to a dirt track is a farce. If you leave a road to continue pursuit on a dirt track you're trying way more seriously. Did the guy driving on the road infringe on any traffic rules in the process? More so than the kid on the dirt bike?

    If I see a dirt bike being ridden on the road then I assume it's stolen or ridden by someone commiting an offence - a criminal, if you will. If I see a kid riding a dirt bike on a dirt track then I'm not seeing anything wrong. Yet the judge says one is worse - the opposite one you'd expect.

    As for leaving the kid to die - I imagine the driver of the car the kid crashed in to was on hand. And the driver doing the chasing wasn't involved in the accident, so isn't it plausible that he figured he shouldn't have to stay?

    One sentence is not like the other. Which is right, I don't know. But it's not both.
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